z945 Spin issue

[smoothie4896]

Too much of it! Anyone else have this problem. Recently had a set custom built for me, with Recoil 95 stiff shafts. I know its not the shafts, same shaft I have in my i25 (well not exactly, I have the Proto's in my Pings, but I have played both a lot and they are'nt that much different in spin).

Im spinning 7 irons 10-15ft back and 9 and PW off greens, 20+ ft. its crazy, Im not a high spin player, never have been.

 

These irons go high, but not to high. But when they hit, they just suck back. Have not changed ball either, play Vice Pro.

 

Any thoughts or ideas? Would bending 1-2deg strong help?

[M.D.Lee]

I've been going through the same issue similar style irons recently. It's just the players irons that will always be high spinning.

 

Loft being strengthened will help, but it won't solved the problem.

[manima1]

Too much of it! Anyone else have this problem. Recently had a set custom built for me, with Recoil 95 stiff shafts. I know its not the shafts, same shaft I have in my i25 (well not exactly, I have the Proto's in my Pings, but I have played both a lot and they are'nt that much different in spin).

Im spinning 7 irons 10-15ft back and 9 and PW off greens, 20+ ft. its crazy, Im not a high spin player, never have been.

 

These irons go high, but not to high. But when they hit, they just suck back. Have not changed ball either, play Vice Pro.

 

Any thoughts or ideas? Would bending 1-2deg strong help?

 

I have noticed increased spin on my new 745s as well, but 20 feet back sounds absurd. Is the Vice ball modeled after a standard ProV1? A simple ball switch could cure this. If you are not ballooning shots and getting the distance you expect, the spin is a good thing. I would not start bending clubs until you've tried a few different balls. I've noticed absurd spin with ProV1s but not as bad with the ProV1x's. Currently gaming B330 and spin is just right.

[Golfrnut]

Spin is a product of the contact quality and spin loft. No way of knowing what differences in your swing may have been caused by the club change, would have to see some monitor numbers or something to decipher that.

 

If it's due to an increase in your loft at impact, then yes, going a bit stronger in the lofts should help. It will lower the launch a little, decrease spin a little, and lower the apex/descent angle into the greens. Not a lot, but it will change provided everything else stays the same. How much of an effect it has would all depend on where you started and where you end up. Each degree of loft change should alter the launch angle about .7*, spin rate change varies by swing speed but something in the 400-500 RPM range would be an acceptable expectation at 2* stronger.

[justwellsy]

The more important question when you experience increased spin rate is... what is happening to your distance? Logically I'd say you have to be hitting it shorter than your last set, because more spin will cause the ball to fly shorter through the air in most cases. The only way to fix the problem if you want to keep the irons is to add weight to the shaft IMO. Throw some c-taper 120s in there! You rarely see a player with light shafts in blades because of this very issue. Go hit them on a launch monitor and check out your spin number so you can get some accurate data. I've never played shafts that weigh less than 130 grams in my irons and the ones that I've tried do produce too much spin.

[Golfrnut]

The more important question when you experience increased spin rate is... what is happening to your distance? Logically I'd say you have to be hitting it shorter than your last set, because more spin will cause the ball to fly shorter through the air in most cases.

 

Distance changes due to spin alone are usually negligible..

 

The only way to fix the problem if you want to keep the irons is to add weight to the shaft IMO. Throw some c-taper 120s in there! You rarely see a player with light shafts in blades because of this very issue. Go hit them on a launch monitor and check out your spin number so you can get some accurate data. I've never played shafts that weigh less than 130 grams in my irons and the ones that I've tried do produce too much spin.

 

And that could very will be because the shafts fit you, and the weight matches what you need. The other justification you are trying to use is just...silly, and misinformed.

[smoothie4896]

All great info guys! About the Ball, I could try something else but doesnt spin too much with my other clubs, have been playing ti for awhile.

Good point about the contact and spin loft. I am basing these off well struck shots (example: hit a pured 3/4 knockdown 9 iron into an elevated green 30+ft, ball hit pin high and sucked 25ft back off the front of the green. Green is completely flat). The bad shots I havent taken into consideration for this issue. But still could be my swing is a little different with these. But its almost the exact same shaft, weight etc...so not sure

 

Distance is not being affected, they actually go a little further. Just confusing.

[justwellsy]

The more important question when you experience increased spin rate is... what is happening to your distance? Logically I'd say you have to be hitting it shorter than your last set, because more spin will cause the ball to fly shorter through the air in most cases.

 

Distance changes due to spin alone are usually negligible..

 

The only way to fix the problem if you want to keep the irons is to add weight to the shaft IMO. Throw some c-taper 120s in there! You rarely see a player with light shafts in blades because of this very issue. Go hit them on a launch monitor and check out your spin number so you can get some accurate data. I've never played shafts that weigh less than 130 grams in my irons and the ones that I've tried do produce too much spin.

 

And that could very will be because the shafts fit you, and the weight matches what you need. The other justification you are trying to use is just...silly, and misinformed.

 

you're telling me if you added 3,000 to 4,000 rpm of spin to a 7-iron that it would still fly almost the same distance? "Negligible" in my mind means 1-2 yards at most. I can tell you from personal experience that increased spin definitely has an effect on overall distance.

[justwellsy]

All great info guys! About the Ball, I could try something else but doesnt spin too much with my other clubs, have been playing ti for awhile.

Good point about the contact and spin loft. I am basing these off well struck shots (example: hit a pured 3/4 knockdown 9 iron into an elevated green 30+ft, ball hit pin high and sucked 25ft back off the front of the green. Green is completely flat). The bad shots I havent taken into consideration for this issue. But still could be my swing is a little different with these. But its almost the exact same shaft, weight etc...so not sure

 

Distance is not being affected, they actually go a little further. Just confusing.

 

If they go further with more spin then you must be launching the ball higher without knowing it. Your ball's angle of descent is probably much steeper than your last iron set, so the ball has more of a chance to spin because it's not bouncing as far forward. If you are able to hit these on a launch monitor you'll find out pretty quickly what is causing your ball to back up so far on the green.

[Golfrnut]

The more important question when you experience increased spin rate is... what is happening to your distance? Logically I'd say you have to be hitting it shorter than your last set, because more spin will cause the ball to fly shorter through the air in most cases.

Distance changes due to spin alone are usually negligible..

The only way to fix the problem if you want to keep the irons is to add weight to the shaft IMO. Throw some c-taper 120s in there! You rarely see a player with light shafts in blades because of this very issue. Go hit them on a launch monitor and check out your spin number so you can get some accurate data. I've never played shafts that weigh less than 130 grams in my irons and the ones that I've tried do produce too much spin.

And that could very will be because the shafts fit you, and the weight matches what you need. The other justification you are trying to use is just...silly, and misinformed.

you're telling me if you added 3,000 to 4,000 rpm of spin to a 7-iron that it would still fly almost the same distance? "Negligible" in my mind means 1-2 yards at most. I can tell you from personal experience that increased spin definitely has an effect on overall distance.

 

 

That's the difference....3-4K of spin change is not the norm. You are speaking as though that's common, and it isn't.

[manima1]

All great info guys! About the Ball, I could try something else but doesnt spin too much with my other clubs, have been playing ti for awhile.

Good point about the contact and spin loft. I am basing these off well struck shots (example: hit a pured 3/4 knockdown 9 iron into an elevated green 30+ft, ball hit pin high and sucked 25ft back off the front of the green. Green is completely flat). The bad shots I havent taken into consideration for this issue. But still could be my swing is a little different with these. But its almost the exact same shaft, weight etc...so not sure

 

Distance is not being affected, they actually go a little further. Just confusing.

 

Right, it doesn't spin too much with your other clubs but your new forged bladed irons are going to create a lot more spin than what you are used to coming from the i25s. When you say your "other clubs" what do you mean, your wedges? Or Woods/Hybrids?

[smoothie4896]

All great info guys! About the Ball, I could try something else but doesnt spin too much with my other clubs, have been playing ti for awhile.

Good point about the contact and spin loft. I am basing these off well struck shots (example: hit a pured 3/4 knockdown 9 iron into an elevated green 30+ft, ball hit pin high and sucked 25ft back off the front of the green. Green is completely flat). The bad shots I havent taken into consideration for this issue. But still could be my swing is a little different with these. But its almost the exact same shaft, weight etc...so not sure

 

Distance is not being affected, they actually go a little further. Just confusing.

 

If they go further with more spin then you must be launching the ball higher without knowing it. Your ball's angle of descent is probably much steeper than your last iron set, so the ball has more of a chance to spin because it's not bouncing as far forward. If you are able to hit these on a launch monitor you'll find out pretty quickly what is causing your ball to back up so far on the green.

 

This is also a good point. I really need to get on Trackman and find out whats going on. The example I used is just one and probably most drastic. I was just not expecting this much change in spin, actually thought it would be the opposite. Ive only played about 3 rounds with them but will check it out. It also didnt take long to transition as they are the same weight, shaft, etc. So they swung the same, makes it hard to pin point if its the swing, make sense?

[smoothie4896]

All great info guys! About the Ball, I could try something else but doesnt spin too much with my other clubs, have been playing ti for awhile.

Good point about the contact and spin loft. I am basing these off well struck shots (example: hit a pured 3/4 knockdown 9 iron into an elevated green 30+ft, ball hit pin high and sucked 25ft back off the front of the green. Green is completely flat). The bad shots I havent taken into consideration for this issue. But still could be my swing is a little different with these. But its almost the exact same shaft, weight etc...so not sure

 

Distance is not being affected, they actually go a little further. Just confusing.

 

Right, it doesn't spin too much with your other clubs but your new forged bladed irons are going to create a lot more spin than what you are used to coming from the i25s. When you say your "other clubs" what do you mean, your wedges? Or Woods/Hybrids?

 

My other clubs are i25's with the Recoil 95. Same build specs, just the Pings have the Proto shafts, so just a little stiffer. Actually for me, they are very hard to tell apart. They basically feel the same to me.

[justwellsy]

The more important question when you experience increased spin rate is... what is happening to your distance? Logically I'd say you have to be hitting it shorter than your last set, because more spin will cause the ball to fly shorter through the air in most cases.

Distance changes due to spin alone are usually negligible..

The only way to fix the problem if you want to keep the irons is to add weight to the shaft IMO. Throw some c-taper 120s in there! You rarely see a player with light shafts in blades because of this very issue. Go hit them on a launch monitor and check out your spin number so you can get some accurate data. I've never played shafts that weigh less than 130 grams in my irons and the ones that I've tried do produce too much spin.

And that could very will be because the shafts fit you, and the weight matches what you need. The other justification you are trying to use is just...silly, and misinformed.

you're telling me if you added 3,000 to 4,000 rpm of spin to a 7-iron that it would still fly almost the same distance? "Negligible" in my mind means 1-2 yards at most. I can tell you from personal experience that increased spin definitely has an effect on overall distance.

 

 

That's the difference....3-4K of spin change is not the norm. You are speaking as though that's common, and it isn't.

 

I was going off of what he was telling us. If he is spinning his irons 15-20 ft back and complaining about it, then I would assume his normal shots spin back very little or hit and stop. So that would tell me that he probably has vastly increased his spin rate.

 

You're right, a 3-4k rpm change in spin is not normal or common, but neither is his situation.

[Golfrnut]

Not always spin by any means...it's a combination of the spin and the descent angle....and the descent angle means a lot in this situation.

[Golfrnut]

I was going off of what he was telling us. If he is spinning his irons 15-20 ft back and complaining about it, then I would assume his normal shots spin back very little or hit and stop. So that would tell me that he probably has vastly increased his spin rate. You're right, a 3-4k rpm change in spin is not normal or common, but neither is his situation.

 

There has to be a lot going on, for spin to change that much. Unless there was something that effected friction and the quality of the ball contact, I wouldn't call that a primary cause. Altering the descent angle, in a scenario where he was really shallow before on descent, going to something that was a lot more ideal with some spin influence...could. Spin is probably not the biggest change.

[smoothie4896]

Thats why I like these conversation. I have never been a monitor numbers guy, so you guys know so much more. And yes, I have always played Irons that spin on the low end. Hit and stop, unless its a higher lofted, specialty shot that Im trying to spin a lot. But never like this and never with flipping 7 irons.

 

More I listen to you guys, It almost has to be me, right?

[justwellsy]

All great info guys! About the Ball, I could try something else but doesnt spin too much with my other clubs, have been playing ti for awhile.

Good point about the contact and spin loft. I am basing these off well struck shots (example: hit a pured 3/4 knockdown 9 iron into an elevated green 30+ft, ball hit pin high and sucked 25ft back off the front of the green. Green is completely flat). The bad shots I havent taken into consideration for this issue. But still could be my swing is a little different with these. But its almost the exact same shaft, weight etc...so not sure

 

Distance is not being affected, they actually go a little further. Just confusing.

 

If they go further with more spin then you must be launching the ball higher without knowing it. Your ball's angle of descent is probably much steeper than your last iron set, so the ball has more of a chance to spin because it's not bouncing as far forward. If you are able to hit these on a launch monitor you'll find out pretty quickly what is causing your ball to back up so far on the green.

 

This is also a good point. I really need to get on Trackman and find out whats going on. The example I used is just one and probably most drastic. I was just not expecting this much change in spin, actually thought it would be the opposite. Ive only played about 3 rounds with them but will check it out. It also didnt take long to transition as they are the same weight, shaft, etc. So they swung the same, makes it hard to pin point if its the swing, make sense?

 

the 965s are true blades so I would expect them to spin more than your i25s, not the opposite. In fact, most people don't realize that a lot of the extra distance from game improvement irons (aside from jacked lofts) is the reduction in spin compared to a blade or player cavity. You can achieve the same or nearly the same ball speed and have shots that travel 10 yards apart or more.

 

If I had to guess I'd say the issue lies in your angle of attack. The more perimeter weighted i25 will swing a little different than the Z945, which is toe weighted to help more evenly distribute the weight. The sole also plays a role in this as the 965 has a thinner sole that allows you to glide through the turf vs slide on top of it. Are you taking larger divots than normal? Do you have a steep angle of attack as it is? I'd say look into those things and you'll find your answer.

[justwellsy]

I was going off of what he was telling us. If he is spinning his irons 15-20 ft back and complaining about it, then I would assume his normal shots spin back very little or hit and stop. So that would tell me that he probably has vastly increased his spin rate. You're right, a 3-4k rpm change in spin is not normal or common, but neither is his situation.

 

There has to be a lot going on, for spin to change that much. Unless there was something that effected friction and the quality of the ball contact, I wouldn't call that a primary cause. Altering the descent angle, in a scenario where he was really shallow before on descent, going to something that was a lot more ideal with some spin influence...could. Spin is probably not the biggest change.

 

I mentioned angle of descent and I agree that it's more than spin, simply because spin isn't a stand alone value... it's affected by other factors. If he is truly digging through the turf easier with the smaller sole, then he would have an easier time compressing the ball and creating more spin.

[smoothie4896]

No, dont have a steep angle, never really had a problem with that. Never take big divots. The divots with these have looked good.

 

I really like the soles on the 945, almost as fogiving as the i25 soles. They really glide through well.

 

Could an upright lie angle affect this at all? The shorter irons do seem to be a little to UP for me.?

[justwellsy]

No, dont have a steep angle, never really had a problem with that. Never take big divots. The divots with these have looked good.

 

I really like the soles on the 945, almost as fogiving as the i25 soles. They really glide through well.

 

Could an upright lie angle affect this at all? The shorter irons do seem to be a little to UP for me.?

 

They should be standard lie angle if you ordered them that way. They may "appear" more upright because the offset is less, but they should not be. Again, I just think you need to get on a launch monitor and hit the i25s as well if possible. Compare those numbers and you should see a difference. If you don't then I'm guessing it has to do with turf interaction, which you wouldn't see hitting off mats.

[Golfrnut]

No, dont have a steep angle, never really had a problem with that. Never take big divots. The divots with these have looked good.

 

I really like the soles on the 945, almost as fogiving as the i25 soles. They really glide through well.

 

Could an upright lie angle affect this at all? The shorter irons do seem to be a little to UP for me.?

 

Unless the lie angle really changed posture and altered your delivery angles, I would say no.

 

Impact location relative to CG, could produce some additional spin through the gear effect. This is speaking relative to low impacts on the face.

[MadGolfer76]

When you move into mb's, it means you should be able to control the amount of spin that you put on the ball. Gotta know how to increase or decrease it with your swing. Minor tweaks to the club setup itself aren't going to make much difference.

[smoothie4896]

When you move into mb's, it means you should be able to control the amount of spin that you put on the ball. Gotta know how to increase or decrease it with your swing. Minor tweaks to the club setup itself aren't going to make much difference.

 

Thank you for commenting and referencing my game, one that you have never seen. Im a scratch golfer, was as low as a +2 a few years back, now only play once a week. Was a PGA instructor for 7 years. So to your statement, I can control the amount of spin I put on the shot and understand the golf swing better than most. When I ask the questions above, its because I have never experienced this before and that would include other blades I have played.

 

I dont first bring this up because I want to get info on maybe these blades or combination of shaft and club. Didnt feel the need to talk highly about myself like lots of the big over boasters on this site who are probably full of it. But thank you for your unbelievable amount of knowledge on all things Blade.

[BearQ]

Hey OP. I just think the shaft pairing might not work with 945's. 99% of players in a blade model are using steel. I just think 95g shaft is too light for a bladed iron.

 

I would advise switching back to your i25's or reshafting the 945's.

 

Also, there is a significant reduction in spin rates with the prototype (300-450rpm), Ive spent significant time with recoils as well. So it is definitely a small factor. But I know of zero players on any tour or elite amateur level, playing TRUE blades with shafts under 100g, never seen it,

[manima1]

Thats why I like these conversation. I have never been a monitor numbers guy, so you guys know so much more. And yes, I have always played Irons that spin on the low end. Hit and stop, unless its a higher lofted, specialty shot that Im trying to spin a lot. But never like this and never with flipping 7 irons.

 

More I listen to you guys, It almost has to be me, right?

 

I don't think it is just you, I think these 45's just spin a ton. Maybe it's because of the weighting or maybe the double laser milling, I'd be interested to hear more 945/745 owners weigh in after making the switch. On Saturday I had a 9 iron land about 10 feet short of a pin location on a severe downslope (sloping away from me). With my previous irons the most I could hope for would be a 1 hop and stop hopefully next to the pin on a similarly struck ball. With the new 745 9 iron, the ball actually backed up on the slope about 4-5 feet uphill. I've never done that previously.

 

I'm not complaining because paired with the S400 shafts the 745s give me penetrating flight that does not balloon. I've also yet to experience a 20 foot backup however.

 

Any other 745/945 owners see a big jump in spin after making the switch?

[smoothie4896]

Hey OP. I just think the shaft pairing might not work with 945's. 99% of players in a blade model are using steel. I just think 95g shaft is too light for a bladed iron.

 

I would advise switching back to your i25's or reshafting the 945's.

 

Also, there is a significant reduction in spin rates with the prototype (300-450rpm), Ive spent significant time with recoils as well. So it is definitely a small factor. But I know of zero players on any tour or elite amateur level, playing TRUE blades with shafts under 100g, never seen it,

 

Very good thought, for sure could be it. Problem I have is I cant play steel anymore (so wish I could) Have really bad tendonitis (SP) and 2 small herniated disc's? Started about 3 years ago, and the new graphite is really good, but nothing really compares to good ol steel for control.

 

I just went with the Recoil 95 because I hit them so good in i25. Have been investigating some heavier options like Steelfibers 110. Buddy plays them and Ive hit them , really nice. Will keep running the 945 and see if its hack-itis or make a switch.

[smoothie4896]

Thats why I like these conversation. I have never been a monitor numbers guy, so you guys know so much more. And yes, I have always played Irons that spin on the low end. Hit and stop, unless its a higher lofted, specialty shot that Im trying to spin a lot. But never like this and never with flipping 7 irons.

 

More I listen to you guys, It almost has to be me, right?

 

I don't think it is just you, I think these 45's just spin a ton. Maybe it's because of the weighting or maybe the double laser milling, I'd be interested to hear more 945/745 owners weigh in after making the switch. On Saturday I had a 9 iron land about 10 feet short of a pin location on a severe downslope (sloping away from me). With my previous irons the most I could hope for would be a 1 hop and stop hopefully next to the pin on a similarly struck ball. With the new 745 9 iron, the ball actually backed up on the slope about 4-5 feet uphill. I've never done that previously.

 

I'm not complaining because paired with the S400 shafts the 745s give me penetrating flight that does not balloon. I've also yet to experience a 20 foot backup however.

 

Any other 745/945 owners see a big jump in spin after making the switch?

 

Ha Ha, this is the stuff Im seeing. I really need to get on a monitor and see what is going on and what the spin really is. because I just dont see it in the ball flight, like you would normally see from an over spinning iron shot

[Golfrnut]

I just think 95g shaft is too light for a bladed iron. But I know of zero players on any tour or elite amateur level, playing TRUE blades with shafts under 100g, never seen it,

 

Okay, what exactly is too light? Where are people coming up with this? It makes zero sense. None. Nada.

 

Please explain your theory behind this! Love to hear it....

[smoothie4896]

I just think 95g shaft is too light for a bladed iron. But I know of zero players on any tour or elite amateur level, playing TRUE blades with shafts under 100g, never seen it,

 

Okay, what exactly is too light? Where are people coming up with this? It makes zero sense. None. Nada.

 

Please explain your theory behind this! Love to hear it....

 

I think his comment is probably more based on what he's seen. And I have seen the same, most accomplished players that can play a muscleback will use heavier shafts. But I would also agree that there is no such thing as too light, just what fits a players swing, tempo, load, etc. And the 95 Proto's fit me just fine. Transitioned to them No problem. All time favorite was the Modus 120X, played them for years. So I prefer heavier, but health issues prevent that now unfortunately.