Pga Championship moving to may

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

The PGA is moving to may. Geoff shackleford mentioned new venues could be in AZ, CA, TX & Florida.

 

What valley courses are potential hosts for a PGA Championship or web.com tour event? Hopefully not TPC, so many better courses here in AZ. I'll start it off:

 

TPC-boring but can handle the big crowds no problem

 

We ko pa & Wildfire-too easy & short

 

Desert Mountain-nice but secluded. They bused all spectators in from the carefree airport for the PGA tour champions. Too many people for a major to do this.

 

Whisper Rock-would they have any desire to host? Challenging layout & practice facilities are great. I'm guessing the lower course would be easier to walk.

 

Quintero-no room for spectators

 

I think the best case scenario is southern dunes landing a web.com tour event in the spring or fall. The only issues I see are finding a sponsor, build additional locker rooms & rural/lack of hotels (it's an easy drive from sky harbor tho)

[One_Putt_Blunder]

See my twitter thread with Shane Bacon lol

 

https://twitter.com/...662261242908675

 

 

I don't think many privates would want to host to be honest. Maybe Parsons for his ego at Scottsdale National, not sure if infrastructure would work or room for spectators though

 

In all seriousness the only real tournament quality venue other than TPC that could hold a fair amount of spectators is Southern Dunes. It would actually be a pretty viable option too.

 

1: Skip winter overseed on rough and fairways. This way the firm and fast aspect returns, the bermuda comes back in March and April nice and thick they can get the rough to 4-6 inches to make it interesting.

2: Pinch the fairways in with rough to narrow the landing corridors

3: Winning score could still push -15 to -20 although the May winds that can kick up could make things interesting.

 

 

I think So Cal and Nor Cal have some more viable options

 

Torrey, Riviera, LACC, Maybe Bel Air once the restoration is done Olympic, Spyglass, SF GC or Cal Club, The Institute once it is done. Possibly MPCC.

[az2au]

Phoenix Country Club is hosting the Schwab Cup the next two years (at a minimum) but there's no way that they could play even a regular tour event there because it is simply too short for today's pros.

 

None of the Desert Mountain courses would even remotely challenge PGA Tour Players. The problems they present are not problems that PGA Tour Players have. Desert Forest could do it but we'd still struggle with getting enough people out there. Southern Dunes is probably the most realistic public course. Scottsdale National would have a similar problem to Desert Forest. Whisper Rock-Lower might work but Upper is way too easy. Same for Mirabel and Estancia.

[ferrispgm]

Southern Dunes was my first thought but the location is horrendous unless they added a hotel or two. Trilogy at Vistancia?

[pappaf2]

 

 

I think So Cal and Nor Cal have some more viable options

 

Torrey, Riviera, LACC, Maybe Bel Air once the restoration is done Olympic, Spyglass, SF GC or Cal Club, The Institute once it is done. Possibly MPCC.

 

They could also use Cordevalle as it has shown it can host PGA event and LPGA US Open.

 

I would love to see them use the Institute.

[vallygolf]

Solid track few have heard of here in the east valley. Greenfield Lakes. Not sure if you have ever played it, but I think it would be worth considering. ;)

[vallygolf]

Probably southern dunes would have the best chance, but as noted would have to play firm with reduced landing areas. I think Chaparral Pines could be lengthend a bit to 7200, and would present a bit of a challenge. Some goofy holes though. Too much resort style golf in the public realm. Most likely would have to be a private willing to change playing conditions. I agree that skipping the overseed (greens not included) would probably be a must.

[DrSchteeve]

Dove Mountain? Not a valley course but has history with WGC tournaments.

[golfandfishing]

Probably southern dunes would have the best chance, but as noted would have to play firm with reduced landing areas. I think Chaparral Pines could be lengthend a bit to 7200, and would present a bit of a challenge. Some goofy holes though. Too much resort style golf in the public realm. Most likely would have to be a private willing to change playing conditions. I agree that skipping the overseed (greens not included) would probably be a must.

 

Not sure how chap pines could host - too easy and couldn't fit more than 2 or 3 spectators on the course. Payson doesn't have enough hotel rooms for production crew, players and caddies much less any fans. So -30 wins, and no one sees it.

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

Dove Mountain? Not a valley course but has history with WGC tournaments.

 

 

Didn't the pros hate it? I actually think the gallery south is a better course.

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

Southern Dunes was my first thought but the location is horrendous unless they added a hotel or two. Trilogy at Vistancia?

 

Vistancia-decent course but far away, easy and not in my top 25 courses in the state.

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

Phoenix Country Club is hosting the Schwab Cup the next two years (at a minimum) but there's no way that they could play even a regular tour event there because it is simply too short for today's pros.

 

None of the Desert Mountain courses would even remotely challenge PGA Tour Players. The problems they present are not problems that PGA Tour Players have. Desert Forest could do it but we'd still struggle with getting enough people out there. Southern Dunes is probably the most realistic public course. Scottsdale National would have a similar problem to Desert Forest. Whisper Rock-Lower might work but Upper is way too easy. Same for Mirabel and Estancia.

 

Does desert forest have enough room for parking, hospitality tents, grandstands...? Looking at the scorecard it seems like it would be challenging enough: 7200 yds, 75 course rating, 149 slope rating. What would the winning score be & does membership have any desire to host a big tournament?

[az2au]

Phoenix Country Club is hosting the Schwab Cup the next two years (at a minimum) but there's no way that they could play even a regular tour event there because it is simply too short for today's pros.

 

None of the Desert Mountain courses would even remotely challenge PGA Tour Players. The problems they present are not problems that PGA Tour Players have. Desert Forest could do it but we'd still struggle with getting enough people out there. Southern Dunes is probably the most realistic public course. Scottsdale National would have a similar problem to Desert Forest. Whisper Rock-Lower might work but Upper is way too easy. Same for Mirabel and Estancia.

 

Does desert forest have enough room for parking, hospitality tents, grandstands...? Looking at the scorecard it seems like it would be challenging enough: 7200 yds, 75 course rating, 149 slope rating. What would the winning score be & does membership have any desire to host a big tournament?

No and I don't think there's any sort of interest. I have no idea what the score could be but Bubba held our course record before we made it harder at 62. Since then it is 64 unless something changed in the last few weeks. I would guess under tournament setup you'd be looking at -10 to -12.

[fore_life]

Pga should run Apache stronghold,

[Shilgy]

I don't believe there is a course in the state that could provide both a good enough test and have room for the infrastructure needed for a major. Unless they did something to trick up the TPC I suppose.

[ferrispgm]

I actually wouldn't mind them trying TPC...firm fairways/greens and thicker rough....Could actually be a decent challenge. The only thing I would hate is if they put the grand stands on 16...which I'm assuming they wouldn't have those for a PGA.

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

I actually wouldn't mind them trying TPC...firm fairways/greens and thicker rough....Could actually be a decent challenge. The only thing I would hate is if they put the grand stands on 16...which I'm assuming they wouldn't have those for a PGA.

 

It's a pedestrian course for the first 13 holes. The church pews on 18 are contrived.

[teejaywhy]

Could Papago at >7300 yards be a test?

[Shilgy]

Papago could barely handle the poorly attended LPGA event there a few years ago. They certainly could not handle the crowds, tents, media for a men's major.

[Will Par]

I think a good argument could be made for the PGA to pick one great course and play there every year to build a legacy like the Masters has at Augusta. Riviera would be perfect since it has already hosted a PGA Championship and since it is already scheduled every year. Decent weather would be a given and they can make it as difficult as they choose.

[jewofgolf]

Could Papago at >7300 yards be a test?

 

Maybe if they convert 9 and 18 into par 4's and make it par 70. But still, papago just isn't that challenging once you learn to read the greens. There isn't enough slope in the greens and the greenside hazards are not severe enough.

 

I think if any course in the Phoenix area could challenge the pga tour pros it would be Southern Dunes from all the way back with the fairways narrowed. SD is a 2nd shot course and lets you get away with a lot as it's presented. But if the fairways were 10 yards smaller on each side with thick bermuda rough it would be different I think. The greens would have to be very firm and if so then less shots could be taken right at the hole. Players would have to use the slopes and work the ball.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

After watching the Walker Cup today my vote goes to LACC

[az2au]

Could Papago at >7300 yards be a test?

 

Maybe if they convert 9 and 18 into par 4's and make it par 70. But still, papago just isn't that challenging once you learn to read the greens. There isn't enough slope in the greens and the greenside hazards are not severe enough.

 

I think if any course in the Phoenix area could challenge the pga tour pros it would be Southern Dunes from all the way back with the fairways narrowed. SD is a 2nd shot course and lets you get away with a lot as it's presented. But if the fairways were 10 yards smaller on each side with thick bermuda rough it would be different I think. The greens would have to be very firm and if so then less shots could be taken right at the hole. Players would have to use the slopes and work the ball.

That's no different than can be said for 10-12 other courses in the area though. Southern Dunes may be the only public one that could do but I doubt it. You could make Quintero unreasonably hard as well.

[jewofgolf]

Could Papago at >7300 yards be a test?

 

Maybe if they convert 9 and 18 into par 4's and make it par 70. But still, papago just isn't that challenging once you learn to read the greens. There isn't enough slope in the greens and the greenside hazards are not severe enough.

 

I think if any course in the Phoenix area could challenge the pga tour pros it would be Southern Dunes from all the way back with the fairways narrowed. SD is a 2nd shot course and lets you get away with a lot as it's presented. But if the fairways were 10 yards smaller on each side with thick bermuda rough it would be different I think. The greens would have to be very firm and if so then less shots could be taken right at the hole. Players would have to use the slopes and work the ball.

That's no different than can be said for 10-12 other courses in the area though. Southern Dunes may be the only public one that could do but I doubt it. You could make Quintero unreasonably hard as well.

 

Agree on Quintero. Tee to green its very challenging. The greens would need to be extremely fast since they are pretty flat, but the PGA Championship doesn't need to defend par the way the US Open does.

 

I'm sure you could put 4 pins very close to green edges and make it a challenge. 10 is a par 4 for pros and perhaps 2 could be made about 510 and played as a par 4.

[Shilgy]

Quintero is a great example of a course in the valley that possibly it could be made difficult enough. But where in the heck would you put a decent amount of fans?

[kgeisler13]

It opens up the door for a ton more courses but at the same time I think it means they will shy away from midwest and east coast courses because the weather may be sketchy. I am from Michigan and I'd love to see a US Open or PGA come back but May in Michigan isn't always nice enough for a major championship

[raynorfan1]

After watching the Walker Cup today my vote goes to LACC

 

Would be nice, but less than zero chance of this.

 

It will be interesting to see if Riviera flips back to the PGA with LACC hosting the US Open in a couple of years.

[littleinjunp]

Southern Dunes is waaaayyyy too easy for a top touring pro. There's what, 8 holes that are auto-birdies for a top-20 player in the world? Finishing scores would be 20 - or perhaps 25 - under or better, multiple records - both single-round and tournament-long - would be broken, and AZ would prob never get a major again.

 

I like the course - it's great for 0-10 handicappers and a major challenge for anyone worse, but not nearly tough enough for the best players around

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Not even sure my suggestions about Southern Dunes would be enough to toughen the course up for a PGA. They would need to get borderline Mike Davis crazy to defend par. The only hope would be the traditional strong late spring winds

 

https://pgatq.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/pgatq17/event/pgatq1714/contest/1/leaderboard.htm

 

-21 after 3 rounds leads Web. Q School qualifier. -8 is T20 after 54 holes

[DrSchteeve]

Not even sure my suggestions about Southern Dunes would be enough to toughen the course up for a PGA. They would need to get borderline Mike Davis crazy to defend par. The only hope would be the traditional strong late spring winds

 

https://pgatq.bluego...leaderboard.htm

 

-21 after 3 rounds leads Web. Q School qualifier. -8 is T20 after 54 holes

 

The only way I could see it is to narrow the fairways artificially by letting the rough grow to hack it out heights, which would completely destroy the way SD is meant to be played.