Hcp in Profile would make GWRX more valuable to all members

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1412007872' post='10205941']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412006849' post='10205807']
[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1412003943' post='10205515']
[/quote]

I don't think that's weird. It makes perfect sense to me. The whole point of slope basically is to differentiate how difficult the course would be for a bogey golfer, so it's essentially outlining things that would make it more difficult for a bogey golfer than a good one. Because of this, when someone is a very good golfer (let's say anything +),[b] a course with the same rating but a higher slope is easier than one with a lower slope for good golfers[/b], because those difficulties outlined in the slope rating don't really apply to good golfers by nature.
[/quote]
Sorry, but you can't take a course that is sloped at 113, add sand/water/rough to it to make it more difficult for a bogey golfer and then say that it is magically "easier" for plus golfers.

The obstacles might not make it as hard relatively for a good golfer, but that's not what the math is saying. It's saying those courses literally become EASIER for a good golfer. It's nonsense.

But, I'm not re-hashing the whole argument here. It's all there in the other thread. . .the math, the examples.
[/quote]

It's not magically easier, it's just relatively easier. If you throw in a 230 yd forced carry, that's going to change the rating for bogey golfers because under the USGA definition, a lot of them would struggle with even carrying it, versus it's never a factor for me and I might not even notice it at all. There's different factors that make courses difficult for +3 golfers than an 18. A lot of things that they worry about don't even pop into my head, and conversely a lot of things that I worry about, don't ever pop into theirs.

[kekoa]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1411871739' post='10197529']
My handicap is beef. Any beef questions I'm here to help.
[/quote]

This is the only post on this thread I can acutally relate to. All this +3-10 talk boggles my mind.

[TheCityGame]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412010090' post='10206235']
[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1412007872' post='10205941']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412006849' post='10205807']
[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1412003943' post='10205515']
[/quote]

I don't think that's weird. It makes perfect sense to me. The whole point of slope basically is to differentiate how difficult the course would be for a bogey golfer, so it's essentially outlining things that would make it more difficult for a bogey golfer than a good one. Because of this, when someone is a very good golfer (let's say anything +),[b] a course with the same rating but a higher slope is easier than one with a lower slope for good golfers[/b], because those difficulties outlined in the slope rating don't really apply to good golfers by nature.
[/quote]
Sorry, but you can't take a course that is sloped at 113, add sand/water/rough to it to make it more difficult for a bogey golfer and then say that it is magically "easier" for plus golfers.

The obstacles might not make it as hard relatively for a good golfer, but that's not what the math is saying. It's saying those courses literally become EASIER for a good golfer. It's nonsense.

But, I'm not re-hashing the whole argument here. It's all there in the other thread. . .the math, the examples.
[/quote]

It's not magically easier, it's just relatively easier.
[/quote]That's the intent. But that's not what the calculations say. Are you Ty Webb from the other thread under a different name?

The calculations say that a guy who shoots 67 at a 72/113 has to give MORE strokes to scratch golfer than a guy who shoots 67 at a 72/150. (by "shoots", I mean "best 10 out of last 20") If you put them on another course with a 113 slope against a scratch golfer, the first guy would have to give the scratch golfer 5 strokes. The second guy would have to give the scratch golfer 4 strokes.

THIS IS INCONTROVERTIBLE. THIS IS A FACT. This is addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. That's it.

That is, the handicap system says the first guy is a better golfer than the second guy.

This was all hashed out in the other thread.

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1412010976' post='10206355']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412010090' post='10206235']
[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1412007872' post='10205941']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412006849' post='10205807']
[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1412003943' post='10205515']
[/quote]

I don't think that's weird. It makes perfect sense to me. The whole point of slope basically is to differentiate how difficult the course would be for a bogey golfer, so it's essentially outlining things that would make it more difficult for a bogey golfer than a good one. Because of this, when someone is a very good golfer (let's say anything +),[b] a course with the same rating but a higher slope is easier than one with a lower slope for good golfers[/b], because those difficulties outlined in the slope rating don't really apply to good golfers by nature.
[/quote]
Sorry, but you can't take a course that is sloped at 113, add sand/water/rough to it to make it more difficult for a bogey golfer and then say that it is magically "easier" for plus golfers.

The obstacles might not make it as hard relatively for a good golfer, but that's not what the math is saying. It's saying those courses literally become EASIER for a good golfer. It's nonsense.

But, I'm not re-hashing the whole argument here. It's all there in the other thread. . .the math, the examples.
[/quote]

It's not magically easier, it's just relatively easier.
[/quote]That's the intent. But that's not what the calculations say. Are you Ty Webb from the other thread under a different name?

The calculations say that a guy who shoots 67 at a 72/113 has to give MORE strokes to scratch golfer than a guy who shoots 67 at a 72/150. (by "shoots", I mean "best 10 out of last 20") If you put them on another course with a 113 slope against a scratch golfer, the first guy would have to give the scratch golfer 5 strokes. The second guy would have to give the scratch golfer 4 strokes.

THIS IS INCONTROVERTIBLE. THIS IS A FACT. This is addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. That's it.

That is, the handicap system says the first guy is a better golfer than the second guy.

This was all hashed out in the other thread.
[/quote]

I know. I'm not debating that. He would be a better golfer. I don't think you understand what the purpose of slope is.

[TheCityGame]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412013266' post='10206645']
I know. I'm not debating that. He would be a better golfer. I don't think you understand what the purpose of slope is.
[/quote]I understand perfectly well what the purpose of slope is.

I understand why it works on the "normal" side of scratch and why it fails on the "plus" side of scratch. That seems to be twice the level of your understanding.

[JMHunter]

[quote name='RRFireblade' timestamp='1411829711' post='10194353']
Any idiot can put +6 in there though.
[/quote]

True....sandbagger. :-)

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='TheCityGame' timestamp='1412014466' post='10206809']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1412013266' post='10206645']
I know. I'm not debating that. He would be a better golfer. I don't think you understand what the purpose of slope is.
[/quote]I understand perfectly well what the purpose of slope is.

I understand why it works on the "normal" side of scratch and why it fails on the "plus" side of scratch. That seems to be twice the level of your understanding.
[/quote]

it doesn't fail though. A course that is harder for a bogey golfer but still has the same rating for a scratch golfer is going to of course be even easier for a +4 golfer than one that is equally difficult relatively for scratch golfers and bogey golfers. I don't see what you don't understand about that.

A course can have many different ways of being difficult. If it has predominately ways that only make it difficult for bogey golfers, it's not surprising a player that is good wouldn't be susceptible to these. As the things that a scratch player is susceptible become more prevalent in relative frequency (ie the difference decreases), it's clearly more likely that they would encounter trouble along all skill ranges.

Thats the whole point. When you have a big difference, only small ranges of players are susceptible to the innate aspects of the course that make it difficult. When you have a smaller difference, there's a wider range exposed to those aspects, making it harder.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='JMHunter' timestamp='1412028525' post='10208133']
[quote name='RRFireblade' timestamp='1411829711' post='10194353']
Any idiot can put +6 in there though.
[/quote]

True....sandbagger. :-)
[/quote]

That's was freaking hysterical. LOL

[Snufles]

[quote name='mr_divots' timestamp='1412006556' post='10205785']
It's too frustrating having people who play 20-30 strokes higher than you trying to tell you that you're wrong. LOL!

I've often asked why if people know so much why their handicaps aren't lower. They're the first to issue excuse after excuse about their games. And they rarely listen to those who figured it out enough to play to a level where they claim to want to play. Hmmmm.....

Like most things: too much talk, not enough listening.
[/quote]

You are painting high handicappers with too broad a paintbrush!

Does this mean that we should no longer listen to iTeach once his HC starts to rise due to age?

What about the argument between Chamble Mouth and Noblio? Both would have decent HCs but have a completely different view of the golf swing. Which one would you listen too?

Their are probably many high HCs, on this board, that will soak up all kinds of info related to the golf swing but just don't have the physical ability to put it into their own swing.

2 best bits of advice I ever received were, loft is your friend and draw left - cut right (referring to which side of the tee box to tee off from). As for swing advice, it just isn't polite to give that sort of advice while playing a round. If someone does try to give you swing advice during a round, that is the red flag that something ain't right with the guy.

[geek4golf]

I play with a guy who is around a 20 handicap. The reason he is a 20 handicap is his long game is terrible (back issues). On the other hand he is magic 100 yards and in including putting. Just usually takes him several shots to get within 100 yards. Anyway I'm sure he has more to offer on shortgame than most, yet his handicap would not represent that. Just another high handicap dummy giving his two cents..

[Dinosaur]

[quote name='geek4golf' timestamp='1412032709' post='10208511']
I play with a guy who is around a 20 handicap. The reason he is a 20 handicap is his long game is terrible (back issues). On the other hand he is magic 100 yards and in including putting. Just usually takes him several shots to get within 100 yards. Anyway I'm sure he has more to offer on shortgame than most, yet his handicap would not represent that. Just another high handicap dummy giving his two cents..
[/quote]

I can relate somewhat...last time out I scored 41/44 and only hit one green in regulation, had two really good sand saves and a ton of one putts. Drives were short and errant. Hence the old saying "Don't ask how, just ask how many". I really felt good about the sand saves as that is usually my nemesis, but thanks to Gary Player, I remembered a couple of things and wouldn't you know it? they worked. My current index is 18.6

[RRFireblade]

[quote name='JMHunter' timestamp='1412028525' post='10208133']
[quote name='RRFireblade' timestamp='1411829711' post='10194353']
Any idiot can put +6 in there though.
[/quote]

True....sandbagger. :-)
[/quote]

I told you to stop listening to those guys, they're just pissed I took all thier money last time.

[Kiwi2]

I play with a guy who is around a 20 handicap. The reason he is a 20 handicap is his long game is terrible (back issues). On the other hand he is magic 100 yards and in including putting. Just usually takes him several shots to get within 100 yards. Anyway I'm sure he has more to offer on shortgame than most, yet his handicap would not represent that. Just another high handicap dummy giving his two cents.. :cheesy:

 

I can relate somewhat...last time out I scored 41/44 and only hit one green in regulation, had two really good sand saves and a ton of one putts. Drives were short and errant. Hence the old saying "Don't ask how, just ask how many". I really felt good about the sand saves as that is usually my nemesis, but thanks to Gary Player, I remembered a couple of things and wouldn't you know it? they worked. My current index is 18.6

 

Are you sure about that Dino. Earlier in this thread you said

 

"I do not have an official handicap as it would serve no purpose since I really do not compete, nor am I a member of any club. I do have my own home made handicap spread sheet which works very well, and I maintain it honestly and accurately but only as a means of tracking my progress at various courses."

 

I remember when for a week you showed your handicap as 14.6 in your Avatar. At the same time you were displaying your index (Hacker James) as 18.9 on another forum.

 

[Dinosaur]

I play with a guy who is around a 20 handicap. The reason he is a 20 handicap is his long game is terrible (back issues). On the other hand he is magic 100 yards and in including putting. Just usually takes him several shots to get within 100 yards. Anyway I'm sure he has more to offer on shortgame than most, yet his handicap would not represent that. Just another high handicap dummy giving his two cents.. :cheesy:

 

I can relate somewhat...last time out I scored 41/44 and only hit one green in regulation, had two really good sand saves and a ton of one putts. Drives were short and errant. Hence the old saying "Don't ask how, just ask how many". I really felt good about the sand saves as that is usually my nemesis, but thanks to Gary Player, I remembered a couple of things and wouldn't you know it? they worked. My current index is 18.6

 

Are you sure about that Dino. Earlier in this thread you said

 

"I do not have an official handicap as it would serve no purpose since I really do not compete, nor am I a member of any club. I do have my own home made handicap spread sheet which works very well, and I maintain it honestly and accurately but only as a means of tracking my progress at various courses."

 

I remember when for a week you showed your handicap as 14.6 in your Avatar. At the same time you were displaying your index (Hacker James) as 18.9 on another forum.

 

 

It was much longer than a week ago. I had a round of 78 which would have brought my handicap down but I thought it a fluke so I took that round out as you would have known as there was some discussion about it and a few said that I should have let it stand. As to when I may have changed it on an avatar, I have no idea as its not important. As for the other forum, I have not posted on there in many months. Not that I feel obligated to explain to you,but it would seem you are so interested I thought I would indulge you this one time. Or, if you are trying to discredit me, I really don't care and it is doubtful anyone else does. Apparently you must have missed a post or two of mine. Other than that.....Bite me.

[Sean2]

I'm surprised a Velociraptor would even care. :-)

[Sean2]

ps: I shot a 74 yesterday and my wife STILL won't listen to me.

[Dinosaur]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1412052878' post='10210375']
I'm surprised a Velociraptor would even care. :-)
[/quote]


[i]He doesn't. [/i]

[Kiwi2]

[quote name='Dinosaur' timestamp='1412053215' post='10210389']

It was much longer than a week ago. I had a round of 78 which would have brought my handicap down but I thought it a fluke so I took that round out as you would have known as there was some discussion about it and a few said that I should have let it stand. As to when I may have changed it on an avatar, I have no idea as its not important. [b]As for the other forum, I have not posted on there in many months[/b]. Not that I feel obligated to explain to you,but it would seem you are so interested I thought I would indulge you this one time. Or, if you are trying to discredit me, I really don't care and it is doubtful anyone else does. Apparently you must have missed a post or two of mine. Other than that.....Bite me.
[/quote]

That may be true Dino but:

You were active on that forum when you posted your so called 14.6. (I checked the date of your last visit at the time because I wondered about your posted handicap here and you had visited the day I looked.) It is important because it wasn't the truth. You have said you don't have an official handicap. If you don't have one of those you don't have a handicap.

[Dinosaur]

[quote name='Kiwi2' timestamp='1412054241' post='10210423']
[quote name='Dinosaur' timestamp='1412053215' post='10210389']
It was much longer than a week ago. I had a round of 78 which would have brought my handicap down but I thought it a fluke so I took that round out as you would have known as there was some discussion about it and a few said that I should have let it stand. As to when I may have changed it on an avatar, I have no idea as its not important. [b]As for the other forum, I have not posted on there in many months[/b]. Not that I feel obligated to explain to you,but it would seem you are so interested I thought I would indulge you this one time. Or, if you are trying to discredit me, I really don't care and it is doubtful anyone else does. Apparently you must have missed a post or two of mine. Other than that.....Bite me.
[/quote]

That may be true Dino but:

You were active on that forum when you posted your so called 14.6. (I checked the date of your last visit at the time because I wondered about your posted handicap here and you had visited the day I looked.) It is important because it wasn't the truth. You have said you don't have an official handicap. If you don't have one of those you don't have a handicap.
[/quote]

I may have visited,(not posted) for looking up something relative to another member here who shares a couple of experiences there with me. In fact, I was surprised I was even there given I was permanently banned about a year ago (not sure of exact month and not important to even bother looking). You seem to want to call me a liar, I really do not care. As for avatars and such, the mods on the other forum even changed mine out of spite. You are right, I do not have an official handicap as I already stated. I would suggest you find somebody else to be fascinated by. If anybody wants to know why I was banned, they can send me a PM. Probably because I referred to the admin as "A pathetic little man, who can not handle anyone disagreeing with him, not even his mistakenly called supporters" or words to that effect.

Now, I really do not think the rest of the subscribers on this forum want to hear about any problems you have with me. Your attempt at publicly attempting to discredit me only speak to your lack of character. I will simply ignore your rants.

[rbhan12]

I've updated mine!

[Dinosaur]

"acute epidermal atrophy"

[1t2golf]

Clean up on aisle 5 completed.

Keep posts on topic. Stop with the personal attacks.

Thanks.

[Dinosaur]

[quote name='1t2golf' timestamp='1412056464' post='10210493']
Clean up on aisle 5 completed.

Keep posts on topic. Stop with the personal attacks.

Thanks.
[/quote]

Thank You!

[vaterman]

To me hcp's along with a poster helps me put what is written in context. For example what a 2 hcp calls high handicapper may not be the same as what a 30 hcp calls high hcp.
Or when someone calls a driver very forgiving and he is scratch is not the same to me as to a 15 hcp calling a driver forgiving. Or it it can be a thread where OP descibes a huge problem with the angle of left hip at impact and he is a +2. The advices he gets can be very correct but for me as a high hcp I should concentrate more on not overswinging.

A good advice may be just as legit comming from a 25 as if it was comming from a 6. Any datum to me stands on it own no matter WHO puts it Down but it is helpfull to be able to put it into context.

Why anyone would write a wrong hcp on a forum is beyond me.

[Dinosaur]

[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1412075279' post='10210793']
To me hcp's along with a poster helps me put what is written in context. For example what a 2 hcp calls high handicapper may not be the same as what a 30 hcp calls high hcp.
Or when someone calls a driver very forgiving and he is scratch is not the same to me as to a 15 hcp calling a driver forgiving. Or it it can be a thread where OP descibes a huge problem with the angle of left hip at impact and he is a +2. The advices he gets can be very correct but for me as a high hcp I should concentrate more on not overswinging.

A good advice may be just as legit comming from a 25 as if it was comming from a 6. Any datum to me stands on it own no matter WHO puts it Down but it is helpfull to be able to put it into context.

Why anyone would write a wrong hcp on a forum is beyond me.
[/quote]

I would have to agree with you there. You have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff; and there is a LOT of chaff these days. The only time I have posted an incorrect HC is when I failed to update it, regardless of what some misinformed zealot might say. The so called high handicapper might well have a lot to add owing to his/her own trials and tribulations. Also they might be very adept at comprehending, or explaining in a way that is easily understood, but for many reasons may not be able to execute. The same has been said of a lot of teaching pros, they are very good at what they do, but they do not compete on the tour. Then there are those who often hold themselves out to be knowledgeable, taking opportunities to critique swings, drawing in all the plane lines and angles, yet have no teaching credentials whatsoever (not that having said credentials means a whole lot).

as for somebody to intentionally write down an incorrect handicap on a forum, it is indeed meaningless. Vanity Cappers I suppose. Not a whole lot different than high school kids' "locker room comparisons". So that even if you believe knowing what a person's stated handicap is, it really tells you nothing as to the validity of what they are saying, but after awhile you just know who is blowing smoke and who is not." 'sides, if you heard it on the internet, then it MUST be true".