Chipping, Rule of 12, If you don't know what that is watch vid!!

[bph7]

I agree tho, don't think I've ever seen a tour player use an 8 iron or lower iron to chip.

 

I'm going to reach out to this guy and tell him he did it all wrong at Hoylake...you know...because of equipment, fast greens, and lack of talent.

 

Clearly he would have won if he grabbed that 52* and up each time.

 

Wait...

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/tiger_tips_gd0908

 

He would've scored better if he used wedge and I don't think he actually used the 4 iron multiple times. His chipping technique also isn't great. He's the most talented player in history he can do whatever he wants. You saw what happened last year when he couldn't rely on his talents as much with chipping, his fundamental issues made him look like a hack.

 

I'll stand by what I said: if you have terrible wedge technique, this is worth a try. Otherwise, there is no shot that couldn't be played more predictably and consistently a wedge and proper technique. I'm not disagreeing that this way may be better for some what have bad chipping mechanics, so I dont really know what we are arguing about anyway.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

Has nothing to do with mechanics or the ability to chip with a wedge. It's about keeping the ball down with less spin and more release.

 

If I want to get the ball rolling immediately from 100 feet away and obviously don't need to elevate the shot for any reason, using a lower lofted club with less effort is an infinitely easier shot than what's required to chip from 30yds away with a wedge.

[Bobalu]

I agree tho, don't think I've ever seen a tour player use an 8 iron or lower iron to chip.

 

I'm going to reach out to this guy and tell him he did it all wrong at Hoylake...you know...because of equipment, fast greens, and lack of talent.

 

Clearly he would have won if he grabbed that 52* and up each time.

 

Wait...

 

http://www.golfdiges...ger_tips_gd0908

 

He would've scored better if he used wedge and I don't think he actually used the 4 iron multiple times. His chipping technique also isn't great. He's the most talented player in history he can do whatever he wants. You saw what happened last year when he couldn't rely on his talents as much with chipping, his fundamental issues made him look like a hack.

 

I'll stand by what I said: if you have terrible wedge technique, this is worth a try. Otherwise, there is no shot that couldn't be played more predictably and consistently a wedge and proper technique. I'm not disagreeing that this way may be better for some what have bad chipping mechanics, so I dont really know what we are arguing about anyway.

 

Last year, Tiger's chipping was so bad that he resorted to chipping with his 4 iron and had terrible results. He often hit his 4 iron way past the hole or way short.

 

"Woods opted to use a 4-iron on multiple chips in lieu of a wedge, but the results were still erratic: some chips checked up short of the green, while others bounded past the hole. He built an early deficit with back-to-back bogeys to begin the round, and Woods was 4 over after four holes."

 

http://www.golfchann...ods-opening-73/

[Hoganstriker]

Bump and run is the high percentage play If the lie is decent.

[jj9000]

 

Last year, Tiger's chipping was so bad that he resorted to chipping with his 4 iron and had terrible results. He often hit his 4 iron way past the hole or way short.

 

"Woods opted to use a 4-iron on multiple chips in lieu of a wedge, but the results were still erratic: some chips checked up short of the green, while others bounded past the hole. He built an early deficit with back-to-back bogeys to begin the round, and Woods was 4 over after four holes."

 

http://www.golfchann...ods-opening-73/

 

What do his chipping yips in 2015 have to do with using a 4 iron to chip on his way to winning at Hoylake?

[Bobalu]

Bump and run is the high percentage play If the lie is decent.

 

Might be just me, but I would not call a chip that lands on the front of the green and rolls out to the flag a bump-and-run.

[Bobalu]

Last year, Tiger's chipping was so bad that he resorted to chipping with his 4 iron and had terrible results. He often hit his 4 iron way past the hole or way short.

 

"Woods opted to use a 4-iron on multiple chips in lieu of a wedge, but the results were still erratic: some chips checked up short of the green, while others bounded past the hole. He built an early deficit with back-to-back bogeys to begin the round, and Woods was 4 over after four holes."

 

http://www.golfchann...ods-opening-73/

 

What do his chipping yips in 2015 have to do with using a 4 iron to chip on his way to winning at Hoylake?

 

Tiger did not yip with a greenside 4 iron chip, he just could not control his roll-out distances to the hole.

[Hoganstriker]

Some here are talking about using a 52 or 56 for everything. Those are most often used for pitch shots. This thread is about chipping. If all you have in your arsenal is a pitch shot maybe you ought to spend an hour or two developing your chipping technique. It's very easy and will soon become your first option if you want to get it close not just look cool hitting spinning pitch shots.

[bph7]

Last year, Tiger's chipping was so bad that he resorted to chipping with his 4 iron and had terrible results. He often hit his 4 iron way past the hole or way short.

 

"Woods opted to use a 4-iron on multiple chips in lieu of a wedge, but the results were still erratic: some chips checked up short of the green, while others bounded past the hole. He built an early deficit with back-to-back bogeys to begin the round, and Woods was 4 over after four holes."

 

http://www.golfchann...ods-opening-73/

 

What do his chipping yips in 2015 have to do with using a 4 iron to chip on his way to winning at Hoylake?

 

Tiger did not yip with a greenside 4 iron chip, he just could not control his roll-out distances to the hole.

 

Exactly. If the second best player ever couldn't control it, that's not an endorsement that the technique is easy.

[dlygrisse]

Too many variables to make this system viable. Does not take into account fast vs slow greens, uphill vs downhill, chipping to a hole on an upper tier of a green, consistency of being able to hit your mark 1 yd on the green, etc. Hit it slightly short and your screwed. The only time I've seen this system talked about is with beginners or instructors. I'm a believer in getting good with a couple of choice wedges and developing feel. Every shot will be different around the greens. General concept is fine, but stock formulas like this rarely apply in the real world and slow down play.

This is almost exactly what I was going to say. To me short game is visualizing the shot and hitting that shot. I use my 58 for a lot of shots but may use a PW or a 8 iron on a long roller or possibly something else but it's generally one of those 3 clubs. The other day I had what I would normally use a 58 for but I was uphill into the wind and used a 54 and hit it to about a foot.

To me it's a lot like throwing a ball or shooting a basket. See shot. Visualize shot. Hit shot with club that wull hit that shot. I can hit about 5 different shots with my 58 at least.

 

To me a system of this nature just makes things too complicated. Fast greens, slow greens, wind etc. practice a variety of shots from a variety of lies and develop touch and feel.

[jj9000]

Exactly. If the second best player ever couldn't control it, that's not an endorsement that the technique is easy.

 

You guys realize how flawed your logic is here, right?

 

Watch this...

 

Exactly. If the second best player ever couldn't control his high lofted wedges, that's not an endorsement that the technique is easy.

 

The guy had chipping yips.

[Bobalu]

Too many variables to make this system viable. Does not take into account fast vs slow greens, uphill vs downhill, chipping to a hole on an upper tier of a green, consistency of being able to hit your mark 1 yd on the green, etc. Hit it slightly short and your screwed. The only time I've seen this system talked about is with beginners or instructors. I'm a believer in getting good with a couple of choice wedges and developing feel. Every shot will be different around the greens. General concept is fine, but stock formulas like this rarely apply in the real world and slow down play.

This is almost exactly what I was going to say. To me short game is visualizing the shot and hitting that shot. I use my 58 for a lot of shots but may use a PW or a 8 iron on a long roller or possibly something else but it's generally one of those 3 clubs. The other day I had what I would normally use a 58 for but I was uphill into the wind and used a 54 and hit it to about a foot.

To me it's a lot like throwing a ball or shooting a basket. See shot. Visualize shot. Hit shot with club that wull hit that shot. I can hit about 5 different shots with my 58 at least.

 

To me a system of this nature just makes things too complicated. Fast greens, slow greens, wind etc. practice a variety of shots from a variety of lies and develop touch and feel.

 

Agree. This is exactly how I handle around the green chipping opportunities. These are not pitches.

[dlygrisse]

Bump and run is the high percentage play If the lie is decent.

 

Any shot you are "bumping" short of the green has a bigger element of luck involved. Landing it on a perfectly manicured green give you a much better chance of judging how the ball will react when it hits the ground. Now if you have a back pin and have 90 feet of green to work with I agree running it bac there is the percentage play. But using say a 4 iron only works if you have a good lie and if you do maybe putting or a hybrid makes more sense. Now if you are playing a links course like Hoylake things change a bit. But I don't know many people who play true links courses very often.

[Hoganstriker]

Bump and run is the high percentage play If the lie is decent.

 

Any shot you are "bumping" short of the green has a bigger element of luck involved. Landing it on a perfectly manicured green give you a much better chance of judging how the ball will react when it hits the ground. Now if you have a back pin and have 90 feet of green to work with I agree running it bac there is the percentage play. But using say a 4 iron only works if you have a good lie and if you do maybe putting or a hybrid makes more sense. Now if you are playing a links course like Hoylake things change a bit. But I don't know many people who play true links courses very often.

 

 

I did not mean bumping it short of the green. Bad terminology on my part. Fwiw I don't use a formula for this but I do use different clubs 6 7 8 in particular. I just eye the shot. I never used to chip and run. I used to use primarily my 52 and 56. I've just found that if the lie/shot is setup so there is green to work with that I hit it closer more of the time by chipping vs pitching the ball. To me if the shot is more air than ground it's a pitch regardless of length.

What is simpler a simple descending blow with almost a putting stroke or a larger swing with a lofted club?

I could play fine around the greens with just a 56 but it requires a bit of practice time to maintain the feel. I've found chipping to require less practice it's just such a small stroke. I dunno in closing I've found chipping is easier it's almost just a putt.

The deciding factor for me is the position of the ball and lie. If it's in heavier grass I will pitch or if it's back far enough from the edge of the green.

[RichieHunt]

I've seen Tour players use an 8-iron to chip with.

 

And the general premise of the Rule of 12 is used by a lot of Tour players....get the ball on the green quickly instead of flying everything to the hole.

 

The reason why you don't see a lot 8-iron chipping is the way the greens are designed. I use the Rule of 12, but once in a blue moon I will need to use an 8-iron. I'm likely to hit 12/18 GIR to begin with and in order to have an 8-iron with the Rule of 12, you are most likely to have missed the pin by a sizeable margin, but are just off the green. And from there, you might want to putt it off the fringe anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[MMB1500]

Brad Faxon is a fan of getting the ball rolling as quickly as possible.

 

"Minimum air time, maximum ground time."

 

[Cicero]

I didn't find this method to be that complicated. You figure out the pattern for your own clubs, and you make adjustments based on the lie, green speed, etc.

 

I suck, I've never played much, and I was able to implement this relatively successfully without previous practice. I had read about the concept before, and watched the Manzella video, and the truth is you don't have to use a ton of clubs if you don't want to. I think the main idea of this method is finding a landing spot and getting the ball on the ground; putting with loft as they say.

 

Once you have the general idea, it's way easier than it seems, and it's simple to execute. If I could do it, ANYBODY could, lol

[Yzmerf]

Exactly. If the second best player ever couldn't control it, that's not an endorsement that the technique is easy.

 

You guys realize how flawed your logic is here, right?

 

Watch this...

 

Exactly. If the second best player ever couldn't control his high lofted wedges, that's not an endorsement that the technique is easy.

 

The guy had chipping yips.

 

This shows exactly the point of this. Find a technique that is simple enough it can work if you don't have hours to spend practicing. Now obviously he has time to practice but he also had no idea where the bottom of his swing was. Tiger was looking to eliminate the chance of chunking or blading a wedge that would leave him chipping again. It may have run out to far but at least he could putt.

 

By the way every chip shot i have seen today has landed just barely on the green but like i said they have all had ratios of flight to roll that required a wedge of some kind. If you are manipulating a wedge to make it go lower and roll farther you will have to work at it more, period. If you are good at it, more power to you but it requires more practice.

[RichieHunt]

I didn't find this method to be that complicated. You figure out the pattern for your own clubs, and you make adjustments based on the lie, green speed, etc.

 

I suck, I've never played much, and I was able to implement this relatively successfully without previous practice. I had read about the concept before, and watched the Manzella video, and the truth is you don't have to use a ton of clubs if you don't want to. I think the main idea of this method is finding a landing spot and getting the ball on the ground; putting with loft as they say.

 

Once you have the general idea, it's way easier than it seems, and it's simple to execute. If I could do it, ANYBODY could, lol

 

It's even easier if you think about it.

 

Pace off where your ball is to where you want it to land. Then pace off from the landing spot to the hole. Divide those 2 numbers.

 

So, if you have 4 paces to the landing area spot and then 12 paces from the landing area to the hole, 12 / 4 = 3. 12-3 = 9 iron.

 

Quick and easy.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[BrianL99]

Some here are talking about using a 52 or 56 for everything. Those are most often used for pitch shots. This thread is about chipping. If all you have in your arsenal is a pitch shot maybe you ought to spend an hour or two developing your chipping technique. It's very easy and will soon become your first option if you want to get it close not just look cool hitting spinning pitch shots.

 

You apparently don't know what a "chip" is.

 

A chip is a shot make near the green, that generally travels as far or farther on the ground, than it does in the air ... or made near the green, when "loft" isn't a major consideration.

 

Don't you ever watch golf on TV? The vast majority of tour pros, use a wedge to make their chips. That doesn't make them "pitch shots", it's simply a chip with a wedge.

 

Read Richie Hunt's post. If you're dealing with undulating greens, chipping with an 8 or 9 iron can be a ticket to high scores.

 

Just my opinion, but most of the guys advocating the Rule of 12, aren't really talking about "chipping", they're talking about putting with a club other than a putter.

[MadGolfer76]

Some here are talking about using a 52 or 56 for everything. Those are most often used for pitch shots. This thread is about chipping. If all you have in your arsenal is a pitch shot maybe you ought to spend an hour or two developing your chipping technique. It's very easy and will soon become your first option if you want to get it close not just look cool hitting spinning pitch shots.

 

You apparently don't know what a "chip" is.

 

A chip is a shot that generally travels as far or farther on the ground, than it does in the air.

 

Don't you ever watch golf on TV? The vast majority of tour pros, use a wedge to make their chips. That doesn't make them "pitch shots", it's simply a chip with a wedge.

 

Tour conditions and skill levels cannot be a point of validity with the rest of us here. And the same definition^ could be applied to a bump and run. There is more context here than just a black and white interpretation. I'm not necessarily directing this only to you Brian, but I am puzzled how this produced such a polarized response from so many posters.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

This is quite possibly the most retarded thread I've read on WRX

[MadGolfer76]

This is quite possibly the most retarded thread I've read on WRX

 

Which is a pity, because it started off with the OP just sharing an idea that wasn't without merit.

[BrianL99]

 

Tour conditions and skill levels cannot be a point of validity with the rest of us here. And the same definition^ could be applied to a bump and run. There is more context here than just a black and white interpretation. I'm not necessarily directing this only to you Brian, but I am puzzled how this produced such a polarized response from so many posters.

 

 

I'm a little puzzled, too.

 

In the first couple of posts, someone commented that chipping with lower lofted irons is a good technique for someone who doesn't practice or who doesn't play often. I agree. It's "putting with a lofted iron". The vast majority of golfers will get it closer to the hole using that technique, then they will using a wedge.

 

I play plenty of golf (& don't have the greatest short game in the world), but I use a wedge for shots around the green. I'll use anything between a Pitching Wedge & a Lob Wedge, depending how much roll I want, in relation to the the distance I need to carry in the air.

 

In some respects, that's not different than chipping with a variety of lower lofted irons, I just stop changing irons at the PW ... some guys will chip from anything from a LW to a 4 iron.

[pinhigh27]

Or just putt with a putter....

[MadGolfer76]

Tour conditions and skill levels cannot be a point of validity with the rest of us here. And the same definition^ could be applied to a bump and run. There is more context here than just a black and white interpretation. I'm not necessarily directing this only to you Brian, but I am puzzled how this produced such a polarized response from so many posters.

 

 

I'm a little puzzled, too.

 

In the first couple of posts, someone commented that chipping with lower lofted irons is a good technique for someone who doesn't practice or who doesn't play often. I agree. It's "putting with a lofted iron". The vast majority of golfers will get it closer to the hole using that technique, then they will using a wedge.

 

I play plenty of golf (& don't have the greatest short game in the world), but I use a wedge for shots around the green. I'll use anything between a Pitching Wedge & a Lob Wedge, depending how much roll I want, in relation to the the distance I need to carry in the air.

 

In some respects, that's not different than chipping with a variety of lower lofted irons, I just stop changing irons at the PW ... some guys will chip from anything from a LW to a 4 iron.

 

I tend to chip with wedges up to maybe an 8 iron if needed, and understand that most folks prefer wedges. I just don't think it is the only valid way to go. Chipping with long irons may be more rare, but everything has a place.

 

I think a little more understanding from some posters here regarding some of Runyan's methods might help some understand more about the strategy. You probably know this, but Runyan (as far as I have read) never advocated chipping with longer irons with the sole level with the ground. He chipped with the toe down and the heel off the ground - basically stood the shaft straight up, choked down the club, and used more of a putting grip. I don't think he advocated too much weight forward because the heel up aspect of the chip mitigated some of the digging problems. I think he was very shallow through the strike, and (in the video link further up) he actively discussed the use of bounce in the short game, which was well ahead of modern methods many subscribe to now.

 

Some of the responses here were accurate - it is physically difficult to chip with longer clubs, unless you set up for them like Runyan did. Jim Furyk uses a similar approach here (with long irons no less):

 

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[MadGolfer76]

Or just putt with a putter....

 

That "use the putter" jazz might work for flatlanders down where it is warm, but if you play in lush conditions up here with elevated greens, you aren't taking a putter from 8-10 feet off the putting surface on medium to longer "chips."

[nitram]

In the first couple of posts, someone commented that chipping with lower lofted irons is a good technique for someone who doesn't practice or who doesn't play often. I agree. It's "putting with a lofted iron". The vast majority of golfers will get it closer to the hole using that technique, then they will using a wedge.

 

Exactly the point of bringing this to the table Brian. There's no spin to control with a 8-iron or 6-iron chip as compared to a sand or lob wedge. How many folks who can't practice very much use a wedge and the spin either stops them at least 10 ft short or the lack of spin they were counting on has them 20 feet past. This technique still has a lot of merit for most who can't devote the time necessary to hone their wedge skills.

 

Or just putt with a putter....

 

That "use the putter" jazz might work for flatlanders down where it is warm, but if you play in lush conditions up here with elevated greens, you aren't taking a putter from 8-10 feet off the putting surface on medium to longer "chips."

 

Exactly Maddie. Toe down and a putter stroke...

[BrianL99]

 

I think a little more understanding from some posters here regarding some of Runyan's methods might help some understand more about the strategy. You probably know this, but Runyan (as far as I have read) never advocated chipping with longer irons with the sole level with the ground. He chipped with the toe down and the heel off the ground - basically stood the shaft straight up, choked down the club, and used more of a putting grip. I don't think he advocated too much weight forward because the heel up aspect of the chip mitigated some of the digging problems. I think he was very shallow through the strike, and (in the video link further up) he actively discussed the use of bounce in the short game, which was well ahead of modern methods many subscribe to now.

 

Runyan style was similar to what you described, he gripped the club like a putter and held it "toe down", so the heel never touched the ground.

 

He also used an odd stoke that had his left elbow pointed toward the hole and the right, opposite. They say he could putt & chip like no one else.

 

He cleaned Sam Snead's clock in the 1938 PGA, 8 & 7, despite not being able to drive the ball more than about 225 yards.

 

I probably still have his book around somewhere and back about 30 years ago, used his technique for a year or two. I remember the first time I tried it, I hit 3 pins in the first 9 holes. Unfortunately, the honeymoon didn't last long and his method doesn't look very cool :)

[Forged4ever]

Yep. Used to be known as the Rule of 11 (I think he even mentions it in this vid), and can be tied back to Paul Runyan, I think.

Yeppers!!

 

Very Nicely Played!!

 

Have a great week :)

 

All the Best,

RIchard