Ben Hogan 'Redlines' - what do I have on my hands?

[PeanutsDaddy]

Hello ladies and gents. I've stumbled into a set of what I believe to be 1988 Ben Hogan 'Redlines'. The set was missing an 8 iron and E wedge, but two additional heads were discovered in a milk crate at the back of a golf shop (along with a full set of 1999 Apex blades that I will picture below).

 

Here are a few question that I'm hoping to have answered:

 

1) Do I have a set of 1988 Hogan 'Redlines'?

 

2) What heads are the 8 iron and E wedge? They are the same shape as the Hogan set, but they have gold paint-fill in their 'lines', are lacking pins in the hosels and do not have knurled hosels.

 

3) I'd like to have the 1999 Apex blades refinished (I'm leaning toward stripping the chrome and leaving them raw). Do the grooves still look serviceable?

 

4) I'm probably going to re-shaft the 'Redlines'. I've read numerous threads on the topic. Is this a task best left to a professional? I'd like to preserve the original shafts and don't want to ruin the heads.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I apologize for the substandard photographs. They do not do these beauties the justice they deserve.

[Fellaheen51]

#3. Yes. Can always touch them up some with a groove tool. If going raw, can also clean up the dings a bit with a ball pean hammer and files. Judiciously of course.

 

#4. A thread about reshafting Hogans. Including pin removal. Time to learn how to deal with bloody pins. There's another thread around here (IIRC) on pins that I can find at the moment. Birly, help please.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...t-alternatives/

[PeanutsDaddy]

Thank you for responding Fella. I'm thinking of having Continental apply the same raw satin finish as these VIPs. I wasn't sure about the grooves as I've never dealt with browning.

 

Thank you for the thread link. I've read threads about the process, but not that particular thread.

 

I need to lose myself in the classics section.

 

 

[birly-shirly]

More Hogan shaftology and pin shenanigans here - http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/552709-ben-hogan-1988-redline-vs-1999-apex-blade/page__st__120__p__13570508?do=findComment&comment=13570508

 

I don't know what the deal is with the gold paint fill iron heads, unless they've been renovated and the pin hole welded shut. Pin removal on the others should be ok - redlines were the first set I did myself and they went fine.

 

As for the '99s still being serviceable, I'd say hell yes.

[teevons]

I know that Canada sold different versions of Hogan clubs,the gold fill might have been a Canadian version

[PeanutsDaddy]

I know that Canada sold different versions of Hogan clubs,the gold fill might have been a Canadian version

 

Wouldn't surprise me. We Canadians can be goofy.

 

Thank you for the contribution Teevons. In all the threads I've lurked I've been so impressed with your knowledge.

 

Either way they are going to mesh into one set.

 

I'm trying to figure out what to do with my shaft situation. I have a Hogan PC 8 iron which is currently filling the spot of the missing head, but it has an Apex 4 Extra installed (while all the others are standard Apex 4s). I'm thinking of pulling the shaft and installing it straight into the pitching wedge and searching for another 8 iron set to match. Another option is to find a set of Hogan 4s and fill in from there. Lastly, I could pull all of the heads and reshaft with a set of my preference.

 

I ordered ferrules so I can choose any route

[PeanutsDaddy]

I thought about a fourth option while on the course tonight testing out the Apex Redline 9 iron.

 

I'm going to soft step the 9 iron shaft into the E wedge and then soft step the 7 iron shaft into the 9 iron and fill the set from there. I was surprised at how lively the shaft felt in the head.

 

For all of the Redline lovers out there I have to confess that I was blown away by the performance of this head/shaft combination.

 

I'll take birly-shirly's advice and begin the task of pulling the pins tomorrow. We'll see how this all goes.

[PeanutsDaddy]

The good . . .

 

 

 

Pins are out.

 

 

 

The bad . . .

 

I slightly bent 1/2 the shafts near the tips getting them out.

 

So . . .

 

Do I clamp the shaft and try to bend manually?

Do I install shafts and bend loft and lie from there?

Do I start looking for new shafts?

 

Grrrr

 

Never friggin easy.

 

Ps -

 

Never seen white and orange epoxy, especially 2 inches up each shaft.

 

 

 

[Fellaheen51]

PD - How "slightly bent" and close to the tip are you talking about? A pic next to a reference straight edge would be helpful for assessment.

[PeanutsDaddy]

Here they are Fella. I thought only a few were bent, but they all show a bit of curvature. The three iron shaft is the worst. It is the tip you see close up.

 

 

 

 

I'll tell you, if these aren't salvageable I'm having every hosel reamed.

[birly-shirly]

I don't want to be a smartarse, but those were either bent by the previous owner or you're doing something very strange in removing them. No way all those shafts should get like that being pulled, pins or no pins. If I had to guess, I'd say they were probably bent already, since I can't imagine how that would happen in the workshop whereas I have some idea of how it could happen on the course...☺

 

I'd say those can all be straightened, but I'd think you'll need to glue them into the heads to do so.

[Fellaheen51]

Concur with Birly's assessment, those shafts were probably bent beforehand. I know that this is not your first rodeo with club tinkering, so doubt you caused this situation. But they can be straighten, it's done all the time in the auto repair/restoration field.

 

Had a bent putter shaft once. Gave it to a buddy that's in the prototype field and he straightened it out using a Tube Brake. Know you're a teacher. Do you have access to the school's metal shop equipment? Perhaps they may have a brake that you could use. Something like this may be used as well, although no experience with one:

 

https://www.summitra...CFUQ9gQodB2ABeA

 

If DIY, I wouldn't install in the head. Need to be able to check and measure your progress against a straight edge. If you have a sturdy vice, you may be able to bend with judicious application of force. Perhaps heating up the shaft to facilitate. Depending on the length of the jaws in the vice, may be able to get them straight by simply tighten up the vice. Bend, check, adjust, repeat. My bench vise has shaft clamps (all metal) that are 3" in length. I would certainly practice on a spare shaft first. To get my technique down.

 

The question then becomes, how much is this going to mess with your head. Knowing they were bent and if for some reason you can't get them back to ruler straight. Is it going to unduly influence your swing thoughts when using the club(s)? If the anser is maybe, then I wouldn't go thru the exercise and just install another set and move on.

 

At lastly, not sure if the reaming comment was tongue in cheek or you're contemplating. Nothing inherently wrong with reaming. But of the opinion that heads designed as .355 should remain as intended. Especially so, if at a later point in time, you decide to sell them for some reason. If bored, that would need to be disclosed in a listing. Because, that's how we do things. I certainly would have pause considering any irons that have had the hosel bored out, the quality of the ream under suspicion. Just say'n.

 

Keep us updated on your progress. Inquiring minds.......

[Davewn]

Based on your photos, the shafts don't look kinked, so you should be able to bend them back (relatively) straight. Agree with Fellaheen that the way to go is bending with the shafts pulled. I found an alloy shaft clamp very helpful as you can precisely clamp the shaft at the point of the bend without the risk of crushing the tip in the jaws of the vise. Rubber clamps deform too much. Bend, unclamp, roll the shaft on a countertop, and when the tip finally quits wobbling you're good to go. I use a 12" length of 1 1/4" pvc drain pipe (that I cut as a sheath for blowing off grips) slipped over the shaft to do the bending. It can be tedious, but I've found it an effective technique. Good luck!

[TimV]

I'd replace them. Good shafts here in R or S at $10/per...

http://www.diamondtour.com/golf-components/club-shafts/true-temper/true-temper-tt-lite-xl-taper-tip-iron-single-shaft-1.html

[PeanutsDaddy]

Thank you for the comments and suggestions gentlemen. After some research and a few discussions I'm also of the mindset that I didn't bend the shafts in pulling the pins, but inherited a set of slightly bent shafts. Dave is correct in that there are no kinks, but rather slight bows in the tips of the shafts.

 

I sent a message to Justin at Continental Golf, including the same pictures I did here, and his response was interesting. He stated that Continental used to be an authorized repair center for Hogan and that they were fixed sets weekly as the shafts would bend so easily. I've asked his opinion on a course of action and will report back with his thoughts.

 

I'm leaning toward a re-shaft, as I'm particular about my builds, and will only re-install if I can be certain the shafts are straight. I'm going to see if I can straighten the 3 iron shaft given the instructions provided (as it's the worst) and go from there.

 

I like Tim's suggestion of the TT Lite shafts and remember reading that they are a similar profile, but will have to look to a different supplier as Diamond golf wants $64 USD to ship a single shaft and that isn't going to work.

 

Maybe a stupid question but is there a reason why I can't/shouldn't re-install the shafts and have them bent in the hosels with a loft/lie machine?

[PeanutsDaddy]

Fella,

 

I mentioned reaming as an option as I have two sets of .370 shafts in my garage (1 graphite and 1 steel) that are prepped and ready to go. The Continental crew can ream the heads for $8 a piece. The cost would be cheaper to ream and re-shaft with what I own than to purchase a new set of shafts. I'm already sending the Apex blades for a 'face lift' so I could save on shipping costs by placing them in the same box.

[Fellaheen51]

Fella,

 

I mentioned reaming as an option as I have two sets of .370 shafts in my garage (1 graphite and 1 steel) that are prepped and ready to go. The Continental crew can ream the heads for $8 a piece. The cost would be cheaper to ream and re-shaft with what I own than to purchase a new set of shafts. I'm already sending the Apex blades for a 'face lift' so I could save on shipping costs by placing them in the same box.

 

Understand completely PD. Faced the same dilemma when I overhauled the Apex II's over the winter. They had several different shafts installed, so no attempt was made to salvage. After contemplation on a shaft direction, decided to use what was on hand. A set of FCM Rifle 5.5's. That I thought were .355, only to discover when beginning the build that they were .370 (didn't think to gauge, assuming). Was reluctant to spend another $100 on shafts for a set of irons that would be more of a "novelty" than regular players.

 

Decided to ream out the hosels. Had the appropriate reamer, did it by hand using the vise and cordless drill. Carefully, slowly, a spritz of WD-40 to facilitate, using the bore as my guide. One is only dealing with the last 1/2" or so at the bottom of the bore. Checked my depth progress as I proceeded, all came out just fine. Not how a pro builder would do it, but a DIY'er has to improvise based on the tools on hand. Installed the shafts, all was good to go, would never know by looking at them.

 

Like we've discussed before, once deviating from a "authenticity" refurbishment, make them as playable as possible. That means appropriate shafts per one's preference. "Modernized" if you will. I do not particularly like the Apex 4 shafts in my Redlines. To much for me these days. A set of AXE graphites may look real nice in them, with their minimalist head design. Aesthetically speaking. Have to look good to play good!

 

FYI. The steel shaft often cited as most comparable to the Apex is the TT Dynalite. Seem to remember reading that the weight and step pattern were nearly identical. But that's only working off the assumption that one likes how the Apex feels and performs. And one would like to replicate both with a replacement shaft.

[Davewn]

Thank you for the comments and suggestions gentlemen. After some research and a few discussions I'm also of the mindset that I didn't bend the shafts in pulling the pins, but inherited a set of slightly bent shafts. Dave is correct in that there are no kinds, but rather slight bows in the tips of the shafts.

 

I sent a message to Justin at Continental Golf, including the same pictures I did here, and his response was interesting. He stated that Continental used to be an authorized repair center for Hogan and that they were fixed sets weekly as the shafts would bend so easily. I've asked his opinion on a course of action and will report back with his thoughts.

 

I'm leaning toward a re-shaft, as I'm particular about my builds, and will only re-install if I can be certain the shafts are straight. I'm going to see if I can straighten the 3 iron shaft given the instructions provided (as it's the worst) and go from there.

 

I like Tim's suggestion of the TT Lite shafts and remember reading that they are a similar profile, but will have to look to a different supplier as Diamond golf wants $64 USD to ship a single shaft and that isn't going to work.

 

Maybe a stupid question but is there a reason why I can't/shouldn't re-install the shafts and have them bent in the hosels with a loft/lie machine?

 

I'm a bit confused as to what this bending method would entail. If you're thinking about using the loft/lie machine's bending bar to straighten just the shaft, you'd have to contend with the ferrule. It would be pretty aggravating to crack or scar the ferrule after you took the trouble to pull the heads in the first place. Should you plan on manipulating the hosel to compensate for the bent shafts, you could end up looking down at something pretty strange looking at address, IMO.

[PeanutsDaddy]

Dave, I was thinking of the latter but can now envision what you mean. I'd bend the hosel but the shaft would still be cOckeyed.

 

I was having a brain fart.

[TimV]

PD, If you like the TT Lite shafts from Diamond Tour I order from them somewhat regularly. I'm sure I can ship a set to you a lot cheaper than that.

[PeanutsDaddy]

I've never put the TT's into play Tim. I correct in assuming that they have a similar profile to the Apex 4's?

 

Also, I do appreciate the offer.

[Hawkeye77]

Thank you for responding Fella. I'm thinking of having Continental apply the same raw satin finish as these VIPs. I wasn't sure about the grooves as I've never dealt with browning.

 

Thank you for the thread link. I've read threads about the process, but not that particular thread.

 

I need to lose myself in the classics section.

 

 

 

OMG! Heck with the Hogans, that looks magical.

[PeanutsDaddy]

These are the magical VIPs Hawkeye. Custom ground from VIP blanks by A WRX member.

 

Because they don't bear any company markings I can transfer them between sets.

 

Best wedges I've ever put in play.

 

Raw Canadian bad arse goodness.

 

 

 

 

I took the Macs out this morning and they looked far more handsome than my swing at times.

[Hawkeye77]

These are the magical VIPs Hawkeye. Custom ground from VIP blanks by A WRX member.

 

Because they don't bear any company markings I can transfer them between sets.

 

Best wedges I've ever put in play.

 

Raw Canadian bad arse goodness.

 

 

 

 

I took the Macs out this morning and they looked far more handsome than my swing at times.

 

Incredible.

 

Watching The Open, saw this thread. Never bought old clubs (wish I still had my Nicklaus irons I got from Austads in high school and Wilson Staffs my dad gave me after getting my first college diploma). Will never miss the Ping Eye 2s.

 

Like my mom watching QVC, just bought a set of Muirfield 20th Anniversary Nicklaus autographs. I blame you, I celebrate you.

 

Now to ponder what to do with them when they come. The finish on your VIPs is amazing.

[PeanutsDaddy]

These are the magical VIPs Hawkeye. Custom ground from VIP blanks by A WRX member.

 

Because they don't bear any company markings I can transfer them between sets.

 

Best wedges I've ever put in play.

 

Raw Canadian bad arse goodness.

 

 

 

 

I took the Macs out this morning and they looked far more handsome than my swing at times.

 

Incredible.

 

Watching The Open, saw this thread. Never bought old clubs (wish I still had my Nicklaus irons I got from Austads in high school and Wilson Staffs my dad gave me after getting my first college diploma). Will never miss the Ping Eye 2s.

 

Like my mom watching QVC, just bought a set of Muirfield 20th Anniversary Nicklaus autographs. I blame you, I celebrate you.

 

Now to ponder what to do with them when they come. The finish on your VIPs is amazing.

 

I too am watching the open and surveying the WRX landscape.

 

Man those Muirfield's are beautiful. A fitting tribute.

 

I also have many people to blame for these acquisitions. Not that I wasn't warned about the slippery slope that is the classic club market (and also the custom putter market). I've been sucked in.

 

PS - I've found that the correct shaft makes a world of difference in all of these heads.

[Hawkeye77]

Actually, despite the advertising from the guy across the pond I bought these from (God bless the current exchange rate) - the "20th" may stand for Nicklaus 20th major? Not sure if it's anniversary or really is in celebration of 20 total majors, including ams, after '86 Masters.

 

Happy either way, but if it's majors, I'll be more excited.

 

Whom do you trust for custom work?

[PeanutsDaddy]

Hawkeye,

 

I do all of my own building now, but I've had numerous sets and clubs built by Kadin25.

 

I would ask him to 'build me a winner' and he would follow through every time.

 

I'd also trust BigStu with a build (especially classics) as I've seen his work and have a friend who had a set built by him. He's also a Mac savant if that is a concern.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

Had Kadin build me a driver, first class.

 

Was thinking more about the possible refinishing aspect/grooves, and would be cool if he did that.

 

Not even here and I'm trying to work out the shafts I want to put in, LOL.

[PeanutsDaddy]

Had Kadin build me a driver, first class.

 

Was thinking more about the possible refinishing aspect/grooves, and would be cool if he did that.

 

Not even here and I'm trying to work out the shafts I want to put in, LOL.

 

Sorry Hawkeye, Continental Golf is my source for all of this work. Justin and Stuart are phenomenal. I've had fairway woods, drivers, putters and irons refinished. They stripped the VIPs you see here and refinished the heads. They don't apply chrome but do nearly everything else.

 

I'll post a picture of a refinished face that Justin sent me later. The head was missing the bottom three grooves and they re-scored the lines. I believe they only cut box grooves. Not a problem for an amateur like myself.

[Hawkeye77]

Had Kadin build me a driver, first class.

 

Was thinking more about the possible refinishing aspect/grooves, and would be cool if he did that.

 

Not even here and I'm trying to work out the shafts I want to put in, LOL.

 

Sorry Hawkeye, Continental Golf is my source for all of this work. Justin and Stuart are phenomenal. I've had fairway woods, drivers, putters and irons refinished. They stripped the VIPs you see here and refinished the heads. They don't apply chrome but do nearly everything else.

 

I'll post a picture of a refinished face that Justin sent me later. The head was missing the bottom three grooves and they re-scored the lines. I believe they only cut box grooves. Not a problem for an amateur like myself.

 

Look forward to it and thank you!