Salem CC vs Ferncroft? Northshore MA

[BillyBaroo2002]

Looking for some first-hand knowledge regarding these two clubs located just north of Boston that I may not get from an hour tour and 18 holes. My wife and I are looking to join a club - and both are within 10 minutes of our house. Initiation fee/dues/wait list aside - can anyone offer any inside info? My wife and I are both avid golfers - mid 30's - 2 young kids.

 

Appreciate any help in advance

[raynorfan1]

I think the two have fundamentally different initiation fees / dues / wait lists - that's probably going to drive most of your decision making.

[medicoreMAgolfer]

Salem is one of the dozen or so courses in Mass area that carries a multi-year waiting list or requires enough sponsors and letter writers that make it a multi year process to get in. Don't know economics, but I would guessin the $10k+ in annual dues range with initiation $50k or higher.

 

That being said, Salem is a great course and club. I've heard good things about ferncroft, but I can tell you that's salem is a joy to play - I believe they're hosting the senior US open in 17 or 18 (they hosted in 01). I played this summer, up there with my favorite courses in the area, and I've been fortunate to have played many / most of them (still looking for that elusive Essex and Kittanset invite...)

[BillyBaroo2002]

I think the two have fundamentally different initiation fees / dues / wait lists - that's probably going to drive most of your decision making.

 

Yes for sure. Salem would be a wait. Not sure about pricing but heard from someone with "knowledge" that dues/initiation are actually quite similar (Salem a bit more).

[BillyBaroo2002]

Salem is one of the dozen or so courses in Mass area that carries a multi-year waiting list or requires enough sponsors and letter writers that make it a multi year process to get in. Don't know economics, but I would guessin the $10k+ in annual dues range with initiation $50k or higher.

 

That being said, Salem is a great course and club. I've heard good things about ferncroft, but I can tell you that's salem is a joy to play - I believe they're hosting the senior US open in 17 or 18 (they hosted in 01). I played this summer, up there with my favorite courses in the area, and I've been fortunate to have played many / most of them (still looking for that elusive Essex and Kittanset invite...)

 

Thanks for reply - We are aiming Salem if it makes sense. Wait list is "ok" if we can stomach the $$ since the age of our kids would make it tough to golf frequently anyways. Played Essex a few years back - awesome track.

[OrangeCrush]

Billy,

 

My uncle was a member at Salem and not to be the bearer of bad news but unless you are a HIGHLY connected person, that wait list is DECADES long. It's one of the hardest clubs to join in MA. If you want a world class course and willing to drive 35-40 mins, look at Turner Hill in Ipswich or Renaissance in Haverhill. I used to work at Tedesco in Marblehead 20+ years ago and that is a GREAT course. Only 6500 from the tips but the conditions are EXCELLENT. The greens will be some of the best you will ever putt on. My former boss is now the Supe at Ferncroft and I know Mike keeps a great conditioned course over there too.

 

Good Luck with your choice!

[raynorfan1]

My uncle was a member at Salem and not to be the bearer of bad news but unless you are a HIGHLY connected person, that wait list is DECADES long. It's one of the hardest clubs to join in MA.

 

I don't think it's that bad, and I'm pretty sure they have some membership options that are short of full equity that let you play golf for a period of time without being a "full" member. I'm not sure what the initiation looks like at Ferncroft, but the right play is probably to join there while you sit out the waitlist / build the connections for Salem.

[OrangeCrush]

I wish I could be joking on this one. From what I was told is the issue is the memberships can be willed to other family members so as the older people are dying their heirs are able to keep their slot so the amount of new ones that come up is very rare. I hope I am wrong and people can get on but this was coming from my late uncle.

[raynorfan1]

I wish I could be joking on this one. From what I was told is the issue is the memberships can be willed to other family members so as the older people are dying their heirs are able to keep their slot so the amount of new ones that come up is very rare. I hope I am wrong and people can get on but this was coming from my late uncle.

 

It can't be that bad if there's a "contact us to request membership information" form on the website...compare to say Concord, which gives the full "don't even bother" treatment on its website.

[medicoreMAgolfer]

If you're a bruins fan, I believe Tuuka Rask and Shaun Thornton are Ferncroft members... Thornton hosts a charity event there every year. It's owned by one of those larger operators, where as Salem is an equity club

 

Concord is tough, but you can get in. Just need to live in Concord and find 7 sponsors / letter writers who A.) really know you and B.) haven't sponsored anyone for 3+ years! If you can check those two boxes, you can get on the 7 year waiting list...

 

It stinks for someone who moves to town and wants to join next year (that's why nashawtuc does well), but if you're in town, live there for 5-10 years, then start the process it's doable. Place is exceedingly reasonable too (that old Yankee sensibility)

[OrangeCrush]

I wish I could be joking on this one. From what I was told is the issue is the memberships can be willed to other family members so as the older people are dying their heirs are able to keep their slot so the amount of new ones that come up is very rare. I hope I am wrong and people can get on but this was coming from my late uncle.

 

It can't be that bad if there's a "contact us to request membership information" form on the website...compare to say Concord, which gives the full "don't even bother" treatment on its website.

 

Well that's great news then!!! As I said I am hoping I am wrong as he did pass a way a few years back. When I worked at Tedesco, Salem was the gold standard that our Supe wanted the course to be like. He was close friends with the Salem Supe, they shared alot of trade secrets. I never got to play at Salem and I live so close to it too! UGH!!!

 

If the OP gets in, maybe he can take us :)

[BillyBaroo2002]

I wish I could be joking on this one. From what I was told is the issue is the memberships can be willed to other family members so as the older people are dying their heirs are able to keep their slot so the amount of new ones that come up is very rare. I hope I am wrong and people can get on but this was coming from my late uncle.

 

It can't be that bad if there's a "contact us to request membership information" form on the website...compare to say Concord, which gives the full "don't even bother" treatment on its website.

 

Well that's great news then!!! As I said I am hoping I am wrong as he did pass a way a few years back. When I worked at Tedesco, Salem was the gold standard that our Supe wanted the course to be like. He was close friends with the Salem Supe, they shared alot of trade secrets. I never got to play at Salem and I live so close to it too! UGH!!!

 

If the OP gets in, maybe he can take us :)

 

Haha! If I do end up getting in - it may be in 30 years! I'll report back - planning on meeting with both clubs between now and spring.

 

Thanks again to all for contribution.

[OrangeCrush]

I wish I could be joking on this one. From what I was told is the issue is the memberships can be willed to other family members so as the older people are dying their heirs are able to keep their slot so the amount of new ones that come up is very rare. I hope I am wrong and people can get on but this was coming from my late uncle.

 

It can't be that bad if there's a "contact us to request membership information" form on the website...compare to say Concord, which gives the full "don't even bother" treatment on its website.

 

Well that's great news then!!! As I said I am hoping I am wrong as he did pass a way a few years back. When I worked at Tedesco, Salem was the gold standard that our Supe wanted the course to be like. He was close friends with the Salem Supe, they shared alot of trade secrets. I never got to play at Salem and I live so close to it too! UGH!!!

 

If the OP gets in, maybe he can take us :)

 

Haha! If I do end up getting in - it may be in 30 years! I'll report back - planning on meeting with both clubs between now and spring.

 

Thanks again to all for contribution.

 

I got nothing but time ;)

[cubiclegolfer]

Your goal is to get in to Salem, right? Pretty sure you don't need a message board to figure that out. Good luck either way, heard some nice things about Ferncroft as well, but Salem, man.

[BrianL99]

If you're a bruins fan, I believe Tuuka Rask and Shaun Thornton are Ferncroft members... Thornton hosts a charity event there every year. It's owned by one of those larger operators, where as Salem is an equity club

 

Concord is tough, but you can get in. Just need to live in Concord and find 7 sponsors / letter writers who A.) really know you and B.) haven't sponsored anyone for 3+ years! If you can check those two boxes, you can get on the 7 year waiting list ...

 

It stinks for someone who moves to town and wants to join next year (that's why nashawtuc does well), but if you're in town, live there for 5-10 years, then start the process it's doable. Place is exceedingly reasonable too (that old Yankee sensibility)

 

If Concord has a 7 year waiting list, that's the shortest I've seen in 40 years. Other than the 2 times in the last 30 years they opened up "young executive memberships", the list has been fairly stable at almost 20 years. I can't imagine while anyone would want to play that course anymore, but that's another story. It used to be awesome, until the "younger generation" decided they should allow carts about 25 years ago. Hasn't been the same since. You need to wear a helmet to play the Back 9 and avoid the "incoming" and boots to keep dry in the swamps.

 

As for Salem, unless you're seriously connected as Mike said, you won't have to worry about how often you can play ... your kids will be all grownup when you get in ... & don't expect to be on that waiting list for free.

 

Ferncroft is a horse of another color. If you can afford you, you can get in ... assuming you can deal with the personality of the membership and a golf course that seems to have been laid out by someone using Lego Blocks.

[cubiclegolfer]

If you're a bruins fan, I believe Tuuka Rask and Shaun Thornton are Ferncroft members... Thornton hosts a charity event there every year. It's owned by one of those larger operators, where as Salem is an equity club

 

Concord is tough, but you can get in. Just need to live in Concord and find 7 sponsors / letter writers who A.) really know you and B.) haven't sponsored anyone for 3+ years! If you can check those two boxes, you can get on the 7 year waiting list...

 

It stinks for someone who moves to town and wants to join next year (that's why nashawtuc does well), but if you're in town, live there for 5-10 years, then start the process it's doable. Place is exceedingly reasonable too (that old Yankee sensibility)

 

If Concord has a 7 year waiting list, that's the shortest it's been in 50 years. Other than the 2 times in the last 30 years they opened up "young executive memberships", the list has been fairly stable at 20 years.

 

As for Salem, unless you're seriously connected as Mike said, you won't have to worry about how often you can play ... your kids will be all grownup when you get in ... & don't expect to be on that waiting list for free.

 

Ferncroft is a horse of another color. If you can afford you, you can get in ... assuming you can put up with the personality of the membership and an awful golf course.

 

There he is, Mr. Massachusetts ray of sunshine right on cue!

[allparz]

BrianL99 is spot on in his analysis of gaining membership at Concord CC and Salem CC-- It's just a little Dose of Reality that maybe some don't want to believe, but it is accurate....Buddy of mine is Salem member - took him 7 years on the list and he is connected/wired/wealthy.

 

With the stock market and real estate rising the way it has don't expect any prestigious eastern MA club to be easily accessible....maybe Blue Hills, Walpole and Spring Valley because there are ~20 clubs in a 10mi radius but no where else....

[BrianL99]

BrianL99 is spot on in his analysis of gaining membership at Concord CC and Salem CC-- It's just a little Dose of Reality that maybe some don't want to believe, but it is accurate....Buddy of mine is Salem member - took him 7 years on the list and he is connected/wired/wealthy.

 

With the stock market and real estate rising the way it has don't expect any prestigious eastern MA club to be easily accessible....maybe Blue Hills, Walpole and Spring Valley because there are ~20 clubs in a 10mi radius but no where else....

 

I'm in the business, I should have a clue :)

 

& I'm not sure I'd put Walpole, Blue Hills or Spring Valley in the same paragraph as Salem or Concord.

 

& Spring Valley has a "religious requirements" if I'm not mistaken?

[BillyBaroo2002]

BrianL99 is spot on in his analysis of gaining membership at Concord CC and Salem CC-- It's just a little Dose of Reality that maybe some don't want to believe, but it is accurate....Buddy of mine is Salem member - took him 7 years on the list and he is connected/wired/wealthy.

 

With the stock market and real estate rising the way it has don't expect any prestigious eastern MA club to be easily accessible....maybe Blue Hills, Walpole and Spring Valley because there are ~20 clubs in a 10mi radius but no where else....

 

Since my original post I've spoken to Salem CC, Ferncroft, and Turner Hill. Salem stated 6-8 years wait, which is not terrible - and jives with your buddies wait. My kids are 3 and 1, so it's not like I'm playing any weekend golf right now anyways.

 

Ferncroft and TH are accepting members right away. All three are pricey. Differential being proximity to our house. Salem - 4 mins, Ferncroft - 10 mins, Turner Hill - 20 mins.

 

Proximity a huge factor for me - that's the only reason why Salem is probably #1.

 

Anyways - thanks again for everyone contributing.

[OrangeCrush]

BrianL99 is spot on in his analysis of gaining membership at Concord CC and Salem CC-- It's just a little Dose of Reality that maybe some don't want to believe, but it is accurate....Buddy of mine is Salem member - took him 7 years on the list and he is connected/wired/wealthy.

 

With the stock market and real estate rising the way it has don't expect any prestigious eastern MA club to be easily accessible....maybe Blue Hills, Walpole and Spring Valley because there are ~20 clubs in a 10mi radius but no where else....

 

Since my original post I've spoken to Salem CC, Ferncroft, and Turner Hill. Salem stated 6-8 years wait, which is not terrible - and jives with your buddies wait. My kids are 3 and 1, so it's not like I'm playing any weekend golf right now anyways.

 

Ferncroft and TH are accepting members right away. All three are pricey. Differential being proximity to our house. Salem - 4 mins, Ferncroft - 10 mins, Turner Hill - 20 mins.

 

Proximity a huge factor for me - that's the only reason why Salem is probably #1.

 

Anyways - thanks again for everyone contributing.

 

6-8 years works for me, my kids will be 15-18 by then at a minimum and I can join you more often ;)

[BillyBaroo2002]

BrianL99 is spot on in his analysis of gaining membership at Concord CC and Salem CC-- It's just a little Dose of Reality that maybe some don't want to believe, but it is accurate....Buddy of mine is Salem member - took him 7 years on the list and he is connected/wired/wealthy.

 

With the stock market and real estate rising the way it has don't expect any prestigious eastern MA club to be easily accessible....maybe Blue Hills, Walpole and Spring Valley because there are ~20 clubs in a 10mi radius but no where else....

 

Since my original post I've spoken to Salem CC, Ferncroft, and Turner Hill. Salem stated 6-8 years wait, which is not terrible - and jives with your buddies wait. My kids are 3 and 1, so it's not like I'm playing any weekend golf right now anyways.

 

Ferncroft and TH are accepting members right away. All three are pricey. Differential being proximity to our house. Salem - 4 mins, Ferncroft - 10 mins, Turner Hill - 20 mins.

 

Proximity a huge factor for me - that's the only reason why Salem is probably #1.

 

Anyways - thanks again for everyone contributing.

 

6-8 years works for me, my kids will be 15-18 by then at a minimum and I can join you more often ;)

 

Shoot me a note in 5 just in case I get in early!

[medicoreMAgolfer]

Brian - whether it is 7 years or 10 years, it is a very long time. However, it is not 20 years. The biggest challenge with Concord is actually getting the necessary signatures and letters, due to limitations on how many people members can be actively sponsoring at one time. The people who have hosted me have been in for 3-7 or so years and waited sub 10 but more than 5. I have another ex-colleague who is a member at another club closer to the city and is now going through the process. He was told sub 10 years, but only if he gets all the sigs.

 

That being said, hard to really disagree with anything else you said. I have only played Concord weekday mornings when it was very quiet. The place is a joy to walk on a quiet day - but couldn't imagine a busy day with carts!

[BrianL99]

Brian - whether it is 7 years or 10 years, it is a very long time. However, it is not 20 years. The biggest challenge with Concord is actually getting the necessary signatures and letters, due to limitations on how many people members can be actively sponsoring at one time. The people who have hosted me have been in for 3-7 or so years and waited sub 10 but more than 5. I have another ex-colleague who is a member at another club closer to the city and is now going through the process. He was told sub 10 years, but only if he gets all the sigs.

 

That being said, hard to really disagree with anything else you said. I have only played Concord weekday mornings when it was very quiet. The place is a joy to walk on a quiet day - but couldn't imagine a busy day with carts!

 

Concord may be less than it's been in the past, the club is no where near as popular as it was. I have a friend who was on the wait list for 17 years. He joined Nashawtuc in the meantime. In my 20 years of living down the street from the club, I only know one person who beat the system (& he wont' admit to it). Charley Volpone who was the Pro at Nashawtic back in the day, got into Concord, only a couple of years after getting his Am status back. He *claims* he was on the list for many years, but I don't think so.

 

The other problem at Concord (as many clubs like that), is not only getting the sponsors, but getting the right one. I have heard of at least 20 potential members being "blackballed", because one his sponsors wasn't the right person to use as a sponsor.

 

As I said, I don't like the course. I used to play it 2 or 3 times a week, back in the 80's, but only played it once since they put the cart paths in and I won't go back there.

 

My favorite Concord CC story goes ....

 

It's the end of May, a gorgeous, sunny day, about 75 degrees. There are less than 10 cars in the parking lot. I'm standing at the Pro Shop, talking with Jock McCleod, the Pro back in the day. 2 old timers walk towards the tee and Jock says ... "watch this". We watch the 2 guys and they catch a glimpse of two-some, on the 3rd hole. One guy says to the other, "s***, it's too busy here, let's go off the Back 9".

 

At least it's reasonably affordable :)

[allparz]

I'll give a different perspective on Concord CC....

 

Concord is a classic Country Club, very nice Donald Ross golf course kept in good shape, they put some money into research and going back to the original design, decent practice range right next to the 1st tee, they have wonderful clay tennis courts and pro shop, couple of paddle tennis courts for the winter and they have a decent pool. Snack bars at the pool and at the 9 hole turn. It's kind of low key, no one running to your car to pick up your clubs, no tipping, no fancy clubhouse/restaurant, no big pro shop.

 

So for a family it's top notch, i.e. drop your kids off in the summer, they learn to swim, play tennis and maybe golf. And I think that's the way they like it, .ie. Dad was a member, kids then join, raise their kids there, repeat..... Not much pretense...everybody knows everybody...

[BrianL99]

I'll give a different perspective on Concord CC....

 

Concord is a classic Country Club, very nice Donald Ross golf course kept in good shape, they put some money into research and going back to the original design, decent practice range right next to the 1st tee, they have wonderful clay tennis courts and pro shop, couple of paddle tennis courts for the winter and they have a decent pool. Snack bars at the pool and at the 9 hole turn. It's kind of low key, no one running to your car to pick up your clubs, no tipping, no fancy clubhouse/restaurant, no big pro shop.

 

So for a family it's top notch, i.e. drop your kids off in the summer, they learn to swim, play tennis and maybe golf. And I think that's the way they like it, .ie. Dad was a member, kids then join, raise their kids there, repeat..... Not much pretense...everybody knows everybody...

 

Did the put air conditioning in the Clubhouse yet?

[Mike_Cardello]

As a member of my high school golf team, we would play Peabody High at Salem CC, as that was their home course.  It was very nice.  That being said, when we showed up to play our match, a bunch of my teammates needed to use the bathroom, as we had to leave school a few minutes early to make sure we got there in time to get our whole match in.  No one that wasn't a member was allowed to use any of the facilities.  We were told that we would need to "use the woods" on the course to go to the bathroom.  Even the caddies weren't allowed in the clubhouse. I found that incredible stuck up and it turned me off from that place forever.  (not that I have the money or name to be invited to join anyway).  The second most stuck up CC was Winchester.  Although they definitely weren't as bad.  The absolute best CC that really had an all-around great facility was Indian Ridge in Andover.  Impecible course, great amenities, as well  as the staff and members treating us like human beings.  At that time they were looking for members to join and they had just gotten rid of the initiation fees as well.  As of writing this response, they have about a 5 year waiting list for golf, and a 2 year for a social membership.  Very low minimums that are required to spend at the restaurant each month, pool, tennis courts, and just all-around great people that are members and staff.  I've heard great things about Turner Hill CC in Ipswitch, as well as Andover CC.  I don't have personal experience with those though.  I was on my high school golf team with the head teaching PGA pro at Andover though.  For more info on Andover, contact Elvis Taraskiewicz.  Let him know Mike Cardello sent you.  He's a great guy.  My 9 year old son take lessons from his father now, who was our coach in high school.  Hope this helps a little bit.