Posting a tournament score from a Best Ball comp.

[deadsolid...shank]

Just curious. We played a 2M best ball tournament last weekend. They played Lift, clean, & place everywhere on the course. And each player had a mulligan to be used anywhere. Everyone picked up at least a couple of three or four footers, those ones where the partner is in and you can't do any better.

 

Are there any stipulations on posting that score?

[mark m]

Hi DS

 

One of the key rules for posting is to play in accordance with the RoG. The Committee undermined those rules before the tournament started. I would say do not a 'T' score - and probably not post it at all(?) Get real!

 

Now - if you want to get technical, the rules would say to post par plus handicap on holes not played under the the rules. (Which would mean the hole where a 'mulligan' was used.) But this case is really silly season stuff IMO.

 

Mulligans are typically used for 2 reasons:

1. To raise money (either for charity or the prize pool). You can see this often in scrambles. When playing your own ball, it is better to stick with the real rules so scores can be posted.

2. The other reason is to create a format so that scores will not be posted. We had a couple of sandbaggers running things years ago and this was a tactic they employed in the rules for a big money tournament. It was a mess.

[Guia]

You shouldn't post it.

[deadsolid...shank]

Hi DS

 

One of the key rules for posting is to play in accordance with the RoG. The Committee undermined those rules before the tournament started. I would say do not a 'T' score - and probably not post it at all(?) Get real!

 

Now - if you want to get technical, the rules would say to post par plus handicap on holes not played under the the rules. (Which would mean the hole where a 'mulligan' was used.) But this case is really silly season stuff IMO.

 

Mulligans are typically used for 2 reasons:

1. To raise money (either for charity or the prize pool). You can see this often in scrambles. When playing your own ball, it is better to stick with the real rules so scores can be posted.

2. The other reason is to create a format so that scores will not be posted. We had a couple of sandbaggers running things years ago and this was a tactic they employed in the rules for a big money tournament. It was a mess.

 

We really weren't sure the reason for the special rules. I guess LCP counteracts those few people who bump it all the time, regardless of the rules. No extra $ for the mulligans. Lots of higher handicaps and people who don't play a lot of tournaments. Maybe something just to make them more comfortable? Like I've posted elsewhere in the past, there aren't many tournaments here anymore that you play your own ball.

 

 

You shouldn't post it.

 

The guy running the tournament already posted them as tournament scores. I was shocked when I looked today and saw it on there.

[Sawgrass]

Hi DS

 

One of the key rules for posting is to play in accordance with the RoG. The Committee undermined those rules before the tournament started. I would say do not a 'T' score - and probably not post it at all(?) Get real!

 

Now - if you want to get technical, the rules would say to post par plus handicap on holes not played under the the rules. (Which would mean the hole where a 'mulligan' was used.) But this case is really silly season stuff IMO.

 

Mulligans are typically used for 2 reasons:

1. To raise money (either for charity or the prize pool). You can see this often in scrambles. When playing your own ball, it is better to stick with the real rules so scores can be posted.

2. The other reason is to create a format so that scores will not be posted. We had a couple of sandbaggers running things years ago and this was a tactic they employed in the rules for a big money tournament. It was a mess.

 

We really weren't sure the reason for the special rules. I guess LCP counteracts those few people who bump it all the time, regardless of the rules. No extra $ for the mulligans. Lots of higher handicaps and people who don't play a lot of tournaments. Maybe something just to make them more comfortable? Like I've posted elsewhere in the past, there aren't many tournaments here anymore that you play your own ball.

 

 

You shouldn't post it.

 

The guy running the tournament already posted them as tournament scores. I was shocked when I looked today and saw it on there.

 

I agree with you that a tournament with Mulligans should in no cases be a T score, and should only even be posted with the adjustment that Mark recommended -- which of course could not have been made without the player having identified where his Mulligan was used.

 

But I want to add that LCP in itself should not interfere with a legitimate posting, or even a legitimate T score posting.

[Augster]

I think any score where you have a mulligan to use can't be posted. It interferes with the "operation of a rule" and basically is an agreement to waive the rules, 1-3.

 

Now if you had told your partner and your opponents you plan on playing golf today and will not be using a mulligan, then you could post it I think.

 

T-score? Not a chance.

[Sawgrass]

I think any score where you have a mulligan to use can't be posted. It interferes with the "operation of a rule" and basically is an agreement to waive the rules, 1-3.

 

Now if you had told your partner and your opponents you plan on playing golf today and will not be using a mulligan, then you could post it I think.

 

T-score? Not a chance.

 

I see that this is true. The fact that you could take a Mulligan might change your strategy even if you don't end up taking a Mulligan, so it screws everything up. And I agree that declaring that you won't take one (and living up to that declaration) would permit the score as a valid post.

[deadsolid...shank]

Thanks guys. It's pretty much in line with what I was thinking, but just wanted some other opinions. They're already on there, posted as T scores, so not much to do now but complain!

[Sawgrass]

Thanks guys. It's pretty much in line with what I was thinking, but just wanted some other opinions. They're already on there, posted as T scores, so not much to do now but complain!��

 

In all seriousness, I would complain -- to my handicap chair, who has the capacity to delete the round from your scoring record.

[Hateto3Putt]

Even without mulligans, how can a two man best ball score be posted?

 

Isn't the format one score for two guys?

 

If so, who's name/number does it get posted under? Yours, or your partners?

 

Point: If you're in the bunker in 3, your partner is in the hole in 3, you pick up, right? What score do you post?

 

::confused::

[Tcann32]

The only way this could be legit is if you and your partner went shot for shot and you played down and out, as in you still putt out for a double even though you're partner sank his par putt, etc.. which defeats the purpose.

 

Also, if it's a better score than usual and it'd lower your hcp, it's a double reason to not post. I'm definitely not a sandbagger and I want my hcp to go as low as I can get it, but having it drop a few strokes after 2-3 low rounds can make it difficult to play to.

 

At the end of the day, it's not a legitimate round/score.. unless you guys play a totally different best ball than I'm used to lol.

[nochct1]

Even without mulligans, how can a two man best ball score be posted?

 

Isn't the format one score for two guys?

 

If so, who's name/number does it get posted under? Yours, or your partners?

 

Point: If you're in the bunker in 3, your partner is in the hole in 3, you pick up, right? What score do you post?

 

::confused::

 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but best ball scores get posted a clubs across the country every day. The majority of games played are best ball. I've played a lot of best ball matches and end up finishing the hole. ESC comes into play on holes where someone is really out of it. Otherwise, in our matches, everyone is playing the hole. Sure, there are putts given. But that's match play. You can eliminate match play, or ask people not to post match play scores. But then you'd have people go an entire season without posting.

[Sawgrass]

If you pick up during a legitimate Best Ball tournament hole, you simply post your "most likely" score for that hole. It's not a choice, it's an obligation. Y(our individual score should be posted, not your "team" score.)

[deadsolid...shank]

Thanks guys. It's pretty much in line with what I was thinking, but just wanted some other opinions. They're already on there, posted as T scores, so not much to do now but complain!��

 

In all seriousness, I would complain -- to my handicap chair, who has the capacity to delete the round from your scoring record.

 

This tournament wasn't played at our home course. Does our course handicap committee have any leeway.

[deadsolid...shank]

Even without mulligans, how can a two man best ball score be posted?

 

Isn't the format one score for two guys?

 

If so, who's name/number does it get posted under? Yours, or your partners?

 

Point: If you're in the bunker in 3, your partner is in the hole in 3, you pick up, right? What score do you post?

 

::confused::

 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but best ball scores get posted a clubs across the country every day. The majority of games played are best ball. I've played a lot of best ball matches and end up finishing the hole. ESC comes into play on holes where someone is really out of it. Otherwise, in our matches, everyone is playing the hole. Sure, there are putts given. But that's match play. You can eliminate match play, or ask people not to post match play scores. But then you'd have people go an entire season without posting.

 

You're right Noch, we play most of our casual games as best ball, but usually do finish out the hole, even if we're basically out of it. Still trying to make the best score possible. This one was a bit different. Because it was tournament play in order to keep things moving we did actually pick up and not finish some holes. I know there are guidelines for this in regards to what score you post, so that in and of itself shouldn't make it non postable. But my main concern is when you combine that with the mulligan. And this wasn't the "breakfast ball" mulligan but a do over for any shot you took. And combined with L,C,&P, which I know is allowable, not just in closely mown areas, but anywhere on the course, it just doesn't seem to me to be a good postable score. Especially a tournament score.

 

I kind of loosely figured the score he posted for me was probably about four strokes better than my actual round.

[nochct1]

Even without mulligans, how can a two man best ball score be posted?

 

Isn't the format one score for two guys?

 

If so, who's name/number does it get posted under? Yours, or your partners?

 

Point: If you're in the bunker in 3, your partner is in the hole in 3, you pick up, right? What score do you post?

 

::confused::

 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but best ball scores get posted a clubs across the country every day. The majority of games played are best ball. I've played a lot of best ball matches and end up finishing the hole. ESC comes into play on holes where someone is really out of it. Otherwise, in our matches, everyone is playing the hole. Sure, there are putts given. But that's match play. You can eliminate match play, or ask people not to post match play scores. But then you'd have people go an entire season without posting.

 

You're right Noch, we play most of our casual games as best ball, but usually do finish out the hole, even if we're basically out of it. Still trying to make the best score possible. This one was a bit different. Because it was tournament play in order to keep things moving we did actually pick up and not finish some holes. I know there are guidelines for this in regards to what score you post, so that in and of itself shouldn't make it non postable. But my main concern is when you combine that with the mulligan. And this wasn't the "breakfast ball" mulligan but a do over for any shot you took. And combined with L,C,&P, which I know is allowable, not just in closely mown areas, but anywhere on the course, it just doesn't seem to me to be a good postable score. Especially a tournament score.

 

I kind of loosely figured the score he posted for me was probably about four strokes better than my actual round.

 

Oh ok. Yeah, that's a tough one. Definitely not a T score and I would challenge that. No way that can be justified by the guy who posted it.

 

[crich88848]

Even without mulligans, how can a two man best ball score be posted?

 

Isn't the format one score for two guys?

 

If so, who's name/number does it get posted under? Yours, or your partners?

 

Point: If you're in the bunker in 3, your partner is in the hole in 3, you pick up, right? What score do you post?

 

 

 

::confused::

 

In my club, every man still keeps his individual score for each hole in a best ball tournament. The "Official scorecard" also has everyone's individual scores listed. At the end you have your individual score and then your "team" score. Our tournament director posts the individual scores to the handicap system. Although, in our club all best ball tournaments are played to the RoG.

[Sawgrass]

Thanks guys. It's pretty much in line with what I was thinking, but just wanted some other opinions. They're already on there, posted as T scores, so not much to do now but complain!��

 

In all seriousness, I would complain -- to my handicap chair, who has the capacity to delete the round from your scoring record.

 

This tournament wasn't played at our home course. Does our course handicap committee have any leeway.

 

I have had errors in the past when I posted a T score that the pro subsequently posted as well (double post), as well as making an error by posting a "T" on my score when I later learned that the tournament was not a T-worthy tournament. My handicap Chair was able to fix these problems, but in both cases my errors were for play at my home course. I presume the access they have would work for away scores/tournament scores as well, but I don't know that for a fact. (It would seem very odd to me if they couldn't fix it.)

[Sawgrass]

Even without mulligans, how can a two man best ball score be posted?

 

Isn't the format one score for two guys?

 

If so, who's name/number does it get posted under? Yours, or your partners?

 

Point: If you're in the bunker in 3, your partner is in the hole in 3, you pick up, right? What score do you post?

 

::confused::

 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but best ball scores get posted a clubs across the country every day. The majority of games played are best ball. I've played a lot of best ball matches and end up finishing the hole. ESC comes into play on holes where someone is really out of it. Otherwise, in our matches, everyone is playing the hole. Sure, there are putts given. But that's match play. You can eliminate match play, or ask people not to post match play scores. But then you'd have people go an entire season without posting.

 

. . . And combined with L,C,&P, which I know is allowable, not just in closely mown areas, but anywhere on the course, it just doesn't seem to me to be a good postable score. Especially a tournament score.

 

 

For the record, Appendix I tells us that LCP is acceptable in closely mown areas and LCR is acceptable anywhere through the green.

[deadsolid...shank]

Even without mulligans, how can a two man best ball score be posted?

 

Isn't the format one score for two guys?

 

If so, who's name/number does it get posted under? Yours, or your partners?

 

Point: If you're in the bunker in 3, your partner is in the hole in 3, you pick up, right? What score do you post?

 

::confused::

 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but best ball scores get posted a clubs across the country every day. The majority of games played are best ball. I've played a lot of best ball matches and end up finishing the hole. ESC comes into play on holes where someone is really out of it. Otherwise, in our matches, everyone is playing the hole. Sure, there are putts given. But that's match play. You can eliminate match play, or ask people not to post match play scores. But then you'd have people go an entire season without posting.

 

. . . And combined with L,C,&P, which I know is allowable, not just in closely mown areas, but anywhere on the course, it just doesn't seem to me to be a good postable score. Especially a tournament score.

 

 

For the record, Appendix I tells us that LCP is acceptable in closely mown areas and LCR is acceptable anywhere through the green.

 

I worded that poorly Sawgrass. And what is LCR?

[sui generis]

LCR = lift, clean and replace.

[Sawgrass]

Even without mulligans, how can a two man best ball score be posted?

 

Isn't the format one score for two guys?

 

If so, who's name/number does it get posted under? Yours, or your partners?

 

Point: If you're in the bunker in 3, your partner is in the hole in 3, you pick up, right? What score do you post?

 

::confused::

 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but best ball scores get posted a clubs across the country every day. The majority of games played are best ball. I've played a lot of best ball matches and end up finishing the hole. ESC comes into play on holes where someone is really out of it. Otherwise, in our matches, everyone is playing the hole. Sure, there are putts given. But that's match play. You can eliminate match play, or ask people not to post match play scores. But then you'd have people go an entire season without posting.

 

. . . And combined with L,C,&P, which I know is allowable, not just in closely mown areas, but anywhere on the course, it just doesn't seem to me to be a good postable score. Especially a tournament score.

 

 

For the record, Appendix I tells us that LCP is acceptable in closely mown areas and LCR is acceptable anywhere through the green.

 

I worded that poorly Sawgrass. And what is LCR?

 

As Sui says.

 

See Appendix I "Cleanning Ball" Local Rule right after Prefered Lies.

[Augster]

So some folks, it seems, haven't been posting their best ball scores. There's a word for that.

 

Please take a look through the handicap manual to brush up on what scores are valid to post and which aren't.

 

BTW, the handicap system was built for match play, knowing full well players would be picking up when out of holes or when shots are conceded.

[bk52]

So some folks, it seems, haven't been posting their best ball scores. There's a word for that.

 

Can we assume the "word" is uninformed or unaware?