Golf "strategy" question

[LeftDaddy]

OK, like several other threads I've participated in on this topic, I had a career round going today and of course blew it on 17 and 18. However, herein lies my question.

 

So unlike in the past, I wasn't really following my score. Was playing with a colleague and talking, etc. Anyway, I definitely had a feeling after I birdied #15 that I was extremely close to breaking 80 for the first time, but I didn't know how close. I purposefully didn't add up my score, but I knew in the back of my mind I was pretty darn close. Anyway, I hit a good tee shot on 16 but got a little "nervy" over my wedge shot into the green and got a bogey. I got to 17 and of course hit a poor drive, ended up with a double...and then doubled 18 but it was due to an extremely unlucky break (i.e. I hit two decent shots that should have led to a par but got a bad break).

 

So this is my dilemma...when I looked back over the scores, if I had only gotten par on the last 2 holes I would have shot 79. I am so angry at myself because 17 is an easy par 5...I could have hit 6 iron, 6 iron, wedge into that green...and 18 is a shortish par 4...could have hit hybrid, 7 iron into that green. I know all of the advice says to not worry about score, but shouldn't I have done that in this case? I guess I would have been playing "prevent defense" and possibly would have hit poor shots even with the irons off the tee, but I feel like not knowing actually made me do something dumb in this case. I hit 3 wood off of both tees, and I had been hitting 3 wood really well all day. Should I have known my score and gone into 17 and 18 with the mentality that I just have to make par (and therefore have to hit irons off the tee to ensure I find fairways)? I just feel sick over it because if I had known what I needed, I feel like I would have played different shots (even though all of the advice suggests otherwise).

 

Also, another question...I played an 18 hole match the other day which ended All Square but it was too dark to continue. So we will continue play to finish the match in a day or so. How should I approach this? I am getting 1 stroke on my opponent on the hole we are playing, and I feel like a par will win the match for me. The hole is pretty wide open. I'm considering hitting 3 wood off the tee since it gives me enough distance and I am pretty confident in it. But I wonder if I shouldn't just "guarantee" a fairway with a hybrid or long iron and then take my chances with a 6 or 7 iron in. 3 wood would leave me a wedge or 9 iron. Thoughts? What should my mentality be? How should I practice?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[glk]

You did fine. You knew the situation and sounds like nerves crept in. Next time relax and play aggressive shots to conservative targets. Yeah i know a cliche.
Match play getting a pop on wide open hole. Be aggressive hit 3w or driver. 9i way better than 6i for a 2nd .

[AceCatKY]

[quote name='glk' timestamp='1438139166' post='12039044']
You did fine. You knew the situation and sounds like nerves crept in. Next time relax and play aggressive shots to conservative targets. Yeah i know a cliche.
Match play getting a pop on wide open hole. Be aggressive hit 3w or driver. 9i way better than 6i for a 2nd .
[/quote]

Agree. Would definitely stay aggressive and play the hole as if you would not be getting a stroke. Hit a smooth driver and look to take a short iron or wedge at your target.

[golfgirlrobin]

First of all, there are no guaranteed fairways. Nerves creep into the safe iron off the tee the same as any other shot. If you'd been hitting your three wood well all day, then hitting it on 17 and 18 is not a stupid move. Better to continue with what you're comfortable with than introduce something new at the tail end of a round.

I don't know that it really matters if you know your score or not. You have to put yourself in the position of breaking 80, or whatever your number is, enough times that you get comfortable in that position and the nerves start to settle down. I probably had a good chance of breaking 80 half a dozen times before I got it done.

Hit the three wood when your match continues. Even if you miss the fairway, I'd rather have a 9 iron from the rough than a 6 iron from the fairway, anyway.

Good luck!

[dan360]

Golf is a game of "what if"......

imagine how Dustin Johnson feels right now after all those blown Major opportunities.

Or Greg Norman after The Masters.

Or even Oosthuizen with all those missed putts in the final round of The Open.


Strategy means little when things just go wrong. It happens. The only strategy guaranteed to work is keeping playing and working at it. Next time maybe you'll blow up on 10, 11, and 12 and play 16, 17, and 18 3 under.

Or, it'll all go according to plan and you'll break 80 the next 14 times you play, only to shoot 106 the next time.

It's golf. Just wait 'til a bird runs off with your ball.

[Nuggets]

Stick to your guns IMO, if I'm playing I know I'll play par 3's conservatively and just try to hit the green but on anything else its bomb and gouge!

If you just think of it as a normal round no matter what I find it hard for the nerves to creep in, even if I'm in match play I just play it like stroke even if I know I'm getting a shot

[ofortuna]

It's sounds like you could use some help with your mental game. I know people who play golf matches for a lot of money that shoot in the 90's.. and make money. They match up well and are tough mentally. On the other hand, I good friend of mine is a much superior golf than me and will beat me day in and day out... unless... we make a really tiny nassau bet. Then he shoots a million.

As a part of your preshot routine, you need to visualize a positive result before pulling the trigger. Don't make the mistake of visualizing something negative with an X over it (ie don't hit it in the water). You're going to hit bad shots a percentage of the time so it's best to just accept it.

It sounds like you're not keeping score to keep the pressure off on breaking 80 because you now how it will creep into your head and sabotage you. Looks like your subconscious was keeping score without your permission.

My 2c

[MrJones]

To be quite honest with you there's always talk of toughening up your mental game or "just envision a good shot". But how everyone goes about doing it is different.

For me, it took me being in the situations to shoot a good score enough times that I got more comfortable with the situation in general. I wasn't as worried about the "what ifs" because I knew I could be in the same spot tomorrow. Helped calm the nerves a ton and let me concentrate on the holes, not the score.


These days I try to step into every shot like I'm about to hit a ball at a target on the range. It helps me focus on the target and the type of shot I'm playing rather than the possible outcomes of the shot. My old self focused on all the spots I didn't want to end up and that's usually where I would hit them

[LeftDaddy]

All great advice...thanks everyone. This "mental game" stuff is certainly where I think the next "frontier" of improvement will come for me in golf. I have a lot of the shots in my bag needed to consistently shoot high 70s / low 80s, and yesterday was particularly annoying because although I shot 83, I could have very easily shot 76. I missed 3 very makeable short putts (I hit several too, though), and I had two 3-putt bogeys...plus, I got a really unlucky break on 18 that cost me a stroke and all I had to do on 17 was find the fairway on my tee shot and I very likely would have made par on it (instead of double).

Anyway, I tried to focus on that "mental stuff" yesterday when it crossed my mind that my score was going to be really good (for me), and I stood over the tee shot on 16 and focused on a good outcome (and I hit a really good shot). I did the same thing on 17 but hit the first truly bad 3 wood I had hit all day...I guess you guys are all saying that was still the right thing to do and I should just file that one in the "bad shots are just going to happen occassionally" category?

Also, another quick question...I've had two short-sided pitch shots into greens recently where the pressure was on, and in both cases I did the "right thing" (I think) by acknowledging to myself that my nerves would likely creep in, so in both cases I intentionally hit the ball a little harder than I felt I needed to (first to make sure I got on the green, and second to overcome the "nerves"). But in both cases I hit the ball too far and missed the par putt coming back. In both cases, though, bogey was OK (i.e. I halved the hole with bogey), but par would have been better. I guess on some level my thought process was to give myself a chance with a comeback putt and just accept the bogey if it came to that, rather than leave the pitch short and have to scramble for bogey. But as I look back on it, hindsight being 20/20 and all, might I have been better to focus hard on the up and down and accept the risk of double? In both cases, the "worst case" scenarion would have likely been a relatively short putt from the fringe.

[RichieHunt]

[quote]So this is my dilemma...when I looked back over the scores, if I had only gotten par on the last 2 holes I would have shot 79. I am so angry at myself because 17 is an easy par 5...I could have hit 6 iron, 6 iron, wedge into that green...and 18 is a shortish par 4...could have hit hybrid, 7 iron into that green. I know all of the advice says to not worry about score, but shouldn't I have done that in this case? I guess I would have been playing "prevent defense" and possibly would have hit poor shots even with the irons off the tee, but I feel like not knowing actually made me do something dumb in this case. I hit 3 wood off of both tees, and I had been hitting 3 wood really well all day. Should I have known my score and gone into 17 and 18 with the mentality that I just have to make par (and therefore have to hit irons off the tee to ensure I find fairways)? I just feel sick over it because if I had known what I needed, I feel like I would have played different shots (even though all of the advice suggests otherwise).[/quote]

First, you should play for your average swing. There's no guarantee that if you played for a bad swing (laying up off the tee to prevent hitting it into trouble) that you would not have hit a bad enough shot to end up in trouble and now you are in trouble AND further from the hole.

So gauge for your results if you take your average swing at it.

The other thing is that you were playing well, so your average swing that day was producing better results.

I'm curious as to why you didn't hit driver. Other than that I don't think strategy was an issue, but your mentality hurt you.

One thing I've been focusing lately is on something that Dr. Bhrett McCabe has stated...'[i]don't make predictions because we are awful at it.'[/i]

Meaning...don't assume that because you are playing an easy hole or a hard hole or if you take a certain strategy that you'll play the hole a certain way because most of the time we end up playing the holes completely differently than we thought. You're better off focusing solely at the shot at hand and trying to hit that shot as best as you can and let the chips fall where they may.

For instance, I was playing a course the other day and I shot 37 (+1) on the front. Then I went and birdied 10, 11 and 12 and then bogeyed an easy 15th hole while birdieing a very tough 18th hole. I would have never predicted that I would:

1. Shoot 37-33

2. Birdie 3 holes in a row.

3. Bogey the easy 15th hole

4. Birdie the hard 18th hole.

So by thinking that you could have played conservatively and made the easy par doesn't mean it would have happened.

Again, play for your average swing. Focus on the target and the shot you want to hit to that target and nothing else should matter.


[quote]Also, another question...I played an 18 hole match the other day which ended All Square but it was too dark to continue. So we will continue play to finish the match in a day or so. How should I approach this? I am getting 1 stroke on my opponent on the hole we are playing, and I feel like a par will win the match for me. The hole is pretty wide open. I'm considering hitting 3 wood off the tee since it gives me enough distance and I am pretty confident in it. But I wonder if I shouldn't just "guarantee" a fairway with a hybrid or long iron and then take my chances with a 6 or 7 iron in. 3 wood would leave me a wedge or 9 iron. Thoughts? What should my mentality be? How should I practice?[/quote]

Stop worrying about making a bad swing. Play for what you can do if you take an average swing at it.

You could get up there and play for your average swing and then take a great swing, split the fairway and hit it 20 yards longer than you ever have.

You could play a hybrid off the tee and take an awful swing and now have longer into the hole.

Play for your average swing.







RH

[Nuggets]

As I said treat it like any other round, I don't find nerves a problem in competitions and just go with the flow

Its only when I realize I'm doing badly that I try to manufacture something and things become worse

Those little greenside pitches..... if you've got nerves and know you're going to leave it short don't play the standard pitch to land it close. Have a fall back shot that always works, I like taking a 7 or 8...maybe a PW if its close but I don't have confidence in the 53 that day and giving it a low flyer that falls short and runs or if I need to stop it quick the flop shot is one of my best tricks so I pull the 60 and just go for it.

I'm not saying a fall back shot is the best way but if you have something you're confident in that always works to get you out of trouble then use it

[larrybud]

[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
So this is my dilemma...when I looked back over the scores, if I had only gotten par on the last 2 holes I would have shot 79. I am so angry at myself because 17 is an easy par 5...I could have hit 6 iron, 6 iron, wedge into that green...and 18 is a shortish par 4...could have hit hybrid, 7 iron into that green. I know all of the advice says to not worry about score, but shouldn't I have done that in this case? I guess I would have been playing "prevent defense" and possibly would have hit poor shots even with the irons off the tee, but I feel like not knowing actually made me do something dumb in this case. I hit 3 wood off of both tees, and I had been hitting 3 wood really well all day. Should I have known my score and gone into 17 and 18 with the mentality that I just have to make par (and therefore have to hit irons off the tee to ensure I find fairways)? I just feel sick over it because if I had known what I needed, I feel like I would have played different shots (even though all of the advice suggests otherwise).
[/quote]

So here's the question I pose to you: If you knew that you were already at, say, 77, before you teed off on 17, knowing that there was zero chance at breaking 80, why would your strategy be different than trying to break 80? Isn't the point to play every hole with the intention of trying to get the lowest score possible as often as possible?

The only time I would ever see changing your strategy is if you HAD to get a particular score to win a match, where the odds of making that score is pretty low (let's say, attacking a pin which otherwise you wouldn't attack).

[LeftDaddy]

[quote name='RichieHunt' timestamp='1438181420' post='12041032']
[quote]So this is my dilemma...when I looked back over the scores, if I had only gotten par on the last 2 holes I would have shot 79. I am so angry at myself because 17 is an easy par 5...I could have hit 6 iron, 6 iron, wedge into that green...and 18 is a shortish par 4...could have hit hybrid, 7 iron into that green. I know all of the advice says to not worry about score, but shouldn't I have done that in this case? I guess I would have been playing "prevent defense" and possibly would have hit poor shots even with the irons off the tee, but I feel like not knowing actually made me do something dumb in this case. I hit 3 wood off of both tees, and I had been hitting 3 wood really well all day. Should I have known my score and gone into 17 and 18 with the mentality that I just have to make par (and therefore have to hit irons off the tee to ensure I find fairways)? I just feel sick over it because if I had known what I needed, I feel like I would have played different shots (even though all of the advice suggests otherwise).[/quote]

First, you should play for your average swing. There's no guarantee that if you played for a bad swing (laying up off the tee to prevent hitting it into trouble) that you would not have hit a bad enough shot to end up in trouble and now you are in trouble AND further from the hole.

So gauge for your results if you take your average swing at it.

The other thing is that you were playing well, so your average swing that day was producing better results.

I'm curious as to why you didn't hit driver. Other than that I don't think strategy was an issue, but your mentality hurt you.

One thing I've been focusing lately is on something that Dr. Bhrett McCabe has stated...'[i]don't make predictions because we are awful at it.'[/i]

Meaning...don't assume that because you are playing an easy hole or a hard hole or if you take a certain strategy that you'll play the hole a certain way because most of the time we end up playing the holes completely differently than we thought. You're better off focusing solely at the shot at hand and trying to hit that shot as best as you can and let the chips fall where they may.

For instance, I was playing a course the other day and I shot 37 (+1) on the front. Then I went and birdied 10, 11 and 12 and then bogeyed an easy 15th hole while birdieing a very tough 18th hole. I would have never predicted that I would:

1. Shoot 37-33

2. Birdie 3 holes in a row.

3. Bogey the easy 15th hole

4. Birdie the hard 18th hole.

So by thinking that you could have played conservatively and made the easy par doesn't mean it would have happened.

Again, play for your average swing. Focus on the target and the shot you want to hit to that target and nothing else should matter.


[quote]Also, another question...I played an 18 hole match the other day which ended All Square but it was too dark to continue. So we will continue play to finish the match in a day or so. How should I approach this? I am getting 1 stroke on my opponent on the hole we are playing, and I feel like a par will win the match for me. The hole is pretty wide open. I'm considering hitting 3 wood off the tee since it gives me enough distance and I am pretty confident in it. But I wonder if I shouldn't just "guarantee" a fairway with a hybrid or long iron and then take my chances with a 6 or 7 iron in. 3 wood would leave me a wedge or 9 iron. Thoughts? What should my mentality be? How should I practice?[/quote]

Stop worrying about making a bad swing. Play for what you can do if you take an average swing at it.

You could get up there and play for your average swing and then take a great swing, split the fairway and hit it 20 yards longer than you ever have.

You could play a hybrid off the tee and take an awful swing and now have longer into the hole.

Play for your average swing.







RH
[/quote]

Just to answer your question, I didn't play driver for multiple reasons. First, the course I play isn't all that long (only 6400 yards from the blues), but it is very tight (trees and water crowd virtually every tee shot). Second, on the par 5 and par 4 I was discussing (17 and 18)...they are both pretty easy holes from the fairway and aren't long at all (the par 5 is reachable even with 3 wood). Also, 17 (the par 5) has trees on both sides of the tee box that crowd your tee shot quite a bit. It is hard to pick a line off that tee, and it always gives me trouble. Third, this new 3 wood I got is a bomber...my driver is probably only 20 yards longer at best. When I hit this 3 wood flush, it outdrives most of my partners drivers. Finally, I'm just way more confident with a 3 wood, and, it eliminates a variable for me because I can use it off the tee on basically every par 4 and par 5 on this course.

Sounds like you recommend that I should have played the 3 wood since I had been hitting that all day, so thanks for that advice. That was my thought process, but of course I second guessed myself after the bad outcome.

[LeftDaddy]

[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1438183026' post='12041216']
[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
So this is my dilemma...when I looked back over the scores, if I had only gotten par on the last 2 holes I would have shot 79. I am so angry at myself because 17 is an easy par 5...I could have hit 6 iron, 6 iron, wedge into that green...and 18 is a shortish par 4...could have hit hybrid, 7 iron into that green. I know all of the advice says to not worry about score, but shouldn't I have done that in this case? I guess I would have been playing "prevent defense" and possibly would have hit poor shots even with the irons off the tee, but I feel like not knowing actually made me do something dumb in this case. I hit 3 wood off of both tees, and I had been hitting 3 wood really well all day. Should I have known my score and gone into 17 and 18 with the mentality that I just have to make par (and therefore have to hit irons off the tee to ensure I find fairways)? I just feel sick over it because if I had known what I needed, I feel like I would have played different shots (even though all of the advice suggests otherwise).
[/quote]

So here's the question I pose to you: If you knew that you were already at, say, 77, before you teed off on 17, knowing that there was zero chance at breaking 80, why would your strategy be different than trying to break 80? Isn't the point to play every hole with the intention of trying to get the lowest score possible as often as possible?

The only time I would ever see changing your strategy is if you HAD to get a particular score to win a match, where the odds of making that score is pretty low (let's say, attacking a pin which otherwise you wouldn't attack).
[/quote]

Yes, if I were already at 77 I wouldn't have even thought twice about the decision.

However, I pose this back to you...if I'm 1 stroke ahead in stroke play on 17 tee box, AND 17 is a short, easy par 5 (except for a tight tee shot), and 18 is a shortish par 4...wouldn't the smart play be to make darn sure I was in the fairway on 17 at a minimum? In other words, a bogey kills me (18 isn't a birdie hole), and by swinging 3 wood I was trying to make birdie (because I can reach this par 5 with 3 wood / hybrid).

I'm not saying that is necessarily the right strategy...I'm just asking. And I go back to all of the times I've seen football teams and / or golfers lose a game / match because they played "prevent defense" a little too early, so it probably isn't the right strategy. But something tells me that the next time I play that hole (later today in fact), I need to lay back a little bit.

[jmiller2]

This is just my opinion and perspective on the mental side of the game.

[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
Should I have known my score and gone into 17 and 18 with the mentality that I just have to make par (and therefore have to hit irons off the tee to ensure I find fairways)?
[/quote]

Why would it have mattered if you knew the score or not?

Mentally, I'm more focused on my intentions for the shot and my strategy to play the current golf hole. I don't worry about results from previous holes and my total score. If that thought even comes into my head i force it out by getting even more focused on my current task.


[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
Also, another question...I played an 18 hole match the other day which ended All Square but it was too dark to continue. So we will continue play to finish the match in a day or so. How should I approach this?
[/quote]

I view it as a new match.

Regardless if it is match play or stroke play, I have a specific strategy on each hole and know what clubs to hit off each tee. I'll even know what pin locations are more favorable for me with my game to attack and which ones I need to play more middle green and away from. My strategies are in general more conservative, I like playing golf more like a chess game, piece placement in different situations to attempt to come out ahead in the end.

Net match play is a different beast, getting strokes on holes in match play is a huge a** advantage in my opinion. My game theory here is that if I can find a way to make a Par and no worse then a Bogey I have a huge chance at either winning the hole or doing no worse then a halve on the hole. Conservative strategy as the person getting the stroke on a stroke hole is a good idea in my mind. Assuming that the handicap ratings for each hole are actually accurate then it is likely on the toughest holes your opponent isn't going to Birdie, they are more likely to make Par or Bogey. So if you can make PAr or Bogey with them and halve the physical score you get the win with the net.

[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
What should my mentality be?
[/quote]

Stay with the current task, I lean on my Pre-shot Routine (PSR) process specifically the visualization of my ball flight and swing feel intentions to produce the intended ball flight. By giving my visualization my 100% attention and working through the process of hitting the shot, I'll forget all about what happened in the past and what it could mean to me in the future if I execute well.

I already know that I'm only going to have about 3-6 results that perfectly and exactly match my visualization. Golf is hard, I'm really most of the time just controlling my slight misses compared to my intentions. I look forward at each new challenge I have left myself after the result of each strike.


[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
How should I practice?
[/quote]

You can start by replaying each shot from a round of golf that was "excellent" results and feel with as much detail as possible. Then you want to move into visualizing playing a round of golf that hasn't happened yet, the course conditions, your excellent swing feel and ball flight results.

On the range, picture playing your home course and visualizing the swings and shots you want to play going through your full Pre-shot routine.

On the course employe what you practiced on the range and off the course. PSR & Visualize great outcomes and swing feels.

[LeftDaddy]

[quote name='jmiller2' timestamp='1438190290' post='12042104']
This is just my opinion and perspective on the mental side of the game.

[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
Should I have known my score and gone into 17 and 18 with the mentality that I just have to make par (and therefore have to hit irons off the tee to ensure I find fairways)?
[/quote]

Why would it have mattered if you knew the score or not?

Mentally, I'm more focused on my intentions for the shot and my strategy to play the current golf hole. I don't worry about results from previous holes and my total score. If that thought even comes into my head i force it out by getting even more focused on my current task.


[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
Also, another question...I played an 18 hole match the other day which ended All Square but it was too dark to continue. So we will continue play to finish the match in a day or so. How should I approach this?
[/quote]

I view it as a new match.

Regardless if it is match play or stroke play, I have a specific strategy on each hole and know what clubs to hit off each tee. I'll even know what pin locations are more favorable for me with my game to attack and which ones I need to play more middle green and away from. My strategies are in general more conservative, I like playing golf more like a chess game, piece placement in different situations to attempt to come out ahead in the end.

Net match play is a different beast, getting strokes on holes in match play is a huge a** advantage in my opinion. My game theory here is that if I can find a way to make a Par and no worse then a Bogey I have a huge chance at either winning the hole or doing no worse then a halve on the hole. Conservative strategy as the person getting the stroke on a stroke hole is a good idea in my mind. Assuming that the handicap ratings for each hole are actually accurate then it is likely on the toughest holes your opponent isn't going to Birdie, they are more likely to make Par or Bogey. So if you can make PAr or Bogey with them and halve the physical score you get the win with the net.

[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
What should my mentality be?
[/quote]

Stay with the current task, I lean on my Pre-shot Routine (PSR) process specifically the visualization of my ball flight and swing feel intentions to produce the intended ball flight. By giving my visualization my 100% attention and working through the process of hitting the shot, I'll forget all about what happened in the past and what it could mean to me in the future if I execute well.

I already know that I'm only going to have about 3-6 results that perfectly and exactly match my visualization. Golf is hard, I'm really most of the time just controlling my slight misses compared to my intentions. I look forward at each new challenge I have left myself after the result of each strike.


[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
How should I practice?
[/quote]

You can start by replaying each shot from a round of golf that was "excellent" results and feel with as much detail as possible. Then you want to move into visualizing playing a round of golf that hasn't happened yet, the course conditions, your excellent swing feel and ball flight results.

On the range, picture playing your home course and visualizing the swings and shots you want to play going through your full Pre-shot routine.

On the course employe what you practiced on the range and off the course. PSR & Visualize great outcomes and swing feels.
[/quote]

Thanks a ton for all of your suggestions. To answer your first question, I wasn't focused on my score at all until after I birdied 15 and it "hit" me that I was even on the back (and I knew I had a decent score on the front). I immediately thought "Oh no...forget your score...this is not good...just play the hole / shot". So I did a decent job of that, actually. I didn't look at the scorecard or try to add it up in any way. I immediately thought to the tee shot I needed to hit on 16 and I executed it perfectly. I didn't hit a great wedge shot into that green, but it was definitely a par opportunity from just off the green (but I was a little short-sided). The next shot was the first one that was a little "nervy"...I hit the pitch shot a little too hard and had a tough comeback par putt (and missed it). But ironically I had an even better mindset on the tee shot on 17...was almost 100% focused on the shot I wanted to hit, and picked a conservative line, thought I had the right club, etc. I just hit a really poor shot. I guess it happens. And I can't blame nerves too much, because I did mostly block out concerns over my score, and that was really the only truly bad shot I hit between 16 and 18. I got a bit unlucky and a bit nervy over maybe 1 or 2 shots.

I guess I'm just wondering what a good "mental game" looks like. You've given me a lot of great suggestions, by the way. Thanks again!

[jmiller2]

My first question was just a way to lead myself into my opinion on that question. The past score shouldn't effect your decision making on the current task. The one exception is match play where you are dormie and must win a hole to extend the match.

The score is something you have no real true control over especially if it is already on the card. You only have control over your thoughts to execute the current shot (task). The score just has to come to you when it presents itself when the ball hits the bottom of the cup on the hole.

Personally, when I have tried to get past milestones, I have found success mentally when my score gets into my mind with 1-4 holes left to play I'll focus on my process and the shot intentions (task) directly in front of me then repeat the process for each individual shot / putt until I'm finished. You can control your emotions and thought process, you can't really control the result after contact... You just have to roll with whatever result you get and focus on the new task you face.

Edit :: This topic and my comments about the task overlap a ton with the PSR topic ~ http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1216420-preshot-routine/

[RichieHunt]

[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438187885' post='12041800']
Sounds like you recommend that I should have played the 3 wood since I had been hitting that all day, so thanks for that advice. That was my thought process, but of course I second guessed myself after the bad outcome.
[/quote]

Yes.

If you're playing good, keep trying to hit good shots.

If you play conservatively and hit the ball well, you've essentially wasted the day that you were really clicking.

But from a statistics perspective, the game of golf is mostly offensive instead of defensive.





RH

[cdodom91]

One thing I know for certain is that pressure in ANY situation whether it be a putt to win the US open or masters or just a putt to shoot your best score yet is 100% created by the mind. A 3 foot left to right putt is still a 3 foot left to right putt. Ive watched countless times on TV seeing someone who is in contention of winning and their entire routine changes. They play fast, slower whatever it is they have changed their routine.

My best tip is to have your preshot routine set in stone and always ALWAYS execute your routine the same. It subconsciously gets your mind in the right place of hitting a shot no matter what is at stake.

[GolfinHack]

I've faced a similar dellima recently, like we all have. Standing on 17th tee needing par par to tie my best round. I made a great up and down to par the par 3 17th. I've been in situation before where I needed a par to shoot a "score" and played defense. It hurt me because I ended up taking normal routine for the hole away from myself thus leaving unfamiliar distances. Instead I chose to say "screw it" and played for a chance at eagle on the par 5 18th,. I took an aggressive line with a driver off the tee which resulted in having a middle iron into the green from a very comfortable distance. Result was a two putt birdie from 25 feet.

Sometimes, the best defense is a good offense.

[larrybud]

[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438188358' post='12041860']
[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1438183026' post='12041216']
[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
So this is my dilemma...when I looked back over the scores, if I had only gotten par on the last 2 holes I would have shot 79. I am so angry at myself because 17 is an easy par 5...I could have hit 6 iron, 6 iron, wedge into that green...and 18 is a shortish par 4...could have hit hybrid, 7 iron into that green. I know all of the advice says to not worry about score, but shouldn't I have done that in this case? I guess I would have been playing "prevent defense" and possibly would have hit poor shots even with the irons off the tee, but I feel like not knowing actually made me do something dumb in this case. I hit 3 wood off of both tees, and I had been hitting 3 wood really well all day. Should I have known my score and gone into 17 and 18 with the mentality that I just have to make par (and therefore have to hit irons off the tee to ensure I find fairways)? I just feel sick over it because if I had known what I needed, I feel like I would have played different shots (even though all of the advice suggests otherwise).
[/quote]

So here's the question I pose to you: If you knew that you were already at, say, 77, before you teed off on 17, knowing that there was zero chance at breaking 80, why would your strategy be different than trying to break 80? Isn't the point to play every hole with the intention of trying to get the lowest score possible as often as possible?

The only time I would ever see changing your strategy is if you HAD to get a particular score to win a match, where the odds of making that score is pretty low (let's say, attacking a pin which otherwise you wouldn't attack).
[/quote]

Yes, if I were already at 77 I wouldn't have even thought twice about the decision.

However, I pose this back to you...if I'm 1 stroke ahead in stroke play on 17 tee box, AND 17 is a short, easy par 5 (except for a tight tee shot), and 18 is a shortish par 4...wouldn't the smart play be to make darn sure I was in the fairway on 17 at a minimum? In other words, a bogey kills me (18 isn't a birdie hole), and by swinging 3 wood I was trying to make birdie (because I can reach this par 5 with 3 wood / hybrid).

I'm not saying that is necessarily the right strategy...I'm just asking. And I go back to all of the times I've seen football teams and / or golfers lose a game / match because they played "prevent defense" a little too early, so it probably isn't the right strategy. But something tells me that the next time I play that hole (later today in fact), I need to lay back a little bit.
[/quote]

But if that's the case, why wouldn't you ALWAYS make sure you're in the fairway at a minimum on 17? I mean, if playing safe off the tee gives you the best chance at the lowest score most often, why wouldn't you always do that?

[t-bone]

You have to stay playing in the manner that got you to the situation. If your strategy had been working why change it and go defensive? Most people that fail to finish out a round that's gone beyond their expectation start trying to protect it and hitting 3/4 even though they hadn't hit 3/4 shots leading up to it. It's better to fail trusting it than to fail trying avoid failure...

[ofortuna]

[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1438366196' post='12055238']
[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438188358' post='12041860']
[quote name='larrybud' timestamp='1438183026' post='12041216']
[quote name='LeftDaddy' timestamp='1438138570' post='12038970']
So this is my dilemma...when I looked back over the scores, if I had only gotten par on the last 2 holes I would have shot 79. I am so angry at myself because 17 is an easy par 5...I could have hit 6 iron, 6 iron, wedge into that green...and 18 is a shortish par 4...could have hit hybrid, 7 iron into that green. I know all of the advice says to not worry about score, but shouldn't I have done that in this case? I guess I would have been playing "prevent defense" and possibly would have hit poor shots even with the irons off the tee, but I feel like not knowing actually made me do something dumb in this case. I hit 3 wood off of both tees, and I had been hitting 3 wood really well all day. Should I have known my score and gone into 17 and 18 with the mentality that I just have to make par (and therefore have to hit irons off the tee to ensure I find fairways)? I just feel sick over it because if I had known what I needed, I feel like I would have played different shots (even though all of the advice suggests otherwise).
[/quote]

So here's the question I pose to you: If you knew that you were already at, say, 77, before you teed off on 17, knowing that there was zero chance at breaking 80, why would your strategy be different than trying to break 80? Isn't the point to play every hole with the intention of trying to get the lowest score possible as often as possible?

The only time I would ever see changing your strategy is if you HAD to get a particular score to win a match, where the odds of making that score is pretty low (let's say, attacking a pin which otherwise you wouldn't attack).
[/quote]

Yes, if I were already at 77 I wouldn't have even thought twice about the decision.

However, I pose this back to you...if I'm 1 stroke ahead in stroke play on 17 tee box, AND 17 is a short, easy par 5 (except for a tight tee shot), and 18 is a shortish par 4...wouldn't the smart play be to make darn sure I was in the fairway on 17 at a minimum? In other words, a bogey kills me (18 isn't a birdie hole), and by swinging 3 wood I was trying to make birdie (because I can reach this par 5 with 3 wood / hybrid).

I'm not saying that is necessarily the right strategy...I'm just asking. And I go back to all of the times I've seen football teams and / or golfers lose a game / match because they played "prevent defense" a little too early, so it probably isn't the right strategy. But something tells me that the next time I play that hole (later today in fact), I need to lay back a little bit.
[/quote]

But if that's the case, why wouldn't you ALWAYS make sure you're in the fairway at a minimum on 17? I mean, if playing safe off the tee gives you the best chance at the lowest score most often, why wouldn't you always do that?
[/quote]

My first reaction was that this reasoning was pure genius. But then I realized that playing a very safe fairway shot centers your distribution closer to par, making bogeys and birdies less likely. An aggressive tee shot puts birdies and bogeys more in play. However I would think a "short easy par 5" you should always bomb unless ob/water/jail is in play.

[596]

Here's my take. Easier said then done.

You are worrying about the mental game. That's where the mental game comes from, worrying. Take your brain out of the equation and just play golf. You only have to practice the mental game when you worry about it, don't, just play the game the way you know how and accept the results. Your golf game does the scoring not your brain.

On the other side...................play full shots on each swing when you know the mental game is creeping in. Don't play half and "feel" shots, they won't work at this point. Play a full shot to a safe spot and move on.

[LeftDaddy]

Update on this: I faced almost this same situation again today, except I needed 3 pars on 16-18. I had made par on every hole from 9-15 at that point.

I wouldn't have even had to really worry about it too much, except for a triple on 8 from a greenside bunker (took 3 shots to get out).

Anyway, I wasn't so much focused on making 79 at 16, but I did know exactly where I stood. I was more "nervous" about shooting even par on the back than 79, actually. I focused purely on making a good swing off the tee on 16, hit a good one but pulled it a bit into fairway bunker. Tough lie led to a bogey.

So I go to 17 needing a birdie. I decided to hit that 3 wood again. I didn't hit a great shot...pulled it again, but actually was only in the right rough. Unfortunately I had a brutal lie but recovered OK, but hit my approach into a greenside bunker and took 2 shots to get out...double.

I then bogeyed 18 due to a push off the tee but an otherwise pretty good shot. So I finish bogey, double, bogey for an 83. Something definitely "happened" to me, but I actually handled my nerves well and focused on hitting a good shot, visualizing a good shot, and stuck to my routine. But something caused me to hit relatively poor tee shots, but I don't really know what it was. Maybe the "outcome" was too front of mind, rather than the "process".

Oh well...if I had just made a few more putts, and if I could have escaped those 2 bunkers, I would have shot 75. I'm bummed, but not as much as the other day. I apparently need work out of greenside bunkers (which is weird because I don't normally have so much trouble out of them).