Public vs Private Golf

[LeftDaddy]

OK, I in no way mean for this to come across "snobby", nor do I wish to get in to a heated debate. I'd just like to entertain some good back and forth regarding playing golf on public courses vs. private courses.

 

The main reason I thought about the topic is that I played on a public course this weekend for the first time in a long time. It was an expensive (and nice) public course that will turn private soon.

 

Anyway, OMG, I was so annoyed with the round overall. The pace of play was glacial, and the level of golf talent around us was terrible.

 

The pace of play issue was partly just being stuck behind bad golfers, but they were making some really odd choices about when to hit, running across the fairway and back, etc.

 

The reason I bring this up is that I have debated for some time the benefits of public vs private. The "math" usually works out to needing to play at least once a week to make a private membership worth it, and / or adding family members. Over time, I've come to realize that with private membership (and range plans, etc.) generally comes better golf, because you look to get your money's worth. Apparently, pace of play and just exposure to better golfers is another benefit that I had forgotten about.

 

But I'm sure there are benefits to public courses too...like variety of tracks to play, and I would assume public golf is generally cheaper over the course of a year.

 

Others? Thoughts?

[alittleoverpar]

I play both a private and public course on a regular basis. My experiences are similar to those in the OP. I adjust my expectations accordingly before I start the round.

[somaplr]

The "math" never comes out even on playing public vs. private especially if you're anywhere near the Mason Dixon line. People always try to figure out how many rounds they have to play a week to break even and it never really works out that way, unless you're retired. With initiations (at some places), food minimums (some places), assessments (some places) and down times for weather...you'll never ever break even. You are paying for the convenience at a private course, not the savings.

[ChristopherMcDonald]

As a worker/player at a private club for 8 years, I can tell you it's just about all the same. I notice VERY little difference between pace/etiquette shown on a public course vs a private course, there are dickheads everywhere you go (those who don't follow rules, are rude to others and the course, etc), they just look different.

I do understand how it could be frustrating with the group ahead slowing you down, but again I don't think that is because it's a public course.

Pace of play can be an issue anywhere you go. The club I used to work at would have 5 hour rounds usually on the weekends during peak times.

Remember also that you started somewhere and those crappy golfers have just as much right to enjoy the course as you, so don't be too harsh on them

[John L.]

I will take a "muni" over a private club any day of the week. My type of folks pull into the course driving a worn out F-150, and tying up their shoes on the tailgate. Their golf bags are usually laying in the middle of tools, and job site materials.

I did the private scene for a couple years, and I had never seen so many plastic millionaires, and phonies.

[vbb]

somaplr already addressed it, but I'll just echo his comment that the math never works out, so if you're looking to join a private course for a purely financial reason, it doesn't make sense. But if you do pay for and play at a private course, you'd better make sure you're getting the other "perks" that are associated with it. I've played as a guest at a few private courses and yes, they are far more empty than similar public courses. In fact, in the half-dozen or so rounds I've played on a FULLY private course, I don't remember ever having to wait for anyone for slow play. Not once. If I were to join of of those courses, that is what I'd come to expect.

Now, as far as the good vs. bad players, I disagree. While it is certainly more common to see a beginner or a group of guys more interested in drinking than golf on a public course, I don't know that the quality is much different at the top. I've been randomly paired with several low-single digits and a few plus players on rounds at public courses. Also remember not all bad players are slow players.

I "belong" to a semi-private course, and it is the best deal for me. It allows me to get involved with club events, get better treatment on tee time availability, and build up that camaraderie that you get with a group of people who enjoy golf. I have a nice wooden locker to store my stuff and it has a decent restaurant as well. Now does this mean on a nice weekend day in the summer the place won't still be packed? No, that still happens. I just don't get tee times between 8:30 and 2:30 and that usually cures that issue. Plus we get good discounted rates at a couple of other sister courses in the area which allows everyone to switch it up from time to time. A fully private club would only be worth it to me if my whole family was going to go up there and use the other facilities (pool, marina, etc), and play golf, and socialize with other families and that kind of thing... but since I'm just in it for the golf, playing a well laid out and "upscale" semi-private course is perfect for my needs. I just make sure to book early tee times.

[golfgirlrobin]

I buy a yearly pass at what is essentially a semi-private and it works out fine. Morning rounds are great, later rounds not so much and you have to adjust your attitude before you start.

I put being a member of a private course in the same category as having a boat. I don't want either, but it's pretty nice to have a friend who does.

[phillyspecial]

I joined my first club this year after a lifetime at public courses playing a huge variety year after year.

I can sum it up by simply saying that for me private golf strips out everything I found annoying about public golf and replaced with many small details that add pleasure to the experience. You can't put a price on that.

I would give up a lot of expenses before I gave up my club.

[bk52]

[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1434402312' post='11757194']

The main reason I thought about the topic is that I played on a public course this weekend for the first time in a long time.

Thoughts?
[/quote]

It makes no sense for you to draw a broad conclusion about public access courses based on one round "in a long time." At the same time, the assumption that all or most private courses comply with your standards is equally misguided, I think "ChristopherMcDonald" hit the nail on the head with his comments above.

[BrianL99]

99 out of 100 golfers would belong to a private club if they could afford it. I'm sure there's the 1 out of 100 who wouldn't, but I've personally never met him.

It's a simple financial decision and all the rationalizations you hear about not joining one, are mostly that ... rationalizations from someone who can't afford it or simply doesn't fit in.

I play 18 holes with a foursome last Saturday morning, in 3 hours & 15 minutes. In 20 years, I've never played a round of golf that's taken longer than 4:30.

& when I get to the club, my clubs are cleaned and waiting for me.

I also belong to a semi-private club, in an area that has a shortage of private clubs. My experience there is almost identical.

[BMC]

I work at a high end private club, but I'm not a member, but I do get to play it once a week. I play at public courses Mon-Thurs in general.

The private players are generally more skilled, and even on the weekend, the rounds are 4 hours max. Well Marshaled.

So, my opinion is: if you can play during the week, go public, less crowded. If your rounds will be mainly weekends, go private.

Mr. McDonald hit the nail on the head - there are d-heads everywhere, but most private members are pretty cordial people who are successful for a reason.

FYI: I drive a Ford pick-up.

[bearcatnut]

Good thing you started a new thread on this topic since this is something that really hasn't been discussed before and there aren't any old threads with the same debate around...

[BrianL99]

[quote name='bearcatnut' timestamp='1434411142' post='11758054']
Good thing you started a new thread on this topic since this is something that really hasn't been discussed before and there aren't any old threads with the same debate around...
[/quote]

I only counted 96 threads on the subject in the last year, so I'm sure there are points that haven't yet been discussed

[ratspros]

I think there are definite advantages to both, private courses I find you will get a bit better service, and the main thing for me is the family type atmosphere between members. In public courses I like the laid back attitudes, I like not having to worry so much if I forget to take my hat off in the clubhouse or if I change my shoes in the parking lot (this is my number 1 dumbest rule ever invented in the private club world).

I grew up playing a private course and my years as a golf pro have been at mostly private courses. In my last 8 years out of the business I have stuck to playing mostly semi-private and public golf courses with the odd private experience sprinkled in. I have loved this as I get a good variety of courses played which helps my game travel really well lately. With that said i am actually looking to go fully private in the next few years as it makes way to much financial sense for me not to. Unlike others here who believe it never pays for itself with me being in real estate it easily pays for itself with the referrals and references I get from members. My dues will average out to about $5,000 a year and an average commission from a house sale for me is about $25,000 so I just need to get one referral every 5 years and I'm playing for free. And I know from other in the industry that the rate of gaining clients at a course is a lot higher then that. Now I just need to find an accountant that will find a way to write off my dues as a marketing expense.

[crazy8golfer]

[quote name='cinderellaboy' timestamp='1434406320' post='11757612']
I joined my first club this year after a lifetime at public courses playing a huge variety year after year.

I can sum it up by simply saying that for me private golf strips out everything I found annoying about public golf and replaced with many small details that add pleasure to the experience. You can't put a price on that.

I would give up a lot of expenses before I gave up my club.
[/quote]Just give it a little time and your opinion will change.

[billh17]

McDonald has it correct....you can find the same issues no matter where you play....and the same types...some are good guys...others...not so much.

and they can be driving a ford as easily as a Lexus....the slow play issue will only bother you if you let it...why get upset about something you have no control

over and cant change? Public or Private....enjoy the golf....its just the same as drivers...whatever works best for you.

[BMC]

[quote name='billh17' timestamp='1434414361' post='11758398']
McDonald has it correct....you can find the same issues no matter where you play....and the same types...some are good guys...others...not so much.

and they can be driving a ford as easily as a Lexus....the slow play issue will only bother you if you let it...why get upset about something you have no control

over and cant change? Public or Private....enjoy the golf....its just the same as drivers...whatever works best for you.
[/quote]

Well said. Play to the pace of the course - you'll enjoy yourself more.

[BrianL99]

[quote name='ratspros' timestamp='1434412457' post='11758184']
Now I just need to find an accountant that will find a way to write off my dues as a marketing expense.
[/quote]

There are plenty who will try, but when you get audited, you'll likely get some disagreement as to it's legitimacy.

[1puttTUT]

The golfers on private courses are NOT usually better golfers based on my experience. They just have deeper pockets.

[LeftDaddy]

Looks like this thread touched a nerve with the thread police. Mods, feel free to merge with the other 96 similar posts.

I realized later I wasn't clear in my original post. I'm already a member at 2 private clubs, so I don't necessarily need advice on which is better. I know which is better to me at least, and that is private membership.

I've found that it is hard to justify club memberships on any real financial basis, again unless you play A LOT, and / or if your family plays a good bit too. But the reasons to join a club, in my opinion, have a lot more to do with "the little things" that have been talked about in this thread...less crowded, social aspects, more access to more golf, generally better on course etiquette and / or better care of the course, etc.

A friend invited me to try out a new course in town this weekend, and while I enjoyed the course and the round, it just reminded me what playing on a weekend at a public course was like. As I mentioned, it had been quite a while. I couldn't help but think "No wonder golf is suffering right now...I just paid $70 to play this place and wait 5-10 minutes at every tee box...geez! But maybe that was just one day at one course, although I will say that I "remembered" again what it was like. I was just curious if this experience was common.

And there are d-bags everywhere, none moreso than at some private courses.

[ats200]

If I get out in the early morning I never have an issue, it's the late morning and early afternoon when the once or twice a year players are in full force I think. Probably a bit different for me living in a tourist area though.

[larrybud]

I'm not a country club member, but a member at a university course. It works out to about $60 per round, and that's with me walking 99% of the time. While I could play cheaper elsewhere I would just state this:
1) pace of play is much better largely due to the fact that there's not as many people jammed on the course. I've come to the conclusion too many people on the course accounts for 80% of the slow play issues
2) because people aren't jammed, I can go out there at 9am on a weekend and find a group to play with
3) I can fit 18 holes in after work
4) I know what to expect conditionwise

That said, because I have the low end membership (pay per play membership) I don't feel obligated to play the majority of my rounds there, so I do play public courses. Some are good, some are bad. There are some which are even better than my home course in a few ways (management and the people who work there, for instance),

[golfortennis]

OP, don't worry about thread police. They just can't get the idea into their heads that not every thread must be read, nor does every thread require a response from them. If they would realize those two things, those posts would go away.

Anyway, as to your post, it really hit me this weeend one of the biggest differences: ballmarks. I'm not saying a private club never has an unrepaired ball mark, but since the members basically have skin in the game, they take much better care of the course. I was fixing up to 5 ballmarks per green on the course I was playing on Sunday, and it is a highly rated public course. We were disgusted by the fact people would treat that course like that. The conditions were great, so we know its not the staff. Just some plugs who couldn't be bothered.....

[TKD24]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1434459178' post='11760728']
OP, don't worry about thread police. They just can't get the idea into their heads that not every thread must be read, nor does every thread require a response from them. If they would realize those two things, those posts would go away.

Anyway, as to your post, it really hit me this weeend one of the biggest differences: ballmarks. I'm not saying a private club never has an unrepaired ball mark, but since the members basically have skin in the game, they take much better care of the course. I was fixing up to 5 ballmarks per green on the course I was playing on Sunday, and it is a highly rated public course. We were disgusted by the fact people would treat that course like that. The conditions were great, so we know its not the staff. Just some plugs who couldn't be bothered.....
[/quote]

^this! I was just thinking this the other day, from a slightly different angle.

A couple friends of mine just recently joined a local private club that is struggling to keep members due to their constant assessments. So, they're doing all sorts of deals to wave assessments for a period of time and junior memberships. My buddies have always been public course golfers before this. I recently invited them over for a round at my club, and I noticed that I had to constantly remind them about repairing ball marks and replacing divots. For me, it's become second nature now to look for my divot after my shot or repair my ball mark when walking onto the green, but it's just not in their thought process.

I'm not saying it's across the board that all public golfers are like this, but it's just something I've noticed to be relatively consistent.

[daryguy77]

I played at the University courses in State College, PA for a year or two. I went out and payed when I played last year and on a warm December day had members there (who did not pay a penny to play that warm day) tee off when I am 100 yards out in the fairway on a par 4. The main issue that I took was that the slow play due to students is rampant and secondly there were always events on every other weekend. So the year that I did pay for a membership, I never came close to the rounds required to pay for it. The courses were usually in fair enough shape, but the greens are so slow that you have to pound the ball for it to go 20 feet.

[knock it close]

I think the pace of play thing is mostly true. I was a member at a private club in Victoria for a couple winters and never played in over 3:45; albeit I mostly played non peak times. Then again yesterday afternoon I played at a private club just outside Calgary and it was painfully slow (4:30 ish).

[LeftDaddy]

Yes, I noticed two things related to course maintenance. Very few ball marks were repaired, and the sand traps had footprints all over the place. At my private clubs we have those issues too, to some degree, but nothing like what I saw this weekend at this nicer public course.

[ruascott]

Can someone actually explain to me what the heck a semi private course is? Because what I've seen described as such over the years around my area is nothing more than attempting to dress up what is really just a public course.

In any case, everyone I've seen is a lot more like a public club than a private one.

[somaplr]

[quote name='ruascott' timestamp='1434469768' post='11762012']
Can someone actually explain to me what the heck a semi private course is? Because what I've seen described as such over the years around my area is nothing more than attempting to dress up what is really just a public course.

In any case, everyone I've seen is a lot more like a public club than a private one.
[/quote]

Usually they are "private" courses that sell memberships with limitless golf and preferred tee times and you pay monthly dues. At "semi-private" pretty much anyone or the public still can usually call ahead a few days in advance and get tee times with ease, they just dont have a locker or can use the pool. You probably can't tee off before, like, 2pm on a Satruday.

Most coutnry clubs that have trouble surviving, that were once totally private, are now open to the public. Country club business is way down and its a way to keep their revenues up with only a couple hundred members.

[Another80]

Semi-private is a club that you can join, but is also available for daily fee play.

With your membership you'll often get unlimited golf (or heavily discounted) and better access to tee times. Some semi-private courses also block off specific peak times for members only.