Driver fitting - Callaway Epic

[pitchinwedge]

I hit both the Epic and Epic Sub-Zero at a golf shop yesterday. They impressed me enough to schedule a fitting for today with a Callaway specific fitter.

 

As the fitting session began, I felt I wasn't swinging the club as well as the day before and the ball flights showed it. Ball speeds were down and I was missing shots both ways. I really struggled to find any consistency. Fittings are not "golf" to me and I can never tell whether I'm going to be "on" or not.

 

Anyways, the bright side of having had a lot of driver fittings over the past 9 months is that I've been in this situation before. My G30LS was used as a baseline in every fitting. I think that makes it a reliable benchmark from which to assess the relative performance of a new club. Once we got into the meat of things, my G30LS established an average of 143mph ball speed, 16* launch, and 1900 spin. Again, ball speed lower than usual, but otherwise, not too far from historical norms.

 

(Combo #1)

First up was the non-SZ with the Pro 62 Green. The results were pretty good and the fitter was happy. We came back to this combo after trying the others, and one adjustment later, the final average was 148mph BS, 13* launch, and 2400 spin.

 

(Combo #2)

We tried the SZ with Pro 62 Green. I expected this combo to be really good. Not sure why but I just couldn't get the club to dance. Inconsistent strikes resulted in a measly 141.5mph BS, 17* launch, and 1500 spin. My hunch is the heavy weight was forward but didn't think to ask about it until the fitting was all over. I'll consider this left-over meat on the bone.

 

(Combo #3)

The other combo was the non-SZ with Rogue Max 65 . I struggled with this set-up and although the numbers are nearly identical to Combo #1, it clearly took more effort to get the results: 147mph BS, 13* launch, 2400 spin.

 

In previous fittings for the Titleist 917 and 2016 M1/M2, ball speeds were identical to the G30LS. Changes in club length and swing weight did not make any material difference. Zero gain, they were all the same. However, as you can tell from reading above, the Epic is clearly producing more ball speed. +5mph ball speed based solely on today's fitting, but from what I saw yesterday, I think there's even more to be had.

 

Which is why, even though I still had reservations about Combo #1, I have to give it a try. Mainly I'm concerned about two things: a) the loose feel of the shaft and b) the non-SZ head was spinning at 3000+ the day before. The Epic is in the bag for testing and I can't wait to get it out on the course.

 

To be continued...

 

 

[Peanut191]

We're the Pro Green and Rogue Max the only two shafts available during the test?

[pitchinwedge]

I think all the shafts Callaway offers were available. But to be honest, there really isn't anything on the list I'm dying to try, up charge or not. Also, the fitter was good. He already had an idea what would work based on my swing. Once we got the right numbers, there wasn't any point to chasing different shafts. The fitting served my purpose of getting a set-up that I know is, at the very least, a decent fit.

[SwingBlues]

Yeah, I would have opted for the T800 65gm for you 6.0. I thought the 6.0 would be too soft, but its pretty nice. Also, what I noticed with my SZ 9.0 is that changing the weight 12gm & 7 gm makes a bigger difference than adjusting the loft (-1, +1 or 2). Now, I suspect you have the 12gm and 2gm combo with the stock 45.5" so that could be a bigger difference moving the weight back & fro. Definitely go back and try the 12gm back in the rear, better forgiveness and a tad more spin. 1534 is low...very low, knuckle ball.

[pitchinwedge]

Fitters all want to see 2200+ spin for me but I think I'm used to playing 1800-2000, hehe. With spin that low, balls can fall out of the sky and inconsistencies tend to increase but the good shots go forever. :)

 

I hit the T800 yesterday but didnt think it fit my swing well. Not so much stiffness but felt quite boardy. I liked the Max over the HZRDUS.

 

Definitely want to give the SZ another try. Need to find the right situation that allows for a good variety of experimentation. Regular fittings won't cut it. I think the 12g weight must have been back yesterday. Just makes sense because I was at rock steady 2000 spin with the Max.

[SwingBlues]

Fitters all want to see 2200+ spin for me but I think I'm used to playing 1800-2000, hehe. With spin that low, balls can fall out of the sky and inconsistencies tend to increase but the good shots go forever. :)

 

I hit the T800 yesterday but didnt think it fit my swing well. Not so much stiffness but felt quite boardy. I liked the Max over the HZRDUS.

 

Definitely want to give the SZ another try. Need to find the right situation that allows for a good variety of experimentation. Regular fittings won't cut it. I think the 12g weight must have been back yesterday. Just makes sense because I was at rock steady 2000 spin with the Max.

 

look closely and you will see a miniscule "12" lettering on those mini weights. when do you think you'll have the 17 M1 shootout ready by?

 

 

good luck with the fitting, I think I found my shaft this evening, a handcrafted Hzrdus Yellow 65gm 6.5 (thanks mr.hicksta) :)

[pitchinwedge]

The biggest issue is the sliding weights for the M1 don't seem to be available. I probably will have a new shaft by the time I can find weights. Have a feeling the Epic's gonna keep me busy for a bit. All told, it might take a few weeks before I can do a head to head but hopefully less.

 

Congrats on the shaft btw!

[boycer]

WHat loft did you have the sz at? I hit it at the outdoor range with the pro green. It was better the the std with the rogue max both at 10.5*. Then I cranked the sz up to 12* and hit some bombs. I was really impressed. Tried the max in the sz and wasn't sure impressed.

[misplacedtexan83]

Fitters all want to see 2200+ spin for me but I think I'm used to playing 1800-2000, hehe. With spin that low, balls can fall out of the sky and inconsistencies tend to increase but the good shots go forever. :)

 

I hit the T800 yesterday but didnt think it fit my swing well. Not so much stiffness but felt quite boardy. I liked the Max over the HZRDUS.

 

Definitely want to give the SZ another try. Need to find the right situation that allows for a good variety of experimentation. Regular fittings won't cut it. I think the 12g weight must have been back yesterday. Just makes sense because I was at rock steady 2000 spin with the Max.

 

look closely and you will see a miniscule "12" lettering on those mini weights. when do you think you'll have the 17 M1 shootout ready by?

 

 

good luck with the fitting, I think I found my shaft this evening, a handcrafted Hzrdus Yellow 65gm 6.5 (thanks mr.hicksta) :)

 

Let me know how the Hzrdus yellow works out.. Trying to decide between it and Matrix Speed-Rulz..

 

I think all the shafts Callaway offers were available. But to be honest, there really isn't anything on the list I'm dying to try, up charge or not. Also, the fitter was good. He already had an idea what would work based on my swing. Once we got the right numbers, there wasn't any point to chasing different shafts. The fitting served my purpose of getting a set-up that I know is, at the very least, a decent fit.

 

Let us know how the combo work because on paper it stands out above the rest.. enjoy!

[GC70]

Nice review. No interest in the speeder Evo II or III ?

[pitchinwedge]

WHat loft did you have the sz at? I hit it at the outdoor range with the pro green. It was better the the std with the rogue max both at 10.5*. Then I cranked the sz up to 12* and hit some bombs. I was really impressed. Tried the max in the sz and wasn't sure impressed.

 

Have the 9* head - started at standard and ended up at 8*. SZ launched just a fraction lower. Would have been going the wrong way for me to increase loft. I think the issue with the SZ was the weight configuration. I don't think the fitting was poor, but perhaps it could have been more thorough as we didn't try a ton of combinations. Once I get some experience with the non-SZ, I'm sure I'll have a better understanding of how the MOI of the SZ differs.

[pitchinwedge]

Nice review. No interest in the speeder Evo II or III ?

 

Good call on the Speeders. I've hit them in the past. Evo's are great shafts but I prefer the feel of the old Speeder VC's.

 

Anyways, during the fitting I was having trouble releasing the club and getting the club to turn into the ball. My fitter was pretty adamant that anything with a stiffer tip, would likely make this worse. The Max pretty much proved this to be true. Specs aside, I had no real qualms with the Green other than the color of it's paint. I admit, however, there's definitely a part of me that still thinks I should, could, and absolutely must do better than a stock shaft. I know, it's silly. :swoon:

 

The truth shall be told once I hit the golf course.

 

 

PS - I don't think the fitter was correct about me not getting along with tip-stiff shafts. The shaft I've played the best with over the past month is the Kuro Kage Dual Core. Although there's no standard for measuring a shaft's torque, it's dawned on me that MRC advertises the KK at 4.4 torque and Fuji has the Green at 4.3. Coincidence? I think not.

[Howard_Jones]

I hit both the Epic and Epic Sub-Zero at a golf shop yesterday. They impressed me enough to schedule a fitting for today with a Callaway specific fitter.

 

As the fitting session began, I felt I wasn't swinging the club as well as the day before and the ball flights showed it. Ball speeds were down and I was missing shots both ways. I really struggled to find any consistency. Fittings are not "golf" to me and I can never tell whether I'm going to be "on" or not.

 

Anyways, the bright side of having had a lot of driver fittings over the past 9 months is that I've been in this situation before. My G30LS was used as a baseline in every fitting. I think that makes it a reliable benchmark from which to assess the relative performance of a new club. Once we got into the meat of things, my G30LS established an average of 143mph ball speed, 16* launch, and 1900 spin. Again, ball speed lower than usual, but otherwise, not too far from historical norms.

 

(Combo #1)

First up was the non-SZ with the Pro 62 Green. The results were pretty good and the fitter was happy. We came back to this combo after trying the others, and one adjustment later, the final average was 148mph BS, 13* launch, and 2400 spin.

 

(Combo #2)

We tried the SZ with Pro 62 Green. I expected this combo to be really good. Not sure why but I just couldn't get the club to dance. Inconsistent strikes resulted in a measly 141.5mph BS, 17* launch, and 1500 spin. My hunch is the heavy weight was forward but didn't think to ask about it until the fitting was all over. I'll consider this left-over meat on the bone.

 

(Combo #3)

The other combo was the non-SZ with Rogue Max 65 . I struggled with this set-up and although the numbers are nearly identical to Combo #1, it clearly took more effort to get the results: 147mph BS, 13* launch, 2400 spin.

 

In previous fittings for the Titleist 917 and 2016 M1/M2, ball speeds were identical to the G30LS. Changes in club length and swing weight did not make any material difference. Zero gain, they were all the same. However, as you can tell from reading above, the Epic is clearly producing more ball speed. +5mph ball speed based solely on today's fitting, but from what I saw yesterday, I think there's even more to be had.

 

Which is why, even though I still had reservations about Combo #1, I have to give it a try. Mainly I'm concerned about two things: a) the loose feel of the shaft and b) the non-SZ head was spinning at 3000+ the day before. The Epic is in the bag for testing and I can't wait to get it out on the course.

 

To be continued...

 

 

 

What club speed? 148 mph ball speed from 102.2.....thats a PTR of below 1.45, so we are not even close to a good fit, but with standard length shafts.....its a misuse of the word fitting....its a test of standard options, NOT club fitting.

[pitchinwedge]

I see your point Howard. This bothered me a bit as well. I'd have to say you're spot in in saying it was a test of standard options. Also the reason I feel there's more gains to be had.

 

Trackman and Flightscope I consistently report 1.49-1.50 smash when I'm using my Ping G30. This, plus what I see on-course, is why I think the Ping fits me well. Am I missing something with this?

[Howard_Jones]

I see your point Howard. This bothered me a bit as well. I'd have to say you're spot in in saying it was a test of standard options. Also the reason I feel there's more gains to be had.

 

Trackman and Flightscope I consistently report 1.49-1.50 smash when I'm using my Ping G30. This, plus what I see on-course, is why I think the Ping fits me well. Am I missing something with this?

 

Im not sure what launch monitor who was used, but on a Trackman, a PTR below 1.48 = bad dispersion on top of a lack of distance, so if your club speed is in the area of 102 mph, your potential is about 15 yards more carry from Combo #1, and its EASY to get you out there, so its a big shame so many still consider them self "Club fitters" when anyone can make it better on their own. All you got out of it, was finding the standard option with the least misfit among them, but again, its NOT club fitting.

[pitchinwedge]

Love it Howard, so well said!

 

[mattuop]

Fitters all want to see 2200+ spin for me but I think I'm used to playing 1800-2000, hehe. With spin that low, balls can fall out of the sky and inconsistencies tend to increase but the good shots go forever. :)

 

I hit the T800 yesterday but didnt think it fit my swing well. Not so much stiffness but felt quite boardy. I liked the Max over the HZRDUS.

 

Definitely want to give the SZ another try. Need to find the right situation that allows for a good variety of experimentation. Regular fittings won't cut it. I think the 12g weight must have been back yesterday. Just makes sense because I was at rock steady 2000 spin with the Max.

 

FWIW, we have similar numbers. With the sub zero and rogue max, I had ball speed of ~150mph, launch of 16* and spin 1600-1900. I'm sure most would say spin is low, but I feel like the high launch offsets it some. I've been very happy with it so far and have had no shots fall out of the sky.

 

I don't usually swing by best during fittings. Always swinging too hard or have too many swing thoughts. Get out of your head and let the club do its thing..... Easier said than done sometimes.

[pitchinwedge]

The cloud of excitement has lifted and I've been reflecting on my experience with the Epics over the past couple of days. I tried to recall the different set-ups, how each one felt, how I felt, and also consider the perhaps questionable LM data. In the end, there’s just no other way to put it... I have serious buyer's remorse.

 

Both Epic models had really impressed me the first time I hit them. The fitter recommended set-up, which I purchased, was decent but never gave me the same giddiness. I should thank Howard for pointing out the obvious, but my decision to buy was probably more objective and affected by the glow of the previous day's experience, rather than purely subjective and based on actual results. I have no other explain for why I ignored the previous day’s data. The more I thought about it, the more faults I found in the fitting, and the results didn’t make sense either. Dammit, this is really hard to admit, but I want to share it because I think a lot of us fall into this.

 

This morning, I looked back at the data from the first time I ever hit the Epic. The attached data is the SZ with Rogue Max as measured by GC2 with Bridgestone range balls. The fitting was done on GC2 w/HMT with Callaway Chrome Soft balls. Please let me know if I’m wrong, but IMO, the results were better all around the first day.

 

Fitter recommended:

 

147.7 ball speed, 13.1* launch, 2386 spin

 

First day hitting the Epic:

 

149.4 ball speed, 14.1* launch, 2149 Spin

 

The plan for now is to get back into the shop and compare head/shaft/settings again. Good thing the retailer has a great return/exchange policy.

 

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

Next time, take a lower grip, 45.50" is not for Golf, and bring your own gamer balls, and some lead tape

(my memory tells me you like it heavy down there)

Also bring a whitebord pen or some foot spray so you can keep track of impact spot.

Both ballspeed, launch angle and spin vary A LOT depending on impact spot.

 

I know that club fitters wants to sell, and they dont like that the customer takes control, but when they dont seems to realize that what they do is not beneficial for the player, they might need to learn a lesson.

 

PS.that LM report has a "fixed" PTR value so it cant be done using HMT camera with the CG2.

 

Remember to go by Weight, Feel and Dispersion, and pay attention to feel of shaft weight vs head weight, you should be able to feel both to be able to navigate the club right.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/909991-diy-driver-tune-up-diy-fitting/

[pitchinwedge]

Thanks for the advice Howard.

 

You're remembering correctly, I do like it heavier. That's one of the things that bugged me about the results. The two Epics didn't feel the same to me. Fitter told me the heads weigh the same. When I checked, the Callaway website lists the SZ is D4 and the non-SZ is D3. No way they are the same. So imagine if I choke down to 44.5" thats minus 6 SW points = C7? I'd need 12 grams of lead tape just to make up the difference or maybe 18g to get it where I'd probably like it. Crazy.

 

LM report, it was no HMT. Assuming ball speed, launch, and spin are somewhat accurate, I still think the results are better.

[Howard_Jones]

Thanks for the advice Howard.

 

You're remembering correctly, I do like it heavier. That's one of the things that bugged me about the results. The two Epics didn't feel the same to me. Fitter told me the heads weigh the same. When I checked, the Callaway website lists the SZ is D4 and the non-SZ is D3. No way they are the same. So imagine if I choke down to 44.5" thats minus 6 SW points = C7? I'd need 12 grams of lead tape just to make up the difference or maybe 18g to get it where I'd probably like it. Crazy.

 

LM report, it was no HMT. Assuming ball speed, launch, and spin are somewhat accurate, I still think the results are better.

 

Call them up front and ask if they have a exchangeable weight for the head who can be used during fitting.

I dont know the actual head and what options they offer, but that might be the way to go, if not just bring your own lead tape or similar.

[hurricanes7]

anyone try a oban as an option

[misplacedtexan83]

Thanks for the advice Howard.

 

You're remembering correctly, I do like it heavier. That's one of the things that bugged me about the results. The two Epics didn't feel the same to me. Fitter told me the heads weigh the same. When I checked, the Callaway website lists the SZ is D4 and the non-SZ is D3. No way they are the same. So imagine if I choke down to 44.5" thats minus 6 SW points = C7? I'd need 12 grams of lead tape just to make up the difference or maybe 18g to get it where I'd probably like it. Crazy.

 

LM report, it was no HMT. Assuming ball speed, launch, and spin are somewhat accurate, I still think the results are better.

 

Not all club fitters focus on sale and some focus on making sure the client gets fit for the best option with the materials they have. Unless you get fitted at Club Champion or something along those lines than we use what we are given i.e. fitting cart, etc.

 

Next time ask they should at least try and accommodate you. I had a fellow that wanted to try a sub 44in drive . So, I redneck what I had -- SZ with 2-12 gram weights, SZ 3 fw shaft Rogue Max 85x and a way we went.

 

Did the same thing with the standard head but 2-17 gram weights were too much.

 

The SZ version provided outstanding numbers across the board (trackman) that were consistent every swing. Guess what, he walked out without buying. Bummer but not my loss-- Im there to provide a service and one I do my best every time.

[misplacedtexan83]

anyone try a oban as an option

 

I know Warrick in the other thread has an Oban Hashimoto (similar to the Purple) and he planned on demoing them this weekend.

 

I need to get my adaptor on the same shaft and give it awhirl as well.

[pitchinwedge]

I pulled the trigger and exchanged the Epic. Chose to order the Sub Zero with Speeder 665. Hit em both again today and the Epic definitely had a tendency to spin. Not quite the 3000 I experienced the first time, but a good number of shots spun up 2700+. On the other hand, the SZ was a champ at controlling spin - very tight around 2100.

[misplacedtexan83]

I pulled the trigger and exchanged the Epic. Chose to order the Sub Zero with Speeder 665. Hit em both again today and the Epic definitely had a tendency to spin. Not quite the 3000 I experienced the first time, but a good number of shots spun up 2700+. On the other hand, the SZ was a champ at controlling spin - very tight around 2100.

 

Interesting choice with so many free upgrades options..

[GC70]

Haha SPEEDER!

[pitchinwedge]

Haha SPEEDER!

 

Yessir... like I said before, one of my fave shafts is the VC 6.2. Played it for years and I've also got a 565 Evo. Seems like the 665 (non Evo's) should be somewhere in between - very blueboard-esque and mid-mid. Hoping it will be a bit easier to turn over than the Max and feel smoother than the Pro. Also hoping I'm correct the standard 665 is not counterbalanced.

 

Edit: I've got a few other shafts in the arsenal. Just need to be certain I've got the right head befor I start with full on tweaking.

[GC70]

Haha SPEEDER!

 

Yessir... like I said before, one of my fave shafts is the VC 6.2. Played it for years and I've also got a 565 Evo. Seems like the 665 (non Evo's) should be somewhere in between - very blueboard-esque and mid-mid. Hoping it will be a bit easier to turn over than the Max and feel smoother than the Pro. Also hoping I'm correct the standard 665 is not counterbalanced.

 

Edit: I've got a few other shafts in the arsenal. Just need to be certain I've got the right head befor I start with full on tweaking.

 

Awesome! I've always liked and got along with almost all speeders. I have a 565 non Evo in a Callaway XR Pro that's just a long fairway finder. I have GD DI that I'll try out in Epic.