Passing the PGA PAT

[Mulligan26]

You will get next time. Don't worry, the national average is 5 times. Keep on practicing and now you can get started with Q-Level since you were inside Acceptable Progress.

 

I just need to schedule my Q level testing; we've been busy with Member-guest and club championship so time off is only for a PAT. Anything else and 1 day a week is the norm.

 

Thanks for the support guys, right now the PAT is my white whale. Being a golf pro is who I am. Just need to prove I can actually play; my swing wasnt there today.

[Bob Cat]

OP, hope you're well. Interested to hear where you're at in this process.

Someone close to me is also going through the program at this time.

[Matt J]

Interesting this got bumped, and I saw a lot of PAT threads but not this one last summer...

 

A few thoughts.

 

I'm not in the golf industry but worked in tourism most of my adult life, some of it high-end like ski patrol and ski instructor that is similar in many ways.

 

I really like the concept of the PAT. I wish a lot of other industries had a "rubber meets the road" experience like the PAT. It's not as much about weeding out those without ability, but it's a right of passage and something to be proud of when you pass. Every guy who wears the pga pin has shot a respectable number at least for 36 holes at least once in his life. I think that's very cool. And I think nearly 99% of apprentices could accomplish it with the right coaching.

 

The closest thing I did to this is taking the certification classes to teach whitewater kayaking in New Zealand. You don't need the best kayakers in the world to be instructors i.e. touring pros, but you also don't want a guy or gal that can barely roll a kayak and has sloppy strokes out there setting an example for your industry.

 

I have a friend who has failed twice, but just like the OP I think it's lack of tournament experience. We are similar ability level and I know I'd struggle at the moment to pass it. I could do it but I would really need to play well. Two rounds under eighty would be a solid day for me depending on the layout.

 

So, to the OP, don't give up. Just remember that the harder the journey the greater the accomplishment. You'll wear the PGA pin with more pride than anyone and don't let the PAT tour b.s. get to you either. So what? You're spending a little money and getting to play 36 under tourney conditions, a lot of us do that 4 or 5 times a summer for fun. Also, it encourages your organization to give you more opportunities to practice and play to get ready. I think it's great to emphasize the game in an industry that is quickly becoming all about business.

 

Every time you try you should be learning something and getting closer. Go ahead and pre-register for two this year. Seek out the easiest course rating. Try and plan for a little later in the season insure better weather.

 

My mate played his first PAT at our home course and everyone thought it would be easy for him, but we had bad weather and no one passed. Kinda lame IMO. They should send a threesome of tournament scratch players out in the pairings and adjust the number but that's a different topic. Anyways, best of luck to the OP. We're rooting for you! The industry needs passion, not just the most skilled players. Just like you said our best local club pro just went to selling cars. He had no problem with the PAT, but that's not what it's about.

[rangersgoalie]

PGA members should have to pass the PAT every 3-5 years

[Matt J]

PGA members should have to pass the PAT every 3-5 years

 

I like the way you think.

 

Firefighters and active duty military have to pass fitness tests. Isn't the PAT a golf fitness test?

[isaacbm]

PGA members should have to pass the PAT every 3-5 years

 

Actually interested on your take on this one! Why do you think that? Not agreeing or disagreeing, just seems like you feel pretty strongly about this one??

[PowderedToastMan]

PGA members should have to pass the PAT every 3-5 years

 

Actually interested on your take on this one! Why do you think that? Not agreeing or disagreeing, just seems like you feel pretty strongly about this one??

If this happened, I have a feeling a lot of current PGA members would suddenly get crippling injuries that would exempt them from playing.

[rangersgoalie]

Professional Golfers Association

 

Pretty simple to me, should be able to play at a representative level.

Should be able to teach, all levels of golfers

And should have a great understanding of tournament organization, and equipment.

 

Certainly should be able to manage people and business well, but managers with some knowledge of golf

Can do that as well.

A golf professional should be a solid representative of the GAME of golf to be a PGA member, but I believe

The organization is too busy getting as many members to pay dues as possible rather than striving for the best representatives of the game

Plenty of great PGA members by the way, and I understand the PAT can get in people's heads, it's an important part of a professionals advancement. But it's interesting with all the continuing education requirements, that playing isn't exactly any priority! Seminars that you pay for, or events that make the PGA money are readily available though!

[Matt J]

Would probably make wages go up too as there would be less supply. Would certainly add prestige to the "brand" of teaching pro.

[TheFatTick]

Of all the things our PGA pros do for me as a member of a club, shooting a 75 is pretty far down the list.

 

They can all play. And I respect that. But it's not what makes our course wonderful to play, it's not why the pro shop runs efficiently, it's not why our events are well run and fun for members. It's not even why our teaching pros are good at teaching.

 

I get the idea of having a certain proficiency to be able to call yourself a member of a professional organization. But I expect we would have a lot of amateur golfers disgruntled or downright hostile towards the PGA if every three years the most important thing in the lives of our pros was posting their own good score on a particular weekend to keep their career alive.

 

I want my pro working on my game, not on his. It's why I so respect him or her being at the course at 6am t 6pm six days a week, working with the grounds crew, having the pro shop stocked, my clubs stored, the carts charged, the tee times organized, the range clean and stocked with balls, lessons available from someone who communicates effectively, and the dozens of other mission critical things PGA pros do every day.

 

I can find great golfers every weekend on television. It bothers me not at all that the the PGA pros at our facility probably wouldn't win the club championship.

[rangersgoalie]

Of all the things our PGA pros do for me as a member of a club, shooting a 75 is pretty far down the list.

 

They can all play. And I respect that. But it's not what makes our course wonderful to play, it's not why the pro shop runs efficiently, it's not why our events are well run and fun for members. It's not even why our teaching pros are good at teaching.

 

I get the idea of having a certain proficiency to be able to call yourself a member of a professional organization. But I expect we would have a lot of amateur golfers disgruntled or downright hostile towards the PGA if every three years the most important thing in the lives of our pros was posting their own good score on a particular weekend to keep their career alive.

 

I want my pro working on my game, not on his. It's why I so respect him or her being at the course at 6am t 6pm six days a week, working with the grounds crew, having the pro shop stocked, my clubs stored, the carts charged, the tee times organized, the range clean and stocked with balls, lessons available from someone who communicates effectively, and the dozens of other mission critical things PGA pros do every day.

 

I can find great golfers every weekend on television. It bothers me not at all that the the PGA pros at our facility probably wouldn't win the club championship.

 

If they're only focusing on that one time every 3 or so years to be able to shoot, what is a pretty accessible target score, maybe they don't really need to be a member of the P Golfers A?

You do not need to be a proficient golfer to:work with grounds crew, stock a pro shop, keep a bag room clean and organized, pick the range.

You should reasonably understand how to play the game in order to give lessons, I believe. The PAT doesn't exactly set the bar to an extreme BTW.

In this day and age, I am certainly being extreme, but doing so on purpose.

You certainly do NOT need to be a great player to run a fantastic golf operation. I just believe that to become a Class A member of the PGA, the game should be a part of it. I preferred the old classification system before it became

Class A 1-24. It used to mean something to be a class A PGA member, now the classifications are more like the everyone gets a trophy mentality.

Maybe an A 1 should be a member who has qualified and excelled in ALL areas of the profession? Runs great operations, teaches well,,develops his apprentices into head professional candidates, and makes certain all the tasks you mentioned that are important are well done, but can also, you know compete respectively in section (and God Forbid national) events?

Maybe and A2 is the guy who doesn't care about playing or teaching, but otherwise is a great guy for the club?

We can sort out the guys in the next 23 levels as we go!

[Jagpilotohio]

Ah, the PAT. Bringing back memories.

 

I passed on the first time back in '95, but boy does it mess with your head.

 

I was scratch back then and I deliberately took it on a course I'd played many times and shot in the 60's dozens of times.

 

Narrow course. Houses and OB on both sides of the first fairway. I Step up to the first tee, nervous but confident, and promptly hit a massive pull hook over the houses and into the street!! Hahahahaha!! Oh damn. So funny now but I almost threw up.

 

I doubled the first hole. What a start to 36 very important holes of golf!! I managed to settle down and ended up passing by one shot. The last few holes coming down the stretch with no shots to give was the epitome of stress.

 

It's amazing how tough it was to shoot mid 70's twice on a course I could play blindfolded. I think only 6 of us passed that day out of About 30 playing. As I recall massive amounts of alcohol was consumed afterwards.

[zdubbsgolf]

I passed it on my first try! I was pretty fortunate to have that happen. It was set up definitely from what I've heard. We didn't have any of the flags in the middle of the green (front, middle, back) and we played from the blues. Was really confused, but I'm glad I passed

[Soloman1]

That's very strange. What section was it?

[iteachgolf]

That's very strange. What section was it?

 

I don't think it's strange. The one here is played from 6700 with flags front middle and back.

[ferrispgm]

Not a bad idea on passing every 3 to 5 years. The issue is that not everyone gets to work at a club that allows them to practice or play. I got stuck working open to close everyday and got to play once a month. Got stuck at two different clubs with the same story. Needless to say, I got out of the industry.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

Of all the things our PGA pros do for me as a member of a club, shooting a 75 is pretty far down the list.

 

They can all play. And I respect that. But it's not what makes our course wonderful to play, it's not why the pro shop runs efficiently, it's not why our events are well run and fun for members. It's not even why our teaching pros are good at teaching.

 

I get the idea of having a certain proficiency to be able to call yourself a member of a professional organization. But I expect we would have a lot of amateur golfers disgruntled or downright hostile towards the PGA if every three years the most important thing in the lives of our pros was posting their own good score on a particular weekend to keep their career alive.

 

I want my pro working on my game, not on his. It's why I so respect him or her being at the course at 6am t 6pm six days a week, working with the grounds crew, having the pro shop stocked, my clubs stored, the carts charged, the tee times organized, the range clean and stocked with balls, lessons available from someone who communicates effectively, and the dozens of other mission critical things PGA pros do every day.

 

I can find great golfers every weekend on television. It bothers me not at all that the the PGA pros at our facility probably wouldn't win the club championship.

 

If they're only focusing on that one time every 3 or so years to be able to shoot, what is a pretty accessible target score, maybe they don't really need to be a member of the P Golfers A?

You do not need to be a proficient golfer to:work with grounds crew, stock a pro shop, keep a bag room clean and organized, pick the range.

You should reasonably understand how to play the game in order to give lessons, I believe. The PAT doesn't exactly set the bar to an extreme BTW.

In this day and age, I am certainly being extreme, but doing so on purpose.

You certainly do NOT need to be a great player to run a fantastic golf operation. I just believe that to become a Class A member of the PGA, the game should be a part of it. I preferred the old classification system before it became

Class A 1-24. It used to mean something to be a class A PGA member, now the classifications are more like the everyone gets a trophy mentality.

Maybe an A 1 should be a member who has qualified and excelled in ALL areas of the profession? Runs great operations, teaches well,,develops his apprentices into head professional candidates, and makes certain all the tasks you mentioned that are important are well done, but can also, you know compete respectively in section (and God Forbid national) events?

Maybe and A2 is the guy who doesn't care about playing or teaching, but otherwise is a great guy for the club?

We can sort out the guys in the next 23 levels as we go!

You actually don't need to play golf at all to be proficient at running a golf operations facility as evidenced by city of San Diego-owned courses. Not one of the 3 facilities is run by PGA professionals but rather city employees/ managers in the parks and recs division. Same scenario applies to a few other public courses here as well. The teaching pros are mainly PGA members, but independent contractors. You could argue that a facility like Torrey is actually more proficient at running golf operations with its city employees who are non-PGA affiliated.

 

The private 'club' experience is different altogether in that there's pride involved and having a reputable pro with good PR skills with the membership goes along way. But from where I'm sitting out here, the majority of golf is played at public access courses where the primary concerns are : greens fees, pace of play, and course conditions.

 

 

[PGAGUY85]

It all matters on what position and also what type of facility you work at. Some CC's want their Pro's to play golf with them quite a bit, and therefore that Pro should be able to work on their games and keep that up. There are some Clubs that want the Pro to be efficient at running the operation, which includes: merchandising, tournament operations, financials, budgets, talking with members, employee coaching, etc...

 

A pro can play with members if they really want that. One person can't solve issues if he is out playing 18 holes every other day imo.

 

It comes down to what your membership and/or owners really want from you. I have been in the position of being available at the Pro Shop and running a good operation day-in and day-out. That is what my membership wants me to do. Most of them want to see me there and not on the course.

 

I also have worked for Pro's that all they were doing was playing golf. That is okay if that is what your boss wants, but they better make sure they have a good staff in place.

[Matt J]

I've never seen a Class A that plays too much. I have seen Class A's that don't play at all. I think most of them can still break 80 from the member's tees, but that's a pretty low standard.

 

One thing I've never understood is how the day an apprentice enters the program he can hang a shingle and give a lesson. I see several that have never passed the PAT out teaching juniors and occasionally giving an adult lesson. I agree that the PAT is a good thing, but it amazes me more that there isn't a more comprehensive instructor's course that is mandatory at a PGA facility. No telling how many newbs lose the golf bug after getting a horrendous lesson from a kid in his first season in the program.

 

Anyways, haven't meant to jack the OP's thread and hope he comes back in to give us some good news about his plans to annihilate the number this year!

[jslane57]

It's a shame where this thread has gone. The PAT is good where it is. It requires a reasonable ability to pass. The best players pass without any trouble, on the fence guys can get it done. As far as teaching goes, this idea that you can teach someone to be a great teacher is absurd. There will be great teachers, and not so great teachers. And young excited teachers who know not much yet generally get kids excited and do far more good than bad. Many years ago (when I was new) I would help teach jr. camps with one of the best and most respected teachers (who did play on the PGA tour) and he would laugh about how the kids wanted the young teachers working with them, not the old guys who knew golf. Energy matters. On to running corporate outings. PGA members do this. On to stocking pro-shops. PGA members do this. On to working with members. PGA members do this. On to what else? Everything else. PGA members do this. If there is a mistake made by the PGA, it is not advertising to Joe Golfer what the PGA member does, is, and can do. Anyhow, I passed the PAT first try many years ago, but to say I was a better PGA member than those who didn't is absurd. And to say someone who beat me by 5 strokes was a better PGA member is just as ridiculous. All you PGA members, congratulations! Keep on doing your best and having fun at one of the coolest jobs a person can hold!

[rangersgoalie]

I've never seen a Class A that plays too much. I have seen Class A's that don't play at all. I think most of them can still break 80 from the member's tees, but that's a pretty low standard.

 

One thing I've never understood is how the day an apprentice enters the program he can hang a shingle and give a lesson. I see several that have never passed the PAT out teaching juniors and occasionally giving an adult lesson. I agree that the PAT is a good thing, but it amazes me more that there isn't a more comprehensive instructor's course that is mandatory at a PGA facility. No telling how many newbs lose the golf bug after getting a horrendous lesson from a kid in his first season in the program.

 

Anyways, haven't meant to jack the OP's thread and hope he comes back in to give us some good news about his plans to annihilate the number this year!

 

Matt,

You're right. I answered a question about a simple comment, and helped derail this....

Sorry guys.....

[Matt J]

It's an interesting topic and you have an interesting perspective considering your heritage and occupational choices. It's a discussion I'd love to have, and it's cool to see some different opinions from some other members that I respect, too.

 

But, there's gotta be some kind of self-monitoring or you can't blame the mods for getting a little heavy handed. So, if someone wants to start a PGA / PAT thread I'm all about it, but until then let's hope the OP comes back to the party. And even better, let's hope he passes the PAT and becomes a great leader in the industry.

[rangersgoalie]

It's an interesting topic and you have an interesting perspective considering your heritage and occupational choices. It's a discussion I'd love to have, and it's cool to see some different opinions from some other members that I respect, too.

 

But, there's gotta be some kind of self-monitoring or you can't blame the mods for getting a little heavy handed. So, if someone wants to start a PGA / PAT thread I'm all about it, but until then let's hope the OP comes back to the party. And even better, let's hope he passes the PAT and becomes a great leader in the industry.

 

Agreed.

 

[Santiago Golf]

That's very strange. What section was it?

 

I don't think it's strange. The one here is played from 6700 with flags front middle and back.

 

I have friend who passed his at Firestone and they played long, not 7000 but 6800-6700 and pins were in some tough locations. It rained that day too! He had to shoot 78-79 and i think he shot two 75s.

[mikpga]

Although I believe there's some merit in the concept of the PAT, I much rather have potential members pass some form of Teaching Evaluation moreso than playing...

[Chazb]

I know people who wait to do the pat on a easier golf course which helps.I remember years ago a person I knew was on the course doing his pat and died on the course.

It was really sad.

[Dan Drake]

I was fortunate to pass on my first attempt a few years ago. I made it inside the number by one shot. I made the "qualifying score" my first round target. If I hit that, then I would simply play the 2nd 18 by correcting the mistakes from the first 18, which I did, for the most part. If I hadn't hit the Q number in the first round, then that would have then become my goal in the 2nd, again, by trying to eliminate the big mistakes from the first round.

 

I shot even par from holes 19-28 or so and then realized I could bogey in and make it on the number. So, as anyone would do, I started making bogies quickly and in succession. Luckily, I pulled myself up outta my funk on #35 and got up and down to give myself a cushion playing the 36th, an easy par 5.

 

It was a very cool day. My dad walked with me for all but the 3rd 9 holes, ironically the holes that I played really well. We went and played a practice round, I did some research on which venues had good passing rates, I Google Earthed the course to get an idea when to hit driver and when not to. Oh, and I found a course that didn't have much water, that was important, more for my mindset than anything else. There was plenty of pucker factor, no need to add more.

 

Good luck to the OP. It will happen, just put in the work.

[Mulligan26]

Wow, once the season ended I forgot about this thread. Well to give a quick update, I played in one at the very end of our season. I didn't pass and frankly I didn't care. I HATED the golf course in the practice round and I was tired mentally from a long season of work. A 75 in the practice round had me feeling good, but on game day I went 80-80 to miss by 3.

 

I had a performance review with my boss (also one of my closest friends) a few weeks after it and he assured me that I'm doing a great job, relax, no one is judging me for not passing, and having not passed isnt going to effect my employment. All in all it was a great season both running our facility and playing. In the gym during the off season and I worked out a deal with the heated range for free range balls.

 

All that being said, I sent my apprentice application (and the 900 dollar check?) Thursday. I'm going to pass the PAT, it's just a matter of time.

[Rookie1422]

I passed on my second attempt. Play to par, hit it down the middle and middle of the green. Don't go after anything andppay to eliminate doubles or worse.

[Bob Cat]

Wow, once the season ended I forgot about this thread. Well to give a quick update, I played in one at the very end of our season. I didn't pass and frankly I didn't care. I HATED the golf course in the practice round and I was tired mentally from a long season of work. A 75 in the practice round had me feeling good, but on game day I went 80-80 to miss by 3.

 

I had a performance review with my boss (also one of my closest friends) a few weeks after it and he assured me that I'm doing a great job, relax, no one is judging me for not passing, and having not passed isnt going to effect my employment. All in all it was a great season both running our facility and playing. In the gym during the off season and I worked out a deal with the heated range for free range balls.

 

All that being said, I sent my apprentice application (and the 900 dollar check) Thursday. I'm going to pass the PAT, it's just a matter of time.

 

I like your attitude, M26. Attitude is altitude! You're gonna make it. I can tell.

 

What does the $900 cover? Do you find the PGA apprentice path to be as confusing as I do?