Miura baby blades vs mb001

kaaayelll · March 16, 2019

Whats your information source?

I'm also interested to know this.

Not sure if you remember Bombsquadgolf.com. Was a site sort of like this one that I think was sold and bankrupted. Anyway they originally sold Miura Japan heads before they were available in the US. To promote Miura the guy who owned the site gave out tons of info about which irons at retail were Miura forged and what tour only irons were Miura forged.

When Miura came to the US you could only buy assembled sets out of Texas. I bought a set and asked the guy about Miura's work with other companies and he confirmed the models mentioned were forged by Miura and many more than that I just can't remember all of them. Forging irons for other companies was a big part of Miura's business at one time just like Endo so most of this stuff if common knowledge.

They definitely forged for others. On some of the sets, I believe you’re misinformed. Regarding BB being a ground version of the TB, I find that highly suspect and have never heard it before. The different hosel diameter, among other things (toe shape, top line slope, top line/hosel transition), makes me seriously doubt the veracity of this info.

If_I_Could_Only_Putt · March 17, 2019

Whats your information source?

I'm also interested to know this.

Not sure if you remember Bombsquadgolf.com. Was a site sort of like this one that I think was sold and bankrupted. Anyway they originally sold Miura Japan heads before they were available in the US. To promote Miura the guy who owned the site gave out tons of info about which irons at retail were Miura forged and what tour only irons were Miura forged.

When Miura came to the US you could only buy assembled sets out of Texas. I bought a set and asked the guy about Miura's work with other companies and he confirmed the models mentioned were forged by Miura and many more than that I just can't remember all of them. Forging irons for other companies was a big part of Miura's business at one time just like Endo so most of this stuff if common knowledge.
They definitely forged for others. On some of the sets, I believe you're misinformed. Regarding BB being a ground version of the TB, I find that highly suspect and have never heard it before. The different hosel diameter, among other things (toe shape, top line slope, top line/hosel transition), makes me seriously doubt the veracity of this info.

If you never heard about it can't be true?? Well here's the email for Artisan Golf...educated yourself.. ...contact@artisangolftx.com...I checked their website and the guy you need to ask is John Hatfield. They only have 5 employees so it won't be hard to reach him. So now you have everything you need to fact check.

Fyi your theory about the hosel size is rubbish. Miura does not forge heads with the hosel attached remember? They spin weld the hosel on afterwards. The tournament blade was ground to a shorter stubbier size and they just took a shorter stubbier hosel and spin welded it on so the proportions would be right. It's not rocket science.

kaaayelll · March 20, 2019

Miura’s use of spin welding is well documented and, you’re right, grinding the hosel transition is not that big a deal. But you’re talking about a lot of grinding on not one, but two production models in order for them to share blanks. Given how different the two heads are (muscle shape is the same), getting them both as uniform as Miura does by hand grinding, I find hard to believe. I have enough dealings with the company that I’d be quite surprised that that’s never come up; it’s always been assumed that the BB and TB are different molds (just like the KM-350 and KM-008 do not share molds). I’m always open to being wrong, but the statement you heard is easily-misunderstood and was not made by someone not involved in the company. I’ll inquire of those who should know well.

If_I_Could_Only_Putt · March 21, 2019

Hey no hard feelings. I'm sure you know more about Miura than most people. Just not as much as I do.

John @ Artisan Golf worked for Miura and designed the tournament blade. The Tournament blade is not ground from a shared blank and I never came close to saying that..wake up. The founder of Miura turned the Tournament blade into the baby blade with his knack for grinding and it doesn't take much extra grinding...there's only 3/32" difference in height/length. Add a barely wider hosel, sole, and muscle..plus a different toe grind template and it's done. That's 3 tooth picks to grind off so it shouldn't be that hard to believe. My information came from the original Miura and we had multiple conversations on this subject so there is no misunderstanding. I also own both models and it's obvious if you put them side by side which I'm doing now...there's barely any difference..the toe grind is the most noticeable.

Miura does not use molds which you referred to re putter models. I have no knowledge of different forging punches and dies for the putters you mentioned, but a putter is only 1 head. I hear they are $20,000 per die and then another $20k for the punch, so they can probably afford to make one for each putter. If you look at the cost to set things up for a new 2-pw FORGED iron model it's easy to see why a tiny company might elect to hand grind them out of another model especially when you have one of the most talented grinders in the world to do it.

Anyway I'm done with this subject and I'm not sure how I got this far into it. I started out by trying to help some cash strapped golfers realize there are less expensive ways to experience Miura forgings for the first time in order to find out if it's a good fit for them, and then my facts were challenged with assumptions. Francis no like.

I do not make many posts, but when I do I prefer to make accurate ones. Stay thirsty my friends.

Bigmean · March 21, 2019

Hold on one sec....

i am really curious about the mp14 comment. Mizuno had Miura make the mp14? I am not saying I don't believe it or do or whatever, but I would like to hear more about that as my 2 favorite sets happen to be mp14 and bb....

kaaayelll · March 22, 2019

teebrain20 said:

Hey no hard feelings. I'm sure you know more about Miura than most people. Just not as much as I do.
John @ Artisan Golf worked for Miura and designed the tournament blade. The Tournament blade is not ground from a shared blank and I never came close to saying that..wake up. The founder of Miura turned the Tournament blade into the baby blade with his knack for grinding and it doesn't take much extra grinding...there's only 3/32" difference in height/length. Add a barely wider hosel, sole, and muscle..plus a different toe grind template and it's done. That's 3 tooth picks to grind off so it shouldn't be that hard to believe. My information came from the original Miura and we had multiple conversations on this subject so there is no misunderstanding. I also own both models and it's obvious if you put them side by side which I'm doing now...there's barely any difference..the toe grind is the most noticeable.
Miura does not use molds which you referred to re putter models. I have no knowledge of different forging punches and dies for the putters you mentioned, but a putter is only 1 head. I hear they are $20,000 per die and then another $20k for the punch, so they can probably afford to make one for each putter. If you look at the cost to set things up for a new 2-pw FORGED iron model it's easy to see why a tiny company might elect to hand grind them out of another model especially when you have one of the most talented grinders in the world to do it.
Anyway I'm done with this subject and I'm not sure how I got this far into it. I started out by trying to help some cash strapped golfers realize there are less expensive ways to experience Miura forgings for the first time in order to find out if it's a good fit for them, and then my facts were challenged with assumptions. Francis no like.
I do not make many posts, but when I do I prefer to make accurate ones. Stay thirsty my friends.

Whether this is true or not of early BB, I don’t know (I can see them making a proof-of-concept amount this way). However, directly from Miura, TB and BB have separate dies.

BM, the MP14 claim was among those that sounded more than strange to me.

Bigmean · March 22, 2019

I hit a few 6 irons back to back last night in the sim with this in my mind. Here is all I can say on this. The mp14 has always never felt “mizuno soft” to me. Also, you don’t see “grain flow forging” on mp14s and 29s and I am going to guess probably incorrectly

That the 33s are first set with it? That’s all I got.

I find it highly, I want to day unlikely, but I will say surprising/interesting (because I am uninformed/casual fan regarding the club manufacturing biz) if in fact it was miura forged, and moreso I would love the whole background story on it. Hell, I would love to watch a documentary on the mp14 history miura or not.

Drexel64 · April 27, 2019

Any of the Miura experts have an opinion on the Molinari Callaway irons. Any thoughts on them being Miura based and if so what iron?

If_I_Could_Only_Putt · May 24, 2019

I remember hearing the original baby blade started as the tournament blade with some added grinding tweaks and a different hosel while having a sandwich at the pga show with some Miura people and their customer maybe 12 years ago. I believe it was the result of the owner tinkering in his shop which he likes to do. When Miura found out there was demand for a smaller blade and they could sell more than a handful of these sets it was just easier to make each model with separate dies . The 2 models don't look that different when you put them side by side but they are different enough because the baby blade feels a lot different...so it was a smart move. It's not exactly a new design there have been plenty of blades made that look nearly identical over the years. Most every blade is retro. It's just subtle changes that make it different from models made in the 1960 and 70's along with the extra care Miura puts into making everything.