Is early extension mainly caused by set up posture?

[bph7]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

George doesn't say that setup is the main cause of EE either. He's saying that excessive butt out/back extension makes things much more difficult than they need to be to get the body working the way it should coming into impact. He's certainly not alone in teaching this approach.

 

I just had a lesson with Dana Dahlquist yesterday and he put me in a very similar address position. Feels very strange and un-athletic, but it does work....

 

And that's fine. But OP started a thread and got answers. What does GG have to do with this? His name didn't even come up until post 23. OP asked if setup was the main cause of EE, got told no, then mentioned something about a nameless respected instructor, then it somehow turns into people being anti-GG. There just seems to be a massive disconnect here. What am I missing?

[drewtaylor21]

And that's fine. But OP started a thread and got answers. What does GG have to do with this? His name didn't even come up until post 23. OP asked if setup was the main cause of EE, got told no, then mentioned something about a nameless respected instructor, then it somehow turns into people being anti-GG. There just seems to be a massive disconnect here. What am I missing?

 

The OP included an instagram post from GG and golfbeat asked specifically about it......

[Golfbeat]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

George doesn't say that setup is the main cause of EE either. He's saying that excessive butt out/back extension makes things much more difficult than they need to be to get the body working the way it should coming into impact. He's certainly not alone in teaching this approach.

 

I just had a lesson with Dana Dahlquist yesterday and he put me in a very similar address position. Feels very strange and un-athletic, but it does work....

 

And that's fine. But OP started a thread and got answers. What does GG have to do with this? His name didn't even come up until post 23. OP asked if setup was the main cause of EE, got told no, then mentioned something about a nameless respected instructor, then it somehow turns into people being anti-GG. There just seems to be a massive disconnect here. What am I missing?

 

What you are missing is the GG Instagram which is in the first post. The mentioning of GG kool aid in a post and the remark of "GG pivot reduces green house gases".

[bph7]

And that's fine. But OP started a thread and got answers. What does GG have to do with this? His name didn't even come up until post 23. OP asked if setup was the main cause of EE, got told no, then mentioned something about a nameless respected instructor, then it somehow turns into people being anti-GG. There just seems to be a massive disconnect here. What am I missing?

 

The OP included an instagram post from GG and golfbeat asked specifically about it......

 

It wasn't posed as "is GG right". It was just posed as a simple question and for whatever reason multiple attempts were made not to mention his name. I didn't know that the identity of the instructor mattered for the question. In any event, seems like a question was asked and answered.

 

I think GG is a really good teacher, seems like a lot of other people do as well.

 

Still not really sure what's going on.

[Bobalu]

A lot of these GG positions (like the tucked setup) are just exaggerated feels to help a golfer who sticks their butt out too much along with excessive low back lordotic curvature (young female golfers are particularly prone to this).

[PJ1120]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

George doesn't say that setup is the main cause of EE either. He's saying that excessive butt out/back extension makes things much more difficult than they need to be to get the body working the way it should coming into impact. He's certainly not alone in teaching this approach.

 

I just had a lesson with Dana Dahlquist yesterday and he put me in a very similar address position. Feels very strange and un-athletic, but it does work....

 

And that's fine. But OP started a thread and got answers. What does GG have to do with this? His name didn't even come up until post 23. OP asked if setup was the main cause of EE, got told no, then mentioned something about a nameless respected instructor, then it somehow turns into people being anti-GG. There just seems to be a massive disconnect here. What am I missing?

 

What you are missing is the GG Instagram which is in the first post. The mentioning of GG kool aid in a post and the remark of "GG pivot reduces green house gases".

 

Yes......the kool aid and green house gases comments are completely uncalled for. It's obvious some posters like what GG has to say. It's also obvious that some teaching pros and their followers don't like the attention GG receives here. It's really pretty petty.

[chrisgilly09]

Wont someone think of the children...my goodness

 

Monte already said he likes him, next

[PJ1120]

Wont someone think of the children...my goodness

 

Monte already said he likes him, next

 

If you like a fellow Pro and what he has to say wouldn't you make a constructive comment to the OP rather than a little snipe? At least Dan had the balls to say he didn't believe the set up issue to be a factor in EE whether he was right or not.

[Ghost of Snead]

Wont someone think of the children...my goodness

 

Monte already said he likes him, next

 

If you like a fellow Pro and what he has to say wouldn't you make a constructive comment to the OP rather than a little snipe? At least Dan had the balls to say he didn't believe the set up issue to be a factor in EE whether he was right or not.

 

I took it as humor and not as a snipe at GG ... time for a few to take a few steps away from the keyboard and lighten up.

[PJ1120]

Sorry.........not going to let it pass that easily. It was a snipe disguised as humor. We've had 2-3 GG threads here erased. Some people for whatever reasons don't want him to have much of a following. If they don't like what he has to say then don't read it......pretty easy.

[oikos1]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

Yes, my question has been answered by respected instructors for which I am grateful. There is no need however for a internet parrot to repeat it.

 

Golfbeat: can I ask you an honest question? Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just asking for curiosity's sake.

 

What is it that you're looking to get out of your line of questioning on this and other subjects? You've made it known in the George Gankas threads (unfortunately shut down repeatedly) that you're a big fan of his teachings and that you've made significant improvement since adopting his methodologies and working on your swing. I personally think his ideas have a lot of merit, particularly his course management and mental approach.

 

I guess my question is, if his stuff is working so well for you, why do you question it here on WRX? It seems like you want the other instructors here to validate what George has taught you, rather than just trusting your own changes and continuing to improve.

 

If you're just an inquiring mind about the swing I totally get that. But it sort of seems like you're having trouble committing and have one foot in the door and one foot out.

 

And what happens if the other instructors don't validate the GG way ? Back to the drawing board ?

 

IMO, GG is very wise to stay off of this forum.

 

The only ones who can "validate" the GG way are the ones who benefit from it. Everything else is an open-ended discussion which quite frankly is the only reason this place exists to begin with...

[bph7]

Wont someone think of the children...my goodness

 

Monte already said he likes him, next

 

If you like a fellow Pro and what he has to say wouldn't you make a constructive comment to the OP rather than a little snipe? At least Dan had the balls to say he didn't believe the set up issue to be a factor in EE whether he was right or not.

 

I took it as humor and not as a snipe at GG ... time for a few to take a few steps away from the keyboard and lighten up.

 

This seriously. Also, as someone stated earlier, GG himself doesn't even think setup is the MOST important factor for EE. So most of the teachers who posted actually agreed with GG at least in terms of how the question was posed. Seriously, what is going on here, why are people thinking there is some conspiracy?

[Ghost of Snead]

Sorry.........not going to let it pass that easily. It was a snipe disguised as humor. We've had 2-3 GG threads here erased. Some people for whatever reasons don't want him to have much of a following. If they don't like what he has to say then don't read it......pretty easy.

 

GG seems to be doing quite well despite all of the "snide" comments on WrX ...

[PJ1120]

Yes he appears to be doing well. I'll bow out now because it really doesn't matter in the long run. I think he's a great instructor as do a few others here. I just don't understand why those who don't feel the same way feel compelled to post on a pro GG thread.

[MonteScheinblum]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

Well that one respected instructor appears to be outnumbered on this thread by other respected instructors. I think your question has been pretty clearly and conclusively answered: No, setup is NOT the "main cause" for EE.

 

George doesn't say that setup is the main cause of EE either. He's saying that excessive butt out/back extension makes things much more difficult than they need to be to get the body working the way it should coming into impact. He's certainly not alone in teaching this approach.

 

I just had a lesson with Dana Dahlquist yesterday and he put me in a very similar address position. Feels very strange and un-athletic, but it does work....

 

Bingo.

[Fiber]

I hear the GG pivot reduces green house gases.

 

This is huge! Does it mean we get tax relief from GG lessons. I hope it covers online lessons as well.

[Golf nerd]

Now you're famous!

Oh!

That was Drew?

[jurr80]

Umm...I think the guys that say setup is not the main issue are the ones with absolutely no clue, and that's probably why they end up with students having to throw their arms all over the place.

You can't retain much angle if you have no room.

Observe the two photos. Photo one is a setup that I took on about 3 days after a nice little trip I took to receive instruction. I won't go into who that was ?.

Butt out. Goat humped. Arms flailing.

Photo 2 is "bad posture" after ONE HOUR with GG.

Hmmm...butt's kinda out now, isn't it?

[RBImGuy]

I was watching this Instagram and thought that the discussion in the side line was interesting. Apart from the guy maybe needing longer clubs, what do you think about having a more rounded upper back and having no arch in the lower back. Generally, standing a bit closer to the ball. I would be afraid of back pain but have no evidence that it would might cause back pain as long as the lower back would not be rounded?

 

https://www.instagra...-by=ggswingtips

 

back pain isnt from the set up even if that is often a major cause for things to go wrong later as you cant avoid pressure in the lower back with any modern swing.

since you twist and have no spine support as soon you loose integrity you crash your back.

[Golf nerd]

 

 

 

1.Grant starts with a curved back set up, which he changes in his backswing. His top of the backswing looks petty common and his position there is no different to common teaching. It gives him a better feel to maintain the tush line, but he has to do it on purpose. One more thing to think about...

 

 

2.In the follow thru Grants move puts lots of stress on his discs as hips turn relatively flat and shoulders very steep. That causes a strong curve and the discs in the lower to mid section of the spine are compressed a lot on the right side which can press the fluid in the disc to the left side. Don't think that goat humping will be more severe on the discs as extension straightens the spine which usually releases some stress. But I am not a spine doctor. ;-)

[Golfah]

The original question is a bit of a problem, as I would imagine that the "main cause" of EE would vary from golfer to golfer depending on the extremeness of the setup fault. After experimenting with this, I have found that setting up with what I feel is like an old lady with osteoperosis does help me turn and create space, and most importantly, I can bash driver after driver with no lingering pain. And, I will also say that until I saw the GG material, I never made the connection between this setup tweak and the ability to rotate/create space, nor have I ever heard this connection from any instructor or read in any book. Now, I seem to see it pop up more often now, even in Monte's D4D video. So, to me, this is an important setup subtlety to monitor, but not focus as a cure-all.

[caseFSU]

 

 

 

1.Grant starts with a curved back set up, which he changes in his backswing. His top of the backswing looks petty common and his position there is no different to common teaching. It gives him a better feel to maintain the tush line, but he has to do it on purpose. One more thing to think about...

 

 

2.In the follow thru Grants move puts lots of stress on his discs as hips turn relatively flat and shoulders very steep. That causes a strong curve and the discs in the lower to mid section of the spine are compressed a lot on the right side which can press the fluid in the disc to the left side. Don't think that goat humping will be more severe on the discs as extension straightens the spine which usually releases some stress. But I am not a spine doctor. ;-)

 

To add to this. The kid has an "extreme" setup due to disc issues. From the Instagram post:

• 
   
  
• jeffreyjay5@golfepilates The "ugly and poor" posture has helped alleviate a lot of back pain in my swing. Sticking my a** out and then humping the ball left me hurting for days. This is from a guy with three herniated discs in the lower back. Rotation>posture. GG's ways are the truth.
  

[iteachgolf]

Umm...I think the guys that say setup is not the main issue are the ones with absolutely no clue, and that's probably why they end up with students having to throw their arms all over the place.

You can't retain much angle if you have no room.

Observe the two photos. Photo one is a setup that I took on about 3 days after a nice little trip I took to receive instruction. I won't go into who that was ?.

Butt out. Goat humped. Arms flailing.

Photo 2 is "bad posture" after ONE HOUR with GG.

Hmmm...butt's kinda out now, isn't it?

 

The second set of photos is from your second trip to GG after working on it for months. Why do you feel the need to lie?

 

Your setup wasn't the reason for your early extension in the first set either. It was a byproduct of your backswing. Even funnier is your butt wasn't "out" in the first set. You're in posterior pelvic tilt. In the second set you have MORE anterior pelvic tilt and you have your butt MORE behind your heels and out.

 

 

If you're gonna say someone doesn't have a clue you should make sure that you have one first

[ChrizZ]

One could argue that EE is actually not a swing fault because it helps to shallow the club on the downswing. Having analyzed a lot of tour Pro swings I´d estimate atleast 50% of PGA tour players have EE.

[glk]

 

 

 

1.Grant starts with a curved back set up, which he changes in his backswing. His top of the backswing looks petty common and his position there is no different to common teaching. It gives him a better feel to maintain the tush line, but he has to do it on purpose. One more thing to think about...

 

 

2.In the follow thru Grants move puts lots of stress on his discs as hips turn relatively flat and shoulders very steep. That causes a strong curve and the discs in the lower to mid section of the spine are compressed a lot on the right side which can press the fluid in the disc to the left side. Don't think that goat humping will be more severe on the discs as extension straightens the spine which usually releases some stress. But I am not a spine doctor. ;-)

 

To add to this. The kid has an "extreme" setup due to disc issues. From the Instagram post:

• 
  
• jeffreyjay5@golfepilates The "ugly and poor" posture has helped alleviate a lot of back pain in my swing. Sticking my a** out and then humping the ball left me hurting for days. This is from a guy with three herniated discs in the lower back. Rotation>posture. GG's ways are the truth.
  

Appears that is a comment from the peanut gallery. Jeffreyjay5, I assume is not named Grant in real life. From the comments it appears he is setup as he is since he is 6' 7" and using clubs too short for him.

[johnrobison]

Now you're famous!

Oh!

That was Drew?

[media=]

[/media]

Oh snap! I just watched that one yesterday and didn't make the connection.

He really IS famous now!

[Golfbeat]

The original question is a bit of a problem, as I would imagine that the "main cause" of EE would vary from golfer to golfer depending on the extremeness of the setup fault. After experimenting with this, I have found that setting up with what I feel is like an old lady with osteoperosis does help me turn and create space, and most importantly, I can bash driver after driver with no lingering pain. And, I will also say that until I saw the GG material, I never made the connection between this setup tweak and the ability to rotate/create space, nor have I ever heard this connection from any instructor or read in any book. Now, I seem to see it pop up more often now, even in Monte's D4D video. So, to me, this is an important setup subtlety to monitor, but not focus as a cure-all.

 

With hindsight, I should have said a major contributor. Would probably facilitated the discussion better.

[Arafel]

Or, how much does set up contribute to EE?

 

If you were looking to learn something that was the best way to go.

[Golfah]

The original question is a bit of a problem, as I would imagine that the "main cause" of EE would vary from golfer to golfer depending on the extremeness of the setup fault. After experimenting with this, I have found that setting up with what I feel is like an old lady with osteoperosis does help me turn and create space, and most importantly, I can bash driver after driver with no lingering pain. And, I will also say that until I saw the GG material, I never made the connection between this setup tweak and the ability to rotate/create space, nor have I ever heard this connection from any instructor or read in any book. Now, I seem to see it pop up more often now, even in Monte's D4D video. So, to me, this is an important setup subtlety to monitor, but not focus as a cure-all.

 

With hindsight, I should have said a major contributor. Would probably facilitated the discussion better.

 

Yes, but there is also no reason for a potentially informative thread to devolve so rapidly because a few words were not precisely vetted before posting. I knew what the general idea of the OP was, and was interested to see the responses since I have experimented with it.

[MonteScheinblum]

Wont someone think of the children...my goodness

 

Monte already said he likes him, next

 

If you like a fellow Pro and what he has to say wouldn't you make a constructive comment to the OP rather than a little snipe? At least Dan had the balls to say he didn't believe the set up issue to be a factor in EE whether he was right or not.

 

Get over yourself. I have made nothing but positive comments about GG's stuff here. My snipe was at Golfbeat and it was about as benign as has ever been made on this forum.

 

Go read the drive for dough thread where he said slice fixers book would come out before my video would. I didn't throw a hissy fit and get personal like you did, I laughed because it was funny and gave him a little right back here.