airjammer

I told people to DM if they wanted to further the conversation. What did you expect?

Correct

Care to expand on that comment further, like an example? Far as radius in general my right arm collapses too much in transition as I increase speed.

If he didn’t, he knows now😂

Thanks for your opinion

Improve speed absolutely yes…improve accuracy not really.

That to ask questions than it is for some people to make smart-ss comments just giggles and likes as it does nothing to further any conversation.

There were never goal posts as there was never a game. Just a exchange of ideas. Just like the video. Here is the some data we have gathered, this is how we interpreted, this is how we think you should implement our findings. All opinions except for some aggregate data.

Kinda but not really. It’s morphed into a general golf instruction.

According to Dana Dalhquist it’s true. Even for myself it’s true…a couple years ago I made a speed journey and went from 160 to 178 with just a driver and gc2 launch monitor in a 6 month period. Never ever made such a gain in accuracy. Not saying it’s not possible,..I just haven’t come across the information or if I have, I haven’t dedicated myself to the process of implementing the information. It’s like lifting weights. If you stick with a program and do it long enough you will get stronger even if you don’t eat right..like people in prison. People have been swinging the same swing for years trying to hit it closer but it pretty never happens. It’s just different. Do you agree it is different and if so why?

No, I agreed with you..point well made. I just advanced the conversation to another the other part of the performance equation…dispersion. instead of playing some sort if gotcha game that I’m not playing…why not just answer the question if you have any opinion.

Popularity doesn’t always correlate to student success. I know someone personally who took lessons from them and it wasn’t a successful lesson if you judge on improvement and obviously students as just as much influence if not more than the teacher. That’s just a one off and not an overall indication of their teaching business. I’d take a lesson from them but I’m not paying what they all currently charging. I’ve taken a lesson from Mike at his house like 9 years ago when he was about the only person I could find with Swing Catalyst pressure plates. Super nice guy, very personable and the information he gave me was correct. From the medical information he shared with me that day..he won’t be able to swing they are currently teaching imo. I think that’s part of the reason they taught a more hands in front of the sternum and stays there type of swing. That’s pure speculation on my part. Here I am double chin and all😂 https://www.instagram.com/p/BCYowiTnfts/?igsh=ZTR6dmtkbWw1cHR0 I’m not saying that all of this technology isn’t a positive which I believe it is…I believe that we are stilling learning about learning and there is something we still haven’t figured to really make it a game changer for most golfers. I must not have articulated myself correctly. What I was trying to to say is if the word gets around that xyz is a good coach, people will flock to them, making scheduling lessons harder for the students, also rightly so the teacher will start to charge more since demand has grown. All negatives for the original students. Basically the gankas situation. He was charging like $150 or $200 or whatever it was an hour at one point before he got famous. Within a very short period of time he went up to $800 an hour and months long wait list. He’s seems like a solid dude because he grandfathered in his original students to their previous rates.

Yes I agree with that..he did a good job with the information he was given. The only push back I would say to the Mark Crossfield story is that gaining speed is the easiest thing to implement. That’s why there is tons of speed training devices that universally work if you put in the time and effort but not many if at all proven universally accuracy improving devices. What are your thoughts on the last part?

Care to expand on that comment as in what is interesting?

Absolutely true..it’s a discussion forum. If you aren’t allowed to give you opinions or different views or facts this instruction forum about might as well be a new YouTube video list with comments closed. On top of that it might was well say in the listing what channel sponsored the video so when someone is all screwed up by going down a rabbit hole that never fit them…they know who to go visit to fix them😂 We already have a section for posting your own swing videos so what exactly is this section for? As long as I have been here, it’s been swing theory discussion. Even though it might not come across in text…all of this is friendly conversation that ai expect push back in hopes of diving deeper into the subject matter. Otherwise, why even comment at all?

I don’t believe I moved goal posts, as the thread evolved the subject changed from this particular video to just why golf instruction hasn’t been as successful as other sports and it may be even perceived that golf instruction hasn’t been as successful. if anyone can say they understand exactly how the golf swing works and they aren’t the most sought after golf coach in the world…they are either delusional, the worst communicator, or the worst promoter of all time. Anyway, if someone wants to continue this conversation they can just DM me as I will be happy to converse.

Well go ahead don’t just tease us. State an opinion and get 🔥 by the mob😂

Oh god no…I’ve taken several in person and online lessons over the years. My goal is to get better like everyone else. That video didn’t further that pursuit for anyone imo..just advertisement. I don’t have an issue with anyone..my goal would be to have open discussions about whatever subject matter is presented without some going “but they told me there was data” even without presenting said data. Not only that but people willing to go along with unseen data and act like you shot their momma if you don’t just sing their praises like they parted the red sea. We’ve had to “major” events since I’ve been on this forum and they all went exactly the same way. You have the Jacobs 3d alpha wars in which they basically said “we have data that said x” you are either a believer or a denier. Then we had the AMG/Gankas keep your hands up debate which was basically devolved into the same thing. In the end people are still teaching what they want even though someone has data that says they should be teaching something else. Are these instructors anti data and unable to teach…nope. I’m not a flat earther…I’m a “not that long ago doctors told pre diabetics that eating carbs wasn’t harmful”, and we know know that was absolutely the worst thing someone can do and you can actually reverse some of that damage but I’m also open to the fact at some point in the future we may learn you can’t actually reverse the damage the way we previously thought. Everything is open to debate.

No it’s opinion based on my observations. I’m not stating anything as absolute fact, just my observations so others can give their opinions or stats or whatever as discussion to counter. It’s my fault, as I write very matter of factly. Do you personally know someone who has been 3d evaluated and made great strides in an area in which they haven’t been in the past? I’m certain that many people have but such stories aren’t really widespread as you would think they are. Let’s take this forum for example, how many people come here and sing praises of xyz instructor for helping them shoot lower scores. It’s almost unheard of on this forum which I believe it is the largest in the world. Why is that? It’s an interesting question with many potential answers. Are there people who don’t want others to get better so they keep their instructor secret so other players don’t go see them and get better thus rendering the original student back to their previous rank within the group. Possibly Could it be that if too many people go to their instructor because of a particular students success, the instructor will have less time for them or will charge more per hour thus making the instructor unobtainable for them. Possibly as I’ve personally seen this happen in my area. Golfers are a weird group in general. My best friend is playing his best golf of his life at 56 years old. I suggested that he get 3d analyzed so that when it goes south, he’ll have a road map to follow to hopefully find his way back. He won’t do it and he’s close to a genius who makes mega bucks in his field. Golfers are just weird individuals.

It shouldn’t get anyone riled up. Is Kevin Na’s hips at impact literally 0, no most likely not. He was used as someone who is exactly opposite of Jim Furyk to illustrate a point I was trying to make that the 2+2=4 tour player doesn’t exist. So if someone really wants to put out an informative video, they would explain with 3d data how these 2 wildly different golfers make their swing functional. Teachers don’t because they really don’t know. I’ve had a couple conversations with Brian Manzella about how close their Jacobs 3D group knows exactly how the swing works…the answer is they are close but not quite there yet. So if we have one of the premier golf research groups in the world says that they don’t quite know exactly how the golf swing works…why would it be so appalling to suggest your local pro not knowing either and he’s giving you an educated guess at best.

For a tour player yes but if the average golfer got paired up with him, after the round most people would probably be thinking “this guy wasn’t the longest person I’ve ever played with but he never missed a shot all day”.

I don’t disagree with anything you said. As I said before this thread, I believe that we have a lot to learn about learning and golfers seem to be very willing to try new things if somebody else has success with them. Some people might remember the Gabe golf trainer. That device got hot on tour very quickly after someone had success with it, of course it died very quickly too once other players didn’t receive any benefits from it. So I would say so far, that golfers in general haven’t been able to go and get 3-D assessed and see a much more dramatic increase in performance or the ability to make positive swing changes or if they have are able to make swing changes, the changes haven’t been that positive. I don’t think we know why yet but I don’t think anyone can claim that golfers just don’t like technology when there is millions of dollars to be won with just a minor improvement in a particular weakness for a tour player…I don’t believe they have seen other players on tour get enough improvement. Maybe it will be like launch monitors and once someone really has a dramatic change the floods gates will open..we shall see. It’s a fascinating topic in which we don’t have all the answers to.

I think the camera angle being off makes it look more across than it really is. If you really want it gone you can just remove some radial “wrist c0ck”. Think of Scotty or Steve Stricker. Not may or may not be a Band aid but it will work.

I agree with that and also believe that the increased purses are Incentivizing parents to put their kids in golf instruction and invest money/time in hope for return. I have a 9 year old daughter and you wouldn’t believe the amount of parents who are putting their girls in golf programs/instruction in hopes they have enough talent to get a college scholarship.

Seems like some of you forgot about the old timers and new timers like Bubba who never had a lesson. Yes you can make it without a swing coach..exceedingly rare yes but not impossible. Can anyone explain how that is possible? It’s not to discredit coaches but you just can’t teach innate athletic ability. Not everyone can run a 4.4 40 yard dash while being 6ft 200lbs. It’s not wrong for every person trying to do that and their coach when they don’t achieve it…it was never in the cards.