Wickenburg, AZ mid-March.

[Hakko]

We're going to Los Cab in mid-March for a family vacation. I'll be playing at the resort and Wickenburg Ranch. I'm looking for one more course that's close-by. I'll be a single. Privates are ok as long as we're not talking ridiculous guest fees, I.e. >$200; my pro can probably get me on anyplace that isn't super-exclusive.

 

Thanks.

[az2au]

Quintero is the closest and it is pretty. Not a great course (repetitive par 3s and a very awkward par 5) but beautiful views. Visitors tend to think it is awesome so probably worth looking at.

 

Anthem is another 25 min away and Ironwood is a better course but the views aren't as good. The Persimmon course at Anthem is of similar quality IMO as Quintero with less views so not worth it if you can only play that one. It is private but shouldn't be too hard to get on.

[AzSuperHack76]

You will love the combo of Los Cab and Wickenburg Ranch, harder to find a better one, two punch. (Ranch obviously being the big haymaker!)

 

Quintero is a great course, being from NC you'd absolutely love it. Since you're staying at Los Cab, Quintero is the closest course, approx 20-25 minutes from Wickenburg. Close, other quality options would be Copper Canyon (30-35 minutes), Troon course always in great shape, next would be Vistancia (40-45 Minutes), in great shape as well right now. Both a step below Quintero but good, solid tracks. Nothing else is really close as Wickenburg is a little ways out there. I work in the Burg and live in Peoria. If you need any pointers or must see's in the area shoot me a PM.

 

Anthem compared to Quintero is laughable in my opinion, you'd be hard pressed to find find better conditioning anywhere else.

 

By reading through the SW forum you'll find that Quintero is very polarizing, worth finding out for yourself without having the fans and non-fans sway your feelings.

[puttnforthe8]

You will love the combo of Los Cab and Wickenburg Ranch, harder to find a better one, two punch. (Ranch obviously being the big haymaker!)

 

Quintero is a great course, being from NC you'd absolutely love it. Since you're staying at Los Cab, Quintero is the closest course, approx 20-25 minutes from Wickenburg. Close, other quality options would be Copper Canyon (30-35 minutes), Troon course always in great shape, next would be Vistancia (40-45 Minutes), in great shape as well right now. Both a step below Quintero but good, solid tracks. Nothing else is really close as Wickenburg is a little ways out there. I work in the Burg and live in Peoria. If you need any pointers or must see's in the area shoot me a PM.

 

Anthem compared to Quintero is laughable in my opinion, you'd be hard pressed to find find better conditioning anywhere else.

 

By reading through the SW forum you'll find that Quintero is very polarizing, worth finding out for yourself without having the fans and non-fans sway your feelings.

 

 

Blackstone is out that way too..great facility

[Rohlio]

I would just play one of the 2 tracks you are already playing again. I love them both.

[az2au]

I came back to mention Blackstone but there is zero doubt to me that Ironwood is a better course than Quintero. Back when there were no houses on Ironwood it'd still lose on views and I honestly believe that this is what people like about Quintero. It sure as heck isn't the course itself. If you want to argue it is better than Persimmon, OK. I could see that point and understand it.

 

I'm surprised to hear that Anthem isn't in as good as shape either. I know it suffered when Club Corp took over in 2006 but my understanding was that the issues had been resolved since then. I was a member up there from 2000-2005 and owned a few houses there until I sold them all in late 05/early 06. The last house I bought was off of the fifth at Ironwood and I've played it a bunch but only once since leaving and it was in great shape.

 

Anyway, realized that I forgot to mention Trilogy at Vistancia and Blackstone. Trilogy was in terrible shape the last time I played there (July 15) but assume it would be better now. Blackstone is very fun.

 

Also now realize that I had also forgotten Copper Canyon. I'd argue that Quintero is at the bottom of the list amongst all of these but realize that's just my opinion.

[AzSuperHack76]

Wowzers, Q at the bottom of the list of all those courses?

 

Do you currently play all of these courses on a regular basis?

 

Again, we've talked about Quintero being a polarizing course, but to put it below Copper Canyon, Vistancia, and the two Anthem courses is crazy talk, but thats just me.

 

Blackstone is up there in terms of conditioning but just some odd holes and mounding at Blackstone that just make it a little goofy for me.

 

Blackstone is private in the winter but if you have your pro call you should be good to go.

[az2au]

I've played Persimmon and Ironwood more than 100 times each for sure. Quintero is probably second at around 20-30(used to play them in interclub when they were private + taking visitors), then Vistancia 5 or 6. Blackstone 3 times and finally Copper Canyon only once. What can I say, I just think Quintero is a mediocre golf course (at best) in a beautiful spot. I had no idea others felt that way until reading here but I just never enjoyed it and I have shot great scores there so it has nothing to do with that.

[AzSuperHack76]

I know there are a few people in this forum that just don't jive with Quintero but I don't even think that they would call it mediocre.

 

Hakko, outside of Wickenburg Ranch and within 45 minutes of Wickenburg you are not going to find a better course.

 

Enjoy your stay, enjoy the weather and hit em well!

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Yup Quintero is the last resort option on that list. Id rather play los cab again

[AzSuperHack76]

Yup Quintero is the last resort option on that list. Id rather play los cab again

 

Really?? You'd play both the the Anthem courses, Vistancia, and Copper Canyon over Quintero?

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Yup Quintero is the last resort option on that list. Id rather play los cab again

 

Really?? You'd play both the the Anthem courses, Vistancia, and Copper Canyon over Quintero?

Yup1

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Quintero to me is would you rather stare at a 10 for 4 hours maybe 5 or actually fool around with a 7

 

 

 

[AzSuperHack76]

Quintero to me is would you rather stare at a 10 for 4 hours maybe 5 or actually fool around with a 7

 

Cool story, but seriously this is what makes Az so special, plenty of choices whether they are visually stunning or stunning from a design/layout point you can't go wrong with being here in March and experiencing desert golf. Form your own opinion and enjoy the stay!!

 

 

 

 

Edited to not sound so snarky. ;-)

[wcb231]

If you replaced the desert at Quintero with trees people would talk about it like they do Lookout Mountain or Karsten, but because of the views suddenly it's the best around? Pass

[AzSuperHack76]

If you replaced the desert at Quintero with trees people would talk about it like they do Lookout Mountain or Karsten, but because of the views suddenly it's the best around? Pass

 

 

Hahaha, now I've heard it all.

[fore_life]

Tell us what's great about Quintero, and don't mention the word views in your review. If elevation change is why, then is club west rated as highly by you too?

[wcb231]

When people complain about those other courses it's usually along the lines of "boring layout, mickey mouse golf, unimaginative, cookie cutter, weird holes" and that's EXACTLY what Quintero is.

[Rohlio]

Tell us what's great about Quintero, and don't mention the word views in your review. If elevation change is why, then is club west rated as highly by you too?

 

Exact same challenge applies to dinosaur mountain.

[fore_life]

Yep! Which I don't like DIno either(but I only like 4 or 5 courses anyways haha)

[DrSchteeve]

One other plus to Quintero besides views is that conditions are usually superb, and the bent greens are often lightning quick.

[AzSuperHack76]

Tell us what's great about Quintero, and don't mention the word views in your review. If elevation change is why, then is club west rated as highly by you too?

 

So have you had a chance to play Quintero yet Fore?

 

I enjoy Quintero, It's not my favorite course by any stretch, but to hear someone compare it to Karsten or Lookout is just an absolute joke. I mean it's not even in the same tier of courses to me and is down right laughable.

 

To me Quintero is always a challenge challenge, it's a tough course. Number of options from any fairway to the greens, you really have to think about shot placement and how to approach the greens. Strategic bunkers in the fairways and protecting the greens are a huge challenge. I feel huge sense of accomplishment when things are going well and I make the right decisions and get rewarded with a good score out there because of the difficulty of the course.

 

The greens are what set the course apart in my book, fast and true which could be said of many courses but there are so many subtle nuances in the greens at Quintero that I pick up just about every time I am out there. The conditioning is usually pretty amazing(minus bunkers), hands down some of the best of any course in Az.

 

Now the sand is a thing that Quintero is having issues with. The bunkers are absolute crap. They are working on re-doing them, but until they are all done this is a huge negative for the course, blows my mind how they couldn't figure that out. Another issue is the pace, I haven't had many issues until a couple of months ago, but my recommendation is to tee off early or late. Tee'd off around 930 a month ago and the round just dragged, my fault for knowing better. I play mainly during the summer, and have never had that issue then.

 

#8 is a goofy par 5 that forces you to lay up unless you are playing it forward, but that's it. I have no idea one hole can make an entire course "mickey mouse". People talk about We-ko-Pa having a goofy par 5 or 2 out there and I wouldn't even dare to call that course "mickey mouse". To me, Dino Mt. seems "tricked up" and "forced", just me, I just don't see them as the same.

 

Yes, Quintero has some of the best views in the entire state. Yes, they have huge elevated par 3's that have some of those views as well. Not a terrible thing in my book, not repetitive to me by any means especially when you mix in superior conditioning.

 

Overall to me, Quintero really makes you think, the greens really protect this course and how to approach the greens from the fairway is key to me.

[az2au]

I think the comparisons to Karsten or Lookout are more than fair but for different reasons than you seem to think. I think I've played every round out there from either the tips or one up from them but I'm not 100% sure that is true as I might have played a match two up before. I wasn't going to do this but you keep calling it laughable to think it is not a good design so I thought I would offer my perspective. If I think about the holes in order then here's what I see:

1-I don't particularly care for this hole because it punishes a good drive by placing it on a downhill slope to a green with that runs away and no room behind it. It is not a great idea to start someone off by having them hit a drive that shows no trouble and then makes an early downhill lie wedge shot. Yeah, I could hit 3 wood but why? There's no strategic advantage, it doesn't give me a better look at the green, doesn't provide a better angle. The green is awkward for the shot. It is still an easy hole but unnecessarily penal to a higher handicap from what I've seen.

 

2-Fine, nothing particularly wrong with it. Rather boring par 5 but not a bad hole.

 

3-Terrible hole again meant to punish high handicappers. It is supposed to be a classic cape hole but instead discourages players from choosing to take on the lake with the prevailing wind being off the left. The bunker on the right takes away the bail out option and the wash in front of the green slows things down. I suppose Jones could have added a couple more tricks on this hole but not sure they would be noticed. The slow play begins here.

 

4-Interesting that a 460 par 4 plays into the prevailing wind with a tight fairway, but fine, I don't mind this hole much other than the bunker on the right that makes no sense because it completely removes any option

 

5-Don't have a particular problem with this one but not a huge fan of holes like this anywhere. On the not so bright side we'll see a few more short par 4s where you hit a tee shot and then some sort of wedge to an elevated green. If you love that shot then you love this course.

 

6-Yay, we're on a cliff so that we can hit a 7 iron from 220! It's fine but I think it is too much of a drop in elevation. I will say that I do think the bailout is correct here as I would say that 95% of the people I have seen play this hole miss it short and right

 

7-I like this hole. No issues

 

8-Ridiculous par 5 where I usually hit 3 iron-3 iron-wedge. No risk-reward options, wide fairway, basically only hard for the high handicap player and another hole that just makes pace unbearable

 

9-Beautiful hole to look at, mildly ridiculous to play. No options.

 

10-I don't have an issue with this hole. Decent risk-reward par 5

 

11-I don't have an issue with this hole either.

 

12-No issue with this one either

 

13-At least it is not just an another elevated par 3. Nothing special, nothing terrible.

 

14-Stupid tee shot and then a elevated green that makes for a monotonous hole that plays into the prevailing wind. Again, a slow play hole for the high handicapper even when playing the correct tees and no special challenge for the low handicap player. That's one of my recurring themes with the course. Slow play grows along a fairly steep curve with the better player being punished far less than the poor player and no appropriate sliding scale of difficulty. I don't know why any high handicap player ever wants to play here at all.

 

15-I looked up the description of this one because I think it is such a terrible hole that I wanted to see what the website said about it: "Rees Jones calls this one of the great sleeper holes at Quintero. On this short par 4, a solid tee shot with many clubs will be rewarded with a short iron to a crafty, elevated green." I couldn't disagree more with this. First, it is a lazy design that provides for no options. I say this having put driver one once and realizing how lucky of a shot that was, i.e. not really an option, just someone that got lucky. So, fine, hit a 4 iron or so down the middle and leave yourself a wedge to yet another elevated green but this time since it is downwind you have to place it on a heavily sloped green that runs away in the desert if it hits the back portion/long or deal with bunkers that are not really meant to be played out of for this type of shot. I know it says it plays 379 but the prevailing wind is with you and thus it plays much shorter but also makes the green more of a design mess.

 

16-Best par 3 out there, often with a crosswind that fights against what should be a draw off the traps. Good hole.

 

17-Oh look, it is a wedge to an elevated green playing downwind with no room behind it. I haven't seen a hole like this in... well, since 15. This one is better than 15 but they keep it too wet to play the correct shot (bouncing it on would be better) so you just play to the front left.

 

18-Well, it is has a waterfall so... yeah, anyway, the hole itself is fine I think but just a bit of a cliche.

 

In summary, I think there are 5 holes I like, 8 holes that I think are either tricked up or designed poorly and 5 that are ok. That makes it a mediocre golf course to me.

 

Even with all of that said however, I still tell visitors to play there because they are usually more interested in beautiful views than great courses. There's nothing wrong with that. Quintero is a beautiful and picturesque place to play golf. Wickenburg Ranch and Los Caballeros are both much better designs. Wickenburg Ranch is almost as pretty to look at too.

[Hakko]

Thanks for the input. From what I can judge, I'd be just as well off not leaving the Greater Wickenburg Metropolitan area. I might see about Blackstone if I can get on.

[wcb231]

I've probably played 200 different courses around every segment of the country and I can comfortably say Quintero #8 is in the top 3, if not worst hole I have ever played. I hate to sound arrogant or play the "I've seen it all" card, and anyone here who's met me will tell you that's not who I am, but the more I think about where I've played and the more courses I try for the first time, the less I think of Quintero.

[AzSuperHack76]

I think the comparisons to Karsten or Lookout are more than fair but for different reasons than you seem to think. I think I've played every round out there from either the tips or one up from them but I'm not 100% sure that is true as I might have played a match two up before. I wasn't going to do this but you keep calling it laughable to think it is not a good design so I thought I would offer my perspective. If I think about the holes in order then here's what I see:

1-I don't particularly care for this hole because it punishes a good drive by placing it on a downhill slope to a green with that runs away and no room behind it. It is not a great idea to start someone off by having them hit a drive that shows no trouble and then makes an early downhill lie wedge shot. Yeah, I could hit 3 wood but why? There's no strategic advantage, it doesn't give me a better look at the green, doesn't provide a better angle. The green is awkward for the shot. It is still an easy hole but unnecessarily penal to a higher handicap from what I've seen.

 

2-Fine, nothing particularly wrong with it. Rather boring par 5 but not a bad hole.

 

3-Terrible hole again meant to punish high handicappers. It is supposed to be a classic cape hole but instead discourages players from choosing to take on the lake with the prevailing wind being off the left. The bunker on the right takes away the bail out option and the wash in front of the green slows things down. I suppose Jones could have added a couple more tricks on this hole but not sure they would be noticed. The slow play begins here.

 

4-Interesting that a 460 par 4 plays into the prevailing wind with a tight fairway, but fine, I don't mind this hole much other than the bunker on the right that makes no sense because it completely removes any option

 

5-Don't have a particular problem with this one but not a huge fan of holes like this anywhere. On the not so bright side we'll see a few more short par 4s where you hit a tee shot and then some sort of wedge to an elevated green. If you love that shot then you love this course.

 

6-Yay, we're on a cliff so that we can hit a 7 iron from 220! It's fine but I think it is too much of a drop in elevation. I will say that I do think the bailout is correct here as I would say that 95% of the people I have seen play this hole miss it short and right

 

7-I like this hole. No issues

 

8-Ridiculous par 5 where I usually hit 3 iron-3 iron-wedge. No risk-reward options, wide fairway, basically only hard for the high handicap player and another hole that just makes pace unbearable

 

9-Beautiful hole to look at, mildly ridiculous to play. No options.

 

10-I don't have an issue with this hole. Decent risk-reward par 5

 

11-I don't have an issue with this hole either.

 

12-No issue with this one either

 

13-At least it is not just an another elevated par 3. Nothing special, nothing terrible.

 

14-Stupid tee shot and then a elevated green that makes for a monotonous hole that plays into the prevailing wind. Again, a slow play hole for the high handicapper even when playing the correct tees and no special challenge for the low handicap player. That's one of my recurring themes with the course. Slow play grows along a fairly steep curve with the better player being punished far less than the poor player and no appropriate sliding scale of difficulty. I don't know why any high handicap player ever wants to play here at all.

 

15-I looked up the description of this one because I think it is such a terrible hole that I wanted to see what the website said about it: "Rees Jones calls this one of the great sleeper holes at Quintero. On this short par 4, a solid tee shot with many clubs will be rewarded with a short iron to a crafty, elevated green." I couldn't disagree more with this. First, it is a lazy design that provides for no options. I say this having put driver one once and realizing how lucky of a shot that was, i.e. not really an option, just someone that got lucky. So, fine, hit a 4 iron or so down the middle and leave yourself a wedge to yet another elevated green but this time since it is downwind you have to place it on a heavily sloped green that runs away in the desert if it hits the back portion/long or deal with bunkers that are not really meant to be played out of for this type of shot. I know it says it plays 379 but the prevailing wind is with you and thus it plays much shorter but also makes the green more of a design mess.

 

16-Best par 3 out there, often with a crosswind that fights against what should be a draw off the traps. Good hole.

 

17-Oh look, it is a wedge to an elevated green playing downwind with no room behind it. I haven't seen a hole like this in... well, since 15. This one is better than 15 but they keep it too wet to play the correct shot (bouncing it on would be better) so you just play to the front left.

 

18-Well, it is has a waterfall so... yeah, anyway, the hole itself is fine I think but just a bit of a cliche.

 

In summary, I think there are 5 holes I like, 8 holes that I think are either tricked up or designed poorly and 5 that are ok. That makes it a mediocre golf course to me.

 

Even with all of that said however, I still tell visitors to play there because they are usually more interested in beautiful views than great courses. There's nothing wrong with that. Quintero is a beautiful and picturesque place to play golf. Wickenburg Ranch and Los Caballeros are both much better designs. Wickenburg Ranch is almost as pretty to look at too.

 

Very detailed write up! I use the term laughable because to me Karsten and Lookout shouldn't be mentioned in the same type/tier of course, nothing else, not laughable because you think Quintero is a mediocre design,(although I wrote that in a previous post, I didn't convey it correctly) that's why opinions are just that, subjective to ones on personal thoughts and feelings.

 

There is defiantly a good split of people who like/dislike Quintero. I think they did something right out there to garner all the attention and accolades they have.

 

Either way it's always a good debate!

[AzSuperHack76]

Thanks for the input. From what I can judge, I'd be just as well off not leaving the Greater Wickenburg Metropolitan area. I might see about Blackstone if I can get on.

 

You can't go wrong with that at all. Los Cab is a classic favorite of mine such a fun layout with tons of character. Great service, awesome food, get the Chicago dog with the works, also fresh baked cookies come with it as well, good touch.

 

Wickenburg Ranch is my favorite course right now, superb in every way, conditioning wise it's one of the best conditioned courses in the state. They lay out just belongs in my opinion, draped perfectly into the desert and the landscape.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

I've probably played 200 different courses around every segment of the country and I can comfortably say Quintero #8 is in the top 3, if not worst hole I have ever played. I hate to sound arrogant or play the "I've seen it all" card, and anyone here who's met me will tell you that's not who I am, but the more I think about where I've played and the more courses I try for the first time, the less I think of Quintero.

 

Az has at least 3 of the worst par 5s I've ever played 8 at Quintero 18 at Stoneridge in Prescott and 8 on Wekopa Cholla (although they're renovating it this fall)

[teejaywhy]

One other plus to Quintero besides views is that conditions are usually superb, and the bent greens are often lightning quick.

 

It is indeed, a finely polished turd.

 

 

[AzSuperHack76]

I've probably played 200 different courses around every segment of the country and I can comfortably say Quintero #8 is in the top 3, if not worst hole I have ever played. I hate to sound arrogant or play the "I've seen it all" card, and anyone here who's met me will tell you that's not who I am, but the more I think about where I've played and the more courses I try for the first time, the less I think of Quintero.

 

Az has at least 3 of the worst par 5s I've ever played 8 at Quintero 18 at Stoneridge in Prescott and 8 on Wekopa Cholla (although they're renovating it this fall)

 

Forgot about Stoneridge #18, first time I was all, WTF??

 

Talk about tricked up has anyone ever played Concord GC (Revere) in Las Vegas/Henderson, if you all feel Quintero is tricked up or Dino Mt, (to me Dino Mt is very tricked up) then whats your thought on Revere?? To me it was insane, just plain nuts, one of the weirdest courses I have ever played.