Maryvale Renovation Review

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Had a chance to play Maryvale today for the first time since the renovation was completed. I had very high hopes for this renovation, the core of the course was a solid building block that had become outdated and needed to be brought up to the modern game standards especially for a tournament course for GCU. Most of the original layout is as it was the majority of the renovation involved removing trees, rebuilding green complexes, adding bunkers (much more on this later) and a few new tee boxes. Of course the new clubhouse.

 

Condition wise it is very very good, new lush grass wall to wall, new green surfaces are extremely hard and for at least the first year you will need to play your shots accordingly. EX I landed a perfectly struck high 56* full shot, I landed 6 inches from the pin into a slight up slope, I ended up 15 feet past the hole. Greens are true dormant bermuda they have not been painted so they have a deep purple hue to them. Dont let that bug you they roll very very good.

 

Starting with the new clubhouse and shop looks good from the outside pretty meh on the inside, shop is sparse with only some GCU logo gear. Nice entry, restrooms tucked away in the corner. Did not go into the restaurant. I did notice they had security at the entrance to the parking lot and also at the clubhouse entry.

 

 

The course itself,

 

1. Largely unchanged tee moved back a tad where the old chipping green used to be, Trees removed down the left, bunkers added on right and left side.

 

 

Look on the 2nd still gives you a window to get home in 2

 

Approach from about 150

 

 

The 2nd, here is where some of my complaints come into play and this will be a theme repeated many times.

 

Still plays 200ish but for what ever reason the bunkers you see short of the green are about 20-30 yards short of the green and functionally useless other that to collect hackers golf balls and slow down play.

 

 

3rd No tee shot pic but the trees cleared out on the right new bunkers added left green elevated with bunkers left and right, they did maintain some of the slope designs from the original green

 

4 tee Par 3 very similar shot to the original hole, except the water has been brought into play more with the new green and banking that would reject anything short

 

 

5 trees removed and bunker built up on the right side. Easy to lay up short of it and still have wedge

 

One of the worst greens on the course now. Only 3 locations that should realistically have a pin.

 

6 tee still holds the original shape trees removed on right bunkers added. What was kind of a fun risk reward is now most likely a 5 iron wedge 9 iron to play away from the bunkers down the right and worry about going long into the lake. Unless you would like to leave yourself a 60-80 yard bunker shot.

 

 

7 tee more relatively pointless cross bunkering added for the sole purpose to keep the college guys from hitting driver 340 not in play for most of the clientele at the course being about 270 or so out. Will be a problem for those muni guys who hit a bad drive leave themselves 200+ in then hit a bad 2nd right into those bunkers again slowing down play

 

 

A closer look at the cross bunkers, I am the furthest ball up after hitting a 3 wood 240

 

9 is pretty much the same except a bit longer and new bunker added short of the green to make it harder to get home in two

 

10. Did not get any pics but now a long par 4. retained original idea of back to front sloping green but not as severe. They have another cross bunker well short of the green that again is not in play for the tournament player or decent golfer, but the high cappers wont be able to roll up 3 woods on to the green with the cross bunkers and again a useless bunker slows down play.

 

11: Pretty much the same note the bunker short left also not in play to the tourney player or better golfer

 

12 pretty similar hole new tournament tee is way way back there at the edge of the SW corner of the property. Really good long par 5 now. New bunker on left side will be a popular landing spot

 

But if you carry that bunker you will be rewarded with a great look to get home in two

 

 

13. Stil a pretty solid short par 4 new bunkers make you choose to really go for it and hit up close to the green or lay way back vs the old bomb and gouge layout.

 

14: Lake significantly smaller now trees removed from left side new bunker left and bunkers right.

 

Approach from left if you pull your tee shot and get lucky to stay dry

 

15 tee you can really see how much smaller the lake is. FWY bunker right easily carryable bunker left in range if your playing right tees, but plenty of room right

 

 

 

16 tee,

 

Tourney tee moved way back into that old grove of trees, same original hole shape. I have no idea why they did this but the left has been cleared out and they put a short game practice area in for GCU. It is literally right in range of tee shots over cooked left. Someone is going to get pelted if they do not put up a net to protect players.

 

 

17 tee, green moved closer to water green elevated a bit more. Another really useless bunker well short and left of the green again only making things harder and slower for the high indexes, not in play for better players

 

 

For some reason I did not get many shots of green complexes mostly trying not to hold up play, but pretty much all are elevated now with run offs, short siding yourself out there will be death unless you can flop it like Phil. Here is 17 green

 

 

18 pretty similar to the old maybe a bit longer

 

 

Approach with another bunker well short and not in play

 

 

 

This course and review is a bit Bi-Polar, If I review it from a better players perspective it is for the most part a fortified version of the old Maryvale, much tougher off the tee and need to hit solid shots into the greens to have good birdie looks. Short game is going to be critical with the elevated green complexes.

 

Here is the other side to that story .

 

The course is still a muni 1st and tournament course for GCU 2nd, Many of the changes that were made are going to create huge problems with pace of play. I am having a hard time figuring out where the 10 Million went. It seems like they just added bunkers for the sake of adding bunkers.

Ultimately many of them will never ever be in play except those who hit exceptionally bad shots. Because it is a muni I worry about maintaining all those bunkers in the long run. Most are very deep and if they do not take care of them and they turn into hardpan it will be Southern Dunes 2011-2014 all over again. Utimately it is a double edged sword. While the course looks better and presents a bigger challenge to the better player, those that venture out to play it are going to suffer slow play issues and long rounds because of those changes. If you are going to go out and play I highly suggest being in the first few groups off.

 

 

Bottom line is they missed a golden opportunity to fortify the course while making it playable via the ground game and for higher index players. Think Southern Dunes and Camelback Ambiente both of those courses are similar in some ways now. However both of those courses provide a challenge and allow higher index players to utilize the ground without cross bunkering and randomly placed bunkers that should never be in play.

 

 

 

OPB's note I did not take into consideration the firmness of the greens in my review because that will be temporary, after the first punch they should become more receptive to shots. I actually really enjoyed all the greens except number 5

[Arizonalefty59]

Damn good write up!

[dtm6582]

Thanks for posting this hole by hole review. I played it last weekend with a couple guys who are 30+ handicaps (I played that day to about a 12 but my ball striking was good, very bad putting). I witnessed exactly what you're describing. A bunch of those bunkers that aren't in play for better ball strikers are a big issue for the high handicap players. And it really slowed us down. Thankfully we were a 3-some and pace was slow. Because if it wasn't we would have been slowing the course down.

 

I had mixed opinions after playing it too. It's great to see the course in such great shape. Really, really great. I've never seen it look like that. But I'm worried about the long term maintenance of all those bunkers. Plus pace of play. And when we walked off I was trying to tally up the 10 million too. I figure close to half of that must have gone into the club house and restaurant (I think they have a restaurant, forgot to look).

 

I told one of my playing partners when we left that someone must have started with a map of the old course. Taken a big drink of beer. Sneezed with their mouth full. And then used that as a template for the new bunkering.

[YMark]

Excellent review. Thanks for the write-up.

[fore_life]

Thank you Matt, great review. I'll try to add my 2 cents once I get out there next week, I'm really hoping I like it, it's such a sentimental place for me.

 

Sounds like they didn't ruin it though

[wcb231]

I wonder (and kind of hope) if once the hype of a new course opening dies down and we get through tourist season/spring training that things return to more of a normal pace schedule. But yeah, putting a bunch of bunkers in the exact spot a hack is going to take 3 to get out of isn't going to help speed through rounds.

 

I'll be out there on the 24th with a bunch of others from here, and I'm interested to see it up close.

[fore_life]

Worse case at least we can still go eat at Popo's after

[LAWLESS23]

Popo's!

[fore_life]

Thread blessed by a guest appearance from my brother! ?

[isaacbm]

Played with oneputtblunder today. We were somewhat perplexed all day.just really bad bunker positioning on probably 5 holes.

But it was incredibly lush and the greens will likely be great after a few punches. Really smooth but concrete.

I went in the restaurant and it's actually quite nice!

The clubhouse in general is nice in that it's new but it does have an industrial feel to it.

 

As far as $10,000,000 goes:

 

18 greens at $100000 each

 

Clubhouse maybe $3,000,000?

 

Tree removal $300000?

 

Am I at $10,000,000 yet?

 

Reseeding/ some additional irrigation?

 

 

You've got me!!

[fore_life]

Security guard earns 2.4 mil/year

[dtm6582]

Security guard earns 2.4 mil/year

 

That's almost enough to make the boredom of that profession worthwhile.

[AzSuperHack76]

Security guard earns 2.4 mil/year

 

Well, it is Maryvale..... Dude is earning that!

[Olson12]

Nobody has seen the players lounge yet. Maybe the toilet paper is 100 dollar bills and there 100 flat screens, fancy furniture, a butler or two... you never know

[ferrispgm]

Great review! I'm heading out there Monday morning and looking forward to it. I've never had the chance to play Maryvale before this changes so it will be my first time. I'll try and post some comments on Tuesday.

 

Question....do they have a decent practice area? I was debating getting there maybe an hour and a half early to practice a bit before i play but i don't want to show up early like i did at Arizona Grand once and sip coffee for two hours lol

[isaacbm]

Grass range with good balls. Big putting green. Didn't see a short game green...

[Olson12]

The short game area is left of number 16 fairway in the trees lol. I'm assuming that is for the team to practice.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

The short game area is left of number 16 fairway in the trees lol. I'm assuming that is for the team to practice.

 

Isaacbm and I are well aware of that. In fact we stopped by real quick to say hi and hit our 2nd shots hahaha

[Olson12]

The short game area is left of number 16 fairway in the trees lol. I'm assuming that is for the team to practice.

 

Isaacbm and I are well aware of that. In fact we stopped by real quick to say hi and hit our 2nd shots hahaha

 

I purposely went that way thinking it was a shortcut. I was wrong.

[ferrispgm]

I finally was able to get out and play Maryvale for the first time ever on Monday. Personally, I liked the course a lot. I would say that I like Papago more but I thought overall the course was solid. The greens were in great shape and rolled smoothly, the fairways were, for the most part, in good shape with some bald/dirt patches scattered throughout but all in all I really can't complain about the conditioning. I definitely agree with OPB about some of the bunkering. It definitely seems as though bunkers were maybe put in just because they wanted to add something, or maybe it's for the visual appeal off the tee, but most don't come into play at all. But, I think if you never really played the old Maryvale and are just coming here for the first or second time, it's very solid. I can however understand those who have played in the past and see some of the differences and not liking them. My only real complaint was 5 green. it's just stupid....I had 105 in...hit a sand wedge that landed 5 ft short of the hole which apparently was a big downslope (pin was back left) and the ball rolled onto the back fringe on the top of a giant upslope which in my opinion needs to be leveled out a good amount.

 

The clubhouse is very nice. Not much in the shop but everything is orderly and well displayed. The driving range was nice with good balls and the grass was perfect. They have multiple target greens set up too which I really liked. Now if they could only do something about people that like to play in 5-somes in the group ahead, that would be nice......

[sabram]

Just saw this thread, and ferrispgm anticipated a question I had as I read through ... How does this course compare to Papago? If you could just play one or the other on the way to or from the airport, which one would you prefer? (don't count pace of play)

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Just saw this thread, and ferrispgm anticipated a question I had as I read through ... How does this course compare to Papago? If you could just play one or the other on the way to or from the airport, which one would you prefer? (don't count pace of play)

 

Papago

Aguila

Maryvale

Cave Creek in that order.

 

My biggest knock on Papago is the two par 3s on the front other than that I'd rather play papago or aguila over maryvale

[sabram]

Thanks OPB