is your scoring average 72 or better ?

[Mikey Town]

I'm not sure where, or why, you pulled this arbitrary number of 72 from, but anyone who has a scoring average of roughly 90 or less (bogey golf) should know that clubs are way down on the list of things that can make you better.

At the top of the list would be improving your short game... followed by accuracy off the tee.

Go work with your local PGA professional. If they see a weakness in your game that can be improved by a new golf club, they will tell you.

[Graymulligan]

This thread sucks. [size=4] [/size]

[square]

This thread is not about proper technique for full swing or short game play. It's about equipment.
Usually the 80's and above scoring players are more open to trying different club head types and, or shaft flexes.
My observation is that reluctance to try different club head designs and, or shaft flexes is very common for the 72 to 77 scoring average player, and that's partly why I chose the thread title " is your scoring average 72 or better ?".


[quote name='Mikey Town' timestamp='1394580737' post='8851051']
I'm not sure where, or why, you pulled this arbitrary number of 72 from, but anyone who has a scoring average of roughly 90 or less (bogey golf) should know that clubs are way down on the list of things that can make you better.

At the top of the list would be improving your short game... followed by accuracy off the tee.

Go work with your local PGA professional. If they see a weakness in your game that can be improved by a new golf club, they will tell you.
[/quote]

[Pepperturbo]

Yep, you've concluded 'you' know better, and didn't have to say out loud, negatively stereotyped 72-77 level players. I think some of your advice has merit, but you lose merit by assuming you know what's best for all; worse yet, argue to that belief. Maybe I missed it, but haven't seen where you shared what level golfer you are... Given, I haven't seen it, may I presume you're a bogey golfer or maybe even a single digit, that quietly thinks you are better than many others.

[Mitchell]

The irony of this is palpable

[Pigems]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1394588929' post='8852137']
Yep, you've concluded 'you' know better, and didn't have to say out loud, negatively stereotyped 72-77 level players. I think some of your advice has merit, but you lose merit by assuming you know what's best for all; worse yet, argue to that belief. Maybe I missed it, but haven't seen where you shared what level golfer you are... Given, I haven't seen it, may I presume you're a bogey golfer or maybe even a single digit, that quietly thinks you are better than many others.
[/quote]


I remember him even arguing with TW one day about his club line up lol..

[square]

Nowhere in this thread have I recommended anybody play one club or another. My purpose is to suggest that players keep an open mind when choosing their club types, shaft flexes etc...rather than swinging clubs which don't produce as good a shots as that player is capable of playing.
For example , one guy I know has a bag full of muscle back irons, 2-iron through wedge, and for him what he carries in his bag is more important to him than the scores he shoots. He is one of those guys who talks in the sixties, dresses in the seventies, and shoots in the eighties. And that's fine. It's a free country . Another guy I know enjoys making up stories about what he shoots or telling people what clubs he has in his bag.. Of course standing around a pro shop blowing smoke about shots and scores, or posting about them on the internet, is not the same thing as actually doing it on a golf course. Is it ?
Anyway, this thread is not for you,. It's for player's interested in considering that different club head designs, shaft materials,, or shaft flex types might help them strike consistently better golf shots.
Since my childhood I have learned much from other players, competent golf instructors, observing better players etc... It's part of the game of golf to learn and share helpful information.

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1394588929' post='8852137']
Yep, you've concluded 'you' know better, and didn't have to say out loud, negatively stereotyped 72-77 level players. I think some of your advice has merit, but you lose merit by assuming you know what's best for all; worse yet, argue to that belief. Maybe I missed it, but haven't seen where you shared what level golfer you are... Given, I haven't seen it, may I presume you're a bogey golfer or maybe even a single digit, that quietly thinks you are better than many others.
[/quote]

[drbonesvt]

Only when I am high on crack - quickly reading through this thread, really the title should be "72 or worse" 72 or better, I think that player can game a set of fisher price clubs and whop @$$ on about 95% of golfers

IMOP, you have to play what you like to look at first and foremost; then worry about the details

[square]

[quote name='drbonesvt' timestamp='1394595465' post='8852997']
IMOP, you have to play what you like to look at first and foremost; then worry about the details
[/quote]

That is traditional thinking, yes.

But if what the player "likes to look at" isn't producing the consistent trajectory , accuracy, or distance,shots he desires, might it be a good idea to have an open mind and consider other types of club head designs, shafts, or shaft flexes ?

[Mitchell]

Personally have tried to give your intentions the benefit of the doubt, just method of presentation obviously causes some discontent among the membership here. The information that you are so passionate about dispensing here is going to be helpful to someone with minimal knowledge of the game and how its equipment contributes to ease/difficulty of scoring. The typical member here has much more than a modicum of knowledge about both, therefore is probably not the appropriate target audience for such advice. This is not meant in any type of disrespectful tone, simply to let you know that it is obvious you seem to want to help others and generally the best way to do so on a forum such as this is to find a topic in which others are asking for input and then share your knowledge and experience.

[drbonesvt]

[quote name='Mitchell' timestamp='1394595985' post='8853049']
Personally have tried to give your intentions the benefit of the doubt, just method of presentation obviously causes some discontent among the membership here. The information that you are so passionate about dispensing here is going to be helpful to someone with minimal knowledge of the game and how its equipment contributes to ease/difficulty of scoring. The typical member here has much more than a modicum of knowledge about both, therefore is probably not the appropriate target audience for such advice. This is not meant in any type of disrespectful tone, simply to let you know that it is obvious you seem to want to help others and generally the best way to do so on a forum such as this is to find a topic in which others are asking for input and then share your knowledge and experience.
[/quote]

I couldnt agree more, though, everyone coming into wrx doesnt necessarily have that wealth of knowledge and a particular individual is building that knowledge base. I certainly did know back then what I know now after being on here for almost the last 2 years. Certainly cost me some $$$ in addition to member's fees.

Maybe it has its place - jury is out.

[square]

Not really, For example in my regular skins game one 0 handicap player and one +3 club/teaching pro , in pursuit of higher trajectory shots, tried significantly different clubs from what they were accustomed to playing. It worked out well for the 0 handicap guy (he replaced his 3 and 4 irons with Adams hybrids) , but not as well for the +3 guy (he tried some large headed irons).
The 0 probably has about a 73 or 74 scoring average.The +3 I guess has about a 70 scoring average. He shoots in the mid sixties often. What impressed me is that they were willing to keep an open mind and try some very different type equipment. Often times guys with a scoring average that low think of themselves as a player, and don't consider the possibility that different club head designs or shaft flexes might help them shoot lower scores.

[quote name='Mitchell' timestamp='1394595985' post='8853049']
Personally have tried to give your intentions the benefit of the doubt, just method of presentation obviously causes some discontent among the membership here. The information that you are so passionate about dispensing here is going to be helpful to someone with minimal knowledge of the game and how its equipment contributes to ease/difficulty of scoring. The typical member here has much more than a modicum of knowledge about both, therefore is probably not the appropriate target audience for such advice. This is not meant in any type of disrespectful tone, simply to let you know that it is obvious you seem to want to help others and generally the best way to do so on a forum such as this is to find a topic in which others are asking for input and then share your knowledge and experience.
[/quote]

[square]

Yes, I believe Wishon's product line is deficient in that he does not offer any weight screw technology driver heads other than the large 450CC head size. To me that is contrary to his conviction that shorter length drivers make sense for a majority of players.
I suggested he consider offering some smaller head drivers, which I believe would be in harmony with his promotion of shorter length drivers. Tom Wishon had no problem with my suggestion. Why do you ?
[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1394589631' post='8852241']
I remember him even arguing with TW one day about his club line up lol..
[/quote]

[Mitchell]

Maybe if you had told of that experience and asked if anyone had a similar one or had observed same instead of coming across like you were imparting some widely unknown knowledge that served for the education/edification of the forum, the responses would have been more positive and welcoming?

[square]

Maybe.,but I have never been a good communicator. As Sam Snead said, "you dance with who you brung".
Anyway, the substance of my message is sound, hopefully providing helpful benefit to anyone who wants to make use of it.

[quote name='Mitchell' timestamp='1394597916' post='8853255']
Maybe if you had told of that experience and asked if anyone had a similar one or had observed same instead of coming across like you were imparting some widely unknown knowledge that served for the education/edification of the forum, the responses would have been more positive and welcoming?
[/quote]

[drbonesvt]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1394597729' post='8853241']
Yes, I believe Wishon's product line is deficient in that he does not offer any weight screw technology driver heads other than the large 450CC head size. To me that is contrary to his conviction that shorter length drivers make sense for a majority of players.
I suggested he consider offering some smaller head drivers, which I believe would be in harmony with his promotion of shorter length drivers. Tom Wishon had no problem with my suggestion. Why do you ?
[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1394589631' post='8852241']
I remember him even arguing with TW one day about his club line up lol..
[/quote]
[/quote]

Whoa, back that one up; VERY firm believer in the right to ones opinion, but Mr. Wishon has forgotten more about golf than we all know combined.

[ramseyjs]

Shot 67 today.

[rymail00]

[quote name='drbonesvt' timestamp='1394598511' post='8853319']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1394597729' post='8853241']
Yes, I believe Wishon's product line is deficient in that he does not offer any weight screw technology driver heads other than the large 450CC head size. To me that is contrary to his conviction that shorter length drivers make sense for a majority of players.
I suggested he consider offering some smaller head drivers, which I believe would be in harmony with his promotion of shorter length drivers. Tom Wishon had no problem with my suggestion. Why do you ?
[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1394589631' post='8852241']
I remember him even arguing with TW one day about his club line up lol..
[/quote]
[/quote]

Whoa, back that one up; VERY firm believer in the right to ones opinion, but Mr. Wishon has forgotten more about golf than we all know combined.
[/quote]

I was with you for all 4 pages, but maybe it could of been done in a less ''i know more than you guys'', type of way. Thats all.

Secondly, is there maybe a chance Mr. Whishon was being non-confrontational in his response?

Again your ideas are not necessarily wrong, maybe it just kinda rubbed some people the wrong way., thats all.

[Pigems]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1394597729' post='8853241']
Yes, I believe Wishon's product line is deficient in that he does not offer any weight screw technology driver heads other than the large 450CC head size. To me that is contrary to his conviction that shorter length drivers make sense for a majority of players.
I suggested he consider offering some smaller head drivers, which I believe would be in harmony with his promotion of shorter length drivers. Tom Wishon had no problem with my suggestion. Why do you ?
[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1394589631' post='8852241']
I remember him even arguing with TW one day about his club line up lol..
[/quote]
[/quote]

Its not your suggestion that bothered me, everyone is entitled to an opinion. Its the fact that like another poster said, Mr. Wishon has probably forgotten more about golf then we will ever know combimned, do you really think your going to tell him anything he doesnt already know?? lol

It would be like trying to tell Lebron James how to shoot free throws or telling Sidney Crosby how to stick handle better, it just doesnt work that way.

[Mizgoodie]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1394594827' post='8852935']
Nowhere in this thread have I recommended anybody play one club or another. My purpose is to suggest that players keep an open mind when choosing their club types, shaft flexes etc...rather than swinging clubs which don't produce as good a shots as that player is capable of playing.
For example , one guy I know has a bag full of muscle back irons, 2-iron through wedge, and for him what he carries in his bag is more important to him than the scores he shoots. He is one of those guys who talks in the sixties, dresses in the seventies, and shoots in the eighties. And that's fine. It's a free country . Another guy I know enjoys making up stories about what he shoots or telling people what clubs he has in his bag.. Of course standing around a pro shop blowing smoke about shots and scores, or posting about them on the internet, is not the same thing as actually doing it on a golf course. Is it ?
Anyway, this thread is not for you,. It's for player's interested in considering that different club head designs, shaft materials,, or shaft flex types might help them strike consistently better golf shots.
Since my childhood I have learned much from other players, competent golf instructors, observing better players etc... It's part of the game of golf to learn and share helpful information.

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1394588929' post='8852137']
Yep, you've concluded 'you' know better, and didn't have to say out loud, negatively stereotyped 72-77 level players. I think some of your advice has merit, but you lose merit by assuming you know what's best for all; worse yet, argue to that belief. Maybe I missed it, but haven't seen where you shared what level golfer you are... Given, I haven't seen it, may I presume you're a bogey golfer or maybe even a single digit, that quietly thinks you are better than many others.
[/quote]
[/quote]

you just did backhanded,, what you said you were not doing..

[QEight]

Nope. Because I do not play shovels.

[Yellow Jacket]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1394597729' post='8853241']
Yes, I believe Wishon's product line is deficient in that he does not offer any weight screw technology driver heads other than the large 450CC head size. To me that is contrary to his conviction that shorter length drivers make sense for a majority of players.
I suggested he consider offering some smaller head drivers, which I believe would be in harmony with his promotion of shorter length drivers. Tom Wishon had no problem with my suggestion. Why do you ?
[quote name='Pigems' timestamp='1394589631' post='8852241']
I remember him even arguing with TW one day about his club line up lol..
[/quote]
[/quote]
There's literally no reason you couldn't use a 450cc head in a 43" driver.

[bladehunter]

[Pigems]

It seems like we have a case of "Square" Peg, Round Hole here...

[JJensen]

I think there is a point of diminishing return.

My scoring average is not 72. Probably closer to 75-76 if I average my rounds at my home course and traveling rounds. I also play college golf.

I CAN NOT for the life of me hit AP1, G25 or other irons along those lines. They also do not allow me to work the ball if I need to. I'm fairly open minded, heck I went to the "nike head to head" thing and didn't look at what the guy have me (after telling him I play an 8.5 X) it was the standard Covert 2.0 with a 50g Regular. I hit it, then I said it felt a little whippy and light. I asked for the tour set at 8.5 with the speeder 757x. I was longer and more consistent.

I honestly think saying if you aren't shooting under par you need to listen to marketing BS is one of the worst things I have heard.

[JJensen]

 

here ya go! I shouldn't be playing these clubs though.... I need shovels.

 

[rymail00]

 

here ya go! I shouldn't be playing these clubs though.... I need shovels.

 

 

Wow...really should be playing SGI. Seriously, you play college golf?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding. Nice grouping.

[JJensen]

 

here ya go! I shouldn't be playing these clubs though.... I need shovels.

 

 

Wow...really should be playing SGI. Seriously, you play college golf?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding. Nice grouping.

 

Thanks Haha it looks a lot worse that it was. That was 40-50 junky range balls

[stuart374]

You didn't say how many holes.

[tdelam]

 

here ya go! I shouldn't be playing these clubs though.... I need shovels.

 

 

Little bit of face spraying going on there! you need shovels! :lol: