how to report a guy cheating his handicap?

[HoosierHacker89]

we have a member at my club that has a 12.4 handicap and everyone there knows he is a 0 at worst. I would really like to report this to the USGA, but i don't know how to do it. I am looking for advice how to make sure this actually happen. It is out of control, and i am tired to hearing him wine and complain about not getting a fair advantage all the time.

[oregongolf]

[quote name='HoosierHacker89' timestamp='1395769268' post='8947989']
we have a member at my club that has a 12.4 handicap and everyone there knows he is a 0 at worst. I would really like to report this to the USGA, but i don't know how to do it. I am looking for advice how to make sure this actually happen. It is out of control, and i am tired to hearing him wine and complain about not getting a fair advantage all the time.
[/quote]

That's pretty incredible, but it should definitely be reported to your handicap committee. I would think if it is as bad as you say, he would have a reduced handicap. Your committee can at a minimum, manually set a handicap or at worst withdraw it completely.

Will you post his GHIN scores? You can blank out his name... but I would like to see someone's tournament scores who is that ballsy.

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='HoosierHacker89' timestamp='1395769268' post='8947989']
we have a member at my club that has a 12.4 handicap and everyone there knows he is a 0 at worst. I would really like to report this to the USGA, but i don't know how to do it. I am looking for advice how to make sure this actually happen. It is out of control, and i am tired to hearing him wine and complain about not getting a fair advantage all the time.
[/quote]

How does he get to 12.4? Does he post false scores? Not report all of his rounds? Had to laugh at "fair advantage"...seems like an oxymoron to me.

[Stuart_G]

I believe it should be reported the the club's handicap committee, not directly to the USGA.

It would be more credible if you had more detailed info on how he's achieving the lower handicap. e.g. Not posting his better scores, posting fraudulent scores, not applying ESC to his scores, etc..

[Sean2]

If he plays well in tournaments there would be a letter next to his handicap when it is updated (I forget what the letter is), indicating that the golfer in question is playing way below his HI in tournaments.

[skylargolf]

Does he play a lot of the games at your club. After winning some type of money game, most clubs will adjust your handicap or advantage for the next time.

[tembolo1284]

Holy crap this is crazy. Should be obvious from tourneys and as sean said he'll get that letter next to his name showing he's on fire.

[Tee2Green85]

by any means this isn't right, but why even bother reporting him. THis crap happens at every club you go to. You could make a bigger a$$ of him by just letting him know to his face, or better yet, confront him while he's with his friends before the start of the next tournament. Being a weesal and going behind his back will be a kick in the steeple, you got an issue with it then man up and put him on full blast.

[HoosierHacker89]

I feel like this goes well above even the course. He keeps his handicap at a course that is not out club, and there are no tournament scores posted to his handicap even though he plays in several tournaments each year. I am just not sure what to do. The owners of the course know about this behavior and it keeps going on.

[oregongolf]

[quote name='Tee2Green85' timestamp='1395770301' post='8948139']
by any means this isn't right, but why even bother reporting him. THis crap happens at every club you go to. You could make a bigger a$$ of him by just letting him know to his face, or better yet, confront him while he's with his friends before the start of the next tournament. Being a weesal and going behind his back will be a kick in the steeple, you got an issue with it then man up and put him on full blast.
[/quote]

I've seen serious sandbaggers before, but never before this brazen. If it is indeed this bad, 12+ strokes is an impressive sandbagger feat and he's likely been confronted about it before. Guys like this need to see the real consequences of being an asshat... and manually adjusting his handicap is probably a good start.

[Tee2Green85]

either way you look at it, if he's cheating his handicap he is most likely cheating on the course as well.

[Tee2Green85]

[quote name='oregongolf' timestamp='1395770511' post='8948177']
[quote name='Tee2Green85' timestamp='1395770301' post='8948139']
by any means this isn't right, but why even bother reporting him. THis crap happens at every club you go to. You could make a bigger a$$ of him by just letting him know to his face, or better yet, confront him while he's with his friends before the start of the next tournament. Being a weesal and going behind his back will be a kick in the steeple, you got an issue with it then man up and put him on full blast.
[/quote]

I've seen serious sandbaggers before, but never before this brazen. If it is indeed this bad, 12+ strokes is an impressive sandbagger feat and he's likely been confronted about it before. Guys like this need to see the real consequences of being an asshat... and manually adjusting his handicap is probably a good start.
[/quote]

Cheating is cheating whether its by 1,2, or 12 strokes.. A single stroke sandbagged on your handicap during a capped tourney can be a game changer. I've seen it happen plenty of times at all three courses ive been a member at.

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='Tee2Green85' timestamp='1395770590' post='8948183']
either way you look at it, if he's cheating his handicap he is most likely cheating on the course as well.
[/quote]

He doesn't need to cheat with 12 strokes + the slope adjustment.

[HoosierHacker89]

[quote name='Tee2Green85' timestamp='1395770590' post='8948183']
either way you look at it, if he's cheating his handicap he is most likely cheating on the course as well.
[/quote]

Doesn't cheat on the course that i have ever seen. He is an awesome player just has a handicap that is much higher than it should be.

[oregongolf]

[quote name='HoosierHacker89' timestamp='1395770413' post='8948163']
I feel like this goes well above even the course. He keeps his handicap at a course that is not out club, and there are no tournament scores posted to his handicap even though he plays in several tournaments each year. I am just not sure what to do. The owners of the course know about this behavior and it keeps going on.
[/quote]

It's likely that the owners of the course aren't involved in any of the handicapping. You need to check with the handicap chairman. You should be able to find out who it is and his email or phone number through your state golf association's website.

I have to ask, if he's keeping his handicap at another club and keeping it artificially inflated and it's actually a real problem... why isn't your own club giving him a realistic tournament handicap?

[HoosierHacker89]

I guess the meaning of this thread is not to bash a guy for cheating. I am past that part. I am just looking for advice on how to approach this. I have talked to the guys that run the course and they give me the old excuse "this is just kinda the way it is out here"

[HoosierHacker89]

[quote name='oregongolf' timestamp='1395770860' post='8948221']
[quote name='HoosierHacker89' timestamp='1395770413' post='8948163']
I feel like this goes well above even the course. He keeps his handicap at a course that is not out club, and there are no tournament scores posted to his handicap even though he plays in several tournaments each year. I am just not sure what to do. The owners of the course know about this behavior and it keeps going on.
[/quote]

It's likely that the owners of the course aren't involved in any of the handicapping. You need to check with the handicap chairman. You should be able to find out who it is and his email or phone number through your state golf association's website.

I have to ask, if he's keeping his handicap at another club and keeping it artificially inflated and it's actually a real problem... why isn't your own club giving him a realistic tournament handicap?
[/quote]

I don't have the answer to that.

[oregongolf]

[quote name='HoosierHacker89' timestamp='1395770963' post='8948233']
I guess the meaning of this thread is not to bash a guy for cheating. I am past that part. I am just looking for advice on how to approach this. I have talked to the guys that run the course and they give me the old excuse "this is just kinda the way it is out here"
[/quote]

I understand...

If you want some help, I can probably find the handicap chair's information for you... but need more details.

Can you post the guy's scoring record (including the tournament scores you know of)? I'm genuinely interested in seeing this. Again, you can blank his name out.

[HoosierHacker89]

i will do some homework, and i will see what i can pull up.

[Tee2Green85]

Then what I would do is report the club as a whole through a simple email, letter, or phone call to the chairman of your handicapped organization and not rejoin the following year.

The United States Golf Association
P.O. Box 708
Far Hills, N.J. 07931
908-326-1850
Fax: 908-234-9687

[DavePelz4]

He must also win events at his "other" club. Any idea of how/if they've dealt with the issue?

[Stuart_G]

[quote name='HoosierHacker89' timestamp='1395770963' post='8948233']
I guess the meaning of this thread is not to bash a guy for cheating. I am past that part. I am just looking for advice on how to approach this. I have talked to the guys that run the course and they give me the old excuse "this is just kinda the way it is out here"
[/quote]

You've already gotten some good advice. Find out who makes up the handicap committee for that club and talk to them, don't just talk to the owner. If that fails, then the next avenue would be to the state's official golf association. Although I suspect if you have to go to that level, you should document your attempt to contact the clubs committee and their response and provide much more specific proof.

It never hurts to ask advice from the USGA as well. They do take questions by phone and e-mail.

[Tee2Green85]

You send a letter, fax, phone call to those numbers provided above they will redirect your concerns to your local committee for you.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='HoosierHacker89' timestamp='1395769268' post='8947989']
we have a member at my club that has a 12.4 handicap and everyone there knows he is a 0 at worst. I would really like to report this to the USGA, but i don't know how to do it. I am looking for advice how to make sure this actually happen. It is out of control, and i am tired to hearing him wine and complain about not getting a fair advantage all the time.
[/quote]

I totally understand not liking cheaters. However, USGA doesn't have the time to deal with individuals. That's the job of your handicap committee. And if you can back your statement with proof, fine, but if you can't, its best to let it go. I don't see any thing good coming from being a tattletale of sorts. There is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.

[502 to Right]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1395772083' post='8948393']
[quote name='HoosierHacker89' timestamp='1395769268' post='8947989']
we have a member at my club that has a 12.4 handicap and everyone there knows he is a 0 at worst. I would really like to report this to the USGA, but i don't know how to do it. I am looking for advice how to make sure this actually happen. It is out of control, and i am tired to hearing him wine and complain about not getting a fair advantage all the time.
[/quote]

I totally understand not liking cheaters. However, USGA doesn't have the time to deal with individuals. That's the job of your handicap committee. And if you can back your statement with proof, fine, but if you can't, its best to let it go. I don't see any thing good coming from being a tattletale of sorts. There is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
[/quote]

I agree with Pepperturbo, if you are going to pursue this you need to have actual evidence. Just saying "I know this guy is a scratch handicap at worst" is not going to get you very far.

[SatelliteGuy]

Id call him out publicly....

EVERY single time I laid eyes on him...

When he talks.... Call him a cheater...

When he's gearing up for a Tournament... Tell everyone you come across that he's a cheater...

Make a very quiet, yet very loud statement.... Don't be brash... Don't be loud or mean...

Just let him and everyone else know that you are his official advocate for playing by the rules and establishing his proper handicap...

[HoosierHacker89]

I am working on gathering empirical evidence as in tournament scores that would help dictate this.

[hankmoody]

My advice is to consider how much you really want to pursue this, and what some possible outcomes could be, and whether the outcomes would be worth it/good or bad for you. If it were me personally, and I knew the people prior, I would have a conversation with the head pro about it, and possibly someone on the handicap committee if I knew them. What is everyone else saying? It must be obvious to others.

I'm not sure I would have the inclination to write letters, call USGA, etc. You may feel differently. Also, what will this guy's reaction be when/if he finds out you are doing this. Probably not positive, but what else? Will he bring drama into your life? Do you want that over this issue, that kind of stuff. Tough situation no doubt. Best luck with it.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='DirecTVTechGuy' timestamp='1395772418' post='8948431']
Id call him out publicly....

EVERY single time I laid eyes on him...

When he talks.... Call him a cheater...

When he's gearing up for a Tournament... Tell everyone you come across that he's a cheater...

Make a very quiet, yet very loud statement.... Don't be brash... Don't be loud or mean...

Just let him and everyone else know that you are his official advocate for playing by the rules and establishing his proper handicap...
[/quote]

Yeah, right. I can see those that whine about this or that calling out someone f2f....NOT. For the most part, people talk tough online, but f2f, don't have the right stuff.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='HoosierHacker89' timestamp='1395772575' post='8948457']
I am working on gathering empirical evidence as in tournament scores that would help dictate this.
[/quote]

Any reasonable tournament committee is already aware of his scores vs handicap. Providing scores is NOT proof he's cheating.