Golf Course Superintendent Ready to Answer Any Questions You May Have

[TexasTurf]

14 hours ago, NorthTexasGlfr said:

 

What is Mark Ross trying to tell us exactly?

Great question. He is showing that bermuda can be great if left alone. But this is a First Tee walking only course for kids mainly.

 

He had another post showing what they have to do on their main course with high cart traffic just to match those conditions, and it is a lot.

[TexasTurf]

13 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

I would like to see what they look like during a summer drought

Brown for sure, but very playable. No carts so it doesn't get beat down, just goes dormant similar to winter and comes right back up once they get some rain and more moderate conditions.

[caniac6]

7 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Brown for sure, but very playable. No carts so it doesn't get beat down, just goes dormant similar to winter and comes right back up once they get some rain and more moderate conditions.

I really don’t think most people realize what carts do to courses. A course I used to play had way more riders than walkers. They had “no carts” signs up close to greens. Every spring I would make a point of telling folks to look at the difference in the turf on both sides of the signs. The no cart side was plush, and seemed to break dormancy better, and the cart side was beat down.

 

 

[TexasTurf]

16 hours ago, caniac6 said:

I really don’t think most people realize what carts do to courses. A course I used to play had way more riders than walkers. They had “no carts” signs up close to greens. Every spring I would make a point of telling folks to look at the difference in the turf on both sides of the signs. The no cart side was plush, and seemed to break dormancy better, and the cart side was beat down.

 

 

Absolutely. I'm very cart friendly, but if you want perfect conditions at your cart course you're going to have to spend more $$ for inputs and deal with more disruptions than your walking club neighbors. Both options can be great. 

[mallrat]

We had 52 full field double shotguns this year. 144 golfers per tournament all in carts. I swear they target the dry patches. Our course also will let 4 people in a group take 4 separate carts. I hate when courses make you pair up with someone you don’t know but I get it. 

 

[Holy Moses]

The people that pull up to the green and drive 3 feet off the cart path onto the grass for no reason are something

[mallrat]

3 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

The people that pull up to the green and drive 3 feet off the cart path onto the grass for no reason are something

I know of one Super that absolutely rips into members for doing that. It’s great to see. One good lecture and they don’t do it again. Guess you are allowed to when your greens are considered to be some of the best in the state 

[mshills]

4 hours ago, mallrat said:

I know of one Super that absolutely rips into members for doing that. It’s great to see. One good lecture and they don’t do it again. Guess you are allowed to when your greens are considered to be some of the best in the state 

Good!

 

You see people doing this at the tee box too.

 

What is the matter with you?

“What if someone needs to get by?”

🧐🧐🧐

At that point you start to wonder how someone functions day to day. 

[TexasTurf]

9 hours ago, mshills said:

Good!

 

You see people doing this at the tee box too.

 

What is the matter with you?

“What if someone needs to get by?”

🧐🧐🧐

At that point you start to wonder how someone functions day to day. 

Honestly, that doesn't bother me one bit. Our members drive onto the tees, park on the range tees and pull right up to the greens. They own the place, not us. In my opinion it doesn't really hurt anything, just let them enjoy their property how they want to.

[TexasTurf]

14 hours ago, mallrat said:

I know of one Super that absolutely rips into members for doing that. It’s great to see. One good lecture and they don’t do it again. Guess you are allowed to when your greens are considered to be some of the best in the state 

Those supers have the exact opposite priorities as myself. Just let them play, if your grass can't handle that, that's on you.

[NorthTexasGlfr]

8 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Honestly, that doesn't bother me one bit. Our members drive onto the tees, park on the range tees and pull right up to the greens. They own the place, not us. In my opinion it doesn't really hurt anything, just let them enjoy their property how they want to.

 

This is certainly an interesting way to look at it when it is a member-owned club. Which I happen to be. 

[TexasTurf]

15 hours ago, NorthTexasGlfr said:

 

This is certainly an interesting way to look at it when it is a member-owned club. Which I happen to be. 

Of course it depends on the season, and current conditions, but if it isn't hurting anything go for it. If the grass is cold, dormant, and wet, you are going to cause damage, and that won't be acceptable. If it's dry and the zoysia or bermuda is growing it really doesn't matter and will not cause any damage.

[596]

6 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Of course it depends on the season, and current conditions, but if it isn't hurting anything go for it. If the grass is cold, dormant, and wet, you are going to cause damage, and that won't be acceptable. If it's dry and the zoysia or bermuda is growing it really doesn't matter and will not cause any damage.

We get way too much traffic to allow that.  Our course sees 73,000 rounds a year. And that's down from over 80k 2 years ago.  I'd love to see people keep the carts ON the path at tees and greens.

[TexasTurf]

16 hours ago, 596 said:

We get way too much traffic to allow that.  Our course sees 73,000 rounds a year. And that's down from over 80k 2 years ago.  I'd love to see people keep the carts ON the path at tees and greens.

Yeah no doubt. Completely different situation. Couldn't agree more!

[TexasTurf]

596, Just read the forum on Texags on Dallas courses, what a wild ride lol. I'm not an Aggie but that was fun, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

[caniac6]

How do you keep the rough at your course? We played a semi private course today that had very thick Bermuda rough. It was only about 2-2.5 inches deep, but the ball settled down, and we lost balls not very far off the fairway. It probably added 40 minutes to our round looking for balls. I don’t mind playing out of the rough, but it’s not too much fun looking for balls on almost every hole.

Edited October 30, 2024 by caniac6

[TexasTurf]

4 hours ago, caniac6 said:

How do you keep the rough at your course? We played a semi private course today that had very thick Bermuda rough. It was only about 2-2.5 inches deep, but the ball settled down, and we lost balls not very far off the fairway. It probably added 40 minutes to our round looking for balls. I don’t mind playing out of the rough, but it’s not too much fun looking for balls on almost every hole.

That's actually very impressive. Most bermuda rough here in TX gets so beat down by carts that it is almost hard to tell the rough from the fairways. We have thick zoysia that we keep between 2.5 inches to 3 inches usually, just depends on what the members want.

[larrybud]

On 10/25/2024 at 7:05 AM, Holy Moses said:

The people that pull up to the green and drive 3 feet off the cart path onto the grass for no reason are something

 

I honestly don't understand the guy that parks with 2 wheels off the path.

[mshills]

Here is a question for the experts in here on bunker rakes. 

 

I grew up caddying at the club level, and have done some looping on what was then the Nike tour and other various individual events, so I’ve been around. Rake placement was always scattered around outside of bunkers, in spots as unobtrusive as possible.

 

My club’s greenskeeper asks us to place the rakes IN the bunkers. So I do. I don’t have religion on this topic despite how I was “raised”, and I figure there is a a good reason he asks us to put them there. I’m curious what that reason might be, as I’ve never asked him. 

[Dancin]

2 hours ago, mshills said:

Here is a question for the experts in here on bunker rakes. 

 

I grew up caddying at the club level, and have done some looping on what was then the Nike tour and other various individual events, so I’ve been around. Rake placement was always scattered around outside of bunkers, in spots as unobtrusive as possible.

 

My club’s greenskeeper asks us to place the rakes IN the bunkers. So I do. I don’t have religion on this topic despite how I was “raised”, and I figure there is a a good reason he asks us to put them there. I’m curious what that reason might be, as I’ve never asked him. 

The general reasons given are 1 - for players: hitting a rake outside the bunker can result in a poor shot for something they shouldn't have been punished for whereas hitting a rake in a bunker, well you were landing in a hazard already.
2 - for maintenance they can mow the grass without having to stop and move the rakes into the bunkers

[Holy Moses]

6 hours ago, mshills said:

Here is a question for the experts in here on bunker rakes. 

 

I grew up caddying at the club level, and have done some looping on what was then the Nike tour and other various individual events, so I’ve been around. Rake placement was always scattered around outside of bunkers, in spots as unobtrusive as possible.

 

My club’s greenskeeper asks us to place the rakes IN the bunkers. So I do. I don’t have religion on this topic despite how I was “raised”, and I figure there is a a good reason he asks us to put them there. I’m curious what that reason might be, as I’ve never asked him. 

Rakes outside the bunker can keep a shot from entering the bunker when it should have gone in. But I’m not picky on bunker rake placement. 

Edited October 31, 2024 by Holy Moses

[caniac6]

6 hours ago, mshills said:

Here is a question for the experts in here on bunker rakes. 

 

I grew up caddying at the club level, and have done some looping on what was then the Nike tour and other various individual events, so I’ve been around. Rake placement was always scattered around outside of bunkers, in spots as unobtrusive as possible.

 

My club’s greenskeeper asks us to place the rakes IN the bunkers. So I do. I don’t have religion on this topic despite how I was “raised”, and I figure there is a a good reason he asks us to put them there. I’m curious what that reason might be, as I’ve never asked him. 

The guys mowing around the bunkers don’t have to get off the mower to move rakes. 

[mshills]

17 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Rakes outside the bunker can keep a shot from entering the bunker when it should have gone in. But I’m not picky on bunker rake placement. 

I get that, and was looking for the practical grounds keeping reason. More efficient mowing, yes. My limited experience on a grounds crew was on the sand pro, so in that case I’d be the one to move the rakes if they were in the bunkers. 

 

Probably not much difference for anyone, in or out.

[596]

As grounds crew I was taught IN the bunkers.  

 

1. Once in the sand you are in the sand. The rake has nothing to do with it.

 

2.The rake outside will prevent a ball from rolling where it was supposed to go.

 

For the rough mower he doesn't need to get off the machine to move every rake.  Kind of a tough break for the the guy running the sand pro. Hopefully the rakes will be in a place he won't hit them in the bunker.    

[mallrat]

I was taught the takes are superintendent dependent. All of my previous Supers wanted them placed in the bunker. 2 wanted the handle to run horizontal with the bunker edge, with the rake or top closer to the green the other wanted them placed in the bunkers like a T, so the handle was perpendicular vs parallel to the bunker edge. The parallel argument was that the head was still on a slope so technically the ball should roll down the slope away from the head of the rake.

 

Now, from what I was taught, the most important part, bunker takes always are placed in low points. Rakes placed on steep slopes or the high side encourage golfers to enter there which will disrupt the bunker much more than entering in a flat area. 

[TexasTurf]

The simple answer is we can do whatever you want with the bunkers. Rakes in, rakes out, doesn't matter we'll make it happen. Aussie style with the smooth edges or rake the whole bunker is about the same amount of labor either way. Keeping rakes in or out doesn't change it either, you're going to have to mow and edge, and blow the clippings out of the bunker and reposition the rakes regardless of style. 

[ThinkingPlus]

I never worry about where the rakes are. Just happy if there is a rake somewhere and it's a big bonus if there is sand to use it on.

[TexasTurf]

On 10/31/2024 at 11:13 PM, ThinkingPlus said:

I never worry about where the rakes are. Just happy if there is a rake somewhere and it's a big bonus if there is sand to use it on.

Agreed. With the amount of demand and play currently I don't understand how a lack of rakes and sand can be possible, unless you're deliberately not trying to care. Both of those issues are extremely easy to fix with no disruption to daily play, at any level.

Edited November 2, 2024 by TexasTurf

[mallrat]

On a funny side note along this topic. We fly now around bunkers and use a weed eater/string trimmer along the edges. One day back when I was first starting and just a crew guy, 2 guys who didn’t like each other kept getting in each others way. One on a trim mower and the other with a string trimmer. Well the guy in the mower, who is a real hot head, got really mad and bumped into the other guy knocking him over and into the bunker. When we came in for lunch the guy that got knocked over came up from behind him and grabbed 2 hand fulls of hair and dragged him out into the parking lot. When the other guys got up he punched him square in the eye. The hot head on the mower backed down but it was hilarious because probably 1/2 the guys that worked there wanted to do it but never had a good enough reason.  

[mshills]

4 hours ago, mallrat said:

On a funny side note along this topic. We fly now around bunkers and use a weed eater/string trimmer along the edges. One day back when I was first starting and just a crew guy, 2 guys who didn’t like each other kept getting in each others way. One on a trim mower and the other with a string trimmer. Well the guy in the mower, who is a real hot head, got really mad and bumped into the other guy knocking him over and into the bunker. When we came in for lunch the guy that got knocked over came up from behind him and grabbed 2 hand fulls of hair and dragged him out into the parking lot. When the other guys got up he punched him square in the eye. The hot head on the mower backed down but it was hilarious because probably 1/2 the guys that worked there wanted to do it but never had a good enough reason.  

LOL!!!

 

Most places I’ve been the majority of the grounds crew are some serious roughnecks….guys not to be messed with, with the odd college student like me given blower or sand pro duty. Can’t say I blame line trimmer guy. I’d want to lay someone out if I got hit by the mower on purpose, that’s messed up.