Is early extension mainly caused by set up posture?

[bph7]

The original question is a bit of a problem, as I would imagine that the "main cause" of EE would vary from golfer to golfer depending on the extremeness of the setup fault. After experimenting with this, I have found that setting up with what I feel is like an old lady with osteoperosis does help me turn and create space, and most importantly, I can bash driver after driver with no lingering pain. And, I will also say that until I saw the GG material, I never made the connection between this setup tweak and the ability to rotate/create space, nor have I ever heard this connection from any instructor or read in any book. Now, I seem to see it pop up more often now, even in Monte's D4D video. So, to me, this is an important setup subtlety to monitor, but not focus as a cure-all.

 

With hindsight, I should have said a major contributor. Would probably facilitated the discussion better.

 

Yes, but there is also no reason for a potentially informative thread to devolve so rapidly because a few words were not precisely vetted before posting. I knew what the general idea of the OP was, and was interested to see the responses since I have experimented with it.

 

I think it goes without saying, and no one would seriously disagree, that nonoptimal setup and posture can be a contributor to almost any issue with one's swing, including EE. The extent to which setup causes the issue is a whole other can of worms. I personally think it's not the main cause but is a cause. So in this case I don't think it's a matter of quibbling, the question seemed pretty clear to me and most others who responded. It also appears, according to GG based on what others have said, that he doesn't think it's the "main" issue.

 

So, if the question is "how important is setup", I think the general consensus is that setup is a bit lower down the list, not at the top but not at the bottom. A more interesting discussion may be to discuss HOW setup may contribute to swing issues like EE, I'd be curious to hear what others think on that.

[MK7Golf21]

I think that the idea is that if your butt is sticking out at address, it will naturally want to move forward in the downswing. Conversely, if the butt is tucked under at address you want to naturally create space and stick out your butt in the down swing. Balance and counter balance. At least one respected instructor says that one reason that there are so many people in early extension these days is because they were all taught to sit on the bar stool with their butt out. It kind of makes sense to me.

 

I can respect that idea as a good drill. Dont think I would want to be setting up with no room all the time though.

[MK7Golf21]

I think Monte has a similar drill, something like having two balls and address the outside one but hit the inside one on way down.

[dlygrisse]

I think Monte has a similar drill, something like having two balls and address the outside one but hit the inside one on way down.

 

There is a joke in there somewhere....having two balls while working on not goat humping.......oh never mind. :stop:

[Krt22]

I think Monte has a similar drill, something like having two balls and address the outside one but hit the inside one on way down.

 

Yep its exactly that, I use it whenever I develop a hosel attraction.

[Arafel]

I think Monte has a similar drill, something like having two balls and address the outside one but hit the inside one on way down.

 

There is a joke in there somewhere....having two balls while working on not goat humping.......oh never mind. :stop:

 

The Jeeps are red.

The balls are round.

The goats are humped.

 

I just don't see how you could possibly make a joke out of this.

[drewtaylor21]

Now you're famous!

Oh!

That was Drew?

[media=]

[/media]

Oh snap! I just watched that one yesterday and didn't make the connection.

He really IS famous now!

 

Haha, yeah pretty psyched he got those first two skanked shots on film! :rofl:

[Ghost of Snead]

Now you're famous!

Oh!

That was Drew?

[media=]

[/media]

Oh snap! I just watched that one yesterday and didn't make the connection.

He really IS famous now!

 

Haha, yeah pretty psyched he got those first two skanked shots on film! :rofl:

 

Drew, no worries ... we've all seen Poulter and Simpson shank under competition ! Part of the process ...

[drewtaylor21]

Drew, no worries ... we've all seen Poulter and Simpson shank under competition ! Part of the process ...

 

Haha no I know, I'm not terribly concerned with where the ball goes at the minute, it's just always fun when a few hundred people see you top it, then drop kick it :)

 

Putting the pieces together is going to take a lot of work, but I actually really like the feeling of shots like the third one in that video....no effort to square the club at all, and body is opening nicely.

 

Slow-mo and mirrors for the time being....

 

 

 

[MK7Golf21]

I think Monte has a similar drill, something like having two balls and address the outside one but hit the inside one on way down.

 

There is a joke in there somewhere....having two balls while working on not goat humping.......oh never mind. :stop:

 

The Jeeps are red.

The balls are round.

The goats are humped.

 

I just don't see how you could possibly make a joke out of this.

 

as usual, thanks for the wonderful insight into the topic at hand. Your just a wealth of swing knowledge and helpfulness, should post your swing up sometime since your always so helpful.

[Kuuuch]

Drew, no worries ... we've all seen Poulter and Simpson shank under competition ! Part of the process ...

 

Haha no I know, I'm not terribly concerned with where the ball goes at the minute, it's just always fun when a few hundred people see you top it, then drop kick it :)

 

Putting the pieces together is going to take a lot of work, but I actually really like the feeling of shots like the third one in that video....no effort to square the club at all, and body is opening nicely.

 

Slow-mo and mirrors for the time being....

 

 

 

 

Drew, curious to how you are going to implement that? Obviously mirrors and slow-work is crucial but I'm in the same boat as far as making a swing change where the outcome of the shot isn't the top priority for the moment. I for one tend to become obsessed with a swing change and its all I do for days on end and when its not the easiest of change I lose confidence in my game. I've recently tried a new approach where instead of spending the entire range session working solely on the move I'm ingraining, I'll go back and forth between slo-mo/mirrors and normal shots, my philosophy now is trying to let the swing change bleed into my normal swing. How do you do it or are going to go about it?

[Golfbeat]

Drew, no worries ... we've all seen Poulter and Simpson shank under competition ! Part of the process ...

 

Haha no I know, I'm not terribly concerned with where the ball goes at the minute, it's just always fun when a few hundred people see you top it, then drop kick it :)

 

Putting the pieces together is going to take a lot of work, but I actually really like the feeling of shots like the third one in that video....no effort to square the club at all, and body is opening nicely.

 

Slow-mo and mirrors for the time being....

 

 

 

 

That looks on the money! Great moves.

[Bobalu]

Drew, no worries ... we've all seen Poulter and Simpson shank under competition ! Part of the process ...

 

Haha no I know, I'm not terribly concerned with where the ball goes at the minute, it's just always fun when a few hundred people see you top it, then drop kick it :)

 

Putting the pieces together is going to take a lot of work, but I actually really like the feeling of shots like the third one in that video....no effort to square the club at all, and body is opening nicely.

 

Slow-mo and mirrors for the time being....

 

 

 

 

Cool- this is almost identical to what George Gankas is teaching his juniors. Same setup, pivot, rotation, positions, feels, etc. George just uses some exaggerated 'feel' motions to hasten the learning process.

[Golfbeat]

Drew, no worries ... we've all seen Poulter and Simpson shank under competition ! Part of the process ...

 

Haha no I know, I'm not terribly concerned with where the ball goes at the minute, it's just always fun when a few hundred people see you top it, then drop kick it :)

 

Putting the pieces together is going to take a lot of work, but I actually really like the feeling of shots like the third one in that video....no effort to square the club at all, and body is opening nicely.

 

Slow-mo and mirrors for the time being....

 

 

 

 

Drew, curious to how you are going to implement that? Obviously mirrors and slow-work is crucial but I'm in the same boat as far as making a swing change where the outcome of the shot isn't the top priority for the moment. I for one tend to become obsessed with a swing change and its all I do for days on end and when its not the easiest of change I lose confidence in my game. I've recently tried a new approach where instead of spending the entire range session working solely on the move I'm ingraining, I'll go back and forth between slo-mo/mirrors and normal shots, my philosophy now is trying to let the swing change bleed into my normal swing. How do you do it or are going to go about it?

 

I think that the drill work must produce good ball striking. If the ball striking is not good it mean that the drill is not done correctly. My personal mistakes are that I sometimes do not put enough forward bend in in transition and that the hands are not forward enough (over the left shoe) at impact. These mistakes create a lot of mishits but when I do the drill correctly I have the greatest and most effortless ball striking. The difficulty is too be brave and stay with the drill feelings on the course and not go back to your old ways if you hit a few badly.

[drewtaylor21]

Drew, curious to how you are going to implement that? Obviously mirrors and slow-work is crucial but I'm in the same boat as far as making a swing change where the outcome of the shot isn't the top priority for the moment. I for one tend to become obsessed with a swing change and its all I do for days on end and when its not the easiest of change I lose confidence in my game. I've recently tried a new approach where instead of spending the entire range session working solely on the move I'm ingraining, I'll go back and forth between slo-mo/mirrors and normal shots, my philosophy now is trying to let the swing change bleed into my normal swing. How do you do it or are going to go about it?

 

I do slow-mo swings throughout the day to ingrain things, but one of the biggest helps for me is that I have an impact screen set up in my garage that I can actually hit balls into to continue ingraining things without seeing ball flight. It makes it much easier to disassociate from the "failure" of hitting a ball sideways. I'll film swings in there so I can see if I'm doing what I'm supposed to, but a bad shot is much easier forgotten in that environment I've found. A few days of that and I'll feel capable of making a fuller swing, so I'll head outside to a real range and see how things hold up.

[Kuuuch]

Drew, curious to how you are going to implement that? Obviously mirrors and slow-work is crucial but I'm in the same boat as far as making a swing change where the outcome of the shot isn't the top priority for the moment. I for one tend to become obsessed with a swing change and its all I do for days on end and when its not the easiest of change I lose confidence in my game. I've recently tried a new approach where instead of spending the entire range session working solely on the move I'm ingraining, I'll go back and forth between slo-mo/mirrors and normal shots, my philosophy now is trying to let the swing change bleed into my normal swing. How do you do it or are going to go about it?

 

I do slow-mo swings throughout the day to ingrain things, but one of the biggest helps for me is that I have an impact screen set up in my garage that I can actually hit balls into to continue ingraining things without seeing ball flight. It makes it much easier to disassociate from the "failure" of hitting a ball sideways. I'll film swings in there so I can see if I'm doing what I'm supposed to, but a bad shot is much easier forgotten in that environment I've found. A few days of that and I'll feel capable of making a fuller swing, so I'll head outside to a real range and see how things hold up.

 

Good idea and thanks for the response. I have a net/mat in my garage as well with a practice ball that's collecting dust so I'll put that to use for when I'm not on the range.

[Kuuuch]

Drew, no worries ... we've all seen Poulter and Simpson shank under competition ! Part of the process ...

 

Haha no I know, I'm not terribly concerned with where the ball goes at the minute, it's just always fun when a few hundred people see you top it, then drop kick it :)

 

Putting the pieces together is going to take a lot of work, but I actually really like the feeling of shots like the third one in that video....no effort to square the club at all, and body is opening nicely.

 

Slow-mo and mirrors for the time being....

 

 

 

 

Drew, curious to how you are going to implement that? Obviously mirrors and slow-work is crucial but I'm in the same boat as far as making a swing change where the outcome of the shot isn't the top priority for the moment. I for one tend to become obsessed with a swing change and its all I do for days on end and when its not the easiest of change I lose confidence in my game. I've recently tried a new approach where instead of spending the entire range session working solely on the move I'm ingraining, I'll go back and forth between slo-mo/mirrors and normal shots, my philosophy now is trying to let the swing change bleed into my normal swing. How do you do it or are going to go about it?

 

I think that the drill work must produce good ball striking. If the ball striking is not good it mean that the drill is not done correctly. My personal mistakes are that I sometimes do not put enough forward bend in in transition and that the hands are not forward enough (over the left shoe) at impact. These mistakes create a lot of mishits but when I do the drill correctly I have the greatest and most effortless ball striking. The difficulty is too be brave and stay with the drill feelings on the course and not go back to your old ways if you hit a few badly.

 

Oh I agree about the drill not being done correctly if you aren't seeing better shots but I tend to be very shot driven and seeing those bad shots screws with my head. I'm working on not having the hands work so down in the downswing and so when I move them out, it freaks me out that I'm going to miss the ball, obviously having the proper rotation makes it all come together but its still a tough thing to fully commit to.

[Bobalu]

GG "stock" setup position:

 

Line extends through armpits, kneecaps, and balls of feet.

 

Slightly more upright stance with a slight tucking in of the pelvis.

 

Slight curve in upper back with lower back flat.

 

The weight should feel balanced between the balls of the feet and heels.

 

The setup may be exaggerated for a new student- as a 'feel' for the position change.

 

 

 

[spider]

Drew, curious to how you are going to implement that? Obviously mirrors and slow-work is crucial but I'm in the same boat as far as making a swing change where the outcome of the shot isn't the top priority for the moment. I for one tend to become obsessed with a swing change and its all I do for days on end and when its not the easiest of change I lose confidence in my game. I've recently tried a new approach where instead of spending the entire range session working solely on the move I'm ingraining, I'll go back and forth between slo-mo/mirrors and normal shots, my philosophy now is trying to let the swing change bleed into my normal swing. How do you do it or are going to go about it?

 

I do slow-mo swings throughout the day to ingrain things, but one of the biggest helps for me is that I have an impact screen set up in my garage that I can actually hit balls into to continue ingraining things without seeing ball flight. It makes it much easier to disassociate from the "failure" of hitting a ball sideways. I'll film swings in there so I can see if I'm doing what I'm supposed to, but a bad shot is much easier forgotten in that environment I've found. A few days of that and I'll feel capable of making a fuller swing, so I'll head outside to a real range and see how things hold up.

 

Drew, what made you go to DD vs GG this time? Any noticeable differences in teaching?

[drewtaylor21]

Drew, curious to how you are going to implement that? Obviously mirrors and slow-work is crucial but I'm in the same boat as far as making a swing change where the outcome of the shot isn't the top priority for the moment. I for one tend to become obsessed with a swing change and its all I do for days on end and when its not the easiest of change I lose confidence in my game. I've recently tried a new approach where instead of spending the entire range session working solely on the move I'm ingraining, I'll go back and forth between slo-mo/mirrors and normal shots, my philosophy now is trying to let the swing change bleed into my normal swing. How do you do it or are going to go about it?

 

I do slow-mo swings throughout the day to ingrain things, but one of the biggest helps for me is that I have an impact screen set up in my garage that I can actually hit balls into to continue ingraining things without seeing ball flight. It makes it much easier to disassociate from the "failure" of hitting a ball sideways. I'll film swings in there so I can see if I'm doing what I'm supposed to, but a bad shot is much easier forgotten in that environment I've found. A few days of that and I'll feel capable of making a fuller swing, so I'll head outside to a real range and see how things hold up.

 

Drew, what made you go to DD vs GG this time? Any noticeable differences in teaching?

 

I said back in my original write-up of my lesson with George (in one of the threads that got deleted.....) that while I really like George and think he's great, his teaching style wasn't for me. I could have been more vocal about what I wanted from him, but it just wasn't a great fit. I've been working on his desired mechanics since that time, and have been actively using his membership site (great resource IMO), but never really planned to go back to see him. I've been watching all of Dana's social media content during the same time period and like a lot of what he teaches and how his guys swing it, so I finally got down to see him. My plan is to continue working with him for the foreseeable future.

 

As for actual differences, I know a lot more about GG's pattern and could explain it pretty well to anyone, but honestly don't know the ins and outs of DD's pattern yet. I know what he wants me to do though, and that's all I'm worried about really. Honestly, the big key that got me interested in seeing Dana was that he's not as fast-paced as George. He's pretty methodical, which is a good match for my personality. George gave me a LOT of info and jumped back and forth on several different topics and it was overwhelming. I left a little unsure about what I was supposed to focus on. I have a simple, clear plan with Dana, and that's big for me.

 

Both seem to teach similar set ups as well as a pivot-driven swing with a lot of shallowing, but it seems to manifest itself differently depending on the student. My immediate impressions are that George sticks closer to a fixed pattern while Dana allows for some wiggle room depending on the player. However, I've also seen quite a few of GG's lessons, and only experienced one full lesson with Dana, so that observation could be too much of a generalization. I'm sure I'll be reporting more as I continue working with Dana, but hopefully the above is helpful!

[ShutSteepStuck]

Drew, curious to how you are going to implement that? Obviously mirrors and slow-work is crucial but I'm in the same boat as far as making a swing change where the outcome of the shot isn't the top priority for the moment. I for one tend to become obsessed with a swing change and its all I do for days on end and when its not the easiest of change I lose confidence in my game. I've recently tried a new approach where instead of spending the entire range session working solely on the move I'm ingraining, I'll go back and forth between slo-mo/mirrors and normal shots, my philosophy now is trying to let the swing change bleed into my normal swing. How do you do it or are going to go about it?

 

I do slow-mo swings throughout the day to ingrain things, but one of the biggest helps for me is that I have an impact screen set up in my garage that I can actually hit balls into to continue ingraining things without seeing ball flight. It makes it much easier to disassociate from the "failure" of hitting a ball sideways. I'll film swings in there so I can see if I'm doing what I'm supposed to, but a bad shot is much easier forgotten in that environment I've found. A few days of that and I'll feel capable of making a fuller swing, so I'll head outside to a real range and see how things hold up.

 

Drew, what made you go to DD vs GG this time? Any noticeable differences in teaching?

 

I said back in my original write-up of my lesson with George (in one of the threads that got deleted.....) that while I really like George and think he's great, his teaching style wasn't for me. I could have been more vocal about what I wanted from him, but it just wasn't a great fit. I've been working on his desired mechanics since that time, and have been actively using his membership site (great resource IMO), but never really planned to go back to see him. I've been watching all of Dana's social media content during the same time period and like a lot of what he teaches and how his guys swing it, so I finally got down to see him. My plan is to continue working with him for the foreseeable future.

 

As for actual differences, I know a lot more about GG's pattern and could explain it pretty well to anyone, but honestly don't know the ins and outs of DD's pattern yet. I know what he wants me to do though, and that's all I'm worried about really. Honestly, the big key that got me interested in seeing Dana was that he's not as fast-paced as George. He's pretty methodical, which is a good match for my personality. George gave me a LOT of info and jumped back and forth on several different topics and it was overwhelming. I left a little unsure about what I was supposed to focus on. I have a simple, clear plan with Dana, and that's big for me.

 

Both seem to teach similar set ups as well as a pivot-driven swing with a lot of shallowing, but it seems to manifest itself differently depending on the student. My immediate impressions are that George sticks closer to a fixed pattern while Dana allows for some wiggle room depending on the player. However, I've also seen quite a few of GG's lessons, and only experienced one full lesson with Dana, so that observation could be too much of a generalization. I'm sure I'll be reporting more as I continue working with Dana, but hopefully the above is helpful!

 

Dial in those and let's tee it up when you come back to town. When do you think you'll see DD again?

[drewtaylor21]

Dial in those and let's tee it up when you come back to town. When do you think you'll see DD again?

 

Are you in LBC? (And do you get tired of people asking if you know Snoop? lol) Maybe the next time I'm down we can get a round in before I see Dana.....I'm always hesitant to play after a lesson. I kinda go into hiding and work things out until I'm able to put it in play. Hard to say just yet when I'll be back, but my guess would be 4-6 weeks? Really depends how quickly I pick up the changes he gave me and what happens with ball flights, etc. I've just been hitting in the garage for the past few days and things are feeling good, but it's always deceiving until I see a ball in the air. I'll keep you posted though!

[PepsiDuck]

Dial in those and let's tee it up when you come back to town. When do you think you'll see DD again?

 

Are you in LBC? (And do you get tired of people asking if you know Snoop? lol) Maybe the next time I'm down we can get a round in before I see Dana.....I'm always hesitant to play after a lesson. I kinda go into hiding and work things out until I'm able to put it in play. Hard to say just yet when I'll be back, but my guess would be 4-6 weeks? Really depends how quickly I pick up the changes he gave me and what happens with ball flights, etc. I've just been hitting in the garage for the past few days and things are feeling good, but it's always deceiving until I see a ball in the air. I'll keep you posted though!

 

I'd make the trip down for this...

[ShutSteepStuck]

Dial in those and let's tee it up when you come back to town. When do you think you'll see DD again?

 

Are you in LBC? (And do you get tired of people asking if you know Snoop? lol) Maybe the next time I'm down we can get a round in before I see Dana.....I'm always hesitant to play after a lesson. I kinda go into hiding and work things out until I'm able to put it in play. Hard to say just yet when I'll be back, but my guess would be 4-6 weeks? Really depends how quickly I pick up the changes he gave me and what happens with ball flights, etc. I've just been hitting in the garage for the past few days and things are feeling good, but it's always deceiving until I see a ball in the air. I'll keep you posted though!

 

Not in the 213 w/the homie Do double g lol I'm only 45mins to 3hrs up the 405 depending on traffic...but happy to come down that way (depending on the time of day).

 

Def. need to play BEFORE the lesson. Digging DD's approach on the YouTube vids., very clear and measured in his communication. Glad to hear things are feeling good.

 

 

I'd make the trip down for this...

 

That would be great!

[drewtaylor21]

 

Def. need to play BEFORE the lesson. Digging DD's approach on the YouTube vids., very clear and measured in his communication. Glad to hear things are feeling good.

 

I'd make the trip down for this...

 

That would be great!

 

I'm liking where this is headed! I'll be in touch gents....

[Golfbeat]

There are days I wished I lived further West!

[buckeye88us]

There are days I wished I lived further West!

No doubt!

[jurr80]

GG "stock" setup position:

 

Line extends through armpits, kneecaps, and balls of feet.

 

Slightly more upright stance with a slight tucking in of the pelvis.

 

Slight curve in upper back with lower back flat.

 

The weight should feel balanced between the balls of the feet and heels.

 

The setup may be exaggerated for a new student- as a 'feel' for the position change.

 

 

 

Absolutely right. Feels like you're a granny ready to attempt a golf swing.

[iteachgolf]

GG "stock" setup position:

 

Line extends through armpits, kneecaps, and balls of feet.

 

Slightly more upright stance with a slight tucking in of the pelvis.

 

Slight curve in upper back with lower back flat.

 

The weight should feel balanced between the balls of the feet and heels.

 

The setup may be exaggerated for a new student- as a 'feel' for the position change.

 

 

 

Absolutely right. Feels like you're a granny ready to attempt a golf swing.

 

Might feel that way to you but that's a normal setup. Same one almost every other teacher teaches.

[drewtaylor21]

GG "stock" setup position:

 

Line extends through armpits, kneecaps, and balls of feet.

 

Slightly more upright stance with a slight tucking in of the pelvis.

 

Slight curve in upper back with lower back flat.

 

The weight should feel balanced between the balls of the feet and heels.

 

The setup may be exaggerated for a new student- as a 'feel' for the position change.

 

 

 

Absolutely right. Feels like you're a granny ready to attempt a golf swing.

 

Might feel that way to you but that's a normal setup. Same one almost every other teacher teaches.

 

I've seen quite a few teachers giving lessons, and I've read a LOT of golf instruction. GG and Dana are literally the only two I've ever heard that teach this set up. I'm not saying no one else does, but if they do, they sure are secretive about it....