Bryson Dechambeau vs. USGA

[bigeasy]

First of all please close this if I am repeating a thread. But I cant see where or think Bryson is cheating in any way. It looks to me what he is doing is harder than conventional and I am not going to discuss anchoring which to me is borderline. Why do they want to pick on him? Anyone want to clarify or had insight into this? I must say that I lost it for the USGA when they said grooves were making the game easier.

[Hawkeye77]

What are you talking about? A nonconforming putter being discovered is not picking on him.

[disco111]

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/report-bryson-dechambeau-forced-to-alter-his-putter-after-being-told-it-was-non-conforming-by-the-usga

 

 

From the above link, the USGA has heartburn, due to his putter being center shafted. I've seen a few center shafted putters, as I'm sure many here have also seen and probably used and none of those were deemed illegal. It's only my opinion, but I think the cheese has slipped off of the USGA's cracker. But, read the link and decide for yourself. It does seem that he's being singled out, for the mere fact that he definitely marches to a different drummer.......

[Hawkeye77]

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/report-bryson-dechambeau-forced-to-alter-his-putter-after-being-told-it-was-non-conforming-by-the-usga

 

 

From the above link, the USGA has heartburn, due to his putter being center shafted. I've seen a few center shafted putters, as I'm sure many here have also seen and probably used and none of those were deemed illegal. It's only my opinion, but I think the cheese has slipped off of the USGA's cracker. But, read the link and decide for yourself. It does seem that he's being singled out, for the mere fact that he definitely marches to a different drummer.......

 

Approving several of his putters and finding one that is nonconforming is hardly singling him out.

 

What design factors about the putter were the USGA getting wrong?

[MtlJeff]

Can someone explain the rule to me and why he was violating it? i read a few articles it doesn't specify why center shafted was a problem but others weren't for the way he was putting.

 

It's a weird putting style for sure but i know guys who putt similar.

[stu_man]

Yeah, the USGA has NEVER singled out players.. want to know why the USGA banned croquet style putting? because Bobby Jones didn't like Sam Snead and told Joe Day to ban it.. done, over.

[bigeasy]

What are you talking about? A nonconforming putter being discovered is not picking on him.

please tell me why it is non conforming? that is all i am asking. This is a forum?

[Hawkeye77]

Can someone explain the rule to me and why he was violating it? i read a few articles it doesn't specify why center shafted was a problem but others weren't for the way he was putting.

 

It's a weird putting style for sure but i know guys who putt similar.

 

USGA won't say. He probably knows but isn't saying what specifically is the technical issue, so I don't think there is a way to know what the actual design issue is in this case without a lot more info.

 

I guess the illegal one must be his "favorite" of all the putters he sent in.

[Hawkeye77]

What are you talking about? A nonconforming putter being discovered is not picking on him.

please tell me why it is non conforming? that is all i am asking. This is a forum?

 

Your post didn't say anything about his putter, I was just guessing that's what you were talking about.

 

I have no idea why it is nonconforming. You claim he is being picked on by the USGA, so why do you think it is conforming and the USGA is lying about it?

[MtlJeff]

The picture just showed a weird mallet with a shaft in the middle. It's almost like putting a shaft in the middle of a small brick.

 

And then he putts somewhat side-saddle looking directly at the hole

 

I would love to know what about the putter was illegal. I really didn't know there was many regulations on putters period. There's a lot of weird ones out there

[bladehunter]

USGA might as well come forth now vs waiting for the shat storm that will come if they keep this " confidential" stance.... how on earth can they single this out...give no reason or explanation , and yet the Broom stick is still in ? one way or another please.. either putting us a free for all for methods or you define a stroke and set a length etc.... They let Bryson putt this way for months HOPING he would suck at it and dump it... well he didnt so now they must POO POO on it ... that is bad enough but to do it without explanation is simply wrong ... and wont fly.. wait and see

[ThinkingPlus]

What are you talking about? A nonconforming putter being discovered is not picking on him.

please tell me why it is non conforming? that is all i am asking. This is a forum?

 

Your post didn't say anything about his putter, I was just guessing that's what you were talking about.

 

I have no idea why it is nonconforming. You claim he is being picked on by the USGA, so why do you think it is conforming and the USGA is lying about it?

 

I saw a different article which indicated that in addition to the non-conforming putter they (USGA) were concerned his style of putting reduced the skill level necessary to putt.

[bladehunter]

What are you talking about? A nonconforming putter being discovered is not picking on him.

please tell me why it is non conforming? that is all i am asking. This is a forum?

 

 

 

read the article... says was approved before ...now they decide its not ... and reasons are " confedential"

 

What are you talking about? A nonconforming putter being discovered is not picking on him.

please tell me why it is non conforming? that is all i am asking. This is a forum?

 

Your post didn't say anything about his putter, I was just guessing that's what you were talking about.

 

I have no idea why it is nonconforming. You claim he is being picked on by the USGA, so why do you think it is conforming and the USGA is lying about it?

 

I saw a different article which indicated that in addition to the non-conforming putter they (USGA) were concerned his style of putting reduced the skill level necessary to putt.

 

 

 

yes.. it reads as if they have been "warning" him that his stroke isnt kosher..yet telling him it "conforms"

[bladehunter]

here it is

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...non-conforming/

 

 

 

and to do it a day before he is to play in a tournament... said they would DQ him if he showed... Hell.. i would show up and make them do it ... just to make the Media s*** storm start!

[ThinkingPlus]

USGA might as well come forth now vs waiting for the shat storm that will come if they keep this " confidential" stance.... how on earth can they single this out...give no reason or explanation , and yet the Broom stick is still in ? one way or another please.. either putting us a free for all for methods or you define a stroke and set a length etc.... They let Bryson putt this way for months HOPING he would suck at it and dump it... well he didnt so now they must POO POO on it ... that is bad enough but to do it without explanation is simply wrong ... and wont fly.. wait and see

 

The USGA is arbitrary. They operate in an alternate reality that bears little resemblance to the one most of us live in.

[Hawkeye77]

USGA might as well come forth now vs waiting for the shat storm that will come if they keep this " confidential" stance.... how on earth can they single this out...give no reason or explanation , and yet the Broom stick is still in ? one way or another please.. either putting us a free for all for methods or you define a stroke and set a length etc.... They let Bryson putt this way for months HOPING he would suck at it and dump it... well he didnt so now they must POO POO on it ... that is bad enough but to do it without explanation is simply wrong ... and wont fly.. wait and see

 

Sounds like that is policy for them, they review tons of clubs all the time. Nothing prevents Bryson from releasing all the details so far as we know - I guess if he wants to complain about it I think it's on him to lay out the facts that would show he's being mistreated, rather than just act the victim.

 

The putter was just submitted this month, so it's not an issue of several months and other of his putters were found to be conforming. Sorry, not seeing the outrage yet, but maybe he'll be a little more forthcoming.

[Loki]

Yeah, the USGA has NEVER singled out players.. want to know why the USGA banned croquet style putting? because Bobby Jones didn't like Sam Snead and told Joe Day to ban it.. done, over.

 

LOL love to see the CT on this one.

[Hawkeye77]

Article makes the point it's the putter, not the style, the rest is whining by the coach.

 

Just don't understand all the overreaction without any actual evidence from Bryson to answer the ultimate technical questions.

[bladehunter]

well maybe i missed something.. are yu saying that this is a NEW side saddle putter ? and the one he began this journey with is ok? if so then its not as bad as i thought... But still .... doesnt sound like they told Bryson why it failed either... sounds more "because we said so " to me...

[MtlJeff]

I still don't get why center shaft is illegal but rear shaft isn't , using the same style of putting and putterhead

 

It's crazy in a case of the rules of golf being violated, they won't tell the golf playing public what was illegal about it.

[Mr. Herbert]

well maybe i missed something.. are yu saying that this is a NEW side saddle putter ? and the one he began this journey with is ok? if so then its not as bad as i thought... But still .... doesnt sound like they told Bryson why it failed either... sounds more "because we said so " to me...

 

From the Golf Digest article you can link to the Schupak article. That article give the following quote from the USGA spokeswoman: "The circumstances surrounding the club's non-conformance are confidential and between the USGA and Bryson DeChambeau."

 

So it sounds like BD knows why it was deemed non-conforming. BD could tell us, but that might make it harder to play the victim.

[NorthTexasGlfr]

well maybe i missed something.. are yu saying that this is a NEW side saddle putter ? and the one he began this journey with is ok? if so then its not as bad as i thought... But still .... doesnt sound like they told Bryson why it failed either... sounds more "because we said so " to me...

 

From the Golf Digest article you can link to the Schupak article. That article give the following quote from the USGA spokeswoman: "The circumstances surrounding the club's non-conformance are confidential and between the USGA and Bryson DeChambeau."

 

So it sounds like BD knows why it was deemed non-conforming. BD could tell us, but that might make it harder to play the victim.

 

I've met Bryson and he's is a great guy. But, yes, he definitely knows why it is non-conforming.

[ChaosTheory]

There is a lot of stuff at

http://www.usga.org/rules/equipment-rules.html#!rule-14617

Go to Appendix II, 1d.

 

 

They are obviously trying to make it harder to have a putter that is capable of being used in a long putter fashion. The way I read it, the Ping B90 would not be legal. I think I emailed them last year about it, but did not hear back.

[Hawkeye77]

USGA put up a nice story about him in December.

 

http://www.usga.org/articles/2016/12/dechambeau-adopts-sidesaddle-putting-stroke.html

[bigeasy]

There is a lot of stuff at

http://www.usga.org/...tml#!rule-14617

Go to Appendix II, 1d.

 

 

They are obviously trying to make it harder to have a putter that is capable of being used in a long putter fashion. The way I read it, the Ping B90 would not be legal. I think I emailed them last year about it, but did not hear back.

This doesnt make sense, they have two players using the long putter on the senior tour.

[golfgirlrobin]

Here's my guess. Shaft angle relative to the ground can't exceed 80 degrees when you're in the address position. Because this putter is center shafted, the angle is too upright. Essentially it hangs virtually straight down. Putting the shaft in the rear position would alter the angle and get it within the rule.

 

It's the manufacturer's responsibility to get the club approved. The timeline I saw showed that they gave him a preliminary 'No' within a week of submission. That seems like a pretty reasonable time period to me.

 

All the USGA did here was protect the field.

 

I don't for a second believe DeChambeau's "aw shucks, they didn't tell me why and I'm plum confused" comment. He knows exactly what the problem is. They gave him some sort of explanation and he'd rather not pass it along.

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

well maybe i missed something.. are yu saying that this is a NEW side saddle putter ? and the one he began this journey with is ok? if so then its not as bad as i thought... But still .... doesnt sound like they told Bryson why it failed either... sounds more "because we said so " to me...

 

Sorry, I don't know that. Don't know what he used at Franklin tourney, but he didn't get pre-approval from USGA. Sounds like the Tour told him he needed to get his putter checked out so he did, along with some others, which was just about 3 weeks ago.

[ChillyDipper]

Here's my guess. Shaft angle relative to the ground can't exceed 80 degrees when you're in the address position. Because this putter is center shafted, the angle is too upright. Essentially it hangs virtually straight down. Putting the shaft in the rear position would alter the angle and get it within the rule.

 

It's the manufacturer's responsibility to get the club approved. The timeline I saw showed that they gave him a preliminary 'No' within a week of submission. That seems like a pretty reasonable time period to me.

 

All the USGA did here was protect the field.

 

I don't for a second believe DeChambeau's "aw shucks, they didn't tell me why and I'm plum confused" comment. He knows exactly what the problem is. They gave him some sort of explanation and he'd rather not pass it along.

 

 

I think a Centre shafted putter, meaning the axis of the shaft through the COG and not necessarily through the geometric centre, also has the advantage of not tending to twist under acceleration. This means it's easier to deliver a square clubface vs a heel shafted putter or otherwise.

[nova6868]

I don't know how they can ban side-saddle, it's basically just a really open stance. So you would have to ban an open stance while putting? ...How open?

 

What's more realistic is banning the arm-lock style in general. They will have to bust Kuchar also.

[Evolved]

Here's my guess. Shaft angle relative to the ground can't exceed 80 degrees when you're in the address position. Because this putter is center shafted, the angle is too upright. Essentially it hangs virtually straight down. Putting the shaft in the rear position would alter the angle and get it within the rule.

 

It's the manufacturer's responsibility to get the club approved. The timeline I saw showed that they gave him a preliminary 'No' within a week of submission. That seems like a pretty reasonable time period to me.

 

All the USGA did here was protect the field.

 

I don't for a second believe DeChambeau's "aw shucks, they didn't tell me why and I'm plum confused" comment. He knows exactly what the problem is. They gave him some sort of explanation and he'd rather not pass it along.

 

 

I think a Centre shafted putter, meaning the axis of the shaft through the COG and not necessarily through the geometric centre, also has the advantage of not tending to twist under acceleration. This means it's easier to deliver a square clubface vs a heel shafted putter or otherwise.

 

I think these two figured it out.