Lower Body + The Move + Feet

[wagolfer7]

Hey guys, I appreciate any feedback on this topic. I'm currently a 7 and I've realized the last month that I'm not using my lower body correctly. I've read a lot of threads on this forum and I've watched videos plus I did a quick glance at 'the secret is in the dirt' e-book.

 

I've worked on a few things, but I feel like I don't know what feeling is correct with my lower body.

 

There has been a few times where I've really compressed the ball with a solid divot. For the most part right now, I'm taking a divot, but it's not the same kind of compression I've felt the few times I've done something correctly.

 

At the beginning this is what I was trying. I would try to feel like my left knee would bow out. And my feet would feel like they were almost going in opposite directions. My right foot is pushing towards the target and my left foot is almost pushing the other way creating resistance. Then as I would start my transition, I would let my left foot give in to the resistance and roll to the left heel, while the right foot would push into the target and eventually get where the right heel is off the ground. This was an extremely difficult move and I couldn't get the timing. If this is correct, I can see where I might be able to get this down, with a lot of practice.

 

I had to play some rounds and I couldn't do what I described above. So I started more of a squash the bottle idea. I would just get my weight back on the right foot. Then start the down swing the the weight going to the left front foot (not the toes, but the ball). Then I would let the weight roll back to the heel during impact. This worked pretty well. I'd get decent compression and I actually played pretty well. However I feel like there is too much movement right to left. Swaying or lateral movement. I don't try to get my left knee bowed out and I think this allows me to move too much towards the target. Which would cause a few inconsistencies.

 

I guess I'm looking to find my "move". I've only been working on this a few weeks and I realize it will take a lot longer to get it down. But I just want to make sure I'm working on the correct things.

 

On a side note. As I started to focus on my lower body, I now feel like my upper body is very relaxed on the down swing. I don't really feel like I do anything with my arms / hands. Just my shoulders start turning when the lower body makes them. It's a real different feeling than I've ever had. And the results have been good.

 

Thanks again for any comments.

[Reasonability]

Wag,

Welcome to Wrx. Newer folks are sometimes not quickly responded to and I'm sorry you've been left hanging.

You clearly have been working hard on the lower body work which I have to believe is one of the harder parts for all golfers. I will share what I think about it and hopefully by priming the pump here, you will hear from others, too.

So in a nutshell, here are some bullet points I look through during practice sessions. Let me know if you want or need any elaboration. This is just one golfer's perspective being shared with another golfer and I'll try to keep it short and sweet.

1. I use a lot of (but personally not all of) what is found in this link for my setup: Maybe a few things in here might be useful to you as well if needed.

[url="http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/AddressSetup.htm"]http://perfectgolfsw...ddressSetup.htm[/url]

This very helpful to me, as my transition, footwork, and other things you mention are not something I can easily create or manipulate during the swing itself. Which leads to #2...

2. Personally, I don't push-off of the back foot. Instead, and by relying on the secondary spine tilt at address, AND because my trail knee hovers just over or barely inside the trail foot instep.... then the hips turn going back... under and in response to the shoulder turn. Then in transition, the hips turn back. I would say for about the first 1/8 to 1/4 of the downswing, the weight is still mostly on the back instep/heel/inside of the trail leg. But the "unit" of the arm structure is just starting to come back down. Remembering that in #1, I created a posture, and my intent is to turn around that posture such that in face-on or DTL mirrors, my spine tilts are still there. At the top, my trail hip has inched back from the toe-line, my sternum is barely target-side of the trail knee which is still just barely inside the trail instep. So from the FO view, at the top the upper spine is just a touch farther from the target than the lower back 00 just as was the case at setup.

3. This hip movement in transition gets it all started, but to finish it. I now need the lead hip to move away from the toe line and the trail elbow, hip, shoulder and whole trail-side to move to the lead side -- STILL in posture. I feel the pressure down through the ground in the trail side foot at the top, and in as that trail side flows all the way to the lead side through the strike -- I feel the pressure down through the lead side foot. So for me, there is no feel of pushing-off the trail side foot.

This is how I personally experience it and feel it. This doesn't make me right and you wrong.... just thought I would (per your request) describe what I feel and work on. Again, hopefully others will have more and better thoughts of their own.

EDIT: FWIW... I got to where and how I experience all this by growing up with Hogan's 5 Lessons book and working with mirrors a lot. My dog probably has a swing that looks more like Hogan's than mine (LOL) but the drills and half-swing work he suggests did provide the basis of all this for me personally.

Best to you and again, welcome!

[wagolfer7]

[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1407817285' post='9914751']
3. This hip movement in transition gets it all started, but to finish it. I now need the lead hip to move away from the toe line and the trail elbow, hip, shoulder and whole trail-side to move to the lead side -- STILL in posture. I feel the pressure down through the ground in the trail side foot at the top, and in as that trail side flows all the way to the lead side through the strike -- I feel the pressure down through the lead side foot. So for me, there is no feel of pushing-off the trail side foot.


[/quote]

Reasonability,
Thanks for the reply. I think I did make a minor mistake, by not posting a video. I'll be looking to do that very soon. Obviously makes it a lot easier to discuss my swing.

Also thanks for the link. I feel like my posture is pretty good. I spent a lot of time on this before and feel like I'm doing pretty good in that aspect. But I did find a few good checkpoints in that link that I will definitely take a look at.

You describe the transition as not pushing off your right trail foot, but feeling pressure in your trail foot then feeling pressure in your lead foot. I am wondering if you can get any more specific with this? Where exactly are you feeling pressure in each of these feet?

At the moment I just want to get my feet correct. I've never focused on my feet before. I've always just got weight to the trail then over to the lead. With a lot of sway.

When you are getting pressure on your trail foot, where do you feel it (heel or ball of foot or both)? Then as you get ready to move to your lead side, does the pressure on the trail foot start to move more towards the ball of the foot and away from heel? Then with the lead foot are you getting the pressure at the ball of the foot (towards the toes, but not on the toes)? Do you bow your left knee out at all? Then is the hip rotation in sync with moving pressure from the ball of the lead foot to the heel?

Thanks again.

[FutureOfTheTour]

I think the best feel for the transition is to move the lead glute onto the tush line. It feels as if I push or pull my lead glute straight back toward my heel. This move automatically shifts my weight and my legs drive properly.

[wagolfer7]

[quote name='FutureOfTheTour' timestamp='1407856528' post='9916985']
I think the best feel for the transition is to move the lead glute onto the tush line. It feels as if I push or pull my lead glute straight back toward my heel. This move automatically shifts my weight and my legs drive properly.
[/quote]

FOT,
Would you consider this like a "squat move"? That is the only way I can feel my glute and get it to move towards the heel. It would be a very small squat movement. Thanks for reply.

[FutureOfTheTour]

I dont actually feel myself lowering but in video there is definitely a squat. Also my lead knees moves out toward target but again I dont feel any of it. Tje only thing I feel is my glute going back

[Atrayn]

Squash the bug with the left heel
Monte's zipper away
The Snead squat
Left knee separating
Hip lateral shift - though I hate this as people tend to do it too much

All trying to accomplish the same thing. Establishing the left pivot point.

Whatever thought that leads to moving the tail bone back and left to maintain the spine tilt in both directions is what you should use.

[Reasonability]

[quote name='wagolfer7' timestamp='1407855122' post='9916779']
[quote name='Reasonability' timestamp='1407817285' post='9914751']
3. This hip movement in transition gets it all started, but to finish it. I now need the lead hip to move away from the toe line and the trail elbow, hip, shoulder and whole trail-side to move to the lead side -- STILL in posture. I feel the pressure down through the ground in the trail side foot at the top, and in as that trail side flows all the way to the lead side through the strike -- I feel the pressure down through the lead side foot. So for me, there is no feel of pushing-off the trail side foot.


[/quote]

You describe the transition as not pushing off your right trail foot, but feeling pressure in your trail foot then feeling pressure in your lead foot. I am wondering if you can get any more specific with this? Where exactly are you feeling pressure in each of these feet?

At the moment I just want to get my feet correct. I've never focused on my feet before. I've always just got weight to the trail then over to the lead. With a lot of sway.

When you are getting pressure on your trail foot, where do you feel it (heel or ball of foot or both)? Then as you get ready to move to your lead side, does the pressure on the trail foot start to move more towards the ball of the foot and away from heel? Then with the lead foot are you getting the pressure at the ball of the foot (towards the toes, but not on the toes)? Do you bow your left knee out at all? Then is the hip rotation in sync with moving pressure from the ball of the lead foot to the heel?

Thanks again.
[/quote]

Sure thing. I too fought sway and still have to keep a check on it. WHY I would sway ties directly to how/when I feel pressure into the ground. I would sway because of three things. (I've since learned these are common issues with many golfers).

1) I didn't turn my shoulders perpendicular to the spine -- instead I turned them a little more level with the horizon. (this will get back to the feet, I promise.)

2) My trail hip did not rotate back from the toe line in the BS... it was pinned while the lead hip swung out and around in front of me... (step one to early extension since I was already starting a forward advance of the hips toward to ball in the backswing. With the lead hip too far toward the ball at the top, the trail hip moves even more toward the ball in the DS since no one can clear the lead hip when it starts off in transition too far toward the ball).

3) My trail knee was not floating just over the trail instep -- it drifted a little over the trail foot in the BS. Which when coupled with #1 and #2 sort of doomed me to have to sway. It was a minor sway going back because I had pinned down the trail hip -- which just caused a bigger sway coming through.

So to counter these issues, I would drive the handle from the top in an almost straight line down to the ball, AND push off the trail foot. This would work SOMETIMES.... but rarely. It was a swing that carried a steep angle of attack, lots of deep divots, and lots of hand flipping through the release. When it was timed perfectly, the inertia of the body sway added to the perfect amount of hand flip felt very powerful and when it was just right the ball went a mile.

The problem was... that timing might happen for twenty-thirty minute stretches during a round. At the range, I could get it going since I was hitting ball after ball in succession.... but during play.... it almost never lasted. I would take a thousand practice swings to try and keep that sense of perfect timing going which really didn't help anything other than to tire me out and get me frustrated and tense (and even sore). I could break 80 on a given day... but I could also post a 92 the next day. And the driver? It was NOT my friend. So, now lets tie all of this back to the feet and knee action.

I feel the trail hip drifting back and away from the toe line AND the trail knee keeps its flex as it overs over the inside of the trail instep. Thanks to the secondary spine tilt, at the top the sternum (with the hands traveling in front of the sternum deep into the BS) that sternum lands just over or barely inside the trail knee at the top. I had to learn to turn the shoulders perpendicular to the spine (more left shoulder down and right shoulder up).... or else I would ruin my spine angles when completing the BS.

This action places gradually growing pressure down through the inside of the trail leg and into the inside of the trail foot. There is probably more pressure in the heel as I "could" wiggle the trail foot toes a little at the top if I were to pause there. SO, the trail knee, and the trail hip cause this feeling through the inside of the trail leg down into the ground. It is instep and heel that seem to feel most. When the trail hip is pinned and/or the trail knee wanders so much as a couple of inches over the trail foot -- I am in trouble and I don't have that feeling..... especially if/when I fail to setup with a secondary spine tilt. So there is how/when I feel it going back. My LEAD knee does buckle slightly going back... it drifts toward the toes of the trail foot somewhat... it does NOT move straight forward toward the ball and the heel doesn't lift much at all.... perhaps barely so but very little if any.

Transition -- I would say Monte's zipper-away drill explains it as quickly and simply as anything I've ever seen. There was no such drill available to me back in the day... so I thought of like this: At first (and while learning) I would consciously separate the knees a bit and simultaneously swing the belly through the shot to learn the transition. In practice sessions I would consciously feel the pressure into the lead foot through impact. (I was still swaying forward a little, but less so....so I knew I was getting there). Then I imagined a tennis ball attached to the trail front hip pocket being tossed down the line with this move. If this imaginary ball were tossed right of the target line through the shot, it would not be clearing enough and was surely swaying.

With the zipper-away drill, all this nonsense and imagery really isn't necessary... but back then it was all I could come up with on my own. The knee action in all of this is never toward the ball, The lead knee is the only thing moving (mostly laterally a bit) through this as the trail knee's movement is only in response to the trail hip's movement back from the toe line.

Through impact the lead foot's sense of pressure grows and is coupled with the trail hip moving back from the toe line (clearing) as the whole right side moves to my left in-posture. That secondary spine tilt and preserving that until post-impact is how this occurs. I don't feel the lead foot absorbing the weight in the ball of the foot (some do, I don't). Instead I feel it throughout the outside edge of the foot. It would possible to slip a tee under the instep of my lead foot from impact to the finish as that foot is sort of rolling to its outside edge.

So by way of foot and knee action, this is how it works in detail for me personally. But it only happens because of WHY I would sway in the first place. From the setup with two tilts, the feet and knees react the way they do by NOT pinning down the trail hip going back, keeping the trail knee inside the instep, and nowadays thanks to Monte -- a zipper-away style transition.

[wagolfer7]

Reasonability,
Thanks so much for your detailed explanation of the feeling of your lower body. You've given me a lot of information. I'm going to digest and play around with these during practice. Thanks again, I really appreciate it.