Golf Course Superintendent Ready to Answer Any Questions You May Have

[BNGL]

BNGL, we have a local super, I have a lot of respect for the guy. He was hired before grow in, by a big name designer, he's been at the same course for more than twenty years. I once sent the designer a question about the layout and he basically deferred to the super so he said, "knows more about that golf course than any man living." BUT (there's always a but) - BUT - the course was purchased out of foreclosure a few years ago by a wealthy retiree. For some reason, between the two of them, they over water the snot out of this place. All complaints fall on deaf ears. It seems from the super's point of view there's no such thing as too much water. We had a biblical wind storm last week. I went out and played this layout at the tail end of this storm. It was the best I've ever seen the place. The wind had dried out everything but the lowest places. The greens putted well (not a lot of spike marks during a storm, and this place gets a TON of play). So, what's an effective way to encourage these guys to embrace the "brown?" We all remember the brownie frownie, but in golf this simply isn't the case! We want brown! We need brown!

 

When you get you managers to stop embracing green in the cash registers. Managers and owners will bend to the dollar, so the change has to come front the golfers, their/our perception must be brown is great! It’s happening though slowly, look at some of the premier golf resorts; Bandon, Erin Hills, Streamsong. Can they be brilliant green? Yes they can, but they can also change to tanner tints. (Which is great because you get a totally different course!).

 

 

 

[BNGL]

Interesting, this discussion on water is

 

 

 

 

I know that I'm nothing but an old fart around here, but some insight from the past.

 

It was common in the not too distant past for some courses to be required to take treated waste water ("grey" water, if you will) for any number of reasons.

 

Whether or not they could use the water, these courses were required to take so many million gallons of this effluent water that sometimes, all they could do was to pump it out on the course/driving range/common areas.

 

While this water was a boon during dry times, meaning that the course had access to some irrigation source other than running pumps into wells that may or may not be viable any longer (another discussion for another time)...when fresh water was plentiful, these courses still had to take the water CONTRACTUALLY.....

 

 

SORRY FOR THE INTERRUPTION - FAT FINGERS POSTED TOO QUICKLY -----

 

What I was trying to get at was this:

 

If you, as a golf course entity, contractually agreed to take 4 million gallons of water/month - even if it rained every day of the month, you would still need to accept that water.

 

Where you could store it became touchy, as treated effluent could not mix with fresh water sources.

 

So, even if you sprayed it out in your irrigation system, you needed to make sure it didn't directly run off into fresh water areas.

 

But, more importantly, your retaining ponds could never overflow, and threaten to infiltrate fresh water ponds.

 

Hope this gives a bit of insight into possible reasons that particular courses "overwater"

 

Excellent points!

[howellhandmade]

When and why might it be advantageous to keep a golf course mushy-wet? My Saturday group plays a course that is a great design, but is watered so much that we conclude they get paid to use water. If it has rained for three days they'll be watering on the fourth. On many holes we aim for the rough because they don't water it and the ball won't plug there. It has been a wet summer here; I don't understand why you'd water quicksand. The owner and the super both shrug off complaints. I read here that too much water kills and invites disease. The course doesn't seem diseased or dying, but I can't remember the last time I found a drive more than a couple feet from its ball mark. What are we golfers missing?

 

I haven’t the slightest clue. I haven’t read or been told anything to that extent, nor maintained anything like that. There could be some high clay soils, or just mismanagement of the water program. When you stay really wet, you have no roots, fosters disease, and lacks something called playability (which is the most important thing). But going drier is hard to maintain as well, because it’s a seesaw and you need to stay in balance.

 

That’s unfortunate that your management team won’t answer your questions.

 

That's my observation; no roots. I fell on my butt twice this summer on not-terribly-severe grades when the grass under my foot sheared off of the soil like a banana peel on linoleum. The soil around here is clay-based so that can't help.

 

Good points on the grey water -- this course is out in farmland but you never know.

[BNGL]

When and why might it be advantageous to keep a golf course mushy-wet? My Saturday group plays a course that is a great design, but is watered so much that we conclude they get paid to use water. If it has rained for three days they'll be watering on the fourth. On many holes we aim for the rough because they don't water it and the ball won't plug there. It has been a wet summer here; I don't understand why you'd water quicksand. The owner and the super both shrug off complaints. I read here that too much water kills and invites disease. The course doesn't seem diseased or dying, but I can't remember the last time I found a drive more than a couple feet from its ball mark. What are we golfers missing?

 

I haven’t the slightest clue. I haven’t read or been told anything to that extent, nor maintained anything like that. There could be some high clay soils, or just mismanagement of the water program. When you stay really wet, you have no roots, fosters disease, and lacks something called playability (which is the most important thing). But going drier is hard to maintain as well, because it’s a seesaw and you need to stay in balance.

 

That’s unfortunate that your management team won’t answer your questions.

 

That's my observation; no roots. I fell on my butt twice this summer on not-terribly-severe grades when the grass under my foot sheared off of the soil like a banana peel on linoleum. The soil around here is clay-based so that can't help.

 

Good points on the grey water -- this course is out in farmland but you never know.

 

That’s part of the problem then the soil along with other things I’d imagine. I haven’t worked clay but I have played it, I can’t imagine water percolates very well. I played the cardinal am a few times in college, and I remember playing after it had rained earlier in the week and the club kept getting stuck so bad I couldn’t adjust to it. In Florida where I was going to school it’s sand, some clubs you can leave a sprinkler running all night and not have puddles, just have to be very very precise with the ball strike that week.

[augustgolf]

There are a few products in the marketplace that will "loosen" clay soil to allow better perc of water & all that goes along with that.

 

Have used it in some controlled environments & it works well. Also appears to break up surface algae.

[BNGL]

There are a few products in the marketplace that will "loosen" clay soil to allow better perc of water & all that goes along with that.

 

Have used it in some controlled environments & it works well. Also appears to break up surface algae.

 

What did you use?

 

I’d imagine you’d use something coarse maybe biochar or perlite?

[mallrat]

Seems a pattern is emerging :)

 

Your course is owned by farmers too?

 

I guess I could understand if it had to be wet to be green, but here in western PA everything that isn't paved is green in the summer.

 

Southern Oregon, pretty green as well... on several levels.

 

Never occurred to me that the wedding clients like to see the green. Now, that makes a lot of sense. The owner I'm referring to is not a farmer, he's actually a good player. That's why it makes even less sense why he over waters.

 

Lost Tracks here is Bend is going through something similar. From my understanding a gentleman who used to run the PGA of America or something like that bought it. He thinks with his knowledge and experience he doesn’t need a super. I believe this was his 2nd year without one and the course is a joke now. It used to be a fun low priced track and now is battling turf issues, bare spots on greens and the bunkers are a joke.

[BNGL]

Seems a pattern is emerging :)

 

Your course is owned by farmers too?

 

I guess I could understand if it had to be wet to be green, but here in western PA everything that isn't paved is green in the summer.

 

Southern Oregon, pretty green as well... on several levels.

 

Never occurred to me that the wedding clients like to see the green. Now, that makes a lot of sense. The owner I'm referring to is not a farmer, he's actually a good player. That's why it makes even less sense why he over waters.

 

Lost Tracks here is Bend is going through something similar. From my understanding a gentleman who used to run the PGA of America or something like that bought it. He thinks with his knowledge and experience he doesnt need a super. I believe this was his 2nd year without one and the course is a joke now. It used to be a fun low priced track and now is battling turf issues, bare spots on greens and the bunkers are a joke.

 

Hampton golf? Or MG Orender ring a bell?

[Matt J]

Seems a pattern is emerging :)

 

Your course is owned by farmers too?

 

I guess I could understand if it had to be wet to be green, but here in western PA everything that isn't paved is green in the summer.

 

Southern Oregon, pretty green as well... on several levels.

 

Never occurred to me that the wedding clients like to see the green. Now, that makes a lot of sense. The owner I'm referring to is not a farmer, he's actually a good player. That's why it makes even less sense why he over waters.

 

Lost Tracks here is Bend is going through something similar. From my understanding a gentleman who used to run the PGA of America or something like that bought it. He thinks with his knowledge and experience he doesn't need a super. I believe this was his 2nd year without one and the course is a joke now. It used to be a fun low priced track and now is battling turf issues, bare spots on greens and the bunkers are a joke.

 

mallrat, I thought you were headed down to the desert, Scotsdale or Palm Springs or something? In and around Medford we actually have another course, Stone Ridge GC that was designed and built by the owner. He had been trying to sell for a long time and just recently found a buyer. You'll appreciate this.... for the last several years, for much of the year, he would have one maintenance worker for the entire golf course. There was a pro, an assistant, sometimes another gal inside manning the hot dogs and drinks, and yet, for the entire golf course there would be one guy. I met him once and he was telling me he basically had to have a mower running for 95% of his shift or he couldn't keep the course mowed.

[mallrat]

We were looking at Scottsdale but the wife didn’t get the job. Now i’m At Pronghorn and she’s at Tetherow. Loving the Bend life

[poppyhillsguy]

2 kids with bikes come on the course at night and leave skid marks on the greens. What can be done to prevent this if anything?

 

Our cart barn guys bring in the flags just after sundown and they are going to keep an eye out for them. Telling them about the situation is all I can come up with. My super chalks it up to kids just being kids.

[mallrat]

2 kids with bikes come on the course at night and leave skid marks on the greens. What can be done to prevent this if anything?

 

Our cart barn guys bring in the flags just after sundown and they are going to keep an eye out for them. Telling them about the situation is all I can come up with. My super chalks it up to kids just being kids.

 

I’ve heard of game cameras if it becomes a regular occurance

[Malvern]

2 kids with bikes come on the course at night and leave skid marks on the greens. What can be done to prevent this if anything?

 

Our cart barn guys bring in the flags just after sundown and they are going to keep an eye out for them. Telling them about the situation is all I can come up with. My super chalks it up to kids just being kids.

 

Trip wires that make gun shot noises.

 

They will leave DNA evidence.

[BNGL]

2 kids with bikes come on the course at night and leave skid marks on the greens. What can be done to prevent this if anything?

 

Our cart barn guys bring in the flags just after sundown and they are going to keep an eye out for them. Telling them about the situation is all I can come up with. My super chalks it up to kids just being kids.

 

Game cameras are a good ideas if there’s an HOA they might have a neighborhood watch volunteer deputy patrolling at night, maybe communicate with them and see if he can patrol the course too.

 

But there isn’t much unfortunately. Even if you catch them there isn’t much, probably trespassing and vandalism maybe damages which isn’t enough in my opinion. I had it happen a couple times in Orlando, and I stayed out there all night me and my dog...saw them one night and I ran them down in my cart (which did close to 45) at about midnight. It never happened again after that.

[Miss_Tee]

I belong to a course in northern Wisconsin that has quite a problem with Canada geese. Four of our holes are bordered by a lake. We have several mating pairs and there gets to be upwards of forty geese wandering around and "making deposits" all over the place. It's quite unpleasant. I don't believe they have tried much of anything to get rid of the geese. We chase them into the water when we see them and a couple minutes later they are back on the course. Do you have any experience with getting rid of Canadian geese?

[BNGL]

I belong to a course in northern Wisconsin that has quite a problem with Canada geese. Four of our holes are bordered by a lake. We have several mating pairs and there gets to be upwards of forty geese wandering around and "making deposits" all over the place. It's quite unpleasant. I don't believe they have tried much of anything to get rid of the geese. We chase them into the water when we see them and a couple minutes later they are back on the course. Do you have any experience with getting rid of Canadian geese?

 

Yes get some dogs. They breed dogs specifically for this purpose, quite expensive but also very effective.

[BNGL]

https://www.gcmonline.com/course/environment/news/border-collie-geese-control

 

 

[Miss_Tee]

https://www.gcmonlin...e-geese-control

 

That's awesome. I sent the link to our club president. Thanks!

[mallrat]

Both courses I have worked at have had geese problems, once you get into mating pairs it’s another issue. My current course had to go through a federal application program to oil (kill) the eggs. Once we find the eggs we put an oil on them and the parents will then abandon them and they won’t hatch. Generally results in the coyotes, hawks or owls eating them (the badger sticks to larger stuff including coyotes, he rules his course with an iron fist).

 

For general geese removal, if you don’t want to go the dog route, we have some luck using laser pointers. Not sure why but they hate them and make them take off but they come back most of the time. I have also used starter pistols, you will need 2. Put 1 person with a pistol on each side of the flock. 1st person shoots and the geese go towards the other side, 2nd person shoots and they either take off or go back the other way and the 1st person shoots again. After a few days of this they will generally relocate but a new flock will move in.

 

A new technique I have seen is a RC water plane (plus it looks fun as he!!.) Drop the plane in the water about 100 yards from the flock then get a good running start at them, then as they take off have the plane take off and chase them around in the air for about 15 minutes. They hate it.

 

My personal fav is waiting for them to get on the bank and turning on all the heads around them for about a minute. Watching a direct hit makes me laugh so hard (still 3 years later) and they HATE it.

[mallrat]

When and why might it be advantageous to keep a golf course mushy-wet? My Saturday group plays a course that is a great design, but is watered so much that we conclude they get paid to use water. If it has rained for three days they'll be watering on the fourth. On many holes we aim for the rough because they don't water it and the ball won't plug there. It has been a wet summer here; I don't understand why you'd water quicksand. The owner and the super both shrug off complaints. I read here that too much water kills and invites disease. The course doesn't seem diseased or dying, but I can't remember the last time I found a drive more than a couple feet from its ball mark. What are we golfers missing?

 

I haven’t the slightest clue. I haven’t read or been told anything to that extent, nor maintained anything like that. There could be some high clay soils, or just mismanagement of the water program. When you stay really wet, you have no roots, fosters disease, and lacks something called playability (which is the most important thing). But going drier is hard to maintain as well, because it’s a seesaw and you need to stay in balance.

 

That’s unfortunate that your management team won’t answer your questions.

 

That's my observation; no roots. I fell on my butt twice this summer on not-terribly-severe grades when the grass under my foot sheared off of the soil like a banana peel on linoleum. The soil around here is clay-based so that can't help.

 

Good points on the grey water -- this course is out in farmland but you never know.

 

That’s part of the problem then the soil along with other things I’d imagine. I haven’t worked clay but I have played it, I can’t imagine water percolates very well. I played the cardinal am a few times in college, and I remember playing after it had rained earlier in the week and the club kept getting stuck so bad I couldn’t adjust to it. In Florida where I was going to school it’s sand, some clubs you can leave a sprinkler running all night and not have puddles, just have to be very very precise with the ball strike that week.

 

Having worked on a clay based course, this may sound weird but you can almost top dress your way out of it. My last course from construction and 20+ years of a moderate top dress program has a good solid sand base now but you get on the mounds of rough and the soggy clay will dump you on your butt (almost killed myself twice, once carrying a machete for blackberry bushes and again with a motorized shears).

[Miss_Tee]

Both courses I have worked at have had geese problems, once you get into mating pairs it's another issue. My current course had to go through a federal application program to oil (kill) the eggs. Once we find the eggs we put an oil on them and the parents will then abandon them and they won't hatch. Generally results in the coyotes, hawks or owls eating them (the badger sticks to larger stuff including coyotes, he rules his course with an iron fist).

 

For general geese removal, if you don't want to go the dog route, we have some luck using laser pointers. Not sure why but they hate them and make them take off but they come back most of the time. I have also used starter pistols, you will need 2. Put 1 person with a pistol on each side of the flock. 1st person shoots and the geese go towards the other side, 2nd person shoots and they either take off or go back the other way and the 1st person shoots again. After a few days of this they will generally relocate but a new flock will move in.

 

A new technique I have seen is a RC water plane (plus it looks fun as he!!.) Drop the plane in the water about 100 yards from the flock then get a good running start at them, then as they take off have the plane take off and chase them around in the air for about 15 minutes. They hate it.

 

My personal fav is waiting for them to get on the bank and turning on all the heads around them for about a minute. Watching a direct hit makes me laugh so hard (still 3 years later) and they HATE it.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I like the idea of an RC water plane. Sounds fun.

[jli2636]

What is the best thing to do on Zoysia fairways when the course doesn’t provide sand bottles for divots? On Zoysia my divots tend to explode and I’ve never seen a sand/seed mix bin anywhere to fill a bottle and no bottles attached to the carts when I take a cart at my home course. Have seen the bottles with sand at many other facilities that have Zoysia fairways.

[BNGL]

What is the best thing to do on Zoysia fairways when the course doesnt provide sand bottles for divots? On Zoysia my divots tend to explode and Ive never seen a sand/seed mix bin anywhere to fill a bottle and no bottles attached to the carts when I take a cart at my home course. Have seen the bottles with sand at many other facilities that have Zoysia fairways.

 

Hmm aside from suggesting that the club provide it (I’d hope they have the crew go behind/before play to fill it?) I’m not too sure. You could bring your own sand in a water bottle or Gatorade bottle (that’s what our caddies do). But I’d shy away from mixing seed in with it, unless you can get the exact strain which is possible.

 

If absolutely nothing is available, try to tap the sides of the divot down and in towards the center. Doing that will help minimize the size of the divot. Smaller divot potentially faster recovery.

 

I’m not above letting the members into our shop area to refill their divot containers on their personal carts and applaud the respect you show for the course! Well done!

[Schley]

What is the best thing to do on Zoysia fairways when the course doesnt provide sand bottles for divots? On Zoysia my divots tend to explode and Ive never seen a sand/seed mix bin anywhere to fill a bottle and no bottles attached to the carts when I take a cart at my home course. Have seen the bottles with sand at many other facilities that have Zoysia fairways.

 

Hmm aside from suggesting that the club provide it (I’d hope they have the crew go behind/before play to fill it?) I’m not too sure. You could bring your own sand in a water bottle or Gatorade bottle (that’s what our caddies do). But I’d shy away from mixing seed in with it, unless you can get the exact strain which is possible.

 

If absolutely nothing is available, try to tap the sides of the divot down and in towards the center. Doing that will help minimize the size of the divot. Smaller divot potentially faster recovery.

 

I’m not above letting the members into our shop area to refill their divot containers on their personal carts and applaud the respect you show for the course! Well done!

Do your caddies pick up the divots themselves so there is none on the course like The Quarry at La Quinta? That was amazing to see and really was a nice touch, although certainly takes a commitment from everyone. If the members are for it and abide by it then the course will benefit from best practices in course maintenance. From repairing divots/ballmarks/raking sand etc.

[BNGL]

What is the best thing to do on Zoysia fairways when the course doesnt provide sand bottles for divots? On Zoysia my divots tend to explode and Ive never seen a sand/seed mix bin anywhere to fill a bottle and no bottles attached to the carts when I take a cart at my home course. Have seen the bottles with sand at many other facilities that have Zoysia fairways.

 

Hmm aside from suggesting that the club provide it (I’d hope they have the crew go behind/before play to fill it?) I’m not too sure. You could bring your own sand in a water bottle or Gatorade bottle (that’s what our caddies do). But I’d shy away from mixing seed in with it, unless you can get the exact strain which is possible.

 

If absolutely nothing is available, try to tap the sides of the divot down and in towards the center. Doing that will help minimize the size of the divot. Smaller divot potentially faster recovery.

 

I’m not above letting the members into our shop area to refill their divot containers on their personal carts and applaud the respect you show for the course! Well done!

Do your caddies pick up the divots themselves so there is none on the course like The Quarry at La Quinta? That was amazing to see and really was a nice touch, although certainly takes a commitment from everyone. If the members are for it and abide by it then the course will benefit from best practices in course maintenance. From repairing divots/ballmarks/raking sand etc.

 

They’re supposed to throw them into the rough, but between a majority of our membership not being capable of making a divot and our caddies not being very good it rarely happens.

 

The whole objective of joining a private club or exclusive club is to have a place of your own...but still there’s a few people that fail to recognize that it’s their club. And don’t do anything in the way of taking care of it, such as fixing ball marks or putting trash in the trash cans not the divot boxes.

[ebrasmus21]

BNGL - forgive me if this question has been asked. Replacing turf into a divot (like immediately after hitting) - what purpose does this serve? Will that turf actually live and grow back?

[Matt J]

Why are golf courses so concerned about the geese? What makes them a problem?

 

My area seems to be in the flyway as we have a ton of Canadians and they love the golf course. Makes sense to me that they are attracted to the irrigation ponds and like to forage short grasses.

 

The scat is unsightly; does it create other agronomy issues? I do notice a lot of worm castings where there is a lot of goose poop. Does it harbor disease or create bigger problems?

 

I really like Australia's model where they cull the kangaroo and process the meat to sell in grocery stores very inexpensively. Seems the overpopulation of geese could be handled this way.

[BNGL]

BNGL - forgive me if this question has been asked. Replacing turf into a divot (like immediately after hitting) - what purpose does this serve? Will that turf actually live and grow back?

 

 

It will but only replace it if there’s dirt on the bottom. Just replace the divot place some mix on top and the sides and step it down level with the surrounding surface.

 

If it explodes into a bunch of pieces just fill it with the divot mixture because there’s not much there that will recover.

[augustgolf]

What is the best thing to do on Zoysia fairways when the course doesn’t provide sand bottles for divots? On Zoysia my divots tend to explode and I’ve never seen a sand/seed mix bin anywhere to fill a bottle and no bottles attached to the carts when I take a cart at my home course. Have seen the bottles with sand at many other facilities that have Zoysia fairways.

 

Hmm aside from suggesting that the club provide it (I’d hope they have the crew go behind/before play to fill it?) I’m not too sure. You could bring your own sand in a water bottle or Gatorade bottle (that’s what our caddies do). But I’d shy away from mixing seed in with it, unless you can get the exact strain which is possible.

 

If absolutely nothing is available, try to tap the sides of the divot down and in towards the center. Doing that will help minimize the size of the divot. Smaller divot potentially faster recovery.

 

I’m not above letting the members into our shop area to refill their divot containers on their personal carts and applaud the respect you show for the course! Well done!

 

BITD when I was in the business in FLA, we had the opportunity to play some great, exclusive courses (such as yours) in the summer.

 

I generally asked the super if it was OK for me to bring a 5 gallon bucket and fill it with sand, as I would fill every divot I found while I played...usually while waiting on the other players in my group to decide on what to hit/

 

Especially on the par 3's and landing areas of par 5's and short par 4's.

 

I was always welcomed back with open arms!

 

Now, in semi-retirement....if I do part-time rangering, I always take that bucket with me, and usually have to fill it 2-3 times during a 5 hour shift. I don't hawk balls, can't stand not doing something, and hopefully, others will see me doing it...and follow suit.

[caniac6]

Why are golf courses so concerned about the geese? What makes them a problem?

 

My area seems to be in the flyway as we have a ton of Canadians and they love the golf course. Makes sense to me that they are attracted to the irrigation ponds and like to forage short grasses.

 

The scat is unsightly; does it create other agronomy issues? I do notice a lot of worm castings where there is a lot of goose poop. Does it harbor disease or create bigger problems?

 

I really like Australia's model where they cull the kangaroo and process the meat to sell in grocery stores very inexpensively. Seems the overpopulation of geese could be handled this way.

In the south when the Bermuda goes dormant, they will eat grass off the greens and fringes. Plus, since they are on the green more, there is more poop on the green.