Integrity Golf Company in Orlando

[Lionstar]

It seems as if this company has either purchased or is otherwise managing dozens of courses in the Orlando area. Some of these courses include Celebration, Orange County National,Metrowest,Eagle Creek and many other Orlando favorites. It seems as if the morale and general atmosphere of these and other Integrity managed courses has noticeably declined in the past year. I also understand that many employees of these courses are disgruntled, dejected and generally uninspired. In short, the "fun" atmosphere I enjoyed at these courses over the past decade or so is dissolving for both the guests and employees. Do any of you in the Orlando area notice these changes or any other? Any insight on what is going on here? I'm very concerned for the future of golf in Orlando when one company has control over so may courses in Orlando.

[RichieHunt]

[quote name='Lionstar' timestamp='1450712041' post='12746922']
It seems as if this company has either purchased or is otherwise managing dozens of courses in the Orlando area. Some of these courses include Celebration, Orange County National,Metrowest,Eagle Creek and many other Orlando favorites. It seems as if the morale and general atmosphere of these and other Integrity managed courses has noticeably declined in the past year. I also understand that many employees of these courses are disgruntled, dejected and generally uninspired. In short, the "fun" atmosphere I enjoyed at these courses over the past decade or so is dissolving for both the guests and employees. Do any of you in the Orlando area notice these changes or any other? Any insight on what is going on here? I'm very concerned for the future of golf in Orlando when one company has control over so may courses in Orlando.
[/quote]

This generally happens in the golf industry.

I say this a lot....golf courses have 2 major problems.

1) They are run by career golf people who have never been a part of any successful business venture in their life. So, they don't know how to get people to show up to the course, spend money at the course and get them to come back to the course to spend more money.


2) Or they are run by people that have been a part of successful business ventures that are clueless about golf and are not in touch with what golfers want so they will show up to the course, spend money at the course and get them to come back to the course to spend more money.


I know Integrity took over one course and one of the popular pros quit because his pay was going to be cut in half. And I'm sure these guys and gals are working 60+ hours a week and the last thing they want to do is go out and play golf because you get sick and tired of the golf course.

So, it's not just Integrity...it's the golf course industry in general. When I moved to Orlando I became a member at Eastwood and they had a kid that came in from Utah and immediately put him on 12 hour work shifts and getting 2 days off a month. He hightailed it out of there after 3 months.






RH

[Lionstar]

Watching what is happening at Orange County National, Metrowest and other courses in Orlando under this company's management is very sad. When you pull into the parking lot at OCN and Celebration you see parking signs reserved for 3 or 4 individuals with the same last name as if they were celebrities or world leaders. It really speaks loudly to their mentality. For those of you who just play here in Orlando periodically on a vacation or golf trip it may not be as disturbing, but it is noticeable. Lack of concern for the golfer beyond his money is not a good long term business strategy.

[crazy8golfer]

Lionstar, As RichieHunt said, it's not just in Orlando. The 3 clubs that I have been a member at in Georgia over the last 25+ years have become the same way. Once they get you to become a member you are forgotten, they are on to the next person.

[RichieHunt]

One of the big issues is that the golf course is no longer a social venue for people. I grew up on a public course with a membership of roughly 250 members and it was one of the most profitable courses I have ever came across. That's because it was a social venue for people to go to. They did it with their restaurant and used the golf course to help bring people to the restaurant. But....they created an atmosphere where people looked forward to coming to the course...even non-golfers....to hang out.

Brandel Chamblee did a blog post on this a while ago and I think he is spot-on. The club pros and instructors hardly ever play golf these days. They are hardly ever on the golf course because the bean counters want them logging in 70+ hours a week at $25k a year salaries.

In Brandel's day (and mine), the club pro would play the game and actually had to be good at the game. Golfers..in general...enjoy playing with good golfers. And if you had a club pro that could play and was a friendly personality and would play with members from time to time...it sold the course to the people as a place to go to because you could have a fun time. And many of those club pros were legitimate local legends. As Byron Nelson once told Ken Venturi '[i]Always ask what the course record was and who shot it. If it was the club pro, don't break the record because you're playing on his home course.'[/i]

People in general like to know what makes experts in a field, tick. We don't get that on today's courses because so many of the club pros are not even experts and the ones that are...rarely get to play. They just because another face..then they quit to work somewhere else and another blank face is added and it makes the course vibe very impersonal.

Also, if the club pro is out there playing golf, then they can start to gather what the rest of the golfers see. If there's a ball washer that always has no water in it...they wouldn't know that until they got out there and played and tried to use the ball washer. Or if there is a certain golfer that plays the course a lot and always scuffs the greens with his feet, you can see that issue and resolve it.

The courses in Orlando are a bit different since many of them don't have memberships and will always rely on public play to stay afloat. But, the same principle applies and if courses actually used these principles, maybe they could start to generate an interest in a membership instead of just expecting people to pay for a membership just because you offer one.







RH

[crazy8golfer]

[quote name='RichieHunt' timestamp='1450730062' post='12748322']
One of the big issues is that the golf course is no longer a social venue for people. I grew up on a public course with a membership of roughly 250 members and it was one of the most profitable courses I have ever came across. That's because it was a social venue for people to go to. They did it with their restaurant and used the golf course to help bring people to the restaurant. But....they created an atmosphere where people looked forward to coming to the course...even non-golfers....to hang out.

Brandel Chamblee did a blog post on this a while ago and I think he is spot-on. The club pros and instructors hardly ever play golf these days. They are hardly ever on the golf course because the bean counters want them logging in 70+ hours a week at $25k a year salaries.

In Brandel's day (and mine), the club pro would play the game and actually had to be good at the game. Golfers..in general...enjoy playing with good golfers. And if you had a club pro that could play and was a friendly personality and would play with members from time to time...it sold the course to the people as a place to go to because you could have a fun time. And many of those club pros were legitimate local legends. As Byron Nelson once told Ken Venturi '[i]Always ask what the course record was and who shot it. If it was the club pro, don't break the record because you're playing on his home course.'[/i]

People in general like to know what makes experts in a field, tick. We don't get that on today's courses because so many of the club pros are not even experts and the ones that are...rarely get to play. They just because another face..then they quit to work somewhere else and another blank face is added and it makes the course vibe very impersonal.

Also, if the club pro is out there playing golf, then they can start to gather what the rest of the golfers see. If there's a ball washer that always has no water in it...they wouldn't know that until they got out there and played and tried to use the ball washer. Or if there is a certain golfer that plays the course a lot and always scuffs the greens with his feet, you can see that issue and resolve it.

The courses in Orlando are a bit different since many of them don't have memberships and will always rely on public play to stay afloat. But, the same principle applies and if courses actually used these principles, maybe they could start to generate an interest in a membership instead of just expecting people to pay for a membership just because you offer one.







RH
[/quote]
Excellent Statement

[mwmgolfx]

I agree 100%. Very very well phrased. I will say that Integrity does spend some money on the course appearance, maybe too much. They want the course to be super green (almost water too much in my opinion as the courses at times are soggy from overwatering). But correspondingly, they do tend to shortchange the staff a lot. i've heard the staff complaining about some things and almost wonder if lawsuits for discriminatory practices are coming. Certainly not conclusive to retaining staff. And staff turnover hurts the perception of the course in the locals mind. With tourists, they don't care, but repeat players do care.

[lincolnduff]

I agree that courses taken over by larger companies tend to decline a bit in customer service for regulars. The think I would say is that those courses in Orlando, specifically Celebration and OCN are both played 80% by tourist. I do believe they still do a good job greeting, getting players off on time, and making sure your round goes well. Also, I'm not sure why it is bad to have two or three reserved spots for the Davis family, most courses have reserved spots for club president and club champ anyway.

[golfandfishing]

[quote name='lincolnduff' timestamp='1450884725' post='12755620']
I agree that courses taken over by larger companies tend to decline a bit in customer service for regulars. The think I would say is that those courses in Orlando, specifically Celebration and OCN are both played 80% by tourist. I do believe they still do a good job greeting, getting players off on time, and making sure your round goes well. Also, I'm not sure why it is bad to have two or three reserved spots for the Davis family, most courses have reserved spots for club president and club champ anyway.
[/quote]

Club president or club champ is an honor and those people are customers. When your parking lot is shared by staff and customers and you place the ownership ahead of customers this comes off as arrogant, unappreciative and disrespectful. There is only one boss in business- the customer. Ownership can park in the woods, and good business owners know this already.

[golfer523]

i live and work in orlando. have worked at 3 different high end courses here. no one wants to go work for a course run by any management company. period. and yes they have all gone down hill to some extent.

[EKELLY]

[quote name='RichieHunt' timestamp='1450712602' post='12746968']
[quote name='Lionstar' timestamp='1450712041' post='12746922']
It seems as if this company has either purchased or is otherwise managing dozens of courses in the Orlando area. Some of these courses include Celebration, Orange County National,Metrowest,Eagle Creek and many other Orlando favorites. It seems as if the morale and general atmosphere of these and other Integrity managed courses has noticeably declined in the past year. I also understand that many employees of these courses are disgruntled, dejected and generally uninspired. In short, the "fun" atmosphere I enjoyed at these courses over the past decade or so is dissolving for both the guests and employees. Do any of you in the Orlando area notice these changes or any other? Any insight on what is going on here? I'm very concerned for the future of golf in Orlando when one company has control over so may courses in Orlando.
[/quote]

This generally happens in the golf industry.

I say this a lot....golf courses have 2 major problems.

1) They are run by career golf people who have never been a part of any successful business venture in their life. So, they don't know how to get people to show up to the course, spend money at the course and get them to come back to the course to spend more money.


2) Or they are run by people that have been a part of successful business ventures that are clueless about golf and are not in touch with what golfers want so they will show up to the course, spend money at the course and get them to come back to the course to spend more money.


I know Integrity took over one course and one of the popular pros quit because his pay was going to be cut in half. And I'm sure these guys and gals are working 60+ hours a week and the last thing they want to do is go out and play golf because you get sick and tired of the golf course.

So, it's not just Integrity...it's the golf course industry in general. When I moved to Orlando I became a member at Eastwood and they had a kid that came in from Utah and immediately put him on 12 hour work shifts and getting 2 days off a month. He hightailed it out of there after 3 months.






RH
[/quote]I played some mini-tour events at Eastwood years ago......Used to be near perfect all the time....Perfect greens.....Of course, that was 20 years ago...

The golf business looks cute from the outside looking in....It's NOT!!.....