Epon AF tour VS Personal 2

[chiromikey]

Finally time to report on these...

I never thought I'd play these but some valued opinions got me curious. My reason for originally thinking that way was the same as most other blade players...looking at the specs before their release and I quickly ruled them out due to their offset. After the irons made their way into people's hands, all I kept reading was that the offset specs didn't match what people were seeing at address. Well, I'll go one further and say they play as if they have less offset as well. Very accurate, very straight, and very forgiving for a blade. Size is just right. About the size of my Flatbacks with a softer shape. I'm so glad Epon fixed the top line that was so wrong to me on the P1s. The top line now keeps them from looking bigger than they are. I originally thought the sole was purely aesthetic because it was just smooth and rounded almost matching the muscle. There really isn't any specific grind to it but it's surprisingly very good, as good as any actually. Distance is also improved over the P1s. The P1s just seemed to play 1/2-3/4 club short for me whereas these are where they should be. Nothing really needs to be said about feel...these are Epons after all. Bottom line is they're pretty amazing. With only two rounds under their belt, I can already say they're arguably the best Epons I've owned and played so far...maybe tied with my copper 302s, but much preferred over the AF-Tours, and original Personals. The lesson they've taught me is that offset is just a number. There are other aspects of an iron that determine it's playability. I'm rather glad I went against my instincts and picked these up but only wish I had done it sooner!

[needmoregolf]

great write up mikey, I agree with you on all points, these really are in the flesh type clubs, changes your perception completely. maybe the least photogenic of the bunch but the sexiest in person??

[Bigmean]

This is interesting.....

Have you ever played vega blades or miura baby blades? I would really appreciate any comparisons you could make between those and the new personals.

Thanks

[chiromikey]

Yep need, in person they are unbelievably beautiful. My buddy mentioned from behind me at address that they look like liquid chrome. So beautiful in fact that I had a hard time putting them into play. The chrome is more pure and a cleaner color than any chrome I've ever seen in the golf industry. Maybe even better than anything I've seen in the custom automotive industry.

Big, I've only hit the BBs on the range and not tried the Vega blades so I'm not sure I'm the the one to make those comparisons. One day I will have a set of SB-01s so I'll do a comparison between the top Miura and top Epon blades then.

[Bigmean]

Suspense......so from the bb at range.....your thoughts?

Here is my thought. If I got the personals, I could game bb, personals and Vegas, and be set for life. The offset is what is stopping me at trying the personals, but if I can get them at a flip price on auction.jp I may do it.

[chiromikey]

Ok, let's see...from recollection I didn't find the BBs that difficult to hit (at the time I was playing at the top of my game) but the comparison would almost be like an MB vs CB. The P2s are that much easier. The sole on the P2s glides itself through the turf with much less effort. The visual offset differences would be obvious when side by side but by themselves I got used to looking at the Epons easily (and I'm as big of an anti-offset guy as they come). I believe the Personals have a higher ball flight, but not at the expense of distance. If your Vegas are anything like their cousins (Flatbacks) these will be an easy transition.

If you got a set and took care of them, I highly doubt you'll lose a dime on any top shelf Epon if you did decide they weren't for you. I haven't!

[needmoregolf]

mikey, I think that is a universal sentiment when first trying to put these beauties in play -- they're just so damn gorgeous!! but, firm resolve leads to new addiction and you're so glad you took that first swing...then the second, and so on and so forth. I agree, the chrome has this high gloss finish that actually holds up remarkably well to tarnish and scratches, amazing really. I just pulled my 9i last night and put it in a Shimada K Tour with Masda slick to see how it would pair, plus the modus 125 were playing at Japanese spec on length and needed to up the swing weight a bit so went longer in the Shimada. Hope this build works out as I don't want go wasting my carbon ferrules for an experiment! lol

Btw, we share the exact taste in irons, as I intend to one day own a set of SB-01 as well, and at the moment, we have 3 of the same sets! haha

[IamMarkMac]

I just ordered a set of Personal 2s, probably against my better judgement. So looking forward to giving these a run this summer.

[idrive]

If a person can be addicted to a set of Irons.. I am addicted to the P2's.

I have Roddio I10's in mine.

[IamMarkMac]

Question for P2 owners (or clubfitters): As the lofts on these are very traditional (read: weak), how do you fill out the rest of your bag? I'm particularly curious about the transition to the long irons/hybrids/woods after the 24deg 4iron...

[chiromikey]

I bend my P2s (and all my irons) to modern lofts based off a 46* pw.

[IamMarkMac]

[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1435951061' post='11883104']
I bend my P2s (and all my irons) to modern lofts based off a 46* pw.
[/quote]

Doesn't that mess up the bounce? every time I've tried to strengthen lofts (though never with Epon), it never seems to turn out well for me.

[chiromikey]

I've never had a problem with it...

[idrive]

[quote name='IamMarkMac' timestamp='1435988170' post='11885696']
[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1435951061' post='11883104']
I bend my P2s (and all my irons) to modern lofts based off a 46* pw.
[/quote]

Doesn't that mess up the bounce? every time I've tried to strengthen lofts (though never with Epon), it never seems to turn out well for me.
[/quote]

I'm with you. Although it's just a mental thing for me.

Bending a club 1* changes the bounce 1*. I really don't think anyone would notice the difference.

For me, a 24* hybrid goes farther than a 24* iron. I think one needs to experiment a bit to see what club(s)
covers the distance you're looking for. I'm not sure that's really any different than with any iron set when
transitioning from the long irons to the hybrids or FW's.

[IamMarkMac]

[quote name='idrive' timestamp='1436186478' post='11895138']
[quote name='IamMarkMac' timestamp='1435988170' post='11885696']
[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1435951061' post='11883104']
I bend my P2s (and all my irons) to modern lofts based off a 46* pw.
[/quote]

Doesn't that mess up the bounce? every time I've tried to strengthen lofts (though never with Epon), it never seems to turn out well for me.
[/quote]

I'm with you. Although it's just a mental thing for me.

Bending a club 1* changes the bounce 1*. I really don't think anyone would notice the difference.

For me, a 24* hybrid goes farther than a 24* iron. I think one needs to experiment a bit to see what club(s)
covers the distance you're looking for. I'm not sure that's really any different than with any iron set when
transitioning from the long irons to the hybrids or FW's.
[/quote]

Glad to know it's not just me. I do get the point that it's probably just mental but golf is a mental game, eh?

Anyway, P2s are arriving today. I'm comfortable with the idea that I'll be hitting one club more since the lofts are really that much weaker. That being the case, I'll take what you said and pack the 4h as the next step from the 4i. As is my tradition with new clubs, am going straight to the course

[needmoregolf]

Man, that's gonna be an awesome crash course with those beauties! give yourself some favorable lies, those things scream don't hit me cuz they're so good to look at, but once you hit them, you can't stop!'

[IamMarkMac]

Couldn't wait for tomorrow so snuck out to a 9 hole course over lunch. As expected, P2s were one club short of my gamer 503s so once I added a club, my distances are mostly the same. What I didn't expect though was the launch.

Until I hit the 6i, every shot was all carry. I'm used to walking up and finding my ball a few yards past the pitch mark but I didn't have a single short iron roll on me in 9 holes.

All in all it took me 5 holes to adjust as I managed to end with 3 pars and a bogey. Now the test will be tomorrow with my normal foursome. I know they're going to have questions when they see me hitting an additional club so hopefully the ego doesn't get in the way.

[needmoregolf]

your p2's will feel 10x better than their clubs so let that check them and your pride on the actual number...if they still talk smack, let me hit one and then they'll be trying to figure out how to put together the loot to get a set themselves! lol

[Vegaman]

[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1434476989' post='11762802']
Finally time to report on these...

I never thought I'd play these but some valued opinions got me curious. My reason for originally thinking that way was the same as most other blade players...looking at the specs before their release and I quickly ruled them out due to their offset. After the irons made their way into people's hands, all I kept reading was that the offset specs didn't match what people were seeing at address. Well, I'll go one further and say they play as if they have less offset as well. Very accurate, very straight, and very forgiving for a blade. Size is just right. About the size of my Flatbacks with a softer shape. I'm so glad Epon fixed the top line that was so wrong to me on the P1s. The top line now keeps them from looking bigger than they are. I originally thought the sole was purely aesthetic because it was just smooth and rounded almost matching the muscle. There really isn't any specific grind to it but it's surprisingly very good, as good as any actually. Distance is also improved over the P1s. The P1s just seemed to play 1/2-3/4 club short for me whereas these are where they should be. Nothing really needs to be said about feel...these are Epons after all. Bottom line is they're pretty amazing. With only two rounds under their belt, I can already say they're arguably the best Epons I've owned and played so far...maybe tied with my copper 302s, but much preferred over the AF-Tours, and original Personals. The lesson they've taught me is that offset is just a number. There are other aspects of an iron that determine it's playability. I'm rather glad I went against my instincts and picked these up but only wish I had done it sooner!
[/quote]

I have heard several times that the P1s are short on distance. Is this because of the lofts being weak or something concerning design?

[IamMarkMac]

[quote name='Vegaman' timestamp='1436797934' post='11938820']
[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1434476989' post='11762802']
Finally time to report on these...

I never thought I'd play these but some valued opinions got me curious. My reason for originally thinking that way was the same as most other blade players...looking at the specs before their release and I quickly ruled them out due to their offset. After the irons made their way into people's hands, all I kept reading was that the offset specs didn't match what people were seeing at address. Well, I'll go one further and say they play as if they have less offset as well. Very accurate, very straight, and very forgiving for a blade. Size is just right. About the size of my Flatbacks with a softer shape. I'm so glad Epon fixed the top line that was so wrong to me on the P1s. The top line now keeps them from looking bigger than they are. I originally thought the sole was purely aesthetic because it was just smooth and rounded almost matching the muscle. There really isn't any specific grind to it but it's surprisingly very good, as good as any actually. Distance is also improved over the P1s. The P1s just seemed to play 1/2-3/4 club short for me whereas these are where they should be. Nothing really needs to be said about feel...these are Epons after all. Bottom line is they're pretty amazing. With only two rounds under their belt, I can already say they're arguably the best Epons I've owned and played so far...maybe tied with my copper 302s, but much preferred over the AF-Tours, and original Personals. The lesson they've taught me is that offset is just a number. There are other aspects of an iron that determine it's playability. I'm rather glad I went against my instincts and picked these up but only wish I had done it sooner!
[/quote]

I have heard several times that the P1s are short on distance. Is this because of the lofts being weak or something concerning design?
[/quote]

Don't know about the P1s but after a couple of rounds, I can say that, for me, P2s are short pretty much only due to lofts. P2 6i is 31* and 503 7i is 31* and I hit both the same distance.

[IamMarkMac]

[quote name='needmoregolf' timestamp='1436591417' post='11927670']
your p2's will feel 10x better than their clubs so let that check them and your pride on the actual number...if they still talk smack, let me hit one and then they'll be trying to figure out how to put together the loot to get a set themselves! lol
[/quote]

Appreciate the support but unfortunately, my friends are just not connoisseurs of golf clubs. They, by their own admission, have a lack of feel in their hands to distinguish anything other than pain on a bad shot.

I play with them because they're great friends and I brought them to the game. And it makes me glad that, even though in 15 years, they are still trying to break 100 consistently, they're still crazy about golf.

[chiromikey]

[quote name='Vegaman' timestamp='1436797934' post='11938820']
[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1434476989' post='11762802']
Finally time to report on these...

I never thought I'd play these but some valued opinions got me curious. My reason for originally thinking that way was the same as most other blade players...looking at the specs before their release and I quickly ruled them out due to their offset. After the irons made their way into people's hands, all I kept reading was that the offset specs didn't match what people were seeing at address. Well, I'll go one further and say they play as if they have less offset as well. Very accurate, very straight, and very forgiving for a blade. Size is just right. About the size of my Flatbacks with a softer shape. I'm so glad Epon fixed the top line that was so wrong to me on the P1s. The top line now keeps them from looking bigger than they are. I originally thought the sole was purely aesthetic because it was just smooth and rounded almost matching the muscle. There really isn't any specific grind to it but it's surprisingly very good, as good as any actually. Distance is also improved over the P1s. The P1s just seemed to play 1/2-3/4 club short for me whereas these are where they should be. Nothing really needs to be said about feel...these are Epons after all. Bottom line is they're pretty amazing. With only two rounds under their belt, I can already say they're arguably the best Epons I've owned and played so far...maybe tied with my copper 302s, but much preferred over the AF-Tours, and original Personals. The lesson they've taught me is that offset is just a number. There are other aspects of an iron that determine it's playability. I'm rather glad I went against my instincts and picked these up but only wish I had done it sooner!
[/quote]

I have heard several times that the P1s are short on distance. Is this because of the lofts being weak or something concerning design?
[/quote]

I have set lifts for all my clubs so I think it was a design thing. Nothing bad since they were still consistent.

[wmblake2000]

My set of mac vip 1025's have weak lofts (48* pw). I tweaked the lie and put 1/2 shorter shaft in each. Now it says 7 but really is an 8 in modern lofts. That's an alternative to bending strong. So I play 4-w, 52, 57 and 20, 23* hybrids. 24* in the 4i if I recall, but a full club shorter than the hybrid.

The P2's sound wonderful.... I consistently hear great things about them.

[dunn]

Funny to hear people talk about other clubs kicking current ones out of the bag....so if your swing goes south it's clubs fault?..lol

[dunn]

Funny to hear people talk about other clubs kicking current ones out of the bag....so if your swing goes south ( which it will at some point) it's the clubs fault?..lol

[Bigmean]

Dunn, I share your core thoughts on equipment 100%, I think that first and foremost that needs to be an absolute that people know to be true.

That said, I think you need to give people credit for knowing that, and at the same time enjoying messing around with a hobby. I think your condescending tones come from you putting everyone in the same group as the weirdos here that buy clubs thinking it will make them better or have people on the internet tell them what to buy......don't mistake that with BSing about clubs for info to apply to your own personal likes and people that actually don't think clubs will help but just like to mix it up.

No one said kicked out because They played bad, kicked out could be because they look better or feel better or substitute better for different and just a change of scenery. My father in law is a musician and has a guitar collection. He is not going to be a professional rock n roll star, but he buys and sells and trades guitars and enjoys playing and trying different ones. I am pretty sure that he doesn't think his newly acquired guitars will make him play better, but it is just something different to play around with and decide to keep or sell.

I have never, ever bought a club expecting it to make me better or play better (except driver...I am a sucker for drivers mainly because I suck at driving). You don't get to 70s golf thinking equipment is what does it. But is there really a problem in knowing you are not making a tour, nor have the time and ability with work and family to get to some kind of + handicap, and part of enjoying the game more in that limited time is trying cool stuff that you flip for another or keep???

[swizbeatz]

Should have just not responded, he doesn't get it. I've got a set of these waiting for shafts, I'm pretty excited. Will combo with 302 depending on weather/course.

[rqrox]

AF owners.. I was able to get some nice AF tours the other day with some NS pro 1150's and just can't get them square ( enough) at impact and am really keen to here what shafts you have them in as, like it has been suggested in some of the other posts, they are a thing of beauty and am really keen to hit the crap out of them.

p.s. I didn't buy them thinking it would make me a better player, I bought them because I just love tinkering and they are the best looking iron i have ever seen.

[MJisGOAT]

[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1438631375' post='12071222']
Funny to hear people talk about other clubs kicking current ones out of the bag....so if your swing goes south ( which it will at some point) it's the clubs fault?..lol
[/quote]only the shaft's fault

[MJisGOAT]

[quote name='rqrox' timestamp='1439033243' post='12100148']
AF owners.. I was able to get some nice AF tours the other day with some NS pro 1150's and just can't get them square ( enough) at impact and am really keen to here what shafts you have them in as, like it has been suggested in some of the other posts, they are a thing of beauty and am really keen to hit the crap out of them.

p.s. I didn't buy them thinking it would make me a better player, I bought them because I just love tinkering and they are the best looking iron i have ever seen.
[/quote]You've been sheltered if the 302 is the best looking iron you've seen.