Is early extension mainly caused by set up posture?

[Golfbeat]

I was watching this Instagram and thought that the discussion in the side line was interesting. Apart from the guy maybe needing longer clubs, what do you think about having a more rounded upper back and having no arch in the lower back. Generally, standing a bit closer to the ball. I would be afraid of back pain but have no evidence that it would might cause back pain as long as the lower back would not be rounded?

 

[iteachgolf]

It's mainly caused by being too steep and or swinging too left. We is used as a way to shallow the AOA and shift the path and face out to the right. Setup is NOT the main cause. Being too steep and a lack of understanding ( you stand up going back so must increase flexion in the hips in transition) is why it happens.

[Golfbeat]

It created a lot of space for these guys. They were not steep or hitting it too much to the left obviously.

 

[iteachgolf]

It created a lot of space for these guys. They were not steep or hitting it too much to the left obviously.

 

 

No clue what your point is. I don't see a bunch of early extension. Early extension is caused by being too steep and or swinging too left.

 

Setup isn't the issue. Which is your whole hypothesis. I can show you all sorts of setups that early extend and don't. It's an action to shift path and/or face out right and also generally a complete misunderstanding of how the lower body should work.

 

The kid in the video you posted has literally no forward bend from the hips and IMO his setup is poor.

[scratch72]

Wow those old videos look like they swing way inside on the back swing then first move down is OTT.

[TB07]

If setup was the MAIN cause don't you think lots of ppl would have cured their EE by now?

[MK7Golf21]

you dont fix EE properly by taking away all the room at setup that you could EE into. Dont want to be too bent over or too close, although Ive seen all kinds of setups with great players.

[Golfbeat]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

[TB07]

But most don't stick their butt out too much. See much more with a lack of forward bend. Plus you should be extending going back anyway.

[Jim Waldron]

Part of the confusion about this issue is that a lot of folks don't understand the difference between hip flexion/extension vs lumbar spine flexion/extension.

 

I teach a very slight flexion of the lumbar spine (only for golfers who have normal lumber curve or a bit more than normal) as part of my Mid-Body Postural Brace at Setup. That is sometimes called "pelvic tuck" or "tucking the tailbone under", and goes along with belly button to spine Core activation and glutes activation.

 

Hip flexion is a whole different thing. Its tilting the pelvic girdle forward over the head of the femurs, 25-40 degrees is the range of motion, depending on which club is in your hands. Hip extension is reversing that motion.

 

In golf, you need to learn how to move into extension without letting the butt move off the so-called "tush line", or at least not by too much. It is an unusual (not done anywhere else in your life) precise movement pattern that usually requires professional instruction to learn how to perform properly. Also requires good Core strength, and reasonably flexible psoas and hamstrings. And best done without any change to the lumbar spine curve, ie maintaining that slight pelvic tuck. So your torso moves upwards, but your butt stays "out" and stable. You tilt left from mid-back region mainly as your torso raises upwards, so the two cancel each other out, net result is your forward Spine Angle remains intact.

 

Very easy to lift the torso upwards while also moving the butt off the "tush-line".

[iteachgolf]

The hips extend in the backswing. No need to extend them at setup. Sitting on a bar stool doesn't increase forward bend from the hips.

 

Hips should be neutral at setup. Here are 8 of top 10 players in the world. Didn't include the one left handed one or it'd have been 9/10

 

[bph7]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

[MonteScheinblum]

I hear the GG pivot reduces green house gases.

 

 

Now if you want to say that too much anterior tilt and S curve can contribute greatly to EE, I would agree, but it's not the main cause and going full on posterior will not eliminate it and might even mask the actual cause.

 

The best course of action in a golf swing is to avoid extremes. No excess anterior tilt, but also no posterior tilt. The middle ground and stop yanking on the shaft so hard will eliminate EE.

[Golfbeat]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

Yes, my question has been answered by respected instructors for which I am grateful. There is no need however for a internet parrot to repeat it.

[starsail85]

Could somebody please tell me which muscles are responsible for hip flexion (reducing angle between thigh and stomach

 

Is it the same muscles you feel on your front upper legs when you do Russian twists?

[jerebear21]

You sort of answered your own question. Hip flexors. Aka psoas.

[PostandGhost]

It's mainly caused by being too steep and or swinging too left. We is used as a way to shallow the AOA and shift the path and face out to the right. Setup is NOT the main cause. Being too steep and a lack of understanding ( you stand up going back so must increase flexion in the hips in transition) is why it happens.

 

Quick question, is there any difference of symptoms based on how someone EEs? I notice some people who post swing vids on here will push their tush in at impact while keeping their head on the line. Others will back their head away from the ball at impact and keep their tush on the line. And some even do both tush-push and back-out. Of course all of these are forms of EE but is one caused by being steep and the other is caused by swinging too left? Maybe I'm reading too far into golfer's swings. Just curious I guess.

[iteachgolf]

It's mainly caused by being too steep and or swinging too left. We is used as a way to shallow the AOA and shift the path and face out to the right. Setup is NOT the main cause. Being too steep and a lack of understanding ( you stand up going back so must increase flexion in the hips in transition) is why it happens.

 

Quick question, is there any difference of symptoms based on how someone EEs? I notice some people who post swing vids on here will push their tush in at impact while keeping their head on the line. Others will back their head away from the ball at impact and keep their tush on the line. And some even do both tush-push and back-out. Of course all of these are forms of EE but is one caused by being steep and the other is caused by swinging too left? Maybe I'm reading too far into golfer's swings. Just curious I guess.

 

No just players compensating different to solve a problem. Many also have no clue how the lower body should work

[bph7]

It's mainly caused by being too steep and or swinging too left. We is used as a way to shallow the AOA and shift the path and face out to the right. Setup is NOT the main cause. Being too steep and a lack of understanding ( you stand up going back so must increase flexion in the hips in transition) is why it happens.

 

Quick question, is there any difference of symptoms based on how someone EEs? I notice some people who post swing vids on here will push their tush in at impact while keeping their head on the line. Others will back their head away from the ball at impact and keep their tush on the line. And some even do both tush-push and back-out. Of course all of these are forms of EE but is one caused by being steep and the other is caused by swinging too left? Maybe I'm reading too far into golfer's swings. Just curious I guess.

 

No just players compensating different to solve a problem. Many also have no clue how the lower body should work

 

Would you say that many have been lied to about the lower body? As in there is a lower body lie being perpetrated?

[MMB1500]

I've found that an incorrect release can also contribute to this problem. Releasing the wrist angles in the wrong way (flipping) can cause players to EE in order to create room for the club, make contact and avoid the club bottoming out well behind the ball.

[ShutSteepStuck]

It's mainly caused by being too steep and or swinging too left. We is used as a way to shallow the AOA and shift the path and face out to the right. Setup is NOT the main cause. Being too steep and a lack of understanding ( you stand up going back so must increase flexion in the hips in transition) is why it happens.

 

Quick question, is there any difference of symptoms based on how someone EEs? I notice some people who post swing vids on here will push their tush in at impact while keeping their head on the line. Others will back their head away from the ball at impact and keep their tush on the line. And some even do both tush-push and back-out. Of course all of these are forms of EE but is one caused by being steep and the other is caused by swinging too left? Maybe I'm reading too far into golfer's swings. Just curious I guess.

 

No just players compensating different to solve a problem. Many also have no clue how the lower body should work

 

Would you say that many have been lied to about the lower body? As in there is a lower body lie being perpetrated?

 

Home run!!!!

[ShutSteepStuck]

Less APT at address reduced my EE during the DS. I used to have tushline way behind my heels at address.

[Schnee]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

Yes, my question has been answered by respected instructors for which I am grateful. There is no need however for a internet parrot to repeat it.

 

Golfbeat: can I ask you an honest question? Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just asking for curiosity's sake.

 

What is it that you're looking to get out of your line of questioning on this and other subjects? You've made it known in the George Gankas threads (unfortunately shut down repeatedly) that you're a big fan of his teachings and that you've made significant improvement since adopting his methodologies and working on your swing. I personally think his ideas have a lot of merit, particularly his course management and mental approach.

 

I guess my question is, if his stuff is working so well for you, why do you question it here on WRX? It seems like you want the other instructors here to validate what George has taught you, rather than just trusting your own changes and continuing to improve.

 

If you're just an inquiring mind about the swing I totally get that. But it sort of seems like you're having trouble committing and have one foot in the door and one foot out.

[Krt22]

Do GG and Jim Waldron have a similar line of thinking? He seems to be sipping that flavor koolaid as well

[Ghost of Snead]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

Yes, my question has been answered by respected instructors for which I am grateful. There is no need however for a internet parrot to repeat it.

 

Golfbeat: can I ask you an honest question? Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just asking for curiosity's sake.

 

What is it that you're looking to get out of your line of questioning on this and other subjects? You've made it known in the George Gankas threads (unfortunately shut down repeatedly) that you're a big fan of his teachings and that you've made significant improvement since adopting his methodologies and working on your swing. I personally think his ideas have a lot of merit, particularly his course management and mental approach.

 

I guess my question is, if his stuff is working so well for you, why do you question it here on WRX? It seems like you want the other instructors here to validate what George has taught you, rather than just trusting your own changes and continuing to improve.

 

If you're just an inquiring mind about the swing I totally get that. But it sort of seems like you're having trouble committing and have one foot in the door and one foot out.

 

And what happens if the other instructors don't validate the GG way ? Back to the drawing board ?

 

IMO, GG is very wise to stay off of this forum.

[VTHOKIM]

This topic gave me a headache trying to understand...

[Golfbeat]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

Yes, my question has been answered by respected instructors for which I am grateful. There is no need however for a internet parrot to repeat it.

 

Golfbeat: can I ask you an honest question? Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just asking for curiosity's sake.

 

What is it that you're looking to get out of your line of questioning on this and other subjects? You've made it known in the George Gankas threads (unfortunately shut down repeatedly) that you're a big fan of his teachings and that you've made significant improvement since adopting his methodologies and working on your swing. I personally think his ideas have a lot of merit, particularly his course management and mental approach.

 

I guess my question is, if his stuff is working so well for you, why do you question it here on WRX? It seems like you want the other instructors here to validate what George has taught you, rather than just trusting your own changes and continuing to improve.

 

If you're just an inquiring mind about the swing I totally get that. But it sort of seems like you're having trouble committing and have one foot in the door and one foot out.

 

I would say it like this. I am working hard to learn as much as I can about George's way of teaching and trying to implement the moves which he believes in. I am also trying to understand how his methods differ from the "main stream" instruction (if something like this exists) and how these differences might influence my swing.

 

To date I have had a lot of success with his method and I am still seeing new things that I think are new and interesting and of benefit to my golf game. Some people seem to have an aversion against his methods and ideas which I think is a pity. An open and inquisitive mind has never done anybody any harm.

[bph7]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

Yes, my question has been answered by respected instructors for which I am grateful. There is no need however for a internet parrot to repeat it.

 

Golfbeat: can I ask you an honest question? Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just asking for curiosity's sake.

 

What is it that you're looking to get out of your line of questioning on this and other subjects? You've made it known in the George Gankas threads (unfortunately shut down repeatedly) that you're a big fan of his teachings and that you've made significant improvement since adopting his methodologies and working on your swing. I personally think his ideas have a lot of merit, particularly his course management and mental approach.

 

I guess my question is, if his stuff is working so well for you, why do you question it here on WRX? It seems like you want the other instructors here to validate what George has taught you, rather than just trusting your own changes and continuing to improve.

 

If you're just an inquiring mind about the swing I totally get that. But it sort of seems like you're having trouble committing and have one foot in the door and one foot out.

 

I would say it like this. I am working hard to learn as much as I can about George's way of teaching and trying to implement the moves which he believes in. I am also trying to understand how his methods differ from the "main stream" instruction (if something like this exists) and how these differences might influence my swing.

 

To date I have had a lot of success with his method and I am still seeing new things that I think are new and interesting and of benefit to my golf game. Some people seem to have an aversion against his methods and ideas which I think is a pity. An open and inquisitive mind has never done anybody any harm.

 

Who has anything against GG? Every instructor I know that I've asked has given him rave reviews, the people that I know have seen him have gotten a lot better, and it seems like he's generally pretty popular. The threads involving him devolved because of the usual debates and inability to see nuance with regard to feels vs mechanics.

 

I'll get a lesson from him next time I'm in SoCal and I know others that are the same.

[drewtaylor21]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

George doesn't say that setup is the main cause of EE either. He's saying that excessive butt out/back extension makes things much more difficult than they need to be to get the body working the way it should coming into impact. He's certainly not alone in teaching this approach.

 

I just had a lesson with Dana Dahlquist yesterday and he put me in a very similar address position. Feels very strange and un-athletic, but it does work....

[glk]

Now you're famous!