Rules and Tournaments.

[sui generis]

[quote name='tsmithers' timestamp='1424287773' post='10979471']
[quote name='cardoustie' timestamp='1424286815' post='10979371']
except that it is [b]nearest point of relief [/b]and then ONE club (you may use driver or even long putter if you carry)
[/quote]

Can you explain "nearest point of relief" for GUR and unplayable?
[/quote]

See if you can watch this USGA video;

http://usga-rules.com/NPR/

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1424288104' post='10979515']
Lots of great advice thus far. The only thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is clearly and consistently marking your balls, making sure you announce what brand, number, and mark you're using on the first tee (and memorizing what everyone else is using), and letting whoever you're playing with know if you're making a change later on to a different brand/number/mark. Getting all that out of the way up front saves rule hassles later on.

For me, it's a ProV1x, either number 2 or 3, with one blue dot on the upper right hand side of the number.
[/quote]

Just to be clear, while the above is certainly sound advice, and I follow it myself, there is no Rule requiring you to mark your ball or announce its brand, etc. The virtue of doing so is that you can "prove", if called upon to do so, that the ball is yours. (You might easily go through many rounds without being challenged. But in any case it can't hurt to mark the ball so in any circumstance you, and possibly an opponent or fellow competitor or marker, or a Ref, will know for sure.

[Mr. Bean]

[quote name='cardoustie' timestamp='1424276694' post='10978117']

- you cannot play a provisional for a shot you think went in a hazard

[/quote]

Ok, now we are getting serious.

If you 'think' your ball ended in a water hazard it does not mean anything from Rules point of view. Thus you may play a provisional even if you 'think' your ball ended in a WH. It is only when you 'know or are virtually certain' that your ball ended in a WH you may [u]not[/u] play a provisional. In all other cases you may play a provisional.

This is important as distinguishing 'thinking' and 'knowing or being virtually certain' may save you a lot of strokes, or even save you from being disqualified from a stroke play competition.

[tsmithers]

[quote name='sui generis' timestamp='1424291445' post='10979847']
[quote name='tsmithers' timestamp='1424287773' post='10979471']
[quote name='cardoustie' timestamp='1424286815' post='10979371']
except that it is [b]nearest point of relief [/b]and then ONE club (you may use driver or even long putter if you carry)
[/quote]

Can you explain "nearest point of relief" for GUR and unplayable?
[/quote]

See if you can watch this USGA video;

[url="http://usga-rules.com/NPR/"]http://usga-rules.com/NPR/[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks. The video series is excellent.

[jmck]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1424291903' post='10979895']
[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1424288104' post='10979515']
Lots of great advice thus far. The only thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is clearly and consistently marking your balls, making sure you announce what brand, number, and mark you're using on the first tee (and memorizing what everyone else is using), and letting whoever you're playing with know if you're making a change later on to a different brand/number/mark. Getting all that out of the way up front saves rule hassles later on.

For me, it's a ProV1x, either number 2 or 3, with one blue dot on the upper right hand side of the number.
[/quote]

Just to be clear, while the above is certainly sound advice, and I follow it myself, there is no Rule requiring you to mark your ball or announce its brand, etc. The virtue of doing so is that you can "prove", if called upon to do so, that the ball is yours. (You might easily go through many rounds without being challenged. But in any case it can't hurt to mark the ball so in any circumstance you, and possibly an opponent or fellow competitor or marker, or a Ref, will know for sure.
[/quote]

Very true. I almost put in "while not a rule..." and in retrospect I should have. I also almost put in that if someone doesn't mark their ball and/or is a little reluctant to share what make/number/mark they're using, or is surprised to be asked, or appears to be ignorant of the custom of exchanging such information on the 1st tee, it makes me a little worried that either they a) have little to no tournament experience, or b) might have a tendency to miraculously "find" their ball no matter how deep the rough or offline the shot. Or maybe that's just me. I hate to sow the seeds of suspicion in a gentleman's game, especially when the OP was asking about playing more tournament golf for fun and leisure and whatnot, but that is sort of why I wanted to mention it's important to mark your ball and volunteer that information on the 1st tee--in addition to of course cutting down the chance of playing the wrong ball and then having to sort [i]that[/i] rule out later. Maybe it should be filed under the [i]un[/i]written rules for tournament play.

[sui generis]

[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1424297117' post='10980573']
[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1424291903' post='10979895']
[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1424288104' post='10979515']
Lots of great advice thus far. The only thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is clearly and consistently marking your balls, making sure you announce what brand, number, and mark you're using on the first tee (and memorizing what everyone else is using), and letting whoever you're playing with know if you're making a change later on to a different brand/number/mark. Getting all that out of the way up front saves rule hassles later on.

For me, it's a ProV1x, either number 2 or 3, with one blue dot on the upper right hand side of the number.
[/quote]

Just to be clear, while the above is certainly sound advice, and I follow it myself, there is no Rule requiring you to mark your ball or announce its brand, etc. The virtue of doing so is that you can "prove", if called upon to do so, that the ball is yours. (You might easily go through many rounds without being challenged. But in any case it can't hurt to mark the ball so in any circumstance you, and possibly an opponent or fellow competitor or marker, or a Ref, will know for sure.
[/quote]

Very true. I almost put in "while not a rule..." and in retrospect I should have. I also almost put in that if someone doesn't mark their ball and/or is a little reluctant to share what make/number/mark they're using, or is surprised to be asked, or appears to be ignorant of the custom of exchanging such information on the 1st tee, it makes me a little worried that either they a) have little to no tournament experience, or b) might have a tendency to miraculously "find" their ball no matter how deep the rough or offline the shot. Or maybe that's just me. I hate to sow the seeds of suspicion in a gentleman's game, especially when the OP was asking about playing more tournament golf for fun and leisure and whatnot, but that is sort of why I wanted to mention it's important to mark your ball and volunteer that information on the 1st tee--in addition to of course cutting down the chance of playing the wrong ball and then having to sort [i]that[/i] rule out later. Maybe it should be filed under the [i]un[/i]written rules for tournament play.
[/quote]

Last summer I was a starter at a NC MidAm Qualifier. The third to last thing that I say to the players is, "Please identify your golf ball markings to each other." This fellow says, "I'm the only one in the group playing a Bridgestone, so It's not marked." His fellow-competitors wore incredulous looks! I smiled (or maybe, scowled) and handed him a Sharpie. He chuckled and said, "Yes, sir."

[jmck]

^^^ There it is. The gentleman fell into (hopefully) category A, or (less charitably) category B.

[Cancun]

Little things that matter:

Make sure to be on your tee 10 minutes before your tee time. One word of caution: also make sure not to start before the tee time, unless someone from the Committee instructs you to do so.

Count your clubs… no more than 14 in your bag (you can’t have 15 and declare one “out of play” at the beginning).

Be aware not only about the Local Rules, but also the Conditions of the Competition, if there are any.

Make sure you never risk teeing your ball even remotely close to a spot that would invite anyone to argue that you were outside the teeing ground… it’s not a big difference if you tee 1 ft behind the front line, for example.

Learn NOT to talk about ANYTHING that might put you in risk of a breach of Rule 8 (advice). Don’t ask which club someone used, don’t ask where you should aim, don’t ask if the wind is in favor, don’t ask about the break of a put or the grain of the grass… or pretty much anything that has to do with the game. You may ask about distances and Rules (not your best option, but your options under the Rules, and you have to decide).

Just as you shouldn’t ask about the above… don’t say anything about it either.

In case of doubt, ASK for the help of a referee (if available). Otherwise, study and understand the procedure for Rule 3-3

The rest, I believe has been said: relief procedures… NPR…

Good luck!

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Cancun' timestamp='1424307383' post='10981649']
Little things that matter:

Make sure to be on your tee 10 minutes before your tee time. One word of caution: also make sure not to start before the tee time, unless someone from the Committee instructs you to do so.

Count your clubs… no more than 14 in your bag (you can’t have 15 and declare one “out of play” at the beginning).

Be aware not only about the Local Rules, but also the Conditions of the Competition, if there are any.

Make sure you never risk teeing your ball even remotely close to a spot that would invite anyone to argue that you were outside the teeing ground… it’s not a big difference if you tee 1 ft behind the front line, for example.

Learn NOT to talk about ANYTHING that might put you in risk of a breach of Rule 8 (advice). Don’t ask which club someone used, don’t ask where you should aim, don’t ask if the wind is in favor, don’t ask about the break of a put or the grain of the grass… or pretty much anything that has to do with the game. You may ask about distances and Rules (not your best option, but your options under the Rules, and you have to decide).

Just as you shouldn’t ask about the above… don’t say anything about it either.

In case of doubt, ASK for the help of a referee (if available). Otherwise, study and understand the procedure for Rule 3-3

The rest, I believe has been said: relief procedures… NPR…


Good luck!
[/quote]

Cancun, reading your post reminded me that it might be worth pointing out that a player is not even free to ask about things that are technically defined as "advice" from a Ref -- even though a Ref wouldn't/shouldn't answer. If he did, the violation would already be made.

[Imp]

It's best to only talk to your FCs if they ask about rules or general banter. Do not offer words of encouragement to someone having a bad day/round, lest you be made the reason for their ire.

--kC

[DaveLeeNC]

My personal perspective.

1) The best way to familiarize yourself with the RoG is the RoG.
2) The best way to learn to apply the RoG is to read examples
3) You should (in your case) always carry a rulebook and you MUST HAVE experience with #1 above just to learn how the rules are organized, how you might be surprised at where your answer is in the book (but it will make sense), etc.

How to go about #2? I would STRONGLY suggest this - READ THE DISCUSSIONS IN THIS FORUM! I can't imagine a better source of learning how to apply the rules of golf. Lots of wrong stuff (some from me) scattered about, but I would be shocked if anything 'really wrong' was not addressed.

dave

[HoffTTM]

[quote name='Cancun' timestamp='1424307383' post='10981649']
Little things that matter:

Make sure to be on your tee 10 minutes before your tee time. One word of caution: also make sure not to start before the tee time, unless someone from the Committee instructs you to do so.

Count your clubs… no more than 14 in your bag (you can’t have 15 and declare one “out of play” at the beginning).

Be aware not only about the Local Rules, but also the Conditions of the Competition, if there are any.

[b]Make sure you never risk teeing your ball even remotely close to a spot that would invite anyone to argue that you were outside the teeing ground… it’s not a big difference if you tee 1 ft behind the front line, for example.[/b]

Learn NOT to talk about ANYTHING that might put you in risk of a breach of Rule 8 (advice). Don’t ask which club someone used, don’t ask where you should aim,[b] don’t ask if the wind is in favor, don’t ask about the break of a put or the grain of the grass…[/b] or pretty much anything that has to do with the game. You may ask about distances and Rules (not your best option, but your options under the Rules, and you have to decide).

Just as you shouldn’t ask about the above… don’t say anything about it either.

In case of doubt, ASK for the help of a referee (if available). Otherwise, study and understand the procedure for Rule 3-3

The rest, I believe has been said: relief procedures… NPR…

Good luck!
[/quote]

I see those inadvertently broken all the time. Something like this "Oh god this putt I have left myself is ridiculously quick like its falling off a cliff" when one of the others in the group is in a similar spot.

Its just an unnecessary distraction once you have teed it up and then worry if its behind the markers or not. Invariably you will then pick it back up and make sure its behind which can upset your rhythm or slow the game down

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='HoffTTM' timestamp='1424350869' post='10983975']
[quote name='Cancun' timestamp='1424307383' post='10981649']
Little things that matter:

Make sure to be on your tee 10 minutes before your tee time. One word of caution: also make sure not to start before the tee time, unless someone from the Committee instructs you to do so.

Count your clubs… no more than 14 in your bag (you can’t have 15 and declare one “out of play” at the beginning).

Be aware not only about the Local Rules, but also the Conditions of the Competition, if there are any.

[b]Make sure you never risk teeing your ball even remotely close to a spot that would invite anyone to argue that you were outside the teeing ground… it’s not a big difference if you tee 1 ft behind the front line, for example.[/b]

Learn NOT to talk about ANYTHING that might put you in risk of a breach of Rule 8 (advice). Don’t ask which club someone used, don’t ask where you should aim,[b] don’t ask if the wind is in favor, don’t ask about the break of a put or the grain of the grass…[/b] or pretty much anything that has to do with the game. You may ask about distances and Rules (not your best option, but your options under the Rules, and you have to decide).

Just as you shouldn’t ask about the above… don’t say anything about it either.

In case of doubt, ASK for the help of a referee (if available). Otherwise, study and understand the procedure for Rule 3-3

The rest, I believe has been said: relief procedures… NPR…

Good luck!
[/quote]

I see those inadvertently broken all the time. Something like this "Oh god this putt I have left myself is ridiculously quick like its falling off a cliff" when one of the others in the group is in a similar spot.


[/quote]

I agree that one shouldn't say something like that in order to be safe, but I believe it would only be a penalty if the intention was to advise the fellow competitor. If the intention was to simply rid oneself of tension (talking to yourself) before the putt it wouldn't be a penalty. A tough judgement to make, I know, so better to keep quiet.

(I took a quick look for a decision supporting my contention above, but I didn't find one. Nevertheless I believe I'm correct.)

[Mr. Bean]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1424358519' post='10984555']

(I took a quick look for [b]a decision supporting my contention above[/b], but I didn't find one. Nevertheless I believe I'm correct.)
[/quote]

[color=#ff0000]D8-1/8:[/color]

[color=#ff0000]Q. After playing a stroke, a player says: “I should have used a 5‑iron.” Was[/color]
[color=#ff0000]the player in breach of Rule 8-1?[/color]
[color=#ff0000]A. If the statement was made casually, there was no breach. If the statement[/color]
[color=#ff0000]was made to another player who had a shot to play from about the same[/color]
[color=#ff0000]position, there was a breach.[/color]

I believe this is what you meant.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Mr. Bean' timestamp='1424379035' post='10986873']
[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1424358519' post='10984555']
(I took a quick look for [b]a decision supporting my contention above[/b], but I didn't find one. Nevertheless I believe I'm correct.)
[/quote]

[color=#ff0000]D8-1/8:[/color]

[color=#ff0000]Q. After playing a stroke, a player says: “I should have used a 5‑iron.” Was[/color]
[color=#ff0000]the player in breach of Rule 8-1?[/color]
[color=#ff0000]A. If the statement was made casually, there was no breach. If the statement[/color]
[color=#ff0000]was made to another player who had a shot to play from about the same[/color]
[color=#ff0000]position, there was a breach.[/color]

I believe this is what you meant.
[/quote]

Thanks, that's the one!

[OneBowTie]

[quote name='Cancun' timestamp='1424307383' post='10981649']
Little things that matter:

Make sure to be on your tee 10 minutes before your tee time. One word of caution: also make sure not to start before the tee time, unless someone from the Committee instructs you to do so.

Count your clubs… no more than 14 in your bag (you can’t have 15 and declare one “out of play” at the beginning).

Be aware not only about the Local Rules, but also the Conditions of the Competition, if there are any.

Make sure you never risk teeing your ball even remotely close to a spot that would invite anyone to argue that you were outside the teeing ground… it’s not a big difference if you tee 1 ft behind the front line, for example.

Learn NOT to talk about ANYTHING that might put you in risk of a breach of Rule 8 (advice). Don’t ask which club someone used, don’t ask where you should aim, don’t ask if the wind is in favor, don’t ask about the break of a put or the grain of the grass… or pretty much anything that has to do with the game. You may ask about distances and Rules (not your best option, but your options under the Rules, and you have to decide).

Just as you shouldn’t ask about the above… don’t say anything about it either.

In case of doubt, ASK for the help of a referee (if available). Otherwise, study and understand the procedure for Rule 3-3

The rest, I believe has been said: relief procedures… NPR…

Good luck!
[/quote]

You could ask about wind direction couldn't you?? Public knowledge??

[Cancun]

[quote name='OneBowTie' timestamp='1424389654' post='10987907']

You could ask about wind direction couldn't you?? Public knowledge??
[/quote]

I'm afraid not OneBowTie. You should certainly be penalized if you ask about that. One more thing: your fellow competitor would be penalized if he answered! If he knows the Rules, he should also make sure that you inlcude the 2 strokes penalty in your score for the hole.

[HoffTTM]

[quote name='OneBowTie' timestamp='1424389654' post='10987907']
[quote name='Cancun' timestamp='1424307383' post='10981649']
Little things that matter:

Make sure to be on your tee 10 minutes before your tee time. One word of caution: also make sure not to start before the tee time, unless someone from the Committee instructs you to do so.

Count your clubs… no more than 14 in your bag (you can’t have 15 and declare one “out of play” at the beginning).

Be aware not only about the Local Rules, but also the Conditions of the Competition, if there are any.

Make sure you never risk teeing your ball even remotely close to a spot that would invite anyone to argue that you were outside the teeing ground… it’s not a big difference if you tee 1 ft behind the front line, for example.

Learn NOT to talk about ANYTHING that might put you in risk of a breach of Rule 8 (advice). Don’t ask which club someone used, don’t ask where you should aim, don’t ask if the wind is in favor, don’t ask about the break of a put or the grain of the grass… or pretty much anything that has to do with the game. You may ask about distances and Rules (not your best option, but your options under the Rules, and you have to decide).

Just as you shouldn’t ask about the above… don’t say anything about it either.

In case of doubt, ASK for the help of a referee (if available). Otherwise, study and understand the procedure for Rule 3-3

The rest, I believe has been said: relief procedures… NPR…

Good luck!
[/quote]

You could ask about wind direction couldn't you?? Public knowledge??
[/quote]

It might be a case of "its a 2 club wind into and off the left" not being allowed vs "the weather girl on tv said the wind would be 12mph from WSW this morning" being public knowledge and fine. Not sure on that but there are plenty of semantics involved in the rules what constitutes advice so its just best to stay well clear.

[OneBowTie]

[quote name='Cancun' timestamp='1424390430' post='10987973']
[quote name='OneBowTie' timestamp='1424389654' post='10987907']
You could ask about wind direction couldn't you?? Public knowledge??
[/quote]

I'm afraid not OneBowTie. You should certainly be penalized if you ask about that. One more thing: your fellow competitor would be penalized if he answered! If he knows the Rules, he should also make sure that you inlcude the 2 strokes penalty in your score for the hole.
[/quote]

Thank you....good to know......I'm not sure that adding two to my total is gonna change much!!!

[OneBowTie]

[quote name='HoffTTM' timestamp='1424390770' post='10988015']
[quote name='OneBowTie' timestamp='1424389654' post='10987907']
[quote name='Cancun' timestamp='1424307383' post='10981649']
Little things that matter:

Make sure to be on your tee 10 minutes before your tee time. One word of caution: also make sure not to start before the tee time, unless someone from the Committee instructs you to do so.

Count your clubs… no more than 14 in your bag (you can’t have 15 and declare one “out of play” at the beginning).

Be aware not only about the Local Rules, but also the Conditions of the Competition, if there are any.

Make sure you never risk teeing your ball even remotely close to a spot that would invite anyone to argue that you were outside the teeing ground… it’s not a big difference if you tee 1 ft behind the front line, for example.

Learn NOT to talk about ANYTHING that might put you in risk of a breach of Rule 8 (advice). Don’t ask which club someone used, don’t ask where you should aim, don’t ask if the wind is in favor, don’t ask about the break of a put or the grain of the grass… or pretty much anything that has to do with the game. You may ask about distances and Rules (not your best option, but your options under the Rules, and you have to decide).

Just as you shouldn’t ask about the above… don’t say anything about it either.

In case of doubt, ASK for the help of a referee (if available). Otherwise, study and understand the procedure for Rule 3-3

The rest, I believe has been said: relief procedures… NPR…

Good luck!
[/quote]

You could ask about wind direction couldn't you?? Public knowledge??
[/quote]

It might be a case of "its a 2 club wind into and off the left" not being allowed vs "the weather girl on tv said the wind would be 12mph from WSW this morning" being public knowledge and fine. Plenty of semantics involved in the rules re advice so its just best to stay well clear.
[/quote]

I guess it is in the way you word things......

[jmck]

Yeah, the "advice" one is a real grey area. If you hit a shot and mutter to yourself "there's more wind up there than I thought" that's okay. But if you're looking at the treetops and asking your competitor before you hit your shot "Is there more wind up there than we think?" then that's [i]maybe[/i] a penalty, maybe chitchat. (Asking someone else what club they hit is, without a doubt, no grey area, a penalty). Or if you're asking your competitor before you hit "is that a one club or two club wind," well that should probably be a penalty, even if it was only meant as pleasant chitchat, even if relatively few of your fellow competitors will bother to call it on you.

I guess the thing to do is to not say anything when in doubt. Or, as a rule of thumb, generalities about weather conditions are okay but specifics are not okay.

[Augster]

I think you folks are adding in grey areas. If you start asking about the weather or wind you are going to be in breach of 8-1.

In the DEFINITION of Advice, which 8-1 is all about, the key word is "COULD".

""Advice" is ANY counsel or suggestion that COULD influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. "

Yes, they've made Decisions as stated above allowing some banter about which club you hit. IMO, that Decision is breaching 8-1, but it's allowed as they made a Decision about it. Even an off-hand, "I should have hit the 6" before someone else plays "COULD" influence their shot selection or club selection or method of the stroke. It's a crime that Decision 8-1/8 is even on the books. It absolutely ignores the definition of Advice.

The best bet is to just STFU on the course. If you have to talk, talk about anything that isn't golf or the weather.

[larrybud]

Like someone else mentioned, learning about drop rules probably covers 95% of the rule issues that you'll encounter.

And always, when in doubt, play it as it lies.

[QEight]

[quote name='Augster' timestamp='1424394918' post='10988429']It's a crime that Decision 8-1/8 is even on the books. It absolutely ignores the definition of Advice.
[/quote]

Perhaps RB knew that people do tend to talk, especially after bad shot, and without much thought. I would not consider much of an issue.

The real offenders of this are easy to spot. They keep talking while reading the putting lines and while setting up their tee shots. "Aww, this has a lot of left break", "Aww, there sure is some headwind", "Aww, you hit 5 iron there did you?". Perhaps they are too used to playing in scrambles?

[Augster]

I cost myself a small tourney 2 years back giving advice.

Horrible conditions. Sideways mist, 37*, and wind 40 mph, gusting to 50. It was supposed to be about 30 players, 1-day tourney, but with the conditions only 12 showed so they repaired us to 3 groups. I happened to get paired with my friend.

3rd hole, downhill par 3, 180 into the wind. I hit 3-wood, well, and come up 30 yards short. Shocked, I say casually, "I guess you should hit driver." By "you" I meant me. But I was chuckling about it and was looking at my friend, and the other two guys.

I suddenly realized what I had done and assessed myself two strokes for being an idiot. Lost by a shot with an 89. I had actually shot 88, with the strokes on 3, but my hands were frozen, and I signed for the 89 I thought I shot. But it didn't seem right.

After shaking hands and retiring to the bar, I went through my card. I had written down a wrong score on the front 9, and didn't catch it until after the comp. Frozen to the bone and the front side card was soaking wet. Lots of excuses. But I knew I shot 88, but every time I added up the card it was 89. So I cost myself 3 shots being an idiot.

Sorry for the long story.

[Hathstauwk]

Basic but pretty important for a newcomer to tournament play......and speaking from direct experience.

In one of my first 'real' tournaments I played (it was a men's club tourney but still, was my first non-corporate hit-and-giggle type), I was living in California. I was on the 3rd green and just missed a short 4 footer for par. I was annoyed and just scooped up the ball with my putter and walked off the green. As I took a step off the green, I realized what I did. DQ in my first tourney after 3 holes. Well done, genius.

BIG lesson learned there.

[Hathstauwk]

[quote name='Augster' timestamp='1424422368' post='10990151']I cost myself a small tourney 2 years back giving advice.

Horrible conditions. Sideways mist, 37*, and wind 40 mph, gusting to 50. It was supposed to be about 30 players, 1-day tourney, but with the conditions only 12 showed so they repaired us to 3 groups. I happened to get paired with my friend.

3rd hole, downhill par 3, 180 into the wind. I hit 3-wood, well, and come up 30 yards short. Shocked, I say casually, "I guess you should hit driver." By "you" I meant me. But I was chuckling about it and was looking at my friend, and the other two guys.

I suddenly realized what I had done and assessed myself two strokes for being an idiot. Lost by a shot with an 89. I had actually shot 88, with the strokes on 3, but my hands were frozen, and I signed for the 89 I thought I shot. But it didn't seem right.

After shaking hands and retiring to the bar, I went through my card. I had written down a wrong score on the front 9, and didn't catch it until after the comp. Frozen to the bone and the front side card was soaking wet. Lots of excuses. But I knew I shot 88, but every time I added up the card it was 89. So I cost myself 3 shots being an idiot.

Sorry for the long story.[/quote]

That is an interesting scenario. In saying what you did, you were clearly not 'giving advice' and while I appreciate your honor in self-assessing, I am curious if anyone with expertise on rulings could chime in here to say if that truly would be considered an infraction, taking into account the manner he said it right after coming up short. Is that really considered giving advice?

I like to think of myself as always playing honorably but in this case, I frankly would never have considered myself as having provided advice and hence would not have assessed myself the penalty. Did anyone else in your group say anything? I would have considered it more a self-deprecating comment than anything else.

Interested in the viewpoint from an official, if there are any here!

[Mr. Bean]

[quote name='Hathstauwk' timestamp='1424424255' post='10990179']
Basic but pretty important for a newcomer to tournament play......and speaking from direct experience.

In one of my first 'real' tournaments I played (it was a men's club tourney but still, was my first non-corporate hit-and-giggle type), I was living in California. I was on the 3rd green and just missed a short 4 footer for par. I was annoyed and just scooped up the ball with my putter and walked off the green. As I took a step off the green, I realized what I did. DQ in my first tourney after 3 holes. Well done, genius.

BIG lesson learned there.
[/quote]

Even bigger lesson coming here:

You were DQ'd only after you teed off from the next tee for failure to hole out (R3-2). Stepping off the green is no issue. You should have replaced your ball, hole out and add one penalty stroke for a breach of 20-1 (not marking the place of your ball before lifting it). Leaving the green only counts on the last hole of the stipulated round, not any other green.

A good example of an error easy to make, though. No gimmies in stroke play.

[Mr. Bean]

[quote name='Hathstauwk' timestamp='1424424690' post='10990187']
[quote name='Augster' timestamp='1424422368' post='10990151']
3rd hole, downhill par 3, 180 into the wind. I hit 3-wood, well, and come up 30 yards short. Shocked, I say casually, "I guess you should hit driver." By "you" I meant me. But I was chuckling about it and was looking at my friend, and the other two guys.

I suddenly realized what I had done and assessed myself two strokes [/quote]

That is an interesting scenario. In saying what you did, you were clearly not 'giving advice' and while I appreciate your honor in self-assessing, I am curious if anyone with expertise on rulings could chime in here to say if that truly would be considered an infraction, taking into account the manner he said it right after coming up short. Is that really considered giving advice?

I like to think of myself as always playing honorably but in this case, I frankly would never have considered myself as having provided advice and hence would not have assessed myself the penalty. Did anyone else in your group say anything? I would have considered it more a self-deprecating comment than anything else.

Interested in the viewpoint from an official, if there are any here!
[/quote]

[size=4]I would support Augster's decision to call in an infraction as that is certainly what it is. He is telling his fellow-competitor which club he should use, even though he did not to it on purpose but he said it directly to the f-c, not to mention a direct suggestion in the words ([color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]"I guess you should hit driver.")[/background][/color]. See D8-1/8 once more and you'll find the exact words describing Augster's situation. As a referee I would have penalized Augster in case I had been asked and presented the case as it is presented here.[/size]

As someone wrote, best to keep you mouth shut.

[Hathstauwk]

Ok, agree that it is best to keep your mouth shut but just as a scenario, IF he had said "I guess I should have hit driver", would that have been ok or is it still indirect advice?