Ryder Cup: The Greatest Golfer Ever

[Gem]

[quote name='king_biscuit' timestamp='1411406508' post='10163021']
[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411405791' post='10162937']
I wonder if Monty would trade his Ryder Cup successes for just one major.
[/quote]

LOL, no need to wonder about that. I'll bet he would for any US PGA Tour win, much less a major.
[/quote]

Don't be silly. I don't think would swap anything from the Ryder Cup for even a Major.
They are both completely different events and should be treated as such.

[Gem]

[quote name='king_biscuit' timestamp='1411435296' post='10166085']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1411411058' post='10163629']
[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411405791' post='10162937']
I wonder if Monty would trade his Ryder Cup successes for just one major.
[/quote]

What strikes me is how Monty and Poulter can just crush it in the RC but can't/couldn't get it done in Majors. The top 3 RC players, per this piece, have 1 major between them all (Tom Kite, US Open).

Why is that?
[/quote]

The difference in Poulter and Montgomery is that Montgomery had a very successful European Tour career in an era when the European Tour meant something and had top 10 guys playing week in and out. No comparison between the two. Btw., Montgomery has a pretty impressive major record to not have a win. Poulter is a filler journeyman who is not a great player by Tour standards and he never will be.
[/quote]

I agree with you here. Monty was pretty close and unlucky a few times. Played awsome at Riviera hitting 69/72 GIR and birdied the last three holes in regulation play only to lose to a birdie from Elkington.

Monty was amazing in the RC but as you said he was right up there in regular events as well. Poulter raises his game well above his week to week level which makes his 80% win record all the more amazing.
It shows the power of positive thinking mentioned by Moe Norman in another thread.

[imakaveli]

[quote name='king_biscuit' timestamp='1411435296' post='10166085']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1411411058' post='10163629']
[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411405791' post='10162937']
I wonder if Monty would trade his Ryder Cup successes for just one major.
[/quote]

What strikes me is how Monty and Poulter can just crush it in the RC but can't/couldn't get it done in Majors. The top 3 RC players, per this piece, have 1 major between them all (Tom Kite, US Open).

Why is that?
[/quote]

The difference in Poulter and Montgomery is that Montgomery had a very successful European Tour career in an era when the European Tour meant something and had top 10 guys playing week in and out. No comparison between the two. Btw., Montgomery has a pretty impressive major record to not have a win. Poulter is a filler journeyman who is not a great player by Tour standards and he never will be.
[/quote]

Do you have any idea of what a journeyman is? Poulter won 2 WGCs, and has 12 European Tour wins please stop.

[Lennon Mccartney]

[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411482964' post='10168691']
[quote name='king_biscuit' timestamp='1411435296' post='10166085']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1411411058' post='10163629']
[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411405791' post='10162937']
I wonder if Monty would trade his Ryder Cup successes for just one major.
[/quote]

What strikes me is how Monty and Poulter can just crush it in the RC but can't/couldn't get it done in Majors. The top 3 RC players, per this piece, have 1 major between them all (Tom Kite, US Open).

Why is that?
[/quote]

The difference in Poulter and Montgomery is that Montgomery had a very successful European Tour career in an era when the European Tour meant something and had top 10 guys playing week in and out. No comparison between the two. Btw., Montgomery has a pretty impressive major record to not have a win. Poulter is a filler journeyman who is not a great player by Tour standards and he never will be.
[/quote]

Do you have any idea of what a journeyman is? Poulter won 2 WGCs, and has 12 European Tour wins please stop.
[/quote]
I find it interesting that Ian Poulter has never won a stroke play tournament in America. That says a lot. I understand he shows up every two years for an exhibition match. But i guess thats what separates the greats from the journeymen who just collect the checks.

[imakaveli]

[quote name='Lennon Mccartney' timestamp='1411493335' post='10169751']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411482964' post='10168691']
[quote name='king_biscuit' timestamp='1411435296' post='10166085']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1411411058' post='10163629']
[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411405791' post='10162937']
I wonder if Monty would trade his Ryder Cup successes for just one major.
[/quote]

What strikes me is how Monty and Poulter can just crush it in the RC but can't/couldn't get it done in Majors. The top 3 RC players, per this piece, have 1 major between them all (Tom Kite, US Open).

Why is that?
[/quote]

The difference in Poulter and Montgomery is that Montgomery had a very successful European Tour career in an era when the European Tour meant something and had top 10 guys playing week in and out. No comparison between the two. Btw., Montgomery has a pretty impressive major record to not have a win. Poulter is a filler journeyman who is not a great player by Tour standards and he never will be.
[/quote]

Do you have any idea of what a journeyman is? Poulter won 2 WGCs, and has 12 European Tour wins please stop.
[/quote]
I find it interesting that Ian Poulter has never won a stroke play tournament in America. That says a lot. I understand he shows up every two years for an exhibition match. But i guess thats what separates the greats from the journeymen who just collect the checks.
[/quote]

haters gonna hate

[mjtoal]

Monty was, and is, a great golfer. He could have, should have, won majors, but sometimes it just doesn't happen. Ironically, the number 2 player on that list of Ryder Cup performers, Tom Kite, only won one major despite being a consistent winner, and the one he won was the very same major that Jack Nicklaus congratulated Monty (prematurely) on winning.

[SwooshLT]

Monty's Order of Merit record is far more impressive than a silly Country vs CONTINENT event

[cardoustie]

Monty was a savage beast in Ryder Cup play.

Plus, he's a great interview and the US fans loved calling him Mrs. Doubtfire.

[monkeynaut]

[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411482964' post='10168691']
Do you have any idea of what a journeyman is? Poulter won 2 WGCs, and has 12 European Tour wins please stop.
[/quote]
Just for kicks, If we were to google journeyman...

[quote]Journeyman
[size=3]Profession[/size][list=1]
[*]

A journeyman is an individual who has completed an apprenticeship and is fully educated in a trade or craft, but not yet a master.
[/list]
[/quote]
Hmm. Checking the list of Masters Champions. Nope. No Poulter.
In the interest of fairness checking for all Majors. Nope. No Poulter.

It would appear by definition, he is a journeyman.

[imakaveli]

[quote name='monkeynaut' timestamp='1411500580' post='10170461']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411482964' post='10168691']
Do you have any idea of what a journeyman is? Poulter won 2 WGCs, and has 12 European Tour wins please stop.
[/quote]
Just for kicks, If we were to google journeyman...

[quote]Journeyman
[size=3]Profession[/size][list=1]
[*]

A journeyman is an individual who has completed an apprenticeship and is fully educated in a trade or craft, but not yet a master.
[/list]
[/quote]
Hmm. Checking the list of Masters Champions. Nope. No Poulter.
In the interest of fairness checking for all Majors. Nope. No Poulter.

It would appear by definition, he is a journeyman.
[/quote]

Oh that's smart! So Els is a journeyman too! Please...

[avrag]

[quote name='monkeynaut' timestamp='1411500580' post='10170461']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411482964' post='10168691']
Do you have any idea of what a journeyman is? Poulter won 2 WGCs, and has 12 European Tour wins please stop.
[/quote]
Just for kicks, If we were to google journeyman...

[quote]Journeyman
[size=3]Profession[/size][list=1]
[*]

A journeyman is an individual who has completed an apprenticeship and is fully educated in a trade or craft, but not yet a master.
[/list]
[/quote]
Hmm. Checking the list of Masters Champions. Nope. No Poulter.
In the interest of fairness checking for all Majors. Nope. No Poulter.

It would appear by definition, he is a journeyman.
[/quote]

"Journeymen":
Kuchar, D.Johnson, Fowler, Stenson, Stricker, according to your definition.

Curtis, Hamilton, Weir, Immelman, North, Beem, Micheel, according to my definition.

[ebk]

I guess those number crunchers never heard of Billy Casper.

[zonadub]

[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411427575' post='10165457']

I think that asterisks are used only to downplay some players some people don't like. If you focus enough you can find asterisks in each and every tournament

[/quote]

Thread drift ... Like Roger Maris getting an asterisk for 61 home runs (because Babe Ruth was a hero, as was Mickey Mantle, while Maris was the anti-hero and Commissioner Ford Frick did not want to demote The Babe) and steroid-enhanced Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa did not when Maris' record was finally broken?

[imakaveli]

[quote name='zonadub' timestamp='1411514752' post='10171681']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411427575' post='10165457']
I think that asterisks are used only to downplay some players some people don't like. If you focus enough you can find asterisks in each and every tournament

[/quote]

Thread drift ... Like Roger Maris getting an asterisk for 61 home runs (because Babe Ruth was a hero, as was Mickey Mantle, while Maris was the anti-hero and Commissioner Ford Frick did not want to demote The Babe) and steroid-enhanced Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa did not when Maris' record was finally broken?
[/quote]

If you ask me, I have no idea who are these people

And asterisks for cheating are another story

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='zonadub' timestamp='1411514752' post='10171681']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411427575' post='10165457']

I think that asterisks are used only to downplay some players some people don't like. If you focus enough you can find asterisks in each and every tournament

[/quote]

Thread drift ... Like Roger Maris getting an asterisk for 61 home runs (because Babe Ruth was a hero, as was Mickey Mantle, while Maris was the anti-hero and Commissioner Ford Frick did not want to demote The Babe) and steroid-enhanced Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa did not when Maris' record was finally broken?
[/quote]

Off the top of my head.

Babe Ruth hit 60 HR in 154 games.

Maris hit 61 HR in 162 games.

Big boy,

http://youtu.be/1vet779K4d0

[mattsuth87]

Reading This thread is like watching a slow motion car crash

[mwkbmw]

[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411481738' post='10168515']
[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411477862' post='10168129']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411417484' post='10164437']
[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411405791' post='10162937']
I wonder if Monty would trade his Ryder Cup successes for just one major.
[/quote]

I wonder if Todd Hamilton (who?) would trade his random Major for an hall of fame career.
Anyway, thank you for having brought this constructive argument in this thread. We should discuss if it's the Open or British Open now.
[/quote]

No where in my post did I mention that Monty would trade his entire career for a lone major. I simply wonder if he would be more satisfied with a mediocre, or even poor Ryder Cup record in exchange for a major championship.

Anyway, thank you for bringing your snide comment to the thread along with your lack of reading comprehension.
[/quote]

I have never seen on this board a comparison between Majors and Ryder Cup which wasn't either trolling or cheap ways to downplay the Ryder Cup (or a player you don't like). Yours must be a genuine question then. Still, why in this thread which is about the greatest Ryder Cup players?
[/quote]

It was a genuine question. I usually do not troll [i]intentionally[/i]. The reason I posted it in this thread is because Monty [i]is[/i] absolutely one of the greatest Ryder Cup players ever. I have always respected his game and have often been quite annoyed and disappointed by the heckling he received from ignorant American fans. I am a fan of his TV commentary, as well. So, in no way was I intending to cheapen his accomplishments or the Ryder Cup competition, which I love, (despite the trouncing we have been taking lately).

I can understand the enormous pride Monty must have in his Ryder Cup accomplishments, but, I can reasonably assume that his close calls and ultimate failures in the majors must gnaw at him from time to time, (and probably will for the rest of his life). Given his love for and pride in the Ryder Cup, I was simply wondering, (out loud, if you will), if he would trade his success in that arena for a major championship trophy on his mantle.

There was no insult intended.

[Jim Clark]

I believe Monty is the only player elected to the Golf Hall of Fame who didn't have a "Major" (a requirement). It was deserved and the proper thing to do. Faldo once said that the rules shouldn't be changed for Monty. I've always thought of him as "sir dick" since that comment.

[imakaveli]

[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411568219' post='10174689']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411481738' post='10168515']
[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411477862' post='10168129']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1411417484' post='10164437']
[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411405791' post='10162937']
I wonder if Monty would trade his Ryder Cup successes for just one major.
[/quote]

I wonder if Todd Hamilton (who?) would trade his random Major for an hall of fame career.
Anyway, thank you for having brought this constructive argument in this thread. We should discuss if it's the Open or British Open now.
[/quote]

No where in my post did I mention that Monty would trade his entire career for a lone major. I simply wonder if he would be more satisfied with a mediocre, or even poor Ryder Cup record in exchange for a major championship.

Anyway, thank you for bringing your snide comment to the thread along with your lack of reading comprehension.
[/quote]

I have never seen on this board a comparison between Majors and Ryder Cup which wasn't either trolling or cheap ways to downplay the Ryder Cup (or a player you don't like). Yours must be a genuine question then. Still, why in this thread which is about the greatest Ryder Cup players?
[/quote]

It was a genuine question. I usually do not troll [i]intentionally[/i]. The reason I posted it in this thread is because Monty [i]is[/i] absolutely one of the greatest Ryder Cup players ever. I have always respected his game and have often been quite annoyed and disappointed by the heckling he received from ignorant American fans. I am a fan of his TV commentary, as well. So, in no way was I intending to cheapen his accomplishments or the Ryder Cup competition, which I love, (despite the trouncing we have been taking lately).

I can understand the enormous pride Monty must have in his Ryder Cup accomplishments, but, I can reasonably assume that his close calls and ultimate failures in the majors must gnaw at him from time to time, (and probably will for the rest of his life). Given his love for and pride in the Ryder Cup, I was simply wondering, (out loud, if you will), if he would trade his success in that arena for a major championship trophy on his mantle.

There was no insult intended.
[/quote]

Ok, so I intended your comment in the wrong way then, cheers!

[J - Mo]

I don't know who the greatest was, lots of really good ones that flourished in this event.

However, I know who the most important was - no one even close to Seve in that aspect.

And this is coming from an American.

[KyleM14]

Calling Ian Poulter a journeyman or questioning Monty's deservedness of the hall of fame is just an attempt to marginalize spectacular golfers due to an incorrect understanding of American pride. My colors don't run either, and I root hard for the Stars and Stripes, but I feel no urge to marginalize a golfer's accomplishments to do it. I wish the euro team was full of poulter clones. Beat the best to BE the best.

[Dave230]

[quote name='lumberman2462' timestamp='1411435349' post='10166093']
Monty was tough. The 8 Orders of Merit are more impressive to me than his Ryder Cup record.

Amazing he didn't have success on this side of the pond.
[/quote]

He probably should have won one or two but you can't compare European golfers from then to those of today in reference to US Tour wins. Monty wasn't a member of the PGA Tour and only played a few times a year there outside the majors.

[Hakko]

[quote name='monkeynaut' timestamp='1411425996' post='10165335']
So, when people talk about pressure, they're paying lip service to the Ryder Cup. A major is way more pressure. If you don't believe that. Ask Colin Montgomery about the 98 US Open.
In a Major, Poulter can make all the bug eyes he wants, it doesn't affect a guy four groups behind him.
[/quote]

Shortly after Medinah, I asked Corey Pavin which was the greater pressure. No cameras, no reporters around, just a bunch of golfers. He said that it was Ryder Cup, hands down, no question.

[Dave230]

Look you can make the point either way, personally I think you'd feel more pressure in the Ryder Cup because the fate of your entire team is in your hands and the natural fear of letting everyone down is one of the strongest emotions you can get. Whereas if you mess up a major, yeah you will think of what might have been but essentially you were going for your own glory and it affected nobody else.

[mwkbmw]

[quote name='Hakko' timestamp='1411582832' post='10176297']
[quote name='monkeynaut' timestamp='1411425996' post='10165335']
So, when people talk about pressure, they're paying lip service to the Ryder Cup. A major is way more pressure. If you don't believe that. Ask Colin Montgomery about the 98 US Open.
In a Major, Poulter can make all the bug eyes he wants, it doesn't affect a guy four groups behind him.
[/quote]

Shortly after Medinah, I asked Corey Pavin which was the greater pressure. No cameras, no reporters around, just a bunch of golfers. He said that it was Ryder Cup, hands down, no question.
[/quote]

The Ryder Cup, and match play in general, is a different kind of pressure. The creator of the pressure is your opponent, who is right in front of you. In stroke play, a lot of the pressure comes from within yourself many times, especially when you are not in the last group and you are having to consider all of the "what-ifs" of the competitors behind you. In match play, you pretty much know where you stand after your opponent has played his shot. Before the shot, you should always expect them to do the miraculous, but after the shot, you know exactly what you need to do.

[playa]

Sergio, Poulter and Monty are all big time folders in majors but winners at RC. Don't think it necessarily says that pessure is higher in majors cause there are major winners who have folded in RC (Furyk), just shows that RC is a different kind of pressure. I have no experience of big time golf in individual or teams but I think the difference is that majors requires you to stay calm and disciplined under prolonged intense pressure where RC is more about lifting your game and doing the spectacular in the big moments. IMO winning a major is a much bigger achievement, but performing in a RC would be a bigger buzz and something you would have fonder memories of.

[iBanesto]

[quote name='mwkbmw' timestamp='1411405791' post='10162937']
I wonder if Monty would trade his Ryder Cup successes for just one major.
[/quote]

I am pretty sure he has said "no" to that hypothetical situation.

[Apex93]

[quote name='ebk' timestamp='1411507166' post='10171149']
I guess those number crunchers never heard of Billy Casper.
[/quote]

Poor Billy Casper gets overlooked again. It's comical.
All time us Ryder cup points leader. Also #1 or t-1 in singles, foursomes, and four-ball. THATs a decent stat line...

[mjtoal]

[quote name='Apex93' timestamp='1411703150' post='10185985']
[quote name='ebk' timestamp='1411507166' post='10171149']
I guess those number crunchers never heard of Billy Casper.
[/quote]

Poor Billy Casper gets overlooked again. It's comical.
All time us Ryder cup points leader. Also #1 or t-1 in singles, foursomes, and four-ball. THATs a decent stat line...
[/quote]

But most of Casper's points came from the era when the US beat GB&I like a drum, few if any of the GB&I side ever got invited to the US majors, the PGA Tour was a closed shop, therefore his record is apples and oranges with current and recent players.

[Joe Rockhead]

Until all of Europe was added the Ryder Cup was a big mismatch.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t8xwpW8gJQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t8xwpW8gJQ[/url]