So what is it? Laying off or tumbling over?

[Golfbeat]

[Slothead]

either way works. if you go over, something is going to have to slow down to square things up because the face becomes more closed to the body and something in the body will slow. if allowing the weight to fall back as shown that would assist in the trail leg down load and feeling that weight behind is what puts motor into the body as the face becomes more open to the body. what one does with the weight back in the 3rd dimension is what makes for many golf related discussions.

[Golf nerd]

Do me a favor and do this (Video) at home and tell me what you feel.
Try to feel what the vertical push with the right hand feels like in terms of 5 pound weight and/or inertia of the club.
Try to feel what is happening in terms of release and force you have to apply.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJDxI8CWAxU[/media]

[modore]

This drill seems to speed up the right arm.

[FatReed]

[quote name='Golf nerd' timestamp='1441643088' post='12275944']
Do me a favor and do this (Video) at home and tell me what you feel.
Try to feel what the vertical push with the right hand feels like in terms of 5 pound weight and/or inertia of the club.
Try to feel what is happening in terms of release and force you have to apply.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJDxI8CWAxU[/media]
[/quote]

GolfNerd,

Wonderful.

For some that trail arm 'push' might be good tonic. For others, a good 'pull' could prove good medicine.

Either way, that drill really gives a feel for the motion.

[FatReed]

[quote name='modore' timestamp='1445372235' post='12483644']
[quote name='Golf nerd' timestamp='1441643088' post='12275944']
Do me a favor and do this (Video) at home and tell me what you feel.
Try to feel what the vertical push with the right hand feels like in terms of 5 pound weight and/or inertia of the club.
Try to feel what is happening in terms of release and force you have to apply.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJDxI8CWAxU[/media]
[/quote]

This drill seems to speed up the right arm.
[/quote]

Modore, what you feel is angular momentum.

[thekru]

[quote name='modore' timestamp='1445372235' post='12483644']
[quote name='Golf nerd' timestamp='1441643088' post='12275944']
Do me a favor and do this (Video) at home and tell me what you feel.
Try to feel what the vertical push with the right hand feels like in terms of 5 pound weight and/or inertia of the club.
Try to feel what is happening in terms of release and force you have to apply.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJDxI8CWAxU[/media]
[/quote]

This drill seems to speed up the right arm.
[/quote]

Shank City here we come.

[Ted Williams]

[quote name='thekru' timestamp='1445386927' post='12484802']
[quote name='modore' timestamp='1445372235' post='12483644']
[quote name='Golf nerd' timestamp='1441643088' post='12275944']
Do me a favor and do this (Video) at home and tell me what you feel.
Try to feel what the vertical push with the right hand feels like in terms of 5 pound weight and/or inertia of the club.
Try to feel what is happening in terms of release and force you have to apply.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJDxI8CWAxU[/media]
[/quote]

This drill seems to speed up the right arm.
[/quote]

Shank City here we come.
[/quote]
Agree/that is the worst drill I have ever watched.

[i*windows]

@Ted Williams, its not a drill, just a demonstration of the different forces

[Millbrook]

I've had a few shanks trying the Malasky approach.

I think as a flipper you have to remember that he talks about the initial move 'offseting the forces' and gets you into a position to 'turn the club into the ball' whereas flippers get the club down and behind then flip at the ball.

If you remove the flip but don't turn into the ball then there is a good chance of a shank which maybe why the comments about the other video are being made. However that video demonstrates forces and is not an example of a real swing or even a drill - there is no turn into the ball.

To address the OPs question in the title - I'm not sure about the tumbling over. I get 'the hands move down and the club moves out' which for me comes from a feeling of how the arms move but if I try tumbling through a move in the hands it gets confusing.

[Ted Williams]

[quote name='FatReed' timestamp='1445382904' post='12484462']
[quote name='modore' timestamp='1445372235' post='12483644']
[quote name='Golf nerd' timestamp='1441643088' post='12275944']
Do me a favor and do this (Video) at home and tell me what you feel.
Try to feel what the vertical push with the right hand feels like in terms of 5 pound weight and/or inertia of the club.
Try to feel what is happening in terms of release and force you have to apply.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJDxI8CWAxU[/media]
[/quote]

This drill seems to speed up the right arm.
[/quote]

Modore, what you feel is angular momentum.
[/quote]

No need for this.We are all 1 to 2" inches away from all being great

[Golf nerd]

[quote name='i*windows' timestamp='1445410712' post='12486172'] @Ted Williams, its not a drill, just a demonstration of the different forces [/quote]

You nailed it.
Nothing you do intentionally in the golf swing.

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='Golf nerd' timestamp='1445961703' post='12513172']
[quote name='i*windows' timestamp='1445410712' post='12486172'] @Ted Williams, its not a drill, just a demonstration of the different forces [/quote]

You nailed it.
Nothing you do intentionally in the golf swing.
[/quote]You posted that video last year and I found it interesting.Demonstrates a steep arm action with a shallow shaft at the same time.This is something Hughes preaches.

[FatReed]

Yes Gray, and what others have demonstrated previously as well. . . the below video has been presented before, but it is right on topic.

http://youtu.be/iuJaSM7Kexw

[russc1597187869]

The elbow move quiz
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPj4lmHKL4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=aQPj4lmHKL4[/url]

[russc1597187869]

Downswing drill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSC-uIpwc1M

[Ted Williams]

[quote name='FatReed' timestamp='1445963633' post='12513354']
Yes Gray, and what others have demonstrated previously as well. . . the below video has been presented before, but it is right on topic.

http://youtu.be/iuJaSM7Kexw
[/quote]
Bingo

[jbw749]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1445969851' post='12513950']
The elbow move quiz
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPj4lmHKL4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=aQPj4lmHKL4[/url]
[/quote]

I'm not understanding what this has to do with the malaska thread. Malaska is teaching forces which can't be seen on 2D videos.

[Pinsplitter59]

Forces are such nonsense.
That Hogan bloke showed us , in slow motion, how to move theclub head through impact.
Note that it seems to be all about the right forearm.
[attachment=3010990:Hogan_rightarm_slowmo.gif]
That Snead bloke did much the same.
Of course if you're a modern up and down swinger you're gonna struggle.
These guys learned to move the shaft on the shaft plane.

[Ted Williams]

@pinsplitter :/:also keep in mind that Hogan/Snead used equipment that needed excess forearm rotation.Todays modern tech isn't as high maintenance and more forgiving.So modern up and down swingers are doing just fine

[Slothead]

how about laying over and tumbling off

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='jbw749' timestamp='1446003362' post='12516786']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1445969851' post='12513950']
The elbow move quiz
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPj4lmHKL4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=aQPj4lmHKL4[/url]
[/quote]

I'm not understanding what this has to do with the malaska thread. Malaska is teaching forces which can't be seen on 2D videos.
[/quote]
Almost all pros shallow during early transition or a little later.They do it via a combination of right shoulder external rotation and right arm adduction(arm moving closer to the body) as shown in the "elbow move quiz".The tumble involves a motion that is almost the opposite,internal rotation and supination in mid -downswing.The downswing takes only from .25-.30 of a second.Not easy to perform a motion that is almost the opposite of a previous one in a very short period of time.

[Golfbeat]

What is more important, to shallow the shaft or to shallow the club head?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Pinsplitter59' timestamp='1446013870' post='12517074']
Forces are such nonsense.
That Hogan bloke showed us , in slow motion, how to move theclub head through impact.
Note that it seems to be all about the right forearm.
[/quote]

Hey Pin,

5L, pg 99 - the old two handed basketball pass. Vid looks just like the 3 position book sequence. And, "YOU MUST HIT AS HARD WITH THE LEFT AS WITH THE RIGHT", so it's not all just about the right forearm.

[jbw749]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1446053928' post='12518962']
[quote name='jbw749' timestamp='1446003362' post='12516786']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1445969851' post='12513950']
The elbow move quiz
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPj4lmHKL4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=aQPj4lmHKL4[/url]
[/quote]

I'm not understanding what this has to do with the malaska thread. Malaska is teaching forces which can't be seen on 2D videos.
[/quote]
Almost all pros shallow during early transition or a little later.They do it via a combination of right shoulder external rotation and right arm adduction(arm moving closer to the body) as shown in the "elbow move quiz".The tumble involves a motion that is almost the opposite,internal rotation and supination in mid -downswing.The downswing takes only from .25-.30 of a second.Not easy to perform a motion that is almost the opposite of a previous one in a very short period of time.
[/quote]

The shallowing move is not universal, unless each person has a carbon copy backswing. Where the club is at the top can change how much or little shallowing you need. Shallowing probably feels completely different for each person.

I think you need a shallowing move and a steepening move. The shallowing move can start before the backswing even stops. The shallowing move (whatever it is for the individual) then blends into the steepening move of lead arm rotating in while clubhead working out. It feels like one fluid motion and there's plenty of time.

I've been down both paths. Trying to jam by right elbow infront and swinging to right field. And tumbling right from the top and getting too steep. I think you just need a little of both. But getting the clubhead working out after the transition by rotation of the lead forarm and not pulling towards the target is what I think needs to be jammed home out of all this.


I hate trying to sound like I'm some expert, because I'm not. But I've been working on this as long as anyone so take it for what it's worth.

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='jbw749' timestamp='1446130629' post='12523344']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1446053928' post='12518962']
[quote name='jbw749' timestamp='1446003362' post='12516786']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1445969851' post='12513950']
The elbow move quiz
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPj4lmHKL4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=aQPj4lmHKL4[/url]
[/quote]

I'm not understanding what this has to do with the malaska thread. Malaska is teaching forces which can't be seen on 2D videos.
[/quote]
Almost all pros shallow during early transition or a little later.They do it via a combination of right shoulder external rotation and right arm adduction(arm moving closer to the body) as shown in the "elbow move quiz".The tumble involves a motion that is almost the opposite,internal rotation and supination in mid -downswing.The downswing takes only from .25-.30 of a second.Not easy to perform a motion that is almost the opposite of a previous one in a very short period of time.
[/quote]

The shallowing move is not universal, unless each person has a carbon copy backswing. Where the club is at the top can change how much or little shallowing you need. Shallowing probably feels completely different for each person.

I think you need a shallowing move and a steepening move. The shallowing move can start before the backswing even stops. The shallowing move (whatever it is for the individual) then blends into the steepening move of lead arm rotating in while clubhead working out. It feels like one fluid motion and there's plenty of time.

I've been down both paths. Trying to jam by right elbow infront and swinging to right field. And tumbling right from the top and getting too steep. I think you just need a little of both. But getting the clubhead working out after the transition by rotation of the lead forarm and not pulling towards the target is what I think needs to be jammed home out of all this.


I hate trying to sound like I'm some expert, because I'm not. But I've been working on this as long as anyone so take it for what it's worth.
[/quote]
You are correct that many golfers do shallow during the backswing via pronation of the left forearm.This places less of a burden on shallowing ONLY during transition but except in rare cases does not completely eliminate the need for some further shallowing via right shoulder external rotation in transition.