theothertomjones

Thank you! I may have to hit PGA SS and see if the manager will let me swing a few graphite shafts in an T350 head. I’ve grown to really like the KBS Tour Lite R (95g) and how well I can control them throughout the swing. I also have 75g S and 85g S hybrid shafts and the 75g feels really good. I’ll start with 90 and see how that works out.

Im looking to order a T350 7i Head and put a KBS PGI in it. What weight should I order? I use 65s for driver and 3W, and 75s for hybrid. 80 for the irons, or is 90 too stiff?

Well for one, nice catch and duly noted!!! On the other hand 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 Ill stick to the accuracy metrics outlined in that link!

As for the physical limitations, stretching and some resistance training to start. It’s very challenging for me because mentally, I’m either in training/competition mode 100% or I’m not. It’s like a light switch, on or off, so working out as a matter of “maintenance” per se is a new for me. On the fitter topic, I had two Trackman fittings and the club builds felt wonderful. Looking back at it all, I think the red flags were fitting me for clubs you will “grow into” rather than where I was at the time. As we became closer I’d get lots of compliments on my swing and progress/development, became “one of the guys”, which it transitioned to “I know your swing so well I can just look at the flight and tell you what will and won’t work” type of thing. To be fair, the fitter and partner (coach) did build my swing from nothing. Anyway that turned into this new club/shaft/whatever is perfect for you. Then I’d get prospecting calls hey this new thing has the highest smash factor we’ve ever seen. Meanwhile I’d barely had a chance to get used to the last thing I bought. And that’s when I started to catch on, and I stopped golf for about a year or two, but would still get sales calls from him even a week after my ACL surgery). Last year I started this whole journey from scratch. I knew I wanted GI heads, landed on the T350s, bought used set on eBay, and have been gradually tuning them as well as revamping driver, 3W, and hybrids. I’m very confident in the d/w/h builds—stable and forgiving with plenty of room to accommodate improvement. Irons I think are much more complex. So here we are 😁

I’m not sure you’re following what’s been said earlier in the thread. This goes back to the part where I had a very trusted fitter for about 12+ years, who I considered a friend, who I later learned was just manipulating me for sales. Talented fitter—fitter of the year multiple times for multiple brands, but I learned the hard way salesman first, fitter second. That’s why I’m learning how to do this on my own as much as possible. I’m highly skeptical of fitters until further notice. Physical limitations: L3-5 herniation, replaced left ACL, partially torn right ACL (surgery can’t correct at the moment), slight arthritis in both hips and wrists. I spent 10 years in the military and taught/trained/competed in tae kwon do for 20+ years, bowled competitively for 30 years, plus diabetes so, yeah, my body aches. The part you quoted about launch being too high was with the old shafts (which are being reinstalled now) and before I had a launch monitor. So we will see what the AoA, spin, and height is next week.

Hahaha I agree 100%. But I wouldn’t be a GolfWRXer if I didn’t buy random stuff to try and destroy my progress at the same time 😎

Oh my swing needs work no doubt, but the motivation here is was to better understand myself as a golfer. Part of that process is doing your own fact finding for yourself. So, the goal here wasnt specifically to lower AoA—I had these reshafted before I even owned the launch monitor. I had no idea what my AoA was. I was just simply looking for a shaft that, purely based on numbers) better fit my SS, with a lower trajectory, and lower spin. From a numbers perspective I NAILED all 3 of those! 😂 But I (we) learned that I nailed them under totally not-ideal circumstances (+4 AoA). So, what are the reasons for that AoA? Well… even though sweepers tend to hit upward with longer irons (I assume most other swing types do as well) this is excessive in part due to my own physical limitations. My ball position was very forward, as in driver position forward—it’s part of some drills my teacher has me doing to improve my physical limitations among other things. Also, I wanted to use the same position as the first session in the OP to have consistent variables when comparing session data. Lastly, the profile of this rebar shaft can definitely throw off timing and affect AoA. i agree with your sentiment entirely, but it wasn’t from bad advice from any experts. I simply looked at numbers, made a decision based on shafts I used/liked in the past, and it simply isn’t the right choice for me now. I think there’s a lot of value to what I just learned, and it will help me make more informed decisions in the future. That being said, the PT friend of a friend mentioned above agreed that graphite iron shafts could very much be a viable solution for me. The Tour Lites are the “easiest” iron shafts KBS makes. A stiff flex could probably knock the height down with minimal impact on spin, and the graphites are intriguing, but I’ll worry about all that later. I think we can all agree the swing needs some improvement first 😇 Oh, and if I really want to knock this fitting journey out quickly the Titleist tour van rotates around the local golf courses here monthly. I can just pay $100 and have an answer in a few hours, but I wouldn’t learn as much. Im hoping that posting about my journey here will help other amateurs understand fitting a bit better. For me personally, I knocked an entire category or two of shafts off the list, so that’s a win.

UPDATE! Guess who has two thumbs and made a bad shaft choice? MEEEEEEEE! 😂😂😂 So yeah regardless of the numbers and description, the C-Taper Lites are simply not a good choice for me. I have no idea how I ever played C-Taper 120s. I’m starting to think I got hustled a bit in my fitting way back then. Even the CTLs feel like swinging rebar and it doesn’t match well with my current swing. For the record, demo $-Taper Lite R’s didn’t feel comfortable either. I’m thinking the Tour R or Tour Lite S is a better choice. More data to come, but back to the CTLs— Good news: - Met with a sports science PT guy who trains golfers (mutual friend of a friend). - I’m learning a LOT about myself and my swing. - Turns out I’m a sweeper these days, and have developed a narrow swing which better protects my lower back (I have an L3-5 herniation which pinches my sciatic nerve from time to time). So, often times my brain subconsciously protects my body and “ejects” out of the last 20-25% of the swing. What would be a more negative AoA is a positive AoA. - I have some exercises and drills to do now to improve. - Just dropped the clubs off to have the KBS Tour Lites put back in. Flight may be high but the shafts are 100 times more controllable than the CTLs. I’ll take control over numbers any day, and it will help a lot to sort my swing out. Bad news: - I hit some balls with my 7i when it was NOT 100 degrees outside and I STILL didn’t like the numbers 😇 - SS was 70 mph (10+ mph loss from the Tour Lites) with a BS of 88 - Launch Angle 28 deg with +4 AoA, and Smash of 1.26 - Spin rate was 4600 with an avg apex of 75 feet. - Avg carry was 112 and avg distance was 119. Dispersion wasn’t bad at all, and my miss was a pull hook left. I think a softer profile shaft like the TLs is a better fit. I think 10 mph more ball speed and some slight swing work will get me into a better 130-140 carry range. At now least I know what category of shaft in the KBS line doesn’t work for me.

I am told there is a general trend in the industry of moving back toward lighter shafts. From what I’ve been told from retailers, there was a huge trend of using thicker heavier shafts in the 90s/2000s, and now it seems to be trending the other way around. Personally I didn’t hate the KBS TLs, and graphite shafts sound kinda fun TBH!

You’re right about the session. Bit of a knee jerk reaction on my part. Not sure I want to give up on the self fitting. I’ve got time and the money to do this, and I’ve spent a lot of time around fitters who use various approaches to fitting, much like swing coaches who teach different methods of swings. I got burned by a club fitter for about 10 years who fit me really well once or twice, then did nothing but sell me the next evolution of gear and debunked 1970s methods instead of helping develop my game—it’s a trust that will never be repaired. Sure, I’ll make mistakes with my own equipment, or get frustrated with the process from time to time, but I’ll walk away knowing what’s BS and what’s not (for my own swing and performance).

i agree. And this is where we have to remind ourselves that most of these numbers were “estimated” by the Garmin instead of “measured”. Im debating whether or not I should return it because it is a $600 launch monitor.

A lack of standardized and validated curriculum is not evidence of what is or isn’t optimal flight for any particular profile of person of swing. Trackman has put some great data out there. Different people produce a range of numbers and trajectory differently. Insofar as getting used to shafts Im not sure I agree. I used to swing CTaper 120 stiffs. There’s no way I could swing them today because back then I was a well practiced super caster of the club. I hit 500-700 balls a week and was playing 2-3 rounds a week. I’ve reset/retaught my swing entirely since then. I had to get used to the TL shafts I had as does everyone else. Everyone’s body learns when to relax and contract their muscles in a golf swing, when and how to generate power, and how that power is distributed when in different profile shafts. “Natural tendencies” are learned and refined from training. People can revert to bad habits if they aren’t committed to changing them, and changes become natural (ie “muscle memory”) for a variety of reasons. This is fundamental skill development in every sport.

All totally fair points and I really enjoy your perspectives! Personally, I like a high ball flight. When I say the previous shafts were way too high, I meant 3 course pros and a part time club fitter all eyeballed it and agreed I needed to knock the height down. Not that it was a negative, but you could tell the ball flight itself wasn’t optimal. As my old fitter told me high is perfectly fine as long as you have the right spin rate. My S55s with CTaper Stiffs launch pretty darn high but it’s a penetrating high and holds greens, it wasn’t a balloon then drop like it fell off a cliff. I have dispersion numbers from my session, but I think everyone would agree the iron data is pretty worthless at the moment until I get used to the new shafts. I also need to dedicate a session to shot tracking instead of it being an end of session curiosity. I’ve been reading around on the driver and hybrid numbers and they look pretty optimal even when exhausted so I’m fairly confident I have the right shafts in those clubs. I really regret not trying Titleist sooner. Their TSR2 driver in particular is so much better than the Ping setups I’ve games in the past. Im also impressed by the hybrid, though the shape of it takes some getting used to compared to the Ping G410 I was gaming. The ball flight suits my eye so much better. I’ll work on getting the swing right with the new iron shafts, then get the launch monitor out when I’m fresh and take a look at the numbers. You guys are awesome and thanks for the help!

I totally agree. I think I jumped the gun on breaking out the R10 when im not even used to the shafts yet. I should have known there would be timing changes, and I definitely shouldn’t try to get numbers at the end of a session. Poor choices on my part all around!

So sorry to hear about the cancer but glad to hear you are doing well! My motivation for moving to a heavier shaft was to get the ball flight down. While I don’t have any data for apex of the previous shafts it was clearly too high. Aside from the TL shafts themselves being the highest launch and spin KBS makes. I wanted to take it down just a hair and the CTLs are the next step below the TLs. The R CTLs are 10g heavier than the TL R. Also, I couldn’t feel the head very well, but I did enjoy how easy the club was to control through the swing path with the TLs. Im used to cavity back heads which are usually much heavier. This hollow body GI head takes some getting used to (which I do enjoy), and the CTL is a very different feel than the TLs. I think you’re right though. I should probably give the new shafts a month or so before I go back to the TLs. I was ready to take the whole set back to put the old shafts back in yesterday. I’ll chalk that up to the heat lol!