Do you need to be flexible to hit it far?

[vgidda]

Might not need to be flexible, but it can't hurt.

[MPStrat]

To hit it far and straight, absolutely.

If you haven't felt torqued to the max (really stretched out) at the top of a backswing, then you haven't taken it far enough back to know what the tour pros do regularly.

 

That, in my opinion, is why the average (no lessons random guy) Joe has such a problem learning a swing. They watch tour pros and try to mimic those positions. Tour pros EARN those top of the backswing positions by being able to rotate their chests far enough to achieve them.

 

Everyone else throws their arms into the same position without the proper coil of the torso. That's why you see out of sync turns and arm run-off, collapsed left arms, and the rest.

 

That's why golf coaches looking to score a buck have to teach these guys to flap their arms at it from the top. Those arms have to speed up to get back down into somewhere near a decent position to square the face.

 

If the average person took the club back as far as they REALLY could in sync, there would be a ton of 9-10 o'clock full swings, and results would most likely be much better.

 

This is completely false. Flexibility might contribute to about 10% of overall distance. I don't feel stretched at all, not flexible at all.

 

Yah, just complete nonsense. Plenty of us have the flexibility of someone in an old folks home yet can still bomb it. It's like saying that muscle = distance.

 

Again, flexibility contributes but give or take 10%. Prove me wrong. I'm not flexible relative to most.

 

Would you agree that the guy who turns 65* with arm overrun club past parallel is going to see big gains of distance and accuracy if he learns to hit 90* with arms in sync with the turn?

[thejazzmarauder]

To hit it far and straight, absolutely.

If you haven't felt torqued to the max (really stretched out) at the top of a backswing, then you haven't taken it far enough back to know what the tour pros do regularly.

 

That, in my opinion, is why the average (no lessons random guy) Joe has such a problem learning a swing. They watch tour pros and try to mimic those positions. Tour pros EARN those top of the backswing positions by being able to rotate their chests far enough to achieve them.

 

Everyone else throws their arms into the same position without the proper coil of the torso. That's why you see out of sync turns and arm run-off, collapsed left arms, and the rest.

 

That's why golf coaches looking to score a buck have to teach these guys to flap their arms at it from the top. Those arms have to speed up to get back down into somewhere near a decent position to square the face.

 

If the average person took the club back as far as they REALLY could in sync, there would be a ton of 9-10 o'clock full swings, and results would most likely be much better.

 

This is completely false. Flexibility might contribute to about 10% of overall distance. I don't feel stretched at all, not flexible at all.

 

Yah, just complete nonsense. Plenty of us have the flexibility of someone in an old folks home yet can still bomb it. It's like saying that muscle = distance.

 

Again, flexibility contributes but give or take 10%. Prove me wrong. I'm not flexible relative to most.

 

Would you agree that the guy who turns 65* with arm overrun club past parallel is going to see big gains of distance and accuracy if he learns to hit 90* with arms in sync with the turn?

 

That's true if we're talking about someone who is physically limited to a 65* turn and can increase mobility enough to get to 90*. To be fair, that's like going from a 15-inch vertical to jumping 30-inches; in most cases, whatever is causing someone to be so ground-bound will significantly limit their potential for improvement.

 

Not very many people can add 25* of rotation by increasing flexibility.

[TB07]

To hit it far and straight, absolutely.

If you haven't felt torqued to the max (really stretched out) at the top of a backswing, then you haven't taken it far enough back to know what the tour pros do regularly.

 

That, in my opinion, is why the average (no lessons random guy) Joe has such a problem learning a swing. They watch tour pros and try to mimic those positions. Tour pros EARN those top of the backswing positions by being able to rotate their chests far enough to achieve them.

 

Everyone else throws their arms into the same position without the proper coil of the torso. That's why you see out of sync turns and arm run-off, collapsed left arms, and the rest.

 

That's why golf coaches looking to score a buck have to teach these guys to flap their arms at it from the top. Those arms have to speed up to get back down into somewhere near a decent position to square the face.

 

If the average person took the club back as far as they REALLY could in sync, there would be a ton of 9-10 o'clock full swings, and results would most likely be much better.

 

This is completely false. Flexibility might contribute to about 10% of overall distance. I don't feel stretched at all, not flexible at all.

 

Yah, just complete nonsense. Plenty of us have the flexibility of someone in an old folks home yet can still bomb it. It's like saying that muscle = distance.

 

Again, flexibility contributes but give or take 10%. Prove me wrong. I'm not flexible relative to most.

 

Would you agree that the guy who turns 65* with arm overrun club past parallel is going to see big gains of distance and accuracy if he learns to hit 90* with arms in sync with the turn?

 

In 90% of ppl flexibility is not causing a 65 degree turn.

[MPStrat]

 

In 90% of ppl flexibility is not causing a 65 degree turn.

 

I agree. What I took from Jurrs post is that many amateurs don't know what it's like to make a good turn. They think they have a flexibility issue, but they just don't know how to do it. To them it's going to feel like a huge stretch

[TB07]

 

In 90% of ppl flexibility is not causing a 65 degree turn.

 

I agree. What I took from Jurrs post is that many amateurs don't know what it's like to make a good turn. They think they have a flexibility issue, but they just don't know how to do it. To them it's going to feel like a huge stretch

 

Agree with most but when done properly doesn't feel like a huge stretch.

[MeikoKaji]

Personally, I think that the real speed comes from the correct unhinging of the wrists in the transition/down swing. It seems that all other things - speed of hands, speed of hip turn, speed of shoulder turn - can be performed by an average, reasonably athletic person?

i think anybody can have pro quality hand speed. but, i believe my power is not from speed per se but the fact that i have little or no compensations while everything keeps moving. for example, my thighs roll over then roll back so does my forearms while my shoulders keep moving. if any of those rolled in or didn't roll enough, the momentum stops and the hands have to do something. the minute the hands try to take over the speed goes down dramatically.

[MeikoKaji]

also, i think people are different. you have to find your power. my friend is 5'5", 100lbs Japanese gal but she hits the ball 240y. single digit from the men's tees. in reality she is so straight that she out drives most guys. swing appears slow. she always gets asked how she can hit the ball so far. her answer is to have people grab her arm at the bicep. it's an exaggeration but she says she has absolutely no muscles so the power is simply a swing with zero resistance. interesting topic to explore. i think the very low spin is an important part of that (the straightness = max distance).

[PJ72]

For how much they talk about how long Rahm is, it's WILD to see he's only 56th in clubhead speed.

 

His max clubhead speed YTD is 119MPH, for reference that's the average of Alexander Noren.

Yes, but they're all bunched up at that speed. If he increased by 1mph, he'd probably jump up 20 places.

 

Perhaps he hits it purer and squarer than those of similar speed?

[jurr80]

To hit it far and straight, absolutely.

If you haven't felt torqued to the max (really stretched out) at the top of a backswing, then you haven't taken it far enough back to know what the tour pros do regularly.

 

That, in my opinion, is why the average (no lessons random guy) Joe has such a problem learning a swing. They watch tour pros and try to mimic those positions. Tour pros EARN those top of the backswing positions by being able to rotate their chests far enough to achieve them.

 

Everyone else throws their arms into the same position without the proper coil of the torso. That's why you see out of sync turns and arm run-off, collapsed left arms, and the rest.

 

That's why golf coaches looking to score a buck have to teach these guys to flap their arms at it from the top. Those arms have to speed up to get back down into somewhere near a decent position to square the face.

 

If the average person took the club back as far as they REALLY could in sync, there would be a ton of 9-10 o'clock full swings, and results would most likely be much better.

 

This is completely false. Flexibility might contribute to about 10% of overall distance. I don't feel stretched at all, not flexible at all.

Read the first sentence. What did it say?

Far and straight.

 

Yeah, anyone can take it back and flop their arms past their turn, then go nuts slinging the club across their body, steep as hell, flashing their arms over, and pound the ball a long way...........

 

.....a long way right then left then right then left.

 

You have to put such an active force on your arms that way, just to get the arms in position to come anywhere close to squaring the face. And that's where angles are lost and people stand up out of every shot.

 

Premature loss of angles...casting from the top...arm straightening early...gotta make room...goat hump....pelvic thrusting at the ball instead of the target.

 

 

[jurr80]

And I didn't even get into the best part of it.

So, you have two choices.

 

A. Stretch your body out with a full turn and keep the arms synced up. Let the turn combined with maintained width act on the club to shallow it.

 

B. Make an armsy, disconnected backswing that feels great at the top (no stretch). Let the arms collapse or run by the turn because the torso stopped turning back. Forcefully reroute the club back into position by pulling down or prematurely casting. Then whine about being steep and taking massive divots. Then watch any YouTube video you can about pro golfers and how they all come in shallow because they throw their arms at the ball with the trail elbow leading. Try to manufacture that position in rehearsals all day long, yet you can't do it when the ball is in front of you.

 

Or....get a tight turn (stretch) and let that stuff happen naturally (as long as the club face is taken care of via grip).

[Golfbeat]

So the way John Rahm sets his wrists in the back swing and releases them in the down swing has nothing to do with it? It all depends on how stretched or not stretched somebody is in the back swing? I don't buy that.

[chrisgilly09]

Ya thats quite the hill to die on

[Petunia Sprinkle]

So the way John Rahm sets his wrists in the back swing and releases them in the down swing has nothing to do with it? It all depends on how stretched or not stretched somebody is in the back swing? I don't buy that.

 

Rahm's not someone I think of as a particularly wristy player.

[jslane57]

Flexibility being seen as the way to get power is to be missing a little to what power is. Flexibility is one way to gain club head speed, and if lacking power, a very good alternative. Think heavyweight boxer. A knockout punch is power, and not power gained by flexibility. Golf at its most beautiful combines the two, but neither trumps the other...or maybe power does.

[MPStrat]

Martin Hall had a segment the other night about how different body types tend to generate power. He said ectomorphs generally use their flexibility or as he put it "length of arc" as their main source of power. He cited Bubba, Phil and DJ as examples. I don't think it's that simple, but it was interesting.

[TB07]

To hit it far and straight, absolutely.

If you haven't felt torqued to the max (really stretched out) at the top of a backswing, then you haven't taken it far enough back to know what the tour pros do regularly.

 

That, in my opinion, is why the average (no lessons random guy) Joe has such a problem learning a swing. They watch tour pros and try to mimic those positions. Tour pros EARN those top of the backswing positions by being able to rotate their chests far enough to achieve them.

 

Everyone else throws their arms into the same position without the proper coil of the torso. That's why you see out of sync turns and arm run-off, collapsed left arms, and the rest.

 

That's why golf coaches looking to score a buck have to teach these guys to flap their arms at it from the top. Those arms have to speed up to get back down into somewhere near a decent position to square the face.

 

If the average person took the club back as far as they REALLY could in sync, there would be a ton of 9-10 o'clock full swings, and results would most likely be much better.

 

This is completely false. Flexibility might contribute to about 10% of overall distance. I don't feel stretched at all, not flexible at all.

Read the first sentence. What did it say?

Far and straight.

 

Yeah, anyone can take it back and flop their arms past their turn, then go nuts slinging the club across their body, steep as hell, flashing their arms over, and pound the ball a long way...........

 

.....a long way right then left then right then left.

 

You have to put such an active force on your arms that way, just to get the arms in position to come anywhere close to squaring the face. And that's where angles are lost and people stand up out of every shot.

 

Premature loss of angles...casting from the top...arm straightening early...gotta make room...goat hump....pelvic thrusting at the ball instead of the target.

 

And your first sentence is wrong. You can hit it far and straight without feeling stretched to the max. Again, using myself as just one of many examples.

[TB07]

Just because you aren't stretched to the max doesn't mean your arms are flopping or have overrun. They can be synced just fine without stretching to the max with lots of flexibility.

[Z1ggy16]

For how much they talk about how long Rahm is, it's WILD to see he's only 56th in clubhead speed.

 

His max clubhead speed YTD is 119MPH, for reference that's the average of Alexander Noren.

That's actually quite interesting. What's he rank in average drive distance? I'm going to assume from watching on TV he's probably better than 56th. To me that's saying he's truly optimized his gear (club head, shaft profile) but his strike is probably almost perfect, almost always. Meaning, he might mishit by a little bit every now and then, but by far and large he's getting smash of 1.50 virtually 100% of the time.

 

Somebody with a body type like his (and say JB) do much better with shorter swings. The more medium build, thicker dudes, will generate all the power from having a ridiculously quick transition, and tons of speed from the body. A guy like DJ, needs a long arcing swing to generate his club head speed because he himself is long and lanky.

[pinhigh27]

Martin Hall had a segment the other night about how different body types tend to generate power. He said ectomorphs generally use their flexibility or as he put it "length of arc" as their main source of power. He cited Bubba, Phil and DJ as examples. I don't think it's that simple, but it was interesting.

 

that makes 0 sense and somatotypes aren't real

[MPStrat]

Martin Hall had a segment the other night about how different body types tend to generate power. He said ectomorphs generally use their flexibility or as he put it "length of arc" as their main source of power. He cited Bubba, Phil and DJ as examples. I don't think it's that simple, but it was interesting.

 

that makes 0 sense and somatotypes aren't real

 

I think he was using them to label stereotypical body types, in this case long and skinny, not really saying everyone fits the label perfectly. But yeah, it's not that simple

[Boris2016]

It has nothing to do with flexibility, has nothing to do with biomechics, it has everything to do with hand eye coordination. Lessons can help to a point, flexibility can help to a point, it comes down to hand eye coordination and this is something that you are all in denial about.

 

The other day at my club, a single joined our group. He was in his 70s, he was way over weight and pretty much a slob, and he was constantly short of breath. He later told us he had emphysema. I figured this guy could not even pick up a golf club, let alone swing one. He shot a 78 from the blues (6200 yards), and a number of drives were over 250 yards. I was amazed, I asked him what his secret was, he had none, and said he never took a lesson. I have a brother in law that plays several times a year, goes from his car to the first tee, never practices, has no understanding of all the biomechanical fiction out there, and he shoots high 70s/low 80s every time. It is about hand to eye coordination, either you have it or you don't, or have it to various degrees. Surely. many of you know people like this, that play so well with physical limitations or little practice, that is because they have great hand/eye coordination and hours on the range, buying the latest club or swing aid, and watching endless videos will give you nothing but false hope and maybe a realxing way to spend a few hours, that is it!

 

You have all these gurus selling their goods, well good for them, they have to feed themselves and their family. They are in the same league as faith healers. You can do flexibility exercises till the cows come home, that sure can't hurt, but it still comes down to hand/eye coordination. Once you accept that, the game becomes a lot of fun. You realize what you have, you play with it, and you accept the gifts or limitations you have.

[MPStrat]

It has nothing to do with flexibility, has nothing to do with biomechics, it has everything to do with hand eye coordination. Lessons can help to a point, flexibility can help to a point, it comes down to hand eye coordination and this is something that you are all in denial about.

 

The other day at my club, a single joined our group. He was in his 70s, he was way over weight and pretty much a slob, and he was constantly short of breath. He later told us he had emphysema. I figured this guy could not even pick up a golf club, let alone swing one. He shot a 78 from the blues (6200 yards), and a number of drives were over 250 yards. I was amazed, I asked him what his secret was, he had none, and said he never took a lesson. I have a brother in law that plays several times a year, goes from his car to the first tee, never practices, has no understanding of all the biomechanical fiction out there, and he shoots high 70s/low 80s every time. It is about hand to eye coordination, either you have it or you don't, or have it to various degrees. Surely. many of you know people like this, that play so well with physical limitations or little practice, that is because they have great hand/eye coordination and hours on the range, buying the latest club or swing aid, and watching endless videos will give you nothing but false hope and maybe a realxing way to spend a few hours, that is it!

 

You have all these gurus selling their goods, well good for them, they have to feed themselves and their family. They are in the same league as faith healers. You can do flexibility exercises till the cows come home, that sure can't hurt, but it still comes down to hand/eye coordination. Once you accept that, the game becomes a lot of fun. You realize what you have, you play with it, and you accept the gifts or limitations you have.

 

So when someone changes a body movement and starts hitting it in the center of the face every time, did their hand eye coordination miraculously get better?

[Petunia Sprinkle]

It has nothing to do with flexibility, has nothing to do with biomechics, it has everything to do with hand eye coordination. Lessons can help to a point, flexibility can help to a point, it comes down to hand eye coordination and this is something that you are all in denial about.

 

The other day at my club, a single joined our group. He was in his 70s, he was way over weight and pretty much a slob, and he was constantly short of breath. He later told us he had emphysema. I figured this guy could not even pick up a golf club, let alone swing one. He shot a 78 from the blues (6200 yards), and a number of drives were over 250 yards. I was amazed, I asked him what his secret was, he had none, and said he never took a lesson. I have a brother in law that plays several times a year, goes from his car to the first tee, never practices, has no understanding of all the biomechanical fiction out there, and he shoots high 70s/low 80s every time. It is about hand to eye coordination, either you have it or you don't, or have it to various degrees. Surely. many of you know people like this, that play so well with physical limitations or little practice, that is because they have great hand/eye coordination and hours on the range, buying the latest club or swing aid, and watching endless videos will give you nothing but false hope and maybe a realxing way to spend a few hours, that is it!

 

You have all these gurus selling their goods, well good for them, they have to feed themselves and their family. They are in the same league as faith healers. You can do flexibility exercises till the cows come home, that sure can't hurt, but it still comes down to hand/eye coordination. Once you accept that, the game becomes a lot of fun. You realize what you have, you play with it, and you accept the gifts or limitations you have.

 

I kind of agree. I think most people are capable of hitting a ball with more speed than they do. They just get mired in an orthodoxy that keeps them from taking a decent swipe at it. If they'd just swing like they sneeze, half their problems would vanish.

[oukeith]

So what Boris is trying to say is that some people are blessed with more natural talent than others.

 

Never would have guessed.

[northgolf]

Well, my take is the speed guys all talk about the stretch/shorten cycle and the more flexible you are the greater greater range of motion necessary to complete the stretch cycle and that brings up the question of what leverage you have when the range of motion is greater vs. the longer time you have to accelerate before you hit the ball. This leaves out the question of: can you control a "loose/flexible" swing (keyword is swing, a loose hit is a lost ball without question).

 

At this point, I'm verklempt: discuss.

[Obee]

Two words: Fast Twitch

 

Is that term still used?

[Petunia Sprinkle]

Two words: Fast Twitch

 

Is that term still used?

 

I prefer 'jumpy', for golf.

[PureStrikes54]

Absolutely not the most critical factor but I think you have to have some level of flexibility to get the maximum out of your bodies distance potential. There's a video of Ernie talking about some photos butch has posted of Tiger in his prime and his swing positions and Ernie Els (whose unreal flexible in his own right) being just blown away. There also used to be some stretching machine the tour used and Tiger maxing it out without even trying. Just way more examples of guys hitting it long that have it that don't.

 

Here's some anecdotal evidence from a tour pro.

 

[Larry111]

also, i think people are different. you have to find your power. my friend is 5'5", 100lbs Japanese gal but she hits the ball 240y. single digit from the men's tees. in reality she is so straight that she out drives most guys. swing appears slow. she always gets asked how she can hit the ball so far. her answer is to have people grab her arm at the bicep. it's an exaggeration but she says she has absolutely no muscles so the power is simply a swing with zero resistance. interesting topic to explore. i think the very low spin is an important part of that (the straightness = max distance).

 

How to eliminate resistance from the swing would be a good topic to explore. A lot of us are our own worst enemy when it comes to letting the club head swing freely.

 

PS: I'm a fan of Mike Austin's and he would say that the club head would go faster and the ball would go straighter if we didn't impede the club head through impact.