Non-technical advice: chipping when you can't see the surface

[TheCityGame]

I'm a good enough short game player for my handicap level. I am improving, but I get up & down enough from decent lies, and the rough around the green to be happy.

 

But, I'm horrible when chipping up to a raised green where I can't see the landing area and/or see the hole. Almost always I hit something half way to the hole, and if I make sure to "go for it" to avoid that, I bring in the "whoops too long" shot.

 

My standard chip is to see the hole, keep an image of it in my head when I'm hitting and try to make it, so I'd say I'm a visual chipper (same with putting).

 

So, I'm asking if anyone like me has any tips/tricks/thoughts when chipping to a surface you can't see. I'm not worried about my technique or contact. . .I just have a hard time visualizing the shot.

 

Typically with that shot, I walk up to the green, find the hole, find a good landing area, maybe see how much distance from "my horizon" to the edge of the green.

 

I guess one issue is that I need to make sure I get it up so the trajectory gets a little high, so that's something to work on, but the lack of visualization seems like a bigger issue to me.

[mark m]

Trust your inherent feel/touch.

Visualize the shot from an area where you can see both your ball and the hole/target. Perhaps even take a few practice swings [u]before[/u] you go up there to get feel for the slope, club, and swing you will likely use. Then don't waste a lot of time when you go back down to hit the actual shot as it is easy to lose the shot you have visualized. Take a couple of practice swings and then go. Even though I am a pretty fast player, for shots like this I will often take a little more time than typical before I play the shot as a good shot can really make a difference in your round. Trust it.

[Millbrook]

You say chipping and maybe need more height as opposed to pitching or a flop type shot.

We have a lot of raised greens so I have a lot of shots like this and prefer to play the ball high and all the way to the hole wothout much run.
The same sort of shot you would play to get over a bunker.
Revolution golf had this as a daily tip today - you can register for free and get the tip before it expires in 3 days.

I've studied NLP so will have a deeper think about the visualisation issue and get back to you.

[Reasonability]

Not to be "that guy" who splits hairs... just going off of what I just read and taking it literally...

If it were a true "chip" I would take a club or two more for the elevation and the landing spot would be halfway up the hill...and more like 3/4 or more for those more elevated greens. If it were a "pitch" the landing spot for me is almost always the peak of the hill or just past it. (knowing sometimes the highest point (peak) is actually just over the collar. You asked for this to be non-technical. So I will phrase it this way. I know I am playing a tough shot. This is one of those in the category of a long bunker shot, or a long 3 wood from a severe downhill/side-hill lie. Mentally, I go into it with acceptance that a "good" shot is ANYTHING that results in a putt. Even a 45 footer is a victory and if I surprise myself with something makeable... its icing on the cake.

[TheCityGame]

I didn't mean this in ANY WAY to be a "chipping" vs. "pitching" thing. Of all golf debates, that's maybe the dumbest.

I can loft the ball up there. That's what I'm talking about, but I'm really just looking for ideas about how people handle the blind shot like that when they're a visual player.

I have no problem getting my 52º or 60º up in the air, or landing it in my spot when it's all out in front of me. Seem to really have an issue getting it there when I'm blind.

[mark m]

City: I am like you in that I play largely by feel and I like to see the spots to land or the overall line of the putt. I have never paced my putts like some do and have a length of stroke corresponding to the yardage. I wonder how guys factor in up hill or down hill? The TV tip of aiming at the top of flag for deep bunker shots (when that is all you can see) has worked pretty good for me as well - as the tendency is to come up short and this helps to offset that somewhat. Just trust your ability. Confidence is everything. Just a couple of good results can make a huge difference. Good luck.

[Reasonability]

[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1408475817' post='9967033']
I didn't mean this in ANY WAY to be a "chipping" vs. "pitching" thing. Of all golf debates, that's maybe the dumbest.

I can loft the ball up there. That's what I'm talking about, but I'm really just looking for ideas about how people handle the blind shot like that when they're a visual player.

I have no problem getting my 52º or 60º up in the air, or landing it in my spot when it's all out in front of me. Seem to really have an issue getting it there when I'm blind.
[/quote]

Well I knew I was on thin ice with that one... and sorry to annoy you if that's how it came off. If I could or knew how to delete the post, I would. What I should have asked was how comfortable you are with hitting into the embankment and letting it roll versus floating it up higher and just left it at a broader question. No offense intended. Hope far better answers -- or at least ones that help you out with it are found. btw - enjoyed your inputs on prepping for tourney golf fwiw.

[Pepperturbo]

Use more club than all your instincts tell you!

Every now and again I face a visually testing par 4, 420yds down hill to a extreme uphill leave (normally 140-150yds yardage but...) to a fast green where, at best, you only see the top half of the pin, and the green is guarded by a deep ugly left bunker. To make it more challenging, darn near every lie in the fairway has the ball above your feet; meaning, misjudged, that bunker is in play. Depending on conditions, typically I use 4-5 iron, which are 180+ or 170+ clubs, and every time there's a moment of self-doubt in those clubs.

Same hole, poor 2nd shot left me 60yds from the pin, but still steep enough, uphill lie, all I could see was the flag. I picked PW (115-118yd carry) and hit it hard, landed 3' right, pin high and saved par.

[oikos1]

Dont know what your practice facility is like, but most courses don't have elevated practice greens. Best thing to do is get on the course when its slow and spend 10-15 minutes practicing at an elevated green. Do this four or five times and you should have a pretty good feel for the shot. I do this for lots of "unusual shots", getting on the course late evening, and the comfort level from working on these shots is fantastic...

[TheCityGame]

@reason....i wasn't trying to start anything. No worries.

Mark M.... Interesting tip about looking at top of the flag. Sort of a visual version of using more energy.

[Millbrook]

TCG sorry for starting the pitching debate!

Try this, may seem wierd at first and certainly something to practice first.

Find a position where you can see the ball and the hole. Picture yourself playing the shot, see where the ball lands and rolls out. Repeat until you get the shot you want. It's as though you were watching a playing partner play the shot but in your minds eye it's you.
When you get the shot you want repeat it in your mind as though you were watching it on a TV screen.
Walk to the ball and repeat the playback on the TV screen in your head. When you come to play the shot mentally step into the picture/TV screen and repeat what you have seen in real time.

Seems longwinded but with practice it need take no more time than your usual prep.

If you try it let us know how it goes.

Regards

[pinhigh27]

Walk to where you can see the pin, rehearse swing you will make from your ball to have ball end up where you want. Walk to ball, swing that way and make the putt

[dblxpullhook]

My routine for this shot:
Walk up to the green, pick a landing area and gauge the yardage from the horizon relative from where you be hitting the shot from.
ie I need to land it 5 yards beyond what I see
Rehearse swing that I feel will produce that shot
Set up to the line I picked
Hit it and accept the results

[E401k]

Imagine the top of the flag is a bucket and try to land the ball in the bucket.

You'll be surprised how high and hard you need to hit to get it there. Added benefit is it generally lands softer b/c you hit it higher so if you didn't see a down slope it won't kill you.

[TheCityGame]

I actually had a chance yesterday to hit a few practice shots around an "almost blind" green, and had the opportunity to hit a couple on the course.

I really like this "top of the stick" or "bucket" idea. Very comfortable visualization tool for me.

Not that the other ones are any worse, but it's the kind of tip that I think will help with a little practice. Just the kind of thing I was looking for.

[E401k]

Good luck, like you I play much better with mental pictures than I do with mechanical ideas

[dlam]

I play at a relatively flat home course but there is a couple of greens that have very steep embankment that are 10-15 feet upward it missed long. So if I end up there I see the bank of the fringe and almost no green. I usually have to to spot the flag and just see top of flagstick . And most times I can use the flag as a reference I like to choose a LW and flop/lob to the flagstick.
The other option I have done is to just pick a spot on the the bank and try to punch the ball to hit the bank and kill the momentum and hope the ball rolls to the pin I would do this if I had a downhill lie otherwise I like the lob

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

To me it all comes down to taking your medicine and making sure you get on the green. You have to be mentally tough enough to accept your situation and play the percentages. Looking at the top of the pin is great advice if you are not short sided and have no green to work with. A shot to the fattest part of the green is your best bet. Down from there in 1 or 2.

[E401k]

Ok if you're short sided the basket vision might not be enough so you need to amend your technique...

Open the face so the leading edge is at least the thickness of a nicklr off the ground. Place the hands just ahead of the ball, now try and hit it fat! You may be shocked how high soft and short the ball ends up.

[Ajlepisto]

If you hit the same shot 10 times in a row without looking at where it's landing each time, then walk up at the end and look, where are they? All short, or all long?

If short. Grab one more club. If long, take less.

It's super simple...just gotta figure out what's your natural tendency and learn to deal and adjust.