Golf Course Superintendent Ready to Answer Any Questions You May Have

[Holy Moses]

51 minutes ago, iporcinis said:

Not sure if this is the best place to post this question but wondering if someone could give me a perspective. The club I play at hired a new superintendent this year and the course has been in noticeably worse conditions, in particular the greens. I've attached a couple photos of the putting green where I tried to capture the issue - those varying shades of green create a very bumpy surface. Can anyone tell what is going on here?

Maybe a disease or heat stress from last year and then poa grew in its place. What state is this? 

[iporcinis]

 

5 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

Maybe a disease or heat stress from last year and then poa grew in its place. What state is this? 

Michigan. I'm assuming we have bentgrass greens and not poa, but maybe poa is infiltrating?

[mallrat]

Hard to tell from the photo but looks like Poa is invading the greens. If it is Poa looks to late to spray or he’ll take out 1/2 his green. 

[TexasTurf]

5 hours ago, iporcinis said:

 

Michigan. I'm assuming we have bentgrass greens and not poa, but maybe poa is infiltrating?

No, you do not have primarily bentgrass greens. in this picture you have a mostly poa green (the lighter lime green colored grass) with a little bit of bent mixed in (the darker blueish looking grass). Not a bad thing, and pretty typical for Michigan. Just need to add some, or in this case lots, of sand to the surface to bring it to a level surface. Everything looks quite healthy, but the differences between the grasses will affect how the ball rolls without a good sandy base.

 

If they don't want to do that, hire me and I'll come fix it.

Edited June 15 by TexasTurf

[mallrat]

12 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

No, you do not have primarily bentgrass greens. in this picture you have a mostly poa green (the lighter lime green colored grass) with a little bit of bent mixed in (the darker blueish looking grass). Not a bad thing, and pretty typical for Michigan. Just need to add some, or in this case lots, of sand to the surface to bring it to a level surface. Everything looks quite healthy, but the differences between the grasses will affect how the ball rolls without a good sandy base.

 

If they don't want to do that, hire me and I'll come fix it.

The dreaded transition phase. 
 

As he said, he will most likely need to start to be more aggressive with his top dressing and verticutting. Poa is managed very differently and extremely susceptible to disease but can be a fine putting surface. Is it the best or most desirable, not even close, but managed properly it can be almost as good as anything out there. Managed poorly and it stinks

[Holy Moses]

13 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

No, you do not have primarily bentgrass greens. in this picture you have a mostly poa green (the lighter lime green colored grass) with a little bit of bent mixed in (the darker blueish looking grass). Not a bad thing, and pretty typical for Michigan. Just need to add some, or in this case lots, of sand to the surface to bring it to a level surface. Everything looks quite healthy, but the differences between the grasses will affect how the ball rolls without a good sandy base.

 

If they don't want to do that, hire me and I'll come fix it.

In the wider angle picture with the flags, I thought it looks like the green is primarily bent. Has anyone used the herbicide PoaCure?

[mallrat]

27 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

In the wider angle picture with the flags, I thought it looks like the green is primarily bent. Has anyone used the herbicide PoaCure?

I know of 3 people who got fired over similar applications. 

[Holy Moses]

10 minutes ago, mallrat said:

I know of 3 people who got fired over similar applications. 

That is something to be aware of if you have a lot more poa than you think 

[TexasTurf]

9 hours ago, Holy Moses said:

In the wider angle picture with the flags, I thought it looks like the green is primarily bent. Has anyone used the herbicide PoaCure?

Could be, hard to tell from one picture. Not here in TX. We hand pull / plug it out. And the summer heat helps burn it off. We have hydronics cooling under greens now so it could be more of an issue in the future, we'll see.

[golfortennis]

On 6/14/2025 at 8:15 PM, iporcinis said:

 

Michigan. I'm assuming we have bentgrass greens and not poa, but maybe poa is infiltrating?

 

Is your course a valley named after a middle eastern/African country?

[caniac6]

We had a lot f poa in our greens prior to our renovation, and we just accepted that old bentgrass greens are going to have a fair amount of poa in them. The greens were just what they were, we were used them, and we never blamed poa for missed putts. The greens were rebuilt with a new type of bentgrass that is supposed to be resistant to poa invasion. I guess we will see.

[iporcinis]

On 6/16/2025 at 7:33 AM, golfortennis said:

 

Is your course a valley named after a middle eastern/African country?

Haha no but I know the place you are referring to. The club I'm at is a very much mid/lower-tier country club, not anything exclusive or high end or $$. We've had good supers in the past (again to my novice eye) and I'm sure we do not have the budget for a good agronomy staff and probably cut corners on maintenance, but the greens this year seems noticeably worse than years past.

 

One other fun fact I forgot to mention - we noticed this year that all of the old hole locations on the greens turned into dead spots. So you'd go onto any green on the course and easily be able to see 5 or so old hole locations that were all dead. I don't know what caused it but apparently the guy that had doing it had no idea how to do it properly. The issue is not fully resolved either.

Edited June 17 by iporcinis

[smashdn]

Cost to build a new tee?

 

Assume it will only be used by the farthest back set of tee markers, so fairly light traffic.  30x50 feet sound about right for width and length?  Height I would guess 2-2.5' off of base grade.  Clay base soils, bentgrass on the tee area proper and slopes in fescue/bluegrass roughs.

 

Reason I am asking is we have a small fund for course improvements (raised voluntarily by membership for this specific purpose) and I was curious if a new tee (to provide a very few yards more length but much tougher angle) would be within the budget.  Historically the money has been used for things that are more aesthetic than impacting play.

[Holy Moses]

23 minutes ago, smashdn said:

Cost to build a new tee?

 

Assume it will only be used by the farthest back set of tee markers, so fairly light traffic.  30x50 feet sound about right for width and length?  Height I would guess 2-2.5' off of base grade.  Clay base soils, bentgrass on the tee area proper and slopes in fescue/bluegrass roughs.

 

Reason I am asking is we have a small fund for course improvements (raised voluntarily by membership for this specific purpose) and I was curious if a new tee (to provide a very few yards more length but much tougher angle) would be within the budget.  Historically the money has been used for things that are more aesthetic than impacting play.

I asked a super I know and he said $3,500

[golfortennis]

3 hours ago, iporcinis said:

Haha no but I know the place you are referring to. The club I'm at is a very much mid/lower-tier country club, not anything exclusive or high end or $$. We've had good supers in the past (again to my novice eye) and I'm sure we do not have the budget for a good agronomy staff and probably cut corners on maintenance, but the greens this year seems noticeably worse than years past.

 

One other fun fact I forgot to mention - we noticed this year that all of the old hole locations on the greens turned into dead spots. So you'd go onto any green on the course and easily be able to see 5 or so old hole locations that were all dead. I don't know what caused it but apparently the guy that had doing it had no idea how to do it properly. The issue is not fully resolved either.

 

OK.  The pic you posted reminded me of the clubhouse of the place I alluded to.  Of course I didn't realize the place I was referring to was considered high end.  Saw my first electric snowboard things there....

[Naptime]

Question: Does the 90 degree cart rule actually save wear and tear on the course?  Seems to me like it's more driving aside from being very inconvenient if the 2 golfers don't consistently land in the same spot.

 

I did a search but came up with college degrees and air temperature posts.

[Holy Moses]

4 minutes ago, Naptime said:

Question: Does the 90 degree cart rule actually save wear and tear on the course?  Seems to me like it's more driving aside from being very inconvenient if the 2 golfers don't consistently land in the same spot.

 

I did a search but came up with college degrees and air temperature posts.

You’re supposed to stay on the cart path until you get to your ball and then shoot 90* over. Don’t drive in the rough then shoot 90* over. If done like that, yes less wear and tear on the fairways, especially when it is dry or wet. The worse issue I see is people driving off the path near the green and parking on the grass to save themselves from walking two extra feet. 

[596]

1 hour ago, Holy Moses said:

You’re supposed to stay on the cart path until you get to your ball and then shoot 90* over. Don’t drive in the rough then shoot 90* over. If done like that, yes less wear and tear on the fairways, especially when it is dry or wet. The worse issue I see is people driving off the path near the green and parking on the grass to save themselves from walking two extra feet. 

Never understood the need to pull off the cart path at a tee box!  😂 Or even pull off the path and drive to the other side of the tee box in the grass. 😕 

[mshills]

1 hour ago, Holy Moses said:

You’re supposed to stay on the cart path until you get to your ball and then shoot 90* over. Don’t drive in the rough then shoot 90* over. If done like that, yes less wear and tear on the fairways, especially when it is dry or wet. The worse issue I see is people driving off the path near the green and parking on the grass to save themselves from walking two extra feet. 

How do you reason with those people???

 

”Oh I just pull off the path out of the way.”

 

??????

 

”But what if someone needs to get by?”

[596]

27 minutes ago, mshills said:

How do you reason with those people???

 

”Oh I just pull off the path out of the way.”

 

??????

 

”But what if someone needs to get by?”

😁 "I'll pull into the grass in case of the 1 out of 100 times I kill the grass that someone actually wants to pass by" 😂 

 

Some people are so stupid.

[TexasTurf]

6 hours ago, Naptime said:

Question: Does the 90 degree cart rule actually save wear and tear on the course?  Seems to me like it's more driving aside from being very inconvenient if the 2 golfers don't consistently land in the same spot.

 

I did a search but came up with college degrees and air temperature posts.

Totally depends on the course. It makes sense if you're trying to keep traffic off fairways. If you're trying to keep traffic out of the rough, it will hurt more than it helps. We have all zoysia everywhere so this time of year you can drive wherever you want and it can take it, more north, west, and southeast will have different problems and preferred traffic patterns.

[Faucette]

I used to be in the business over 25 years ago and we used Primo growth regulator on the fairways and tees. Does this help overall turf quality as far as density or is it just to reduce mowing. Is this something still used these days. I ask as I see local golf courses spraying fairways on the regular and I wonder if they are still using this product.  We have Bermuda fairways in my area. 

[Naptime]

On 5/27/2025 at 3:46 AM, mallrat said:

1. we called ours “the step cut” we did away with it during Covid. I really like the look but it’s 6 hrs twice a week. IMO, just most courses saving on labor. 
 

2. many of these GUR spots, at least at my course, are the results of cart traffic. If a course isn’t marking them gur it’s either laziness, lack of knowledge or lack of care. Our spots aren’t generally in playable areas. Our spots like that are where every group decides to drive onto the grass from the cart path. 

We have a local rule for preferred lies in the fairway so it's not a problem.

[Holy Moses]

3 hours ago, Faucette said:

I used to be in the business over 25 years ago and we used Primo growth regulator on the fairways and tees. Does this help overall turf quality as far as density or is it just to reduce mowing. Is this something still used these days. I ask as I see local golf courses spraying fairways on the regular and I wonder if they are still using this product.  We have Bermuda fairways in my area. 

Yes. That product causes the turf to get wider, not longer. 

[smashdn]

11 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Totally depends on the course. It makes sense if you're trying to keep traffic off fairways. If you're trying to keep traffic out of the rough, it will hurt more than it helps. We have all zoysia everywhere so this time of year you can drive wherever you want and it can take it, more north, west, and southeast will have different problems and preferred traffic patterns.

 

There is a public course north of me with bermuda fairways and fescue and bluegrass roughs.  Driving in the rough there is a no-go and the ranger will get onto you if you do.  Fairways only.  I have never been there on a weather day to warrant it but I doubt they even do 90* rule for their want to keep the rough from getting layed over.

Edited June 18 by smashdn

[jcook10]

Maybe to piggyback off the last post regarding Primo growth regulator. Would this sort of product contribute to the overall "firmness" of a course? My course is a sand based prairie style course in Illinois that struggles with firmness. The course is only 25 years old so maybe that is another contributing factor. If the humidity gets to a point where you can feel it in the air our turf becomes a sponge. What can be done to improve the firmness of fairways, green approaches, etc.

[Nels55]

The sand traps at my course are pretty bad.  It can look like the ball is in soft sand and feel like soft sand under foot but it is in fact hardpan where the ball is.  So, my question is what would be the cheapest type of power rake or sand pro?

[Holy Moses]

7 hours ago, jcook10 said:

Maybe to piggyback off the last post regarding Primo growth regulator. Would this sort of product contribute to the overall "firmness" of a course? My course is a sand based prairie style course in Illinois that struggles with firmness. The course is only 25 years old so maybe that is another contributing factor. If the humidity gets to a point where you can feel it in the air our turf becomes a sponge. What can be done to improve the firmness of fairways, green approaches, etc.

Do they aerate these spots yearly?

[jcook10]

4 minutes ago, Holy Moses said:

Do they aerate these spots yearly?

Yes the fairways get punched with plugs pulled every fall. It’s something with the Midwest humidity that turns the turf into this soft sponge thing. If it’s just weather then I get it but I’ve played some fairly firm Florida courses

[mallrat]

On 6/17/2025 at 9:40 AM, iporcinis said:

Haha no but I know the place you are referring to. The club I'm at is a very much mid/lower-tier country club, not anything exclusive or high end or $$. We've had good supers in the past (again to my novice eye) and I'm sure we do not have the budget for a good agronomy staff and probably cut corners on maintenance, but the greens this year seems noticeably worse than years past.

 

One other fun fact I forgot to mention - we noticed this year that all of the old hole locations on the greens turned into dead spots. So you'd go onto any green on the course and easily be able to see 5 or so old hole locations that were all dead. I don't know what caused it but apparently the guy that had doing it had no idea how to do it properly. The issue is not fully resolved either.

Guy cutting cups is leaving the plugs too high and they are getting scalped.