Etiquette question about teeing off

[HatsForBats]

If the group in the fairway starts moving, then we hit. If they are waiting, so are we. All you can do is spook them, and for what? The benefits being bandied about here are quite small, frankly, with far too much downside.

 

Rather than hitting the second they are clear of the perceived landing zone, why don't people actually just step up and hit the ball when it is their turn rather than their minute long pre shot routines? Not "pressing forward" is not the problem. Not getting on with it when it's time is.

 

And agreed on ready golf with one exception: don't step in front of a birdie. Bad karma if you do.

 

If I am waiting throughout the round the last things I want to do is rush a shot after having to wait and to be stuck with a bunch of 'ready golfers' that don't need to be playing ready golf. No sense in hurrying up just to make the wait longer on the next shot. Would much rather try to space it out so that the wait is not as long. Having been stuck with some 'hurry up and wait' golfers on crowded days I probably drove them a bit nutty. The more they hurried up the more I had to slow down my routine to balance them out.

 

Maybe for you just getting up and hitting works, it does for one of the guys I play with, but for me the longer I wait the longer I need to get some of my swing back. No sense in starting the pre-shot routine when you have no idea how long the group in front will be there.

[2bGood]

 

 

sure 100 yards yes... BUT if you can see the group from the box how many times is there going to be a 100 yard cushion? maybe 1 in 100? it would need to be the perfect storm of a 500 yard hole where the group in the fairway hit it 340 and the group on the box is going to hit it 240..... not to common... more common will be where the guys in the fairway hit it 265 and are standing near the 150 marker waiting to hit and the guys on the box says " i would have to hit a perfect ball to get to the 150...i normally am laying 175 out here so im going ahead"...... guy hits and lands ball 20 yards behind group whos in the fairway... is this cool? not in my book.... to many variables that could lead to someone getting hit at worst or a ball landing close while a guy is in his backswing.... best... but still something that shouldnt be OK..

 

Like I said I play with lots of older players who can barely hit it out of their shadow. A 180-yard drive is good for them. Given the average age of golfers, I really don't think it is that uncommon to have a very short hitter in a group. It is not that unusual and you don't need that much of perfect storm. Just one long hitter in the group ahead and one short hitter in the group behind. If you have that combination it will come up on nearly every par 5 or long par 4.

 

I admit though I probably play with a bigger diversity of players, as I have regular playing partners who are as young 12 and as old as 90.

 

Anyhow, I still contend that you pick a safe distance and then hit.

[bladehunter]

 

 

sure 100 yards yes... BUT if you can see the group from the box how many times is there going to be a 100 yard cushion? maybe 1 in 100? it would need to be the perfect storm of a 500 yard hole where the group in the fairway hit it 340 and the group on the box is going to hit it 240..... not to common... more common will be where the guys in the fairway hit it 265 and are standing near the 150 marker waiting to hit and the guys on the box says " i would have to hit a perfect ball to get to the 150...i normally am laying 175 out here so im going ahead"...... guy hits and lands ball 20 yards behind group whos in the fairway... is this cool? not in my book.... to many variables that could lead to someone getting hit at worst or a ball landing close while a guy is in his backswing.... best... but still something that shouldnt be OK..

 

Like I said I play with lots of older players who can barely hit it out of their shadow. A 180-yard drive is good for them. Given the average age of golfers, I really don't think it is that uncommon to have a very short hitter in a group. It is not that unusual and you don't need that much of perfect storm. Just one long hitter in the group ahead and one short hitter in the group behind. If you have that combination it will come up on nearly every par 5 or long par 4.

 

I admit though I probably play with a bigger diversity of players, as I have regular playing partners who are as young 12 and as old as 90.

 

Anyhow, I still contend that you pick a safe distance and then hit.

 

Sure. I agree with you on the point as a whole. It's like anything. Common sense will work 100% of the time. Trouble is it isn't common. Lol.

[VNutz]

Absolutely no reason for this confrontation to happen on the 18th tee. Earlier in the round with a slow pace, maybe a discussion, but not heated. Group 2 should suck it up for a hole and deal with it. Pressing forward, while it might work for that one hole, can create an even deeper backup later on if the cause of the jam doesn't increase their pace.

[TollBros]

I'd prefer to hit to press them to keep Pace but I've seen carts driving BACK at me far too many times to not let them clear completely. A lot of people aren't concious of much that isn't in their own personal bubble.

[Nessism]

Group 2 should suck it up for a hole and deal with it. Pressing forward, while it might work for that one hole, can create an even deeper backup later on if the cause of the jam doesn't increase their pace.

 

How can pressing forward cause backups later?

 

Simple reality is that some players have no sense of urgency to move along and they don't care if people back up behind them. For every course that is running 4.5 hours + there will be some of these groups slowing things down. What to do? One thing I know that won't work is to slow down and give players like this more space. Do that and they may slow down further and now the course is at 5+ hours.

[VNutz]

Group 2 should suck it up for a hole and deal with it. Pressing forward, while it might work for that one hole, can create an even deeper backup later on if the cause of the jam doesn't increase their pace.

 

How can pressing forward cause backups later?

 

Simple reality is that some players have no sense of urgency to move along and they don't care if people back up behind them. For every course that is running 4.5 hours + there will be some of these groups slowing things down. What to do? One thing I know that won't work is to slow down and give players like this more space. Do that and they may slow down further and now the course is at 5+ hours.

 

I understand the dislike of slow pace of play, I truly do. But what good does pressing forward and squeezing more people into a likely already contentious situation do? If you're cruising down the highway and suddenly run into a backup, do you ride the bumper in front of you and encourage others to do the same? No, you pace it out. Squeeze one group into a hole just so they don't have to wait, and said group behind them does the same and suddenly there's 6 groups on 2 holes when pacing it out wouldn't have fixed the situation, but would have made it less contentious. All pressing forward does is temporarily relieve impatience and encourage hostility down the line as that logjam isn't going to clear sooner because you push. It creates confrontation with those around your group who may not care for someone pushing up on them, when in reality that group isn't the problem, and the group in front of them isn't the problem, and so on. If you KNOW for certain the group ahead is the problem, then push on them a little, or better yet politely mention it if you get the chance, but generally pushing on people doesn't work very well.

 

I had this same scenario last round of golf I played. Morning tee time on a Saturday, a group about an hour or so ahead of mine slowed everything down, backed up the whole course. Behind my group was a group of 3 that not only were shorter hitters than us, but with 3 people they played faster than our 4. On every tee they rode up as we were taking off, on some holes they teed off while we were waiting in the fairway, it was awkward to have people sitting and waiting on us, it made us feel like we were the problem when in reality there was nothing we could do. It didn't speed up anything to press forward, doing so was just hurry up and to wait. Fortunately after a little while I struck up conversation with them and they were completely fine and understood. But if you get the wrong people with the wrong mentality of "me and my pace of play come first," as seen in the OP's experience, you'll have bigger trouble than simply pace of play.

[chippa13]

Group 2 should suck it up for a hole and deal with it. Pressing forward, while it might work for that one hole, can create an even deeper backup later on if the cause of the jam doesn't increase their pace.

 

How can pressing forward cause backups later?

 

Simple reality is that some players have no sense of urgency to move along and they don't care if people back up behind them. For every course that is running 4.5 hours + there will be some of these groups slowing things down. What to do? One thing I know that won't work is to slow down and give players like this more space. Do that and they may slow down further and now the course is at 5+ hours.

 

Pressing forward into a group that is waiting on another group will only cause the group behind you to join in the logjam and before you know it the whole course is backed up.

[szaino]

If the group in front is out of range, I don't understand why this is even a question?

 

Also perfectly OK to let a shorter hitter in your group hit first if the group in front is out of that particular players range. It's all part of playing ready golf.

and there lies the problem!

 

just wait, its only a few more seconds and the group in front doesnt get flustered by balls landing near them, it does put you off I assure you, you then wait to see the next guy drive in case he reaches you etc etc

 

so just wait and not only will you enjoy your round but so will others

 

If balls are landing near the group in front, then they are not out of range.

you are contradicting yourself

 

I am not contradicting myself.

 

We just need to agree on what out of range means. Out of range means that you won't hit them or have balls rolling up near enough to them to distract them if they are playing a shot.

[Nessism]

Group 2 should suck it up for a hole and deal with it. Pressing forward, while it might work for that one hole, can create an even deeper backup later on if the cause of the jam doesn't increase their pace.

 

How can pressing forward cause backups later?

 

Simple reality is that some players have no sense of urgency to move along and they don't care if people back up behind them. For every course that is running 4.5 hours + there will be some of these groups slowing things down. What to do? One thing I know that won't work is to slow down and give players like this more space. Do that and they may slow down further and now the course is at 5+ hours.

 

Pressing forward into a group that is waiting on another group will only cause the group behind you to join in the logjam and before you know it the whole course is backed up.

 

Incorrect. If you are waiting for every shot the course is already backed up. Back off and give those guys more room and they will very likely relax backwards and the course will slow down even more.

[North Butte]

How does teeing off SOONER cause a backup but waiting around to tee off cures a backup. That don't make no sense.

[chippa13]

I've seen studies of traffic patterns and guess what, if everyone maintains a speed and gap at a set speed then everyone gets to the end faster than if some go faster and then create backups at bottleneck locations where slower speeds keep everyone moving.

[Nessism]

I've seen studies of traffic patterns and guess what, if everyone maintains a speed and gap at a set speed then everyone gets to the end faster than if some go faster and then create backups at bottleneck locations where slower speeds keep everyone moving.

 

I don't believe it. Besides, car traffic is not the same as a golf course.

 

Courses get slow because there are slow players clogging things up. Played last week where we completed the front 9 in about 1:35. Back 9 was much slower. More than 2 hours. There was a group just ahead of us that had open course in front of them, at least a hole. These guys just didn't care. We got right on their a$s and they sped up some. Very frustrating.

[Noles]

For the people that are making the case that pressing forward is appropriate, how did it help in this situation? Both groups ended up together on the 18th tee. So what was gained? There was nowhere to go.

[wobgon]

Any chance we are over thinking this just a bit? I have been playing this game for a lot of years and i have found that, sometimes you should go ahead and hit, and sometimes you should not.....The situation in front of you will answer the question for most reasonable players.

[LeoLeo99]

For the people that are making the case that pressing forward is appropriate, how did it help in this situation? Both groups ended up together on the 18th tee. So what was gained? There was nowhere to go.

 

You didn't press forward. You had a confrontation with the people behind you.

 

If you did press forward, you wouldn't have had a confrontation with the people behind you and there was a chance the people in front of you would have tried to play faster knowing the group behind them was not lollygagging about.

[LeoLeo99]

Any chance we are over thinking this just a bit? I have been playing this game for a lot of years and i have found that, sometimes you should go ahead and hit, and sometimes you should not.....The situation in front of you will answer the question for most reasonable players.

 

Agreed. I had a 5 hour round today and this thread was in the back of my mind at times. My group was the slow group. So, so slow. We had a beginner with us. She picked up almost every hole and dropped on the green to get some putting experience in. Two holes opened up in front of us at one point on the back. I think the group behind us was getting annoyed. They teed off when I was addressing my approach shot. My wrx distance off the tee kept me out of harm's way. They couldn't reach me and they sliced into the pond. It didn't seem out of the ordinary to me. I waited on a par 5 for the group ahead to clear, hit it pretty well and came up 70 yards short.

 

P.s. we caught the group ahead of us on 18 and had to wait to tee off.

[Noles]

For the people that are making the case that pressing forward is appropriate, how did it help in this situation? Both groups ended up together on the 18th tee. So what was gained? There was nowhere to go.

 

You didn't press forward. You had a confrontation with the people behind you.

 

If you did press forward, you wouldn't have had a confrontation with the people behind you and there was a chance the people in front of you would have tried to play faster knowing the group behind them was not lollygagging about.

That's not even close to accurate. The group in front of me waited on the 18th tee for at least 5 minutes. I waited for longer than that. Again, where is anybody going?

[Hot Rod 71]

For the people that are making the case that pressing forward is appropriate, how did it help in this situation? Both groups ended up together on the 18th tee. So what was gained? There was nowhere to go.

 

You didn't press forward. You had a confrontation with the people behind you.

 

If you did press forward, you wouldn't have had a confrontation with the people behind you and there was a chance the people in front of you would have tried to play faster knowing the group behind them was not lollygagging about.

 

If he and his group had pressed forward, and their tee shots landed too closely to the group in front (still occupying the fairway and still waiting for the green to clear), there may have been a confrontation there.

 

Again, the group in the fairway is not the reason for the slow play - remember, they are waiting, too. Hitting up on them solves nothing. They are trapped.

[LeoLeo99]

For the people that are making the case that pressing forward is appropriate, how did it help in this situation? Both groups ended up together on the 18th tee. So what was gained? There was nowhere to go.

 

You didn't press forward. You had a confrontation with the people behind you.

 

If you did press forward, you wouldn't have had a confrontation with the people behind you and there was a chance the people in front of you would have tried to play faster knowing the group behind them was not lollygagging about.

 

If he and his group had pressed forward, and their tee shots landed too closely to the group in front (still occupying the fairway and still waiting for the green to clear), there may have been a confrontation there.

 

Again, the group in the fairway is not the reason for the slow play - remember, they are waiting, too. Hitting up on them solves nothing. They are trapped.

 

We can only speculate but since the ruffians accosted Noles on the tee asking, "What are you waiting for?" and the reply wasn't "They're still in our range and it wouldn't be safe to hit." I will conclude the reason for Noles not teeing off was based on his principle that no two groups should be in fairway at the same time and not based on safety considerations.

[Noles]

For the people that are making the case that pressing forward is appropriate, how did it help in this situation? Both groups ended up together on the 18th tee. So what was gained? There was nowhere to go.

 

You didn't press forward. You had a confrontation with the people behind you.

 

If you did press forward, you wouldn't have had a confrontation with the people behind you and there was a chance the people in front of you would have tried to play faster knowing the group behind them was not lollygagging about.

 

If he and his group had pressed forward, and their tee shots landed too closely to the group in front (still occupying the fairway and still waiting for the green to clear), there may have been a confrontation there.

 

Again, the group in the fairway is not the reason for the slow play - remember, they are waiting, too. Hitting up on them solves nothing. They are trapped.

 

We can only speculate but since the ruffians accosted Noles on the tee asking, "What are you waiting for?" and the reply wasn't "They're still in our range and it wouldn't be safe to hit." I will conclude the reason for Noles not teeing off was based on his principle that no two groups should be in fairway at the same time and not based on safety considerations.

"What's the hold up?" was what was said to me. The group in front of us was clearly in our range still and for at least a few more minutes. I guess we should have hit our 9 irons of the 18th tee just to press them forward a little bit.

[LeoLeo99]

For the people that are making the case that pressing forward is appropriate, how did it help in this situation? Both groups ended up together on the 18th tee. So what was gained? There was nowhere to go.

 

You didn't press forward. You had a confrontation with the people behind you.

 

If you did press forward, you wouldn't have had a confrontation with the people behind you and there was a chance the people in front of you would have tried to play faster knowing the group behind them was not lollygagging about.

 

If he and his group had pressed forward, and their tee shots landed too closely to the group in front (still occupying the fairway and still waiting for the green to clear), there may have been a confrontation there.

 

Again, the group in the fairway is not the reason for the slow play - remember, they are waiting, too. Hitting up on them solves nothing. They are trapped.

 

We can only speculate but since the ruffians accosted Noles on the tee asking, "What are you waiting for?" and the reply wasn't "They're still in our range and it wouldn't be safe to hit." I will conclude the reason for Noles not teeing off was based on his principle that no two groups should be in fairway at the same time and not based on safety considerations.

"What's the hold up?" was what was said to me. The group in front of us was clearly in our range still and for at least a few more minutes. I guess we should have hit our 9 irons of the 18th tee just to press them forward a little bit.

 

That contradicts what you wrote in your original post. I think we'll never know what really happened.

 

"Group 2 is on the tee of the the same par 4 but cannot reach group 1 with their drives. Should group 2 go ahead and start teeing off or should group 2 wait and allow group 1 to hit their second shots and drive away?"

[sbboudreau]

If the group in the fairway is waiting for the green to clear to hit their second shot you must wait. If the green has been clear and the group in the fairway is just playing slow hit your ball and let them know they need to quicken the pace. But if you come close to a player with your tee shot you may create an unwanted response, i.e. Your ball goes missing or a confrontation on the course, both are not desirable consequences for being in a hurry. We golf to relax and enjoy time away from the crap life brings us daily. Why would anyone want to create a situation that is undesirable. Relax people and enjoy your round.

[North Butte]

"What's the hold up?" was what was said to me. The group in front of us was clearly in our range still and for at least a few more minutes. I guess we should have hit our 9 irons of the 18th tee just to press them forward a little bit.

 

That contradicts what you wrote in your original post. I think we'll never know what really happened.

 

"Group 2 is on the tee of the the same par 4 but cannot reach group 1 with their drives. Should group 2 go ahead and start teeing off or should group 2 wait and allow group 1 to hit their second shots and drive away?"

 

You're right, it's no longer a good-faith discussion. Just argument for argument's sake. I'm out.

[Hot Rod 71]

Let's look at this from a slightly different perspective - if you were the group in the fairway waiting for the green to clear, and you are 100-125 yards out waiting to approach the green and first you hear four balls hitting behind you in various locations, then you look back two minutes later and see that the group behind you is now standing on the 150 yard marking waiting, how would you feel about that?

[North Butte]

As long as no ball rolled up to ny feet that would totally normal behavior at my club.

[Noles]

"What's the hold up?" was what was said to me. The group in front of us was clearly in our range still and for at least a few more minutes. I guess we should have hit our 9 irons of the 18th tee just to press them forward a little bit.

 

That contradicts what you wrote in your original post. I think we'll never know what really happened.

 

"Group 2 is on the tee of the the same par 4 but cannot reach group 1 with their drives. Should group 2 go ahead and start teeing off or should group 2 wait and allow group 1 to hit their second shots and drive away?"

 

You're right, it's no longer a good-faith discussion. Just argument for argument's sake. I'm out.

He's wrong. The OP was not even about the 18th hole. The scenario described in the OP happened earlier in the round.

[Shilgy]

Any chance we are over thinking this just a bit? I have been playing this game for a lot of years and i have found that, sometimes you should go ahead and hit, and sometimes you should not.....The situation in front of you will answer the question for most reasonable players.

 

Agreed. I had a 5 hour round today and this thread was in the back of my mind at times. My group was the slow group. So, so slow. We had a beginner with us. She picked up almost every hole and dropped on the green to get some putting experience in. Two holes opened up in front of us at one point on the back. I think the group behind us was getting annoyed. They teed off when I was addressing my approach shot. My wrx distance off the tee kept me out of harm's way. They couldn't reach me and they sliced into the pond. It didn't seem out of the ordinary to me. I waited on a par 5 for the group ahead to clear, hit it pretty well and came up 70 yards short.

 

P.s. we caught the group ahead of us on 18 and had to wait to tee off.

Why are you waiting on a par five that as good hit is 70 yards short? That's sort if the discussion here. Of you are going to hit into or even bother the group ahead you should not hit. 70 yards is a wee bit too much cushion. :) Even with your wrx distance.

[LeoLeo99]

Any chance we are over thinking this just a bit? I have been playing this game for a lot of years and i have found that, sometimes you should go ahead and hit, and sometimes you should not.....The situation in front of you will answer the question for most reasonable players.

 

Agreed. I had a 5 hour round today and this thread was in the back of my mind at times. My group was the slow group. So, so slow. We had a beginner with us. She picked up almost every hole and dropped on the green to get some putting experience in. Two holes opened up in front of us at one point on the back. I think the group behind us was getting annoyed. They teed off when I was addressing my approach shot. My wrx distance off the tee kept me out of harm's way. They couldn't reach me and they sliced into the pond. It didn't seem out of the ordinary to me. I waited on a par 5 for the group ahead to clear, hit it pretty well and came up 70 yards short.

 

P.s. we caught the group ahead of us on 18 and had to wait to tee off.

Why are you waiting on a par five that as good hit is 70 yards short? That's sort if the discussion here. Of you are going to hit into or even bother the group ahead you should not hit. 70 yards is a wee bit too much cushion. :) Even with your wrx distance.

 

A great hit would have only been 20 yards short and the way the hole was laid out, the folks parked their carts another 10 yards closer to me. (Yes, I can hit a 3w between 180 and 250). But I'm not sure that's what we're talking about here.

 

The ladies I was with were so slow it just didn't make any sense to risk it. They were surely hitting up. About 12 shots to get close to the green if we were lucky. But they were so nice! Never saw someone so happy to shoot 200. In fact, never saw someone so happy just to be alive and healthy enough to play golf.

 

 

[sailfishchris]

I always wait. No point in hitting up on someone. Bad enough you get the random flier -slice or hook -coming at you from an adjacent fairway. An extra minute on 18 holes is 18 minutes. Most days after 10-12 holes courses open up anyways