Mizuno MP54 Swingweight argument

[jay65]

Hi Guys,

 

Can somebody confirm or deny the issue of Mizuno being able to use different Iron headweights to get to a customers' preferred Swing weight.

 

Let me explain why I ask. I ordered a set of Mizuno MP54 with Nippon 1150gh Stiff flex last week @ D2-D3 swingweight. After a week of them having the order through my Pro, they have told him that they cannot get the Swing weights to D2-D3, and can only get them to D0.

 

When I rang Mizuno UK, I was greeted by an ignorant little oik who, when I asked him why they can't get the SW to D2 he simply laughed. The attitude that I got from Mizuno Customer service was an absolute disgrace, but I was wondering if anyone in the know, can tell me if Mizuno generally have heavier/lighter heads for this purpose?

[BCC]

The "A" heads are heavier ...but also choices of length and grips affect the ending weight.
Mizuno has always been top notch for me....I'd call and talk to someone else !!

[taylorx300]

Mizuno does have two head weights - A or B heads - that vary by about 10grams. Typically they use the lighter heads when a build requires anything over 1/2" from standard length. Also, almost every build they do will have tip weights to achieve desired SW.
If you call them back with the serial number they can tell you which heads were used for the build.
Every fitting cart I've seen has a 6iron head with a white or yellow number - this is the A or B head denotion.

[jay65]

[quote name='BCC' timestamp='1433249665' post='11673410']
The "A" heads are heavier ...but also choices of length and grips affect the ending weight.
Mizuno has always been top notch for me....I'd call and talk to someone else !!
[/quote]

They won't put me through to anyone else in the company, it's Customer Service or no-one I'm afraid. I've already asked to be put through to Assembly, but they refuse to pass on my call, and all I get is this conceited little tyke who laughs in my face.

Fortunately my Pro has given me an 'opt out'. He has said if we get them in, and I don't like them after trying them, he will have them back, and I can order from a company who will accommodate my needs better. Can't say fairer than that I suppose, but it's a good point of interest you make about the A and B heads.

[robrey85]

This is very disappointing to hear. You should just have the shop add some tip weights to he head or some tungsten powder or something.

[jay65]

[quote name='robrey85' timestamp='1433251568' post='11673582']
This is very disappointing to hear. You should just have the shop add some tip weights to he head or some tungsten powder or something.
[/quote]

The only slight issue with that might be that, yes I agree with you whole heartedly, but the Green grass Pros over here in the UK don't generally get involved in Clubmaking per se. There are some around here and there that will do it, but generally, very few, and I'm not sure if my Pro will. Even if he does, he is obvioulsy likely to charge me for his time and materials etc, which is disappointing when I would have thought the adjustment of SW's should be able to be accounted for at the factory. The issue of the A and B heads is interesting and I have asked my Pro to find out if my order was made up with A or B heads, then we can go from there. What I am upset about really is the attitude of the Customer Service Team leader who finds my request amusing and not necessary apparently. To be sniggered at when all I want is a desired SW is very disappointing, but I suppose I shouldn't hold a whole company to account by the actions of one idiot.

My Pro is furious that one of his customers' has been spoken to like this. He knows how loyal I am to him, and he is really angry. I have known him 20 years so I know he's genuine when he says he is going to speak to Mizuno about this fools' attitude. My Pro has 5 shops in the County, so is a major stockist in our area and has told me he will not deal with companies who speak to his customers like this, and I believe him.

This whole thing is ongoing, so we'll see how it pans out after my Pro has spoken to Mizuno UK.

[robrey85]

That's hanus, hopefully your Pro talks to someone at Mizuno and get that guy what he deserves and gets you what you paid for.

[BCC]

Just curious but what length & grip ? D2 should be NO problem for any standard build with ANY company!!

[jay65]

[quote name='BCC' timestamp='1433254144' post='11673874']
Just curious but what length & grip ? D2 should be NO problem for any standard build with ANY company!!
[/quote]

Nippon NS Pro 1150 Stiff, standard length, Tour velvet grip. Just had a call back from my Pro, and he has rang Mizuno and they said they used the 'A' heads, but 'the optimal SW for this shaft/head combo is D0'. What a load of clap trap! There is no optimal SW for a Golf Club, only optimal SW for the Golfer. Why do these companies all assume we are all idiots and treat us as such? Lol.

[tx33]

Depending on the model, Mizuno has up to 3 headweights: A:standard, B:light (-7/8g) and G:heavy. B heads are used with builds of +1/2" or longer and G's are for some MX/JPX heads with graphite shafts. MP54 comes in A&B and of the top of my head the swing weight @ standard length with the 1150 is D0. A higher swing weight would require tip weights or over length irons. AFAIK Mizuno uses up to 5g tip weights to fine tune swing weight, which should get swingweight to D2.

P.S. 'optimal' or 'best' is sales person speak for 'as close as we can get using available components'. The Cumbernauld facility is one of the best OEM plans when it comes to getting builds on spec/within tolerances. If your Pro can get in touch with them (and not the CS dept) they should be able to specify what they can/can't do (+44 1236 730317).

[jay65]

[quote name='tx33' timestamp='1433255561' post='11674060']
Depending on the model, Mizuno actually has up to 3 headweights: A:standard, B:light (-7/8g) and G:heavy. B heads are used with builds of +1/2" or longer and G's are for some MX/JPX heads with graphite shafts. MP54 comes in A&B and of the top of my head the swing weight @ standard length with the 1150 is D0. A higher swing weight would require tip weights or over length irons. AFAIK Mizuno uses up to 5g tip weights to fine tune swing weight, which should get swingweight to D2.

P.S. 'optimal' or 'best' is sales person speak for 'as close as we can get using available components'. The Cumbernauld facility is one of the best OEM plans when it comes to getting builds on spec/within tolerances. If your Pro can get in touch with them (and not the CS dept) they should be able to specify what they can/can't do.
[/quote]

Assembly at Cumbernauld have already told my Pro that they can only get the SW's to D0. I have already addressed the issue with my Pro over the issue of tip weights, and Mizuno will not move on the issue. Not one of the best in my experience. But as you say, may my Pro is still speaking to the wrong person. So why they are still saying D0 is all they can do, if they use tip weights up to 5g, I simply do not know, and neither does my Pro. As I said, perhaps we are all just dealing with people who are having bad days, and speaking to somebody who knows what they are doing would be more productive.

[tx33]

The guys (and girls) at the plant know what they're doing for sure. I posted the number I had on file in my earlier post. I hope it is still accurate . As said, I'm not 100% sure about D0 being the 'standard' swing weight for a normal length A-head MP54. If it turns out to be even lighter than that, a heavier tip weight is needed to get to D2.

Slightly off topic, how did you get to the D2-3 spec you ordered? After all, swing weight is just a number. Those Nippons have quite a different balance point than for instance a DG or PX. D2 with a 1150 feels a lot different than D2 with a DG. Just trying to make sure you get what works for you in practice, not on paper.

[jay65]

[quote name='tx33' timestamp='1433257420' post='11674278']
The guys (and girls) at the plant know what they're doing for sure. I posted the number I had on file in my earlier post. I hope it is still accurate . As said, I'm not 100% sure about D0 being the 'standard' swing weight for a normal length A-head MP54. If it turns out to be even lighter than that, a heavier tip weight is needed to get to D2.

Slightly off topic, how did you get to the D2-3 spec you ordered? After all, swing weight is just a number. Those Nippons have quite a different balance point than for instance a DG or PX. D2 with a 1150 feels a lot different than D2 with a DG. Just trying to make sure you get what works for you in practice, not on paper.
[/quote]

It's ok, my Pro is very thorough, and we tested the SW of the Demo Club that I hit so well at out Fitting, and with that head/shaft combo, it came out at D2.5, so D2 is fine for me. D0 may not be so relevant for some people, but there are some people out there ( the minority maybe) that are sensitive to SW, and I want what the Demo Club came out at, or as close as possible, but D0 is way off for me.

I believe that you are right when you said that the standard SW with that head/shaft combo is indeed D0, and the addition of the tip weights would increase them to D2ish. But we are still at the stage of trying to get Mizuno to admit that they can use tip weights for my set, but this situation is ongoing, so keep em' peeled!! Lol.

[tx33]

If the demo is the MP54 from the cart, they should be able to get yours swing weighted the same. That's a no-brainer. I'm sensitive to swing weight and balance point myself, so I get where you're coming from. You are absolutely right: always buy the demo! or with irons, get them matching it.

EDIT: if you are on twitter, try @mizunocustomfit for UK tech reps. They should be able to sort things out

[jay65]

[quote name='tx33' timestamp='1433259335' post='11674536']
If the demo is the MP54 from the cart, they should be able to get yours swing weighted the same. That's a no-brainer. I'm sensitive to swing weight and balance point myself, so I get where you're coming from. You are absolutely right: always buy the demo! or with irons, get them matching it.
[/quote]

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I think all you guys are absolutely right. With regards to all the info that has been given. My simple suspicions are that Mizuno did a 'lazy build' with my set, (these things happen), and that in trying to get this sorted by both myself and my Pro, Customer Service are simply ignorant of the use of Tip weights in use in assembly. My Pro has now contacted the Rep, threatening to pull the plug on all his Mizuno Accounts in response to the way I was spoken to by Customer Service (probably a little over reaction on reflection, and nothing that a simple apology wouldn't put right), but he's a firey character and obviously feels he doesn't need a company like Mizuno in any of his 5 shops. (If you saw how much stock he has in his shops, you'd probably think he was right!!). Lol.

Anyhow, I'm sure this situation can be sorted by the guys down in assembly by the simple use of the tip weights already mentioned, it's just trying to get a hold of somebody down there, that my Pro and I are having trouble with right now. But they will have to go back if they're not right for re-assembly. And if assembly still maintain they can't/won't do D2 then I'll send them back and order from another OEM. Simple as a pimple!

[jay65]

Ok. Got my Irons today. We got every individual Iron Swing weighted, and they varied between C8 and D0!! Come on Mizuno, this is simply not good enough. So, it looks as if no tip weights were used whatsoever. I hit every Iron on Flightscope and although the results were ok, the consistency just wasn't as good as with the Demo Iron @ D2.5. (I hit them before them being tested for Swingweight).

So, looks like I will have to get Tip weights installed, and invalidate the warranty. Not a good experience from Mizuno on this one guys!

[tx33]

I'd say send them back till they get it right. You paid good money for them after all. Not up to normal Mizuno standards.

[jay65]

[quote name='tx33' timestamp='1433405430' post='11687072']
I'd say send them back till they get it right. You paid good money for them after all. Not up to normal Mizuno standards.
[/quote]

The problem is, that even on Mizuno Golfs' forum they say that they use up to 5g tip weights to get SW's closer, or up to where the Customer specifies. That would fit in well with the info that the guys on this thread have given too, so that sounds, with so many people saying the same thing, correct. The problem is, when I contact Mizuno, they maintain that they do not use Tip weights, and that in their current guise, this is 'optimal'.

This is what happens, when the right hand doesn't seem to know what the left hand is doing.

Just seem to be going around in circles.

[BCC]

I have a drawer full of Mizuno tip weights that they don't use ???? Hard to believe with such an easy build !!! Although.....I have ordered several sets this way: "A" heads, shafts uncut, grips in the box......and build them myself !!!!

[jay65]

[quote name='BCC' timestamp='1433409976' post='11687132']
I have a drawer full of Mizuno tip weights that they don't use ???? Hard to believe with such an easy build !!! Although.....I have ordered several sets this way: "A" heads, shafts uncut, grips in the box......and build them myself !!!!
[/quote]

I really can't be bothered with having the constant argument with them to be honest. Backwards and forwards repeating the 'oh yes you do, oh no we don't' appears to be premature pantomime season. They seem to be very unhelpful to be truthful. I am a strong believer that these people that work in Customer Services should be kept well away from public, which is a strange dichotomy.

Anyhow, what I'll do, is just get tungsten/lead powder added, or the shafts pulled and my own tip weights added, seems a lot less hassle.

FWIW, I love the Clubs, but after these are done in my bag, I'll not order anything from Mizuno again. Can't be bothered with the hassle over a relatively straight forward request.

[jay65]

Just a quick update guys. Firstly, can I say that my Pro has been absolutely magnificent through all this, and thinks this situation 'stinks'.

Mizuno UK have replied to his messages by now saying that they do not keep individual records of every set they make up, so they cannot answer as to what particular Tip weights are in each of my irons. All they can say is that weights of various weights will have been used to achieve a D0 Swingweight. This is not what I was originally told. In addition to this, I have the assembly sheet in front of me, that says the Irons are C8 to D0, which is in direct contradiction to the statement that my Pro received which states that they were all made to D0.

It appears that Mizuno UK cannot or will not make my particular Combo of MP54/Nippon 1150gh combination to a D2 swingweight. Thsi swingweight is pretty standard in the industry, so for a major manufacturer not to be able to do this is pretty poor.

The person replying also stated that the Demo/Fitting Club 'should not be any heavier than what he(me) has now'. How does she know this? There are many variables at play here, and for her to make random statements like this is a dangerous assumption. She talks of weight, but not whether that 'weight' is static weight or Swing weight!! I'm afraid this is indicative of the hotch botch way that Mizuno appear to be doing business over here. I understand that not every customer will be as discerning as me, but for any manufacturer to say that they can't make an Iron to D2 swingweight is nothing short of amateurish and second rate.

As I said, my Pro has supported my stance through all of this, and has offered to take the Clubs back, and start with me all over again with another manufacturer. Unfortunately, I went ahead and bought a Mizuno Tour Cart Bag (brilliant bag by the way), so that would have to go too. My Pro will be making virtually nothing on this deal, and I will have to put my hand in my pocket again to either get another bag,(if I send them back through my Pro) or keep the Clubs and get them properly swingweighted for me by a proper Club builder.

Either way, I'm in a no win situation. All I would warn you guys out there, is make sure that if you order anything from Mizuno, and that you are sensitive to Swingweight, then make sure that they can make the Clubs exactly how you want them, if they say that they can't, then walk away.

I'm shocked by Mizunos' amateurish way of building their Clubs, and their inability to cater for all players needs. After all, it's not as if I'm asking them to get them to some random Swingweight, just D2 would have been fine, but C8 in some of my irons is nothing short of slapdash and inappropriate for most Golfers needs.

Sorry to rant guys, but be very careful of Mizuno if you are buying Irons.

[dunn]

I had mp54 in 1150 stiff and swing wight was d1.9 in pw down to d0.9 in long irons....I pulled em apart and i got them up to d2-d3.......there are lot of tricks to mess around with swingweight....irons even 1/8 of an inch over will bump up sw....a combo of grip choice, tip weights, and length is easy to manipulate sw.......you can also just add some lead tape on back which is what I do all the time.....just got new b stones and their covered with lead tape on back cuz I just didn't want to tear em apart and I use midsize grips.....in fact I think every one of my clubs has lead tape somewhere......

I have ordered 6-8 sets of mizuno irons last few years and SW is always an issue....I have pulled em apart and every single set had tipweights in them.....I love their irons though and no one else is any better when it comes to specs.....alot of people would be really surprised if they checked their irons from any company.....especially with certain shafts.....dgs300 is usually the standard so most sw well with these....getting a set to spec isnt too bad so I don't really care if, I like the head.....

I deal with mizuno USA though and they are very nice people...
It is almost impossible to achieve all the different swingweights with all the different shafts and lengths people play their clubs......if you want spot on specs use Yoro craft mizuno or start playing JDM clubs....

[jay65]

[quote name='dunn' timestamp='1433714761' post='11707308']
I had mp54 in 1150 stiff and swing wight was d1.9 in pw down to d0.9 in long irons....I pulled em apart and i got them up to d2-d3.......there are lot of tricks to mess around with swingweight....irons even 1/8 of an inch over will bump up sw....a combo of grip choice, tip weights, and length is easy to manipulate sw.......you can also just add some lead tape on back which is what I do all the time.....just got new b stones and their covered with lead tape on back cuz I just didn't want to tear em apart and I use midsize grips.....in fact I think every one of my clubs has lead tape somewhere......

I have ordered 6-8 sets of mizuno irons last few years and SW is always an issue....I have pulled em apart and every single set had tipweights in them.....I love their irons though and no one else is any better when it comes to specs.....alot of people would be really surprised if they checked their irons from any company.....especially with certain shafts.....dgs300 is usually the standard so most sw well with these....getting a set to spec isnt too bad so I don't really care if, I like the head.....

I deal with mizuno USA though and they are very nice people...
It is almost impossible to achieve all the different swingweights with all the different shafts and lengths people play their clubs......if you want spot on specs use Yoro craft mizuno or start playing JDM clubs....
[/quote]

I hear what you say, but I do think that every Golfer has the right to get a D2 swingweight with any shaft that weighs 116g raw. Period. I understand that your comment about there are many ways to tweak a club to get it to a desired SW, and you are quite right, which, lead tape apart, (which I'm not prepared to do on a new set of chrome forged Irons), it makes it all the more confusing as to why Mizuno will not use these methods in order to achieve what the customer needs. Rather proves my exact point.

If I was asking for a D7 or D8 SW, then I could underatand how this may be more of a problem, but D2??? Come on Mizuno. And I don't see why I should have to go and spend another £120 ($200), just to get the SW to a pretty standard D2. As I said, if I was asking for something out of the ordinary (particularly high SW for example), then yeah sure I take your point, JDM or the like may be the way to go.

But to have to shell out another $200 just to get to D2??? I think not. My Pro agrees with me totally, which is why he has contacted the Rep to take them back as they do not match the Customers request, as specified.

I accept that Mizuno US may be nice people, but over here, my personal experience of Mizuno UK is amateurish, rude, and unaccommodating! Just my own findings of course.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

I see no reason they couldn't get there with a 116g shaft as thats not even 2 swingweights from the stock S300, but a simple fix is to just put lead tape on them and be done with it. I am in the U.S. and play over length shafts, so Mizuno's lighter heads have always been a godsend because it is a lot harder to get the swingweight down on a head (I don't like adding to total weight through backweighting), and they have always gotten mine pretty much perfect. And that is usually with tip weights on most of them for fine tuning.

[jay65]

For me, adding lead tape to a new set of irons that I only wanted to D2 SW, is akin to buying a new BMW, going to pick it up, and whilst Sat Nav is specified as standard, they have not put it in at the factory, instead, that tell you to go to a Motorist Discount store and buy one of those cheap GPS Sat Navs' that stick to the windscreen!! Lol.

Nope, they're going back.

But unlike you, I do know why they can't build them to D2...............they're hopeless!! Haha.

Seriously though for a moment, I'm not too down about it, at the end of the day, I have the full backing of my Pro who ordered them in the first place, he is happy to send them back and argue my case and deal with the flack. And I get to go through another exiting time, trying to chose another set of Irons!! ..........Happy days. I may give the Bridgestone J15 CB's another go actually. All good!!

[TLUBulldogGolf]

[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1433722281' post='11707994']
For me, adding lead tape to a new set of irons that I only wanted to D2 SW, is akin to buying a new BMW, going to pick it up, and whilst Sat Nav is specified as standard, they have not put it in at the factory, instead, that tell you to go to a Motorist Discount store and buy one of those cheap GPS Sat Navs' that stick to the windscreen!! Lol.

Nope, they're going back.

But unlike you, I do know why they can't build them to D2...............they're hopeless!! Haha.

Seriously though for a moment, I'm not too down about it, at the end of the day, I have the full backing of my Pro who ordered them in the first place, he is happy to send them back and argue my case and deal with the flack. And I get to go through another exiting time, trying to chose another set of Irons!! ..........Happy days. I may give the Bridgestone J15 CB's another go actually. All good!!
[/quote]

Not defending what they did on this particular build, and my experience is only with the US factory, but they certainly aren't hopeless over here. I worked in golf retail for a while and I would put them up there in terms of QC and meeting requested specs with Ping. Clearly that may not be the case for their European assembly, I would be interested to hear their side on this because it all just sounds odd to me.

[jay65]

[quote name='TLUBulldogGolf' timestamp='1433774987' post='11710728']
[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1433722281' post='11707994']
For me, adding lead tape to a new set of irons that I only wanted to D2 SW, is akin to buying a new BMW, going to pick it up, and whilst Sat Nav is specified as standard, they have not put it in at the factory, instead, that tell you to go to a Motorist Discount store and buy one of those cheap GPS Sat Navs' that stick to the windscreen!! Lol.

Nope, they're going back.

But unlike you, I do know why they can't build them to D2...............they're hopeless!! Haha.

Seriously though for a moment, I'm not too down about it, at the end of the day, I have the full backing of my Pro who ordered them in the first place, he is happy to send them back and argue my case and deal with the flack. And I get to go through another exiting time, trying to chose another set of Irons!! ..........Happy days. I may give the Bridgestone J15 CB's another go actually. All good!!
[/quote]

Not defending what they did on this particular build, and my experience is only with the US factory, but they certainly aren't hopeless over here. I worked in golf retail for a while and I would put them up there in terms of QC and meeting requested specs with Ping. Clearly that may not be the case for their European assembly, I would be interested to hear their side on this because it all just sounds odd to me.
[/quote]

I can give you their tel no. in the UK if you're that interested in getting their side of things. Fact is, they've gone back to my Pro now, as I wasn't happy with the fact that they couldn't/wouldn't get the Swingweights to D2 for me. C8-D0 was the best they would do. I have no reason to make a story up that wasn't true when I'm spending the equivalent of $800. There is no motive for me to make a story up.

The matter is over as far as sorting this issue out is concerned though.

I'm in the process of sorting a set out of the Bridgestone J15 CB now, and all is well.