Sand Valley

[Waterball6]

I was up at Sand Valley this weekend, it was incredible. We took a group on 16 guys. As of right now, the place is still basically under constructions, no clubhouse or anything. They have a few cabins which we stayed in. Apparently they have a few more weeks until the clubhouse will be completed, but it's going to really be a special place.Right now, they only have 1 course open. The second is not too far behind, from my understanding they will have 6 holes open by the end of the year.

 

Here's a few pictures of the course they have open now!

 

 

[Stetson]

Looks excellent. This is what I want golf courses to look like, more so than house lined and tree lined. Bring Mother Nature as the leading element in design

[QMany]

Sand Valley looks incredible! I'm hoping to get up there later this summer.

[Voltron]

I played there in September for the "pre-opening". Maybe the most FUN course I have ever played... ever.

 

Can't wait to get back up there in June

[Phreddy]

There is a really nice article on the NY TImes web site under sports/golf on the geologic history of the land and the development of Sand Valley.

[Waterball6]

Yes, it's really good. I couldn't get over how someone could get in there and see that piece of land and turn it into that.

[DoubleorQuits]

Another C&C remote destination course, Streamsong seems so passé.

[mflores]

sweet pictures - place looks awesome. I am swinging up from Chicago 5/25-5/26. On day 2 they are letting us play the 6 holes on the 2nd course.

 

Since the clubhouse won;t be open while I am there (we are staying in one of the cottages) - where did you go to eat at night?

[Waterball6]

sweet pictures - place looks awesome. I am swinging up from Chicago 5/25-5/26. On day 2 they are letting us play the 6 holes on the 2nd course.

 

Since the clubhouse won;t be open while I am there (we are staying in one of the cottages) - where did you go to eat at night?

 

We stayed in the cottages right by the halfway house/first tee. We had dinner catered in each night by Sand Valley, it was awesome. I believe the only restaurant anywhere close is called the Dirty Oar Supper Club.

[mufan1]

I was up at Sand Valley this weekend, it was incredible. We took a group on 16 guys. As of right now, the place is still basically under constructions, no clubhouse or anything. They have a few cabins which we stayed in. Apparently they have a few more weeks until the clubhouse will be completed, but it's going to really be a special place.Right now, they only have 1 course open. The second is not too far behind, from my understanding they will have 6 holes open by the end of the year.

 

Here's a few pictures of the course they have open now!

 

 

What condition was it in? Could you tell it was new and still growing in, or was it in great shape? In other words, is it worth waiting a few months before going and playing it?

[Waterball6]

I was up at Sand Valley this weekend, it was incredible. We took a group on 16 guys. As of right now, the place is still basically under constructions, no clubhouse or anything. They have a few cabins which we stayed in. Apparently they have a few more weeks until the clubhouse will be completed, but it's going to really be a special place.Right now, they only have 1 course open. The second is not too far behind, from my understanding they will have 6 holes open by the end of the year.

 

Here's a few pictures of the course they have open now!

 

 

What condition was it in? Could you tell it was new and still growing in, or was it in great shape? In other words, is it worth waiting a few months before going and playing it?

 

Greens were fantastic, very slick. The fairways I'd say were like a 8/10, there were a few bare spots, but understandable being a brand new course. I think conditions were incredible for being such a new course and having little to no grow season yet up there. Obviously give it a few weeks and that will completely change, but I wouldn't say it would be a major difference waiting a few weeks.

[vallygolf]

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Bandon kind of perfected the remote destination trend. Forest Dunes added the loop, streamsong added the black, both are similar in the middle of nowhere destinations with really great courses. Forest dunes is great but too remote (sand valley is even more remote). Streamsong isnt quite as remote (just over an hour from Tampa), enjoyed the courses but it wasn't so amazing that I want to endure the travel to get back. Sand Valley (to be a national destination) is asking most patrons to drive three hours from Milwaukee. I am the exact demographic sand valley needs to thrive, and while I have a desire to go, unless these courses are out of this world there are simply too many exceptional accessible courses to attract my dollars. I may be proven wrong (which I would prefer), but I just dont see how this project can ever be a smashing success. It seems more like a Forest Dunes scenario where it never really can become what the developers are selling. Am I missing something? Are these courses THAT much better than streamsong? Or perhaps this development is not seeking to be a national destination.

[benkodi]

Another C&C remote destination course, Streamsong seems so passé.

 

It's passe until about November 1st when the snow starts flying in WI.

[AndrewS]

For anyone who likes podcasts - the golf.com podcast had Josh Lesnik from Kemper Sports on as a guest back in March. Was interesting to hear a few anecdotes about the development of courses like Bandon and Sand Valley, as well as his thoughts on golf courses generally these days.

[teejaywhy]

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Bandon kind of perfected the remote destination trend. Forest Dunes added the loop, streamsong added the black, both are similar in the middle of nowhere destinations with really great courses. Forest dunes is great but too remote (sand valley is even more remote). Streamsong isnt quite as remote (just over an hour from Tampa), enjoyed the courses but it wasn't so amazing that I want to endure the travel to get back. Sand Valley (to be a national destination) is asking most patrons to drive three hours from Milwaukee. I am the exact demographic sand valley needs to thrive, and while I have a desire to go, unless these courses are out of this world there are simply too many exceptional accessible courses to attract my dollars. I may be proven wrong (which I would prefer), but I just dont see how this project can ever be a smashing success. It seems more like a Forest Dunes scenario where it never really can become what the developers are selling. Am I missing something? Are these courses THAT much better than streamsong? Or perhaps this development is not seeking to be a national destination.

 

"They" told Keiser that Bandon would never work.

 

 

[VNutz]

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Bandon kind of perfected the remote destination trend. Forest Dunes added the loop, streamsong added the black, both are similar in the middle of nowhere destinations with really great courses. Forest dunes is great but too remote (sand valley is even more remote). Streamsong isnt quite as remote (just over an hour from Tampa), enjoyed the courses but it wasn't so amazing that I want to endure the travel to get back. Sand Valley (to be a national destination) is asking most patrons to drive three hours from Milwaukee. I am the exact demographic sand valley needs to thrive, and while I have a desire to go, unless these courses are out of this world there are simply too many exceptional accessible courses to attract my dollars. I may be proven wrong (which I would prefer), but I just dont see how this project can ever be a smashing success. It seems more like a Forest Dunes scenario where it never really can become what the developers are selling. Am I missing something? Are these courses THAT much better than streamsong? Or perhaps this development is not seeking to be a national destination.

 

I'm curious as to why you think Bandon is the perfect remote spot, being 4 hours from Portland, and several hours from other smaller airports, but Sand Valley being 3 hours from Milwaukee is too much?? There are other small airports in the area that one can fly into, much like people fly into North Bend. Madison is about 2 hours away, Milwaukee and Minneapolis both are larger airports around 3 hours away. Mosinee (Central Wisconsin) Airport is about an hour away, a little further but probably similar to North Bend airport.

 

Getting to Bandon is not exactly IMO, I just booked plans in November from Chicago, and they're coming on 20 years of operation. This is just beginning and it has IMO similar options for transportation, give it time to see if they can develop better or special routes to make it easier for travel, like they've done with direct flights to/from San Fran and Denver to North Bend. I don't think Sand Valley could ever live up to Bandon simply due to the location, but for Midwest golf it might become a destination play for many.

[vallygolf]

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Bandon kind of perfected the remote destination trend. Forest Dunes added the loop, streamsong added the black, both are similar in the middle of nowhere destinations with really great courses. Forest dunes is great but too remote (sand valley is even more remote). Streamsong isnt quite as remote (just over an hour from Tampa), enjoyed the courses but it wasn't so amazing that I want to endure the travel to get back. Sand Valley (to be a national destination) is asking most patrons to drive three hours from Milwaukee. I am the exact demographic sand valley needs to thrive, and while I have a desire to go, unless these courses are out of this world there are simply too many exceptional accessible courses to attract my dollars. I may be proven wrong (which I would prefer), but I just dont see how this project can ever be a smashing success. It seems more like a Forest Dunes scenario where it never really can become what the developers are selling. Am I missing something? Are these courses THAT much better than streamsong? Or perhaps this development is not seeking to be a national destination.

 

I'm curious as to why you think Bandon is the perfect remote spot, being 4 hours from Portland, and several hours from other smaller airports, but Sand Valley being 3 hours from Milwaukee is too much?? There are other small airports in the area that one can fly into, much like people fly into North Bend. Madison is about 2 hours away, Milwaukee and Minneapolis both are larger airports around 3 hours away. Mosinee (Central Wisconsin) Airport is about an hour away, a little further but probably similar to North Bend airport.

 

Getting to Bandon is not exactly IMO, I just booked plans in November from Chicago, and they're coming on 20 years of operation. This is just beginning and it has IMO similar options for transportation, give it time to see if they can develop better or special routes to make it easier for travel, like they've done with direct flights to/from San Fran and Denver to North Bend. I don't think Sand Valley could ever live up to Bandon simply due to the location, but for Midwest golf it might become a destination play for many.

 

 

I guess this is why I find this project so interesting. What is the threshold for success? Many on these boards have said bandon removed from the ocean would make it a ho hum destination. Im interested to see if has national appeal, and if in the end it plays like a links course, or like streamsong, cannot be played with a ground game. Bandon works because it is so unique, it has true links courses which we don't have in the US. (I think one in new england and Bandon and that is it).

Im rooting for sand valley to be a success, as well as golf in general. But as an investor I doubt this is a project I would lay it on the line for. Like I said before Im happy to be wrong.

[duffer987]

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Bandon kind of perfected the remote destination trend. Forest Dunes added the loop, streamsong added the black, both are similar in the middle of nowhere destinations with really great courses. Forest dunes is great but too remote (sand valley is even more remote). Streamsong isnt quite as remote (just over an hour from Tampa), enjoyed the courses but it wasn't so amazing that I want to endure the travel to get back. Sand Valley (to be a national destination) is asking most patrons to drive three hours from Milwaukee. I am the exact demographic sand valley needs to thrive, and while I have a desire to go, unless these courses are out of this world there are simply too many exceptional accessible courses to attract my dollars. I may be proven wrong (which I would prefer), but I just dont see how this project can ever be a smashing success. It seems more like a Forest Dunes scenario where it never really can become what the developers are selling. Am I missing something? Are these courses THAT much better than streamsong? Or perhaps this development is not seeking to be a national destination.

 

I'm curious as to why you think Bandon is the perfect remote spot, being 4 hours from Portland, and several hours from other smaller airports, but Sand Valley being 3 hours from Milwaukee is too much?? There are other small airports in the area that one can fly into, much like people fly into North Bend. Madison is about 2 hours away, Milwaukee and Minneapolis both are larger airports around 3 hours away. Mosinee (Central Wisconsin) Airport is about an hour away, a little further but probably similar to North Bend airport.

 

Getting to Bandon is not exactly IMO, I just booked plans in November from Chicago, and they're coming on 20 years of operation. This is just beginning and it has IMO similar options for transportation, give it time to see if they can develop better or special routes to make it easier for travel, like they've done with direct flights to/from San Fran and Denver to North Bend. I don't think Sand Valley could ever live up to Bandon simply due to the location, but for Midwest golf it might become a destination play for many.

 

 

I guess this is why I find this project so interesting. What is the threshold for success? Many on these boards have said bandon removed from the ocean would make it a ho hum destination. Im interested to see if has national appeal, and if in the end it plays like a links course, or like streamsong, cannot be played with a ground game. Bandon works because it is so unique, it has true links courses which we don't have in the US. (I think one in new england and Bandon and that is it).

Im rooting for sand valley to be a success, as well as golf in general. But as an investor I doubt this is a project I would lay it on the line for. Like I said before Im happy to be wrong.

 

Agree with your humming and hawing :) Me and my golf travel mates have talked about the same things. What makes a 'golf only destination' work and when will we hit 'peak golf only destinations' and did that just happen with Sand Valley?

 

One friend has played Streamsong, while kind of in the neighbourhood at Disney and said it was fun and nice and all, but wouldn't rush back. I'm not a Florida fan and even though I've never been there I prefer return trips to Bandon and Kohler and even Northern Michigan over going to that new spot.

 

We went to Prairie Club last May and it was a proper hike, fly into Denver and drive drive drive. And due to that remoteness, we'd not go back anytime soon without also working in a Sand Hills or Ballyneal round.

 

But when it comes to Bandon we have no reservations (well we have reservations already for Nov, ba-dum-tish) because it is a genuine linksland experience. It's not faux links like the others, it's the proper dark dirt, firm, roll out conditions you'd get teeing it up in the UK/Ireland. Over and above any sentimentality or proximity to the ocean, it is playing links golf that is the main draw for us.

 

With the exception of Cabot, none of these destination courses can provide that. So once you make one or two trips, do they still have that je ne sais quoi to keep the punters coming back?

[Waterball6]

Yes, I get exactly what everyone is saying as far as a remote golf destination. However, I do believe this could be the Bandon of the Midwest. It has everything one really wants if you're going with a group to just play golf. It will be much more appealing once they have multiple courses plus the par 3 course. The accommodations were wonderful, completely setup for a great guys golf trip. We were fortunate enough to get a tour of the clubhouse which was still under heavy construction, but it's scheduled to be completed June 1.

 

I understand it's a ways from everything, but it's only about a 3 1/2hr ride from O'hare which with 16 guys felt like nothing, so it wasn't bad. We had a company called infinitiy transportation that took us up there in a nice bus. It worked out great.

 

I guess only time will tell if it takes off. I really hope it does, because it's one heck of a piece of property.

[BirdieRoll]

Don't forget, too, that the popular Wisconsin Dells is just an hour south of Sand Valley. I have a feeling on many a family vacation, dads might sneak up there for a round or two. I suspect that might be my plan of attack a couple of years from now.

 

Also, don't forget that Sand Valley is an easy drive from the Twin Cities, too. A lot of those golfers who may have played the northern Minnesota courses are going to be interested in a new golf trip.

[snowdayz]

Great pics, thanks for sharing!!

 

The place looks amazing. For me I would enjoy going there once both the courses are fully open.

 

Wisconsin is becoming a nice little hot bed of championship golf. Throw in Sand Valley, Erin Hills and the courses at Kohler and you could have a good little golf trip going on there!

[tjblue]

Would love to play but the knee says no to walking 18..sad.

[nogopehrs]

Would love to play but the knee says no to walking 18..sad.

 

Carts are allowed for medical conditions, but I don't know how they could get near some of the greens and tee boxes.

[Stetson]

Yes, I get exactly what everyone is saying as far as a remote golf destination. However, I do believe this could be the Bandon of the Midwest. It has everything one really wants if you're going with a group to just play golf. It will be much more appealing once they have multiple courses plus the par 3 course. The accommodations were wonderful, completely setup for a great guys golf trip. We were fortunate enough to get a tour of the clubhouse which was still under heavy construction, but it's scheduled to be completed June 1.

 

I understand it's a ways from everything, but it's only about a 3 1/2hr ride from O'hare which with 16 guys felt like nothing, so it wasn't bad. We had a company called infinitiy transportation that took us up there in a nice bus. It worked out great.

 

I guess only time will tell if it takes off. I really hope it does, because it's one heck of a piece of property.

 

The proximity to civilization is such that they may be able to survive and prosper. Prairie Club in Nebraska has 2 courses on the top 100 list, plus a really cool/unique Horse course... but Valentine Nebraska is not a short drive to any airport or major metro area and will limit the number of rounds that can be played. That being said it is a special experience when you can get off the main path, lose cell phone coverage and just enjoy a natural golf course and landscape, whether it is in the Midwest, BFE Oregon or someplace else.

[jerebear21]

dang, got to look into this; kind of look like pine valley 100 years ago before trees grew in.

[zer0]

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. Bandon kind of perfected the remote destination trend. Forest Dunes added the loop, streamsong added the black, both are similar in the middle of nowhere destinations with really great courses. Forest dunes is great but too remote (sand valley is even more remote). Streamsong isnt quite as remote (just over an hour from Tampa), enjoyed the courses but it wasn't so amazing that I want to endure the travel to get back. Sand Valley (to be a national destination) is asking most patrons to drive three hours from Milwaukee. I am the exact demographic sand valley needs to thrive, and while I have a desire to go, unless these courses are out of this world there are simply too many exceptional accessible courses to attract my dollars. I may be proven wrong (which I would prefer), but I just dont see how this project can ever be a smashing success. It seems more like a Forest Dunes scenario where it never really can become what the developers are selling. Am I missing something? Are these courses THAT much better than streamsong? Or perhaps this development is not seeking to be a national destination.

 

I think what is going to help is the allure of coming to the state of Wisconsin for golf. Its not just Sand Valley, but you can also include a trip to Kohler as well as stops in between at Erin Hills and/or Lawsonia and turn it into a epic state wide golf trip that few places in the USA can match.

 

And Wisconsin in the summer is an amazing place to vacation.

[QMany]

I'm most excited about Sand Valley because of the proximity to us Midwesterners. I loved my trip to Bandon Dunes, but travel is expensive with multiple flights and rental cars, and it is pretty much an entire travel day each way. Even though Sand Valley is an 8-hour drive for me, I can do that in a half-day and save hundreds of dollars. I can also make a long-weekend out of Sand Valley, where Bandon seemed like a necessary 5+ day trip because of the two long travel days.

[duffer987]

I'm most excited about Sand Valley because of the proximity to us Midwesterners. I loved my trip to Bandon Dunes, but travel is expensive with multiple flights and rental cars, and it is pretty much an entire travel day each way. Even though Sand Valley is an 8-hour drive for me, I can do that in a half-day and save hundreds of dollars. I can also make a long-weekend out of Sand Valley, where Bandon seemed like a necessary 5+ day trip because of the two long travel days.

 

Yup. So what is the population base within 8hrs of Sand Valley? That covers the Bay Area up to Seattle for Bandon.

And to your point, my trips from the Bay Area were leave lunchtime, arrive somewhere near the Oregon/Cal border and stop for dinner and stay the night. Make morning teetime in Bandon next day. For returning, it's a loooooooong drive, but again, no need to worry about anything else.

 

That said, unless you really live in a remote outpost* and are going to another remote outpost, it's only 1/2 day to get there from most points in the US.

 

*This no way implies you live in a remote outpost ;)

[QMany]

Yup. So what is the population base within 8hrs of Sand Valley? That covers the Bay Area up to Seattle for Bandon.

According to some tool I found on Google, population within 500 miles:

• Bandon, Oregon = 27,598,510
  
• Nekoosa, Wisconsin = 66,149,650
  

:D

[duffer987]

Yup. So what is the population base within 8hrs of Sand Valley? That covers the Bay Area up to Seattle for Bandon.

According to some tool I found on Google, population within 500 miles:

• Bandon, Oregon = 27,598,510
  
• Nekoosa, Wisconsin = 66,149,650
  

:D

 

 

Neat. Nice find!

I guess there are a lot of large metropolitan areas South and East of Chicago, I hadn't really thought of as being within driving distance, but there ya go.