How do you handle honors when you have two singles matches in a foursome?

[TheCityGame]

A is playing B in the same foursome that C is playing D.

 

The A/B match has nothing to do with the C/D match.

 

How do you handle honors?

 

Example 1) On the first hole A has a 4, B has a 5, C has a 6, D has a 7. What's the order on the second tee?

 

Example 2) On the first hole, A has a 4, B has a 7, C has a 5, D has a 6. What's the order on the second tee?

[DavePelz4]

One of the matches should always go first and the other second. Low score, or net score, should go first in each.

[cardoustie]

One match plays 1st for the front 9, and one match plays first on the back 9 is the usual op

[cardoustie]

Oh ... also guys not in same match should not roll putts (even if it is their turn to play) if their putting roll will help another guy in the other match with his putting line / read

[Cancun]

You may come up with a variety of proposals: Group 1 plays first in the front and group 2 in the back, or group 1 goes first all the time, or alternate and group 1 goes first in odd numbered holes, group 2 in the rest…

In terms of the Rules, there is no relation between each match. The players in match 1 are outside agencies for the other match and vice versa. This means that [u]2 players[/u] have the honor (in terms of Rules) from each tee and those two players would be the ones who have the honor in each of the two matches.

Maybe the most delicate situations could take place on the green, since a player with a similar line could help a player in a different match. I believe the Committee should prevent discussions by determining which group plays first from each tee since the beginning and I would also say that the group starting first in the [u]next[/u] hole should “own” the putting green before (the other two players mark their ball and wait outside the green). Once they finish, the other group would finish the hole. This also helps with pace of play since the first group putting may go to the next tee and hit while the other players finish.

Does that make any sense to you?

Have a good day!

[TheCityGame]

I don't really like the idea of two players walking off the green, bagging clubs, getting into carts and driving off while other players are putting, who then will be rolling up to the tee while the other players are teeing off. It's going to be on a crowded golf course on Saturday morning anyway. . .not going to make a difference.

Thanks for the replies. It's the early rounds of the club championship. I just can't remember what we did in the past and wondered if there was a standard.

[teejaywhy]

The OP asked about honors on the tee. On the putting green, I have never seen anything other than the normal away etiquette being used.

Cancun's suggestion makes no sense. Whichever match putts first, there exists the possibility that their putts might give a read to someone in the second match.

It's golf. One can never resolve these perceived inequities.

[Cancun]

[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1407870094' post='9918565']
I don't really like the idea of two players walking off the green, bagging clubs, getting into carts and driving off while other players are putting, who then will be rolling up to the tee while the other players are teeing off. It's going to be on a crowded golf course on Saturday morning anyway. . .not going to make a difference.

Thanks for the replies. It's the early rounds of the club championship. I just can't remember what we did in the past and wondered if there was a standard.
[/quote]
[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1407937262' post='9923641']
Cancun's suggestion makes no sense. Whichever match putts first, there exists the possibility that their putts might give a read to someone in the second match.
[/quote]

I signed the USGA’s “While we’re Young” pledge.

Back at the beginning they sent a letter from a Golf course that deals with this subject. If I could find it I’d be glad to share it with you, but it’s nowhere to be found. Maybe they even erased it at the USGA site because they decided that, as teejaywhy suggests, it doesn't make any sense.

Nevertheless, let me share what it said and trust me there’s where I got that idea:

In a group of four, when all of them were on the green, the player with the honor would play (nothing new so far LOL ). Then he and whichever player who’s riding along with him in the same cart would finish the hole (playing as if they were only two players). Once they finished, the other two would calmly read their putts as the first two leave the green, and finish. In the meantime, the first two are teeing off from the next hole. Honestly, it sounded like a lot of mess to me when I read it, so I perfectly understand your “doesn’t make any sense” comment LOL

The thing is that I used to play with a slow group back then. I decided that, if I had signed the pledge, I'd give it a try for one round and see what happened. The result was amazing: we shaved more 2 minutes per hole! Yes: the same slow group (we had two very slow players), playing at the same speed with the same routine, but we shaved 40 minutes as compared with our usual rounds! Even the Marshall was surprised when he saw us leaving the 10th green and he asked if we were in a hurry and said “thank you for keeping a great pace! LOL. I know it sounds like I’m exaggerating but I can swear that’s the one and only time a Marshall has ever said that to me (even when I play in 2 hours as a single).

It didn’t help that much in a few holes but it worked great in some others, and
Yes, it’s a little complicated,
Yes, you modify the order of play as per the Rules,
Yes, maybe you need to give the two guys leaving the green a few seconds to get lost before your putt (you can read and line up your putt in the meantime)
Yes, it’s kind of awkward and different and maybe not the best etiquette to leave when they haven’t finished…
But at the end it’s [u]very[/u] effective, I can tell you that.

I didn’t like it that much, but when we’re playing and falling behind, we sometimes do it just to get back in position. Trust me: if you ever try it you’ll be surprised how easy it is to shave a little (or a lot) of time by doing this.

Well, that’s the story and there's where I got the idea for two matches where the order of play might be important.

Have a great day!

[rogolf]

[quote name='Cancun' timestamp='1407947133' post='9924835']
[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1407870094' post='9918565']
I don't really like the idea of two players walking off the green, bagging clubs, getting into carts and driving off while other players are putting, who then will be rolling up to the tee while the other players are teeing off. It's going to be on a crowded golf course on Saturday morning anyway. . .not going to make a difference.

Thanks for the replies. It's the early rounds of the club championship. I just can't remember what we did in the past and wondered if there was a standard.
[/quote]
[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1407937262' post='9923641']
Cancun's suggestion makes no sense. Whichever match putts first, there exists the possibility that their putts might give a read to someone in the second match.
[/quote]

I signed the USGA’s “While we’re Young” pledge.

Back at the beginning they sent a letter from a Golf course that deals with this subject. If I could find it I’d be glad to share it with you, but it’s nowhere to be found. Maybe they even erased it at the USGA site because they decided that, as teejaywhy suggests, it doesn't make any sense.

Nevertheless, let me share what it said and trust me there’s where I got that idea:

In a group of four, when all of them were on the green, the player with the honor would play (nothing new so far LOL ). Then he and whichever player who’s riding along with him in the same cart would finish the hole (playing as if they were only two players). Once they finished, the other two would calmly read their putts as the first two leave the green, and finish. In the meantime, the first two are teeing off from the next hole. Honestly, it sounded like a lot of mess to me when I read it, so I perfectly understand your “doesn’t make any sense” comment LOL

The thing is that I used to play with a slow group back then. I decided that, if I had signed the pledge, I'd give it a try for one round and see what happened. The result was amazing: we shaved more 2 minutes per hole! Yes: the same slow group (we had two very slow players), playing at the same speed with the same routine, but we shaved 40 minutes as compared with our usual rounds! Even the Marshall was surprised when he saw us leaving the 10th green and he asked if we were in a hurry and said “thank you for keeping a great pace! LOL. I know it sounds like I’m exaggerating but I can swear that’s the one and only time a Marshall has ever said that to me (even when I play in 2 hours as a single).

It didn’t help that much in a few holes but it worked great in some others, and
Yes, it’s a little complicated,
Yes, you modify the order of play as per the Rules,
Yes, maybe you need to give the two guys leaving the green a few seconds to get lost before your putt (you can read and line up your putt in the meantime)
Yes, it’s kind of awkward and different and maybe not the best etiquette to leave when they haven’t finished…
But at the end it’s [u]very[/u] effective, I can tell you that.

I didn’t like it that much, but when we’re playing and falling behind, we sometimes do it just to get back in position. Trust me: if you ever try it you’ll be surprised how easy it is to shave a little (or a lot) of time by doing this.

Well, that’s the story and there's where I got the idea for two matches where the order of play might be important.

Have a great day!
[/quote]

While it may work for casual play, I wouldn't suggest it in competitions for the following reasons:
- imo, groups should not have balls in play on two separate holes (a personal extension of Decision 1-1/1)
- it could be perceived as forming a new group, a breach of Rule 6-3b.

Further minutia - "honor" only exists on the teeing ground.

[TheCityGame]

There's also this bit in the etiquette recommendations from the USGA>

http://www.usga.org/etiquette/tips/Golf-Etiquette-101/

[i][color=#000000][size=3]On the Putting Green[/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]On the putting green, players should not stand on another player's line of putt or when he is making a stroke, cast a shadow over his line of putt. [/size][/color]

[color=#000000][size=3]Players should remain on or close to the putting green until all other players in the group have holed out.[/size][/color][/i]

I walk a lot, and sometimes I'll excuse myself if I decided to walk off after holing out if I have a long walk to the tee, but I always try to apologize for it. I just couldn't get into the idea of making it a standard practice.

[blaird]

[quote name='cardoustie' timestamp='1407868219' post='9918329']
One match plays 1st for the front 9, and one match plays first on the back 9 is the usual op
[/quote]

This is what we did in our cup matches. Me and my opponent teed off first on the front nine then swapped on the back 9 with the other two playing their singles match.

[HoffTTM]

Don't play them in the same group if possible.

If that is not an option one match before the other match regardless of what the relative scores were.

[tbarlow11]

I like the ideas here, which seem somewhat commonplace after all the support they've gotten.

First off I'd say that at my club it's really a rare occasion that we play 2 singles match play matches in the same foursome. 90% of the time, the pairs play by themselves. I'd say another 7% of the time a match is played with 2 bystanders. Then 3% or less of the time we play 2 matches in the same foursome.

When it does occur, most of the time we just stuck to traditional honors as if we were a foursome for the first to tee off. Then whoever had the honor (1st one), his opponent would tee off second, and then the other match would tee off (obviously the honoree first).

So in the OP's Examples (lets say his examples are the first and second holes)
2nd Tee Order: A(4), B(5), C(6), D(7)
3rd Tee Order: A(4), B(7), C(5), D(6)

Then let's say A makes a 4, B a 5, C a 4, and D a 4.

4th Tee Order: A (from traditional honors), B (because match with A), C, D

Like I said this is rare for us, but if it does happen (maybe 2-3 times in the 4 years I've been there), we play it this way.

[TheCityGame]

We're a men's club at a public course. We have 10-12 tournaments a year at the course and we get blocks of tee times, but it's green fee payers out there ahead of us and behind us.

This weekend is club championship, so each tee time is 2 matches. It would be asking a lot of the course to block it off for 2's. That would be nice, though.

Thanks for all the replies.

[hbear]

already posted, but we usually go off the low score (typical honors) on the previous hole.....with his opponent playing second.
Keeps it simple and more like a regular round of golf.

[eagle1997]

Ask the course if you can go off as twosomes, but split the tee time differential in half.

They did this in MN and it worked (they were the first tee times of the day however).

Good luck in the CC!

[TheCityGame]

[quote name='hbear' timestamp='1408168779' post='9945727']
already posted, but we usually go off the low score (typical honors) on the previous hole.....with his opponent playing second.
Keeps it simple and more like a regular round of golf.
[/quote]Yeah, that's basically what we did all weekend.

Whichever individual would have the honors if it was just stroke play. . .he still had the honors, and his "match" had the honors.

We did a little "ready golf" when it was applicable. When my match finished Sunday, we gave the ongoing match honors for the rest of the holes.