ScooterMcTavish

Holy heck, looks like I've been out of the ball market for some time! $73 CAD for a dozen Chromesoft? $65 CAD for a dozen AVX? Think I got a bit lazy just buying Z-Stars whenever they went BOGO, ordering 6 dozen at a time. May have to go to the store and buy sleeves if I don't want to have to sell a kidney.

First update. Despite ordering the Frontline last, it arrived yesterday, just in time for a league round last night. First impressions were good. Although I thought I'd prefer the thicker alignment line, it is a bit visually jarring, and I may lay some pinstripes or something on it to black it out a bit. Positives: - Very stable with a clearly high MOI - The sink-fit oversize pistol grip is fantastic, and helps quiet the hands. - Good shape for alignment - Insert is a nice "just right", not too soft, not too firm - Strikes feel consistently good, even if the ball is not in the centre of the face Negatives: - The putter feels a bit lightweight, so I felt I had to swing it more firmly than I am used to - The alignment "line" is a bit much Results: Total of 15 putts for 9 holes, versus the 21 I hung up last week. No 3-putts, and all but one lag putt was in "pick it up" distance. Had two putts under 8' which I felt I should have made but didn't, but I did make the third 8', likely as I saw I was missing left and adjusted my aim. Special thanks to @rsballer10 as I certainly felt more loose on the greens last night. Having a new putter with low expectations certainly helps. But I also quit obsessing about my form and staying SBST, and just let the swing flow freely while concentrating on distance. And I wasn't far off, as I left three putts of 15' and over within one inch of the cup with good weight, just slightly offline. Will also order some heavier weights, and try experimenting in making the putter heavier, and adding some toe hang. Not a bad start.

As a further follow up, I played the S ball in league tonight. Ball lasted 9 holes with minimal damage, and I’d likely play it a few extra holes before replacing it. I thought back to the many balls I’ve played over the years, and it occurred to me that this ball reminded me of the well-loved TP Red. Soft yet firm, good spin on approaches, yet incredibly straight on drives. If you loved the TP Red, this is worth a go.

Have played the S for a few consecutive rounds, and genuinely like the ball. Lots of spin on approaches, and feels nice off the irons. Also very straight (almost too straight) off the driver. Need to adjust for its lack of fade spin. Durability is still my main complaint, as 9 holes feels about the max before it gets too beat up to continue playing. But am guessing that this feel comes at the price of durability. I compared the ball previously to the original FG Tour X. But after a few more rounds, it is starting to remind me of the old TP Red. And that is a heck of a positive comparison.

I’ve bought pristine golf balls from a Canadian retailer, and loved the free customization offer. Every single one of them looked like new. But I certainly noticed some of them did not react like new balls. Last time I ordered 4 dozen B-RXS, and they were noticeably “off”. Considering how mental this game is, it’s just not worth it to me. Also considering how rarely I lose balls, I cannot justify the cost savings. YMMV based on how many balls you lose, but for me, the savings are not worth it.

Sounds like the Z-Star may be it, though the XV may also be worth a try. It’s a firm ball but not overly so. Certainly softer than the B330 X. Though maybe the Mizuno Pro X might be worth a try. Firmer ball but very soft cover.

I'm kind of the extreme in the opposite direction, and I have almost fully given up on buying used irons. Despite the jokes made about iron covers, I see people dropping $1,500 on a set of irons, then beating the holy hell out of them. In short, I have been around long enough to see how poorly people treat their stuff, and I'd like to avoid someone else's lack of care in my bag. But please also note that I can afford new clubs at this point in my life. I was much less fussy when I had a young family, so would pick up whatever I could find used on deal (games Eye2 and Zings for quite some time). So if this is a financial decision, I can only encourage you to buy what makes financial sense for you. So at this point in my life, only reason I would buy used clubs is if there is a purpose to the buy (i.e. I wanted to try out the head or shaft), and I knew I could resell them with a small loss when I was done trying them out (I refer to these as beater sets). But to me, a beater set is under $400. Where am I going with this? If you were interested in the i230 model, you could buy a used set like this to try, then try to replace with a nicer used set (or even NOS or demo set) if you love them. But I wouldn't be dropping $600 US ($822 CAD) on this set, especially when I can buy nice new sets on clearance for under $1,100 CAD ($800 US). Heck, I can buy the newest W/S CB set (4-PW) for $1,260 CAD/$912 US - would rather buy those, get an extra club, and have them be brand new for the extra $300. Just my thoughts, and I know I'm likely on the fussier end of the spectrum. But value for money is universal, and these seem way overpriced considering their condition.

Another option might be B-RXS. Although it doesn't spin quite as much as the XS, that ball certainly does launch high. Might also be a good fit if current launch is low, as an increased descent angle may compensate for a lower amount of spin. And it's not like the ball doesn't spin a decent amount (unlike the B-RX). Think asking @skibmg for their swing speed might of helped.....lol. If their SS is moderate (i.e. 95-100) then they may appreciate the higher trajectory of the B-RXS, AVX, or Tour Response. If their swing is faster (over 100) then the Z-Star may be the magic ball.

Gorgeous club. And as much as I do like the matte finish that Mizuno put on my JPX923T and the S3, there's something to be said about having nice chrome on the club, and matte in the cavity only. Always loved the look of MP-30s as well. Elegant and simple like the MP-52, but with a shorter head and softer lines. Again, none of these are exceptionally forgiving CBs, with all having most of their mass centre and behind the ball, like a blade.

Guess I'm kind of struggling with your question, as there is very little difference between new Mizuno player's CB clubs (like the JPX 923 Tour and the S-3) versus the cavity backs of yesteryear. You mentioned the MP-64 as an example, but the way the mass is placed low and in the middle of the head, and with a very shallow cavity, it looks closer to a blade/MB style than my JPX do. Comparing to the Wilson is also odd, as the latest CB is a very scary club. I looked at these in store, and they might as well be a blade due to less weight down low, and very low bounce and offset. Possibly you're speaking about the design, where the cavity itself is larger in appearance? If that is it, then certainly, aesthetic comments are very valid when comparing older and newer clubs. But in any CB, it is important to see where the weight is placed. In my JPX 923 Tour, there is a solid amount down low, and good bit at the toe which adds off-centre forgiveness. And to the S-3 looking blade-y, I'm not sure about that. Here is one of (IMHO) the nicest MP-series clubs that Mizuno made, the MP-52: And here is the S-3. What's old is new apparently:

It's really why the numbers on the bottom of the clubs have become meaningless. But to OP's question, a GI cavity with more traditional lofts simply doesn't seem to exist right now. Player's CB? Yes, but not GI.

It really is more of an AA-type thread, IMHO. "My name is Scooter, and I am a club ho'" There's those of us who really want to quit ho'ing, and feel if we hang out with people who don't ho', we'll stop. There's those of us who know we should stop ho'ing, but inside really don't want to quit, as we haven't hit "rock bottom". Although shipping clubs to the office and hiding the credit card bill could be a "high bottom", still haven't read if anyone has sold a kidney or a been evicted so they could afford the latest driver with exotic shaft. And there's those of us who enjoy the schadenfreude of watching our fellow ho's fail miserably, and who gladly watch this behaviour as it allows us to justify our own ho'ing. In a way, I think the OEMs like this thread, as each person who falls off the wagon may take another one with them.

My long time favourites were the MP-30,and my memory of them had me pick out my current irons. Unsure why OP railed on the JPX 923 Tour, as this club is pretty much the classic Mizuno player's CB, and not substantially different than the cited MP-64. Thin topline, nice sole, low but useable offset, and moderate forgiveness, especially toe-side. There is actually a bit more perimeter weighting on the JPX 923 tour than the MP-64. Also lofts were mentioned - my MP-30 had a 47º PW, and the JPX 923 Tour had a 46º PW. No jacked lofts here. Trying to understand what OP is looking for, as the JPX 923 Tour, and the newer Pro S-3 (more forgiving for heel strikers) are truly updated "classic" Mizuno player's CBs. Only difference is they have a non-chrome finish. Possibly the absence of a more forgiving CB GI option is the larger issue OP has. Unfortunately, we now live in an era of fitting bay wars and jacked lofts, so we see clubs like the JPX925 Forged with a 43º PW. This is unfortunately the time we're in, and I do not believe we'll ever return to the days of a more forgiving CB iron with traditional lofts. It's not just Mizuno - it's everyone; just look at PW lofts on all more forgiving CBs or PD irons (Ping i530, 42º; Ping i240, 45º, TM P790, 44º; WS Dynapower Forged, 44º; Cally X-Forged Max, 44º).

What I’ve found interesting in my own ball journey is that “spin” isn’t consistent from ball-to-ball depending on clubhead speed. So although the BX or Z-Star XV or ProV1x may be listed as high spinning, much of this benefit may be lost with a slower SS. Someone recommended trying the Z-Star, and it is a reliable middle of the road ball. Also saw BXS recommended, and it is a nice feeling high spinning ball. However, I did find it a bit spinny off the driver. May also want to try the Mizuno Pro S. I like the feel, very straight off driver, and it spins well - only issue is poor durability.

Yes, title says it all. Been playing the Z-Star/XV for the better part of the last decade, and although it is a very good ball, it is also a bit "meh". This was highlighted by recent play of the Mizuno Pro S, a ball which had a different feel, and launched differently with higher spin than the Z-Star does for me. This was interesting, as despite the ball being both soft and hard at the same time, it was a lot of fun to play. Durability was crap, which is why it will not become my permanent gamer, but it highlighted I maybe need to try a few more balls out. I also noticed when I went to my Mizuno irons this spring, I no longer liked the XV. It went from feeling firm to hard, and I do not like hard. Wish list: - "Tour" ball with a urethane cover - Softer feel, so no X balls - Will play white, but prefer yellow - Excellent greenside spin - Higher launching off irons - Goes on sale regularly for stock-ups So thinking it would be fun to do a "soft" tour ball shootout, and see how we do with those. To me, soft in a tour ball means around 80 compression or under, which would include the following: Callaway Chromesoft Mizuno Pro S Wilson Staff Triad (2024) Titleist AVX Z-Star (a stretch at 85 compression, but good to include a Srixon) TaylorMade Tour Response Bridgestone B-RX Bridgestone B-RXS Any other ideas? Am actually a bit impressed at how many balls are here in the "soft tour" space, not even counting balls that are harder for me to access, such as Maxfli Tour S and Vice Pro Air. Maybe get this started next week some time. Edit: Eliminated the "sale" requirement. Who am I kidding. I've lost a grand total of 1 ball in my last 108 holes, and take balls out of play due to damage. In doing my 2-piece ball test, I lost only one ball in the seven different balls tested. So really, I'm at a point where the right ball is more important than just price.

Sounds like you're a Southerner @Mungbean which is too bad, as I'd love to shoot a round with you. Absolutely love the sense of humor, which is much like my own. Kept a couple of stats here, as these ones stood out to me. #1 - Only 4 3-jacks in three rounds is not the end of the world. I look at them as "did my putter also steal me a few strokes this round"? If I have a theft for every three-jack, I can live with this. Though 2 thefts per 1 3-jack is a good way to hit par. #2 - Even hitting a bit shorter, this makes me wonder if you need to look for a new FW. One area where my game has improved this year is on Par 5s, and this is 100% due to picking up some FW that work very well for me. If you can consistently get 400-420 yards between your driver and FW, Par 5's become an non-issue. #3 - Those approach stats suggest some time with the short irons would be well spent. If you can bring down the proximity average to 10-15' (or less) you are going to have a lot more looks at birdie. Regardless, sounds like you're having fun.

I have worked diligently on having a positive AoA when driving, which has been geared around using tour balls. I also swing an LS driver. As admitted, there is the possibility that I’m not getting enough back spin on my drives to maximize the 2-piece balls. But ignoring the spin differences, the main thing I’ve noted is the drop in smash factor when using soft balls on a launch monitor. A change in even 0.04 points equates to a loss of approximately 9 yards for a 220 yard driver. This means the energy from the clubhead is not transferring as efficiently to the ball, mainly as the soft ball is absorbing a little more energy vs a firmer ball.

When I lose the ball right, it is also usually because I’m tired, not pulling the club inside, and not getting the face closed at impact. No shaft will fix that (unfortunately) unless your shaft is too light. Only solution is staying hydrated, eating some protein, and having a fitness regimen. And honestly, light coloured shirts and breathable socks make a difference.

Extra loft is the best way to combat excessive sidespin. Problem (as you highlighted) is it is a bandaid until you get the swing fixed.

I think it is important to clarify that a good setup does not mean you are trying to "swing up". Having a correct setup and selected low point for your swing means you will hit the ball with a positive AoA naturally as part of a repeatable swing motion. I also read the comment that the pros hit down. They certainly do, because they need the backspin with their very high swing speeds. For us mere mortals (like myself with a 92 MPH SS), fixing AoA is the difference between a 200-210 yd drive and a 230-240 yd drive, especially if you also adjust your driver loft for optimal launch angle. And trust me, there is no driver made that will correct too much backspin on a moderate swing speed. I've tried. Just had to fix the swing, unfortunately, which included getting a positive AoA.

You are welcome - I am always happy to live vicariously through others. When my 4W wasn't working right for me, I tried to find some options. Considering how well I got along with my driver, it only made sense to get related heads with the same shaft. And it has worked well, mainly as the shallower faces and shaft combo launch the ball in an ideal manner for me. And my 5W, it has been an absolute money club - just gets such great trajectory with a predictable shot shape versus any 3h I've played. And both are adjustable for the day or course. If you start your irons at 4i, you can go D-3W-5W-4i-PW-GW-SW-LW-P in your 14 spots, giving a very balanced bag. Just need to decide what gaps you want on your wedges, though I've found cutting out my highest lofted wedge has allowed me the option of: D-3W-5W-3U-4-PW-52º-56º-P As mentioned above, I had my 9i bent 1º weak and my PW 2º weak, so my PW is 48º, allowing me to pull a wedge. And honestly, a 5º gap between 8i, 9i, and PW is irrelevant vs a 4º gap. And can honestly state that any wedge I've ever bagged above 56º has cost me more strokes than it has saved. Again, YMMV. But as I'm getting older, I'm finding I can do anything from 110-in with the 3 wedges, so appreciate more options at the top of the bag.

Respectfully disagree. Have now had two different player's distance sets, and found them to play true to loft, regardless on the numbers on the soles. You are correct, and some brands have even gapped the 7i lower than the set's progression would suggest (see Ping i525) so that they have a "longer" 7i for the hitting bay. Unfortunately, this works far too often - I even had this experience with a fitter who tried to sell me Ping G430 based on distance, even though my spin and descent angle numbers were garbage. Irons: I saw some discussion of the Wilson Staff MB and CB above, and these are both really nice clubs. When buying my last set, I looked hard at them, but did have issues with the sole (need a little more bounce), stock shaft, and offset (need a little more offset). So I ended up going with the Mizuno JPX 923 Tour - they look like a blade (from the top) and feel like a blade, but do have players' CB forgiveness. Newer model is the Pro S-3, which is a very sexy club. As a former blade player, I appreciate the little bit of extra forgiveness. You referenced the Pro S-1, which fills me with lust when I look at it. But I actually think I like the prior model (241) a little better, as I've always preferred low massed muscle-backs. May be more attractive pricing as well. Regarding lofts, in the case of my JPX, I bent the 9i 1º weak (to 43º) and the PW 2º weak (to 48º) for gapping purposes. Driver: Here's something big golf doesn't want you to know. All modern drivers are pretty good, and it's just a matter of picking through the (generally) three options: low spin, middle of the road, max forgiveness. But in my experience, any of the three can work for any golfer if you get the right shaft. By right shaft, I mean: - Does it have the right feel you need for your swing sequence? Do you need firm handle/soft tip, soft handle/firm tip, smooth even bend, or rebar? - Do you need a heavier or lighter driver? Drivers that are too heavy or light for the golfer introduce a number of unwanted swing issues. If you can pick the right flex profile and weight, you should be able to deliver any head consistently to the ball; it then becomes a matter of head design and loft to identify the optimal spin and launch numbers. And I do steer away from TM and Callaway as often they offer a "made for" stock shaft which is a pale imitation of the true original (i.e. Ventus Blue). but YMMV, and possibly a "made for" shaft works for you. FW/Hybrids: Hybrids seem to be a love 'em or hate 'em proposition. I hate 'em. Recommend trying out 3/5/7W option before looking at hybrids due to higher forgiveness and better launch. Plus you can likely shaft match between these and your driver, something that is underrated. Wedges: Like drivers, there are a lot of good wedges out there. Only recommendation is to get ones with the maximum amount of bounce that works in your usual conditions, and have at least one heavy bounce wedge for sand. Putter: Sorry you need to retire an old friend. Unfortunately centre-shafted putters are a little thinner in this year's models. However, you did identify Mizuno, and yes, the OMOI 5 putter would likely suit your eye coming from the Rife. But I think it may be worth looking to try at least one insert putter as a contrast to the OMOI (maybe the Ping Prime Tyne C). Inserts have come a long way in the last decade, and I've become a convert after preferring milled faces for a very long time. And to all of the above YMMV.

Also the GT2 is a more forgiving head, but can be at the expense of distance. If you are already playing a low spin driver, you may find more yards hidden in the GT3. The AD-DI is a bit softer in the handle and firmer in the tip. Are you happy with your trajectory and launch right now? You can always get the same shaft in the Titleist, or even retip your existing shaft to put it in the GT3. Or, if you feel your launch and distance can be tweaked, there is a vast cornucopia of shafts currently available. Based on the AD-DI, I think you should give the Cobra DA-Adapt LS driver a look, as one of the stock shafts (Lin-Q White) has a similar feel to the AD-DI, but is put in at no-charge. I went in this direction, and am very happy with the loading feel and stable tip.

I tended to hit down with my driver - not taking divots, but hitting with a 0 to -3º AoA. Was absolutely killing me. 100% of my fix came from setup. A few things I did: - Consistent ball position in middle of left foot - Ensure your left shoulder is closed/pointing at the target - Give yourself some spine tilt at address - Move your right foot slightly back to give you room to get inside - Once set up, pick an aim point for your club that is a couple of inches behind the ball - Ensure you are not sliding your head forward during the swing. You can help this by deliberately feeling the weight shift to your right foot, and holding it until you have to shift. All of the above should help you keep a good path, and swing up at the ball. Teeing it a little higher also encourages this, though I moved my tee position back down once I had the swing dialed.

Thanks for your response. A few ideas for you: - I've been continually dropping my number of wedges in my bag. At one time I played 5 (44-48-52-56-60), then changed irons and went to 4 (46-50-54-58). I'm now down to three (48-52-56) and am happier for it. Less choices makes me use the ones I have more, which leads to more consistency. I've also tried higher and lower bounces over the last few years, and find a mid-bounce 48 and 52, and a high bounce 56 (for sand) is all I should ever need. - With these added spots, I'm putting more in the top end of the bag, and am now playing a HL 3W, a 5W, and (inbound) a utility iron. With aging, having reliable longer clubs is important, and the 5W is an absolute dynamite club. So much better launch than a hybrid, and money from 185 (long Par 4 or long Par 3). In short, find some FW you like, and play 'em. - If you have a decent iron game, don't give up on the 4, 5, and 6 irons. They are so much more flexible in keeping the ball down if you're playing in windy conditions (which I do). The 3U is an experiment, and may eventually be replaced with a 7W. But the deep CoG of FWs is so much better for my swing that hybrids. Would like to share a story with you. Know a guy that shot 9 holes last night. Had a par putt on 8/9 holes from within 8' (4 within 6') and sank 0/8. Also had an easy 6' birdie putt that they pushed. 17 putts total, with the longest second putt being no more than 6". So had a chance at par, but couldn't putt, and just wasn't quite tight enough with the short game. Finished +8. Should have finished anywhere between Par and +4. 100% of the strokes were lost around and on the green. And it is not as if he was hitting the ball bad - but rain during the day had softened the course, so approaches ended up slightly short on pretty much every hole, on a course where the greens are very small.