PGA vs. LPGA Battle of the Sexes

[isaacbm]

Using only the men's course ratings as an apples to apples comparison, the top men on the PGA tour have a scoring average nearly 7 shots under the average course rating. The top women's scoring average is between two and three under their respective course ratings.

 

Best men in the world are approximately four full shots better from the same tees.

[Shilgy]

Using only the men's course ratings as an apples to apples comparison, the top men on the PGA tour have a scoring average nearly 7 shots under the average course rating. The top women's scoring average is between two and three under their respective course ratings.

 

Best men in the world are approximately four full shots better from the same tees.

No one is saying that they are apples to apples Isaac. Both tours the top players average high 68's low 69's. Some of the comments in here are the same misongynistic babble we had in the 4 cap playing the lady. As if the 4 could hang if given a long hard course lol. Yes the typical course setup on the pga is more difficult than the typical ladies setup. Considering length though the men's is often set up shorter than the ladies. The ladies play a lot more 6500+ courses than the men play almost 7700. Using the 15% difference they hit it that is what they should be.

So apples to oranges, aka respective tees, the women would do just fine. This isn't tennis or soccer. No one's playing defense lol.

[isaacbm]

Using only the men's course ratings as an apples to apples comparison, the top men on the PGA tour have a scoring average nearly 7 shots under the average course rating. The top women's scoring average is between two and three under their respective course ratings.

 

Best men in the world are approximately four full shots better from the same tees.

No one is saying that they are apples to apples Isaac. Both tours the top players average high 68's low 69's. Some of the comments in here are the same misongynistic babble we had in the 4 cap playing the lady. As if the 4 could hang if given a long hard course lol. Yes the typical course setup on the pga is more difficult than the typical ladies setup. Considering length though the men's is often set up shorter than the ladies. The ladies play a lot more 6500+ courses than the men play almost 7700. Using the 15% difference they hit it that is what they should be.

So apples to oranges, aka respective tees, the women would do just fine. This isn't tennis or soccer. No one's playing defense lol.

 

My bad... I missed the part about different tees

[lowheel]

Using only the men's course ratings as an apples to apples comparison, the top men on the PGA tour have a scoring average nearly 7 shots under the average course rating. The top women's scoring average is between two and three under their respective course ratings.

 

Best men in the world are approximately four full shots better from the same tees.

No one is saying that they are apples to apples Isaac. Both tours the top players average high 68's low 69's. Some of the comments in here are the same misongynistic babble we had in the 4 cap playing the lady. As if the 4 could hang if given a long hard course lol. Yes the typical course setup on the pga is more difficult than the typical ladies setup. Considering length though the men's is often set up shorter than the ladies. The ladies play a lot more 6500+ courses than the men play almost 7700. Using the 15% difference they hit it that is what they should be.

So apples to oranges, aka respective tees, the women would do just fine. This isn't tennis or soccer. No one's playing defense lol.

 

What???

 

Also I havent seen any misogynistic comments in this thread. Could you point me to one?

[Shilgy]

Using only the men's course ratings as an apples to apples comparison, the top men on the PGA tour have a scoring average nearly 7 shots under the average course rating. The top women's scoring average is between two and three under their respective course ratings.

 

Best men in the world are approximately four full shots better from the same tees.

No one is saying that they are apples to apples Isaac. Both tours the top players average high 68's low 69's. Some of the comments in here are the same misongynistic babble we had in the 4 cap playing the lady. As if the 4 could hang if given a long hard course lol. Yes the typical course setup on the pga is more difficult than the typical ladies setup. Considering length though the men's is often set up shorter than the ladies. The ladies play a lot more 6500+ courses than the men play almost 7700. Using the 15% difference they hit it that is what they should be.

So apples to oranges, aka respective tees, the women would do just fine. This isn't tennis or soccer. No one's playing defense lol.

 

What???

 

Also I havent seen any misogynistic comments in this thread. Could you point me to one?

What? The comments are not strongly prejudiced against women, right? They are just telling the truth? If Rio Secco was a Mickey Mouse course and an easy set up only the women would shoot higher on a harder course? Is that really what I am hearing? Why is it so hard to believe that from the proper tees the women would do fine? I am not saying same tees for both. Oh well. You all remind me of my buddy that hits it 250 tops and declares no woman could out drive him. :)

[nix]

I think a pga/lpga two-man team format would be fun. I like the idea of a crossover.

[Golfingfanatic]

What we also musn't forget is that the top mens players are a lot more athletic than back in the day when that format was played. Their power advantage has become even bigger. Add the modern, forgiving heads that allows them to go even harder at it and I cannot see how a woman would stand a chance against a guy like DJ.

The factor speed cannot be stressed enough, I think. Even if they are in the same spot in the fairway after their tee shots the man still has the advantage. He can hit a wedge where the woman would have to hit a mid iron. The man can get to a tucked pin, because he has more speed and loft helping him spin the ball etc.

[Shilgy]

What we also musn't forget is that the top mens players are a lot more athletic than back in the day when that format was played. Their power advantage has become even bigger. Add the modern, forgiving heads that allows them to go even harder at it and I cannot see how a woman would stand a chance against a guy like DJ.

The factor speed cannot be stressed enough, I think. Even if they are in the same spot in the fairway after their tee shots the man still has the advantage. He can hit a wedge where the woman would have to hit a mid iron. The man can get to a tucked pin, because he has more speed and loft helping him spin the ball etc.

But the idea of equivalent tees does not put them in the same place in the fairway. It leaves them both hitting wedge-or 7 iron- or the same club in as well. And yes the male can hit it higher with more spin etc etc etc.

[Man_O_War]

i will like to see a joint tournament at some venues...like Harbour Town

[m d g]

What we also musn't forget is that the top mens players are a lot more athletic than back in the day when that format was played. Their power advantage has become even bigger. Add the modern, forgiving heads that allows them to go even harder at it and I cannot see how a woman would stand a chance against a guy like DJ.

The factor speed cannot be stressed enough, I think. Even if they are in the same spot in the fairway after their tee shots the man still has the advantage. He can hit a wedge where the woman would have to hit a mid iron. The man can get to a tucked pin, because he has more speed and loft helping him spin the ball etc.

But the idea of equivalent tees does not put them in the same place in the fairway. It leaves them both hitting wedge-or 7 iron- or the same club in as well. And yes the male can hit it higher with more spin etc etc etc.

 

Exactly. The only way it could be remotely fair is to set the tee boxes to equalize the approach shots using the same loft of club.

[dhc1]

However both tours will agree although the difference has narrowed there are better putters on the pga.

 

We have posters here who insist that it's well known that Inbee is the best putter on the planet, male or female....

[dhc1]

Don't quite understand why this subject, in all of its variations, keeps coming up. Is it some kind of ego stroke?

 

Somewhere, there's a tennis forum where a bunch of guys are trying to figure if Serena could beat Federer if he had to defend the doubles lines instead of the singles.

 

You know where you never see this discussion? On any women's golf/tennis/soccer/volleyball/whatever, forum. Why? Because women understand that they play a different game and they're fine with that.

 

When people talk about a contest between LPGA korean players and their US counterparts is that "some kind of ego stroke" or maybe, just maybe, people would be interested in seeing the outcome? There is a level where if you shorten the tees enough for the ladies, they'll be competitive. Shilgy et al think it's 15%, others seem to indicate that it's significantly more than that. That being said, I don't think any of the PGA pros would be pushing hard to win as it's a bit of lose/lose situation for them. Alternatively, I think it would be quite interesting to watch a four LPGA players play a US Open course on the Monday after a tournament.

[deadsolid...shank]

I'm just sitting here laughing because every thread about the pga tour we have on wrx says the tour boys don't play with any rough and the fairways are too firm. Now that we have a discussion about the girls vs the boys the girls just couldn't hang because of that brutal tour rough. C'mon man! :) This is not a question without an answer. In the three tours challenge that was played for 22 years the men won 9 times and the ladies 6. But the ladies beat the pga tour 13 out of the 22 playings.

So basically given a fair setup it's pretty much a dead heat.

Edit and by fair setup I'm saying, as did the op, tees set up to accommodate the different lengths. The ladies would play about 15% shorter.

 

I've read a lot of times about firm fairways, but I've never read anyone say the PGA doesn't play with any rough.

 

I believe the deciding factor is the firmness of the greens and how much they tuck the pins. As those go up, I think it's skews more towards the men.

[new2g0lf]

Using only the men's course ratings as an apples to apples comparison, the top men on the PGA tour have a scoring average nearly 7 shots under the average course rating. The top women's scoring average is between two and three under their respective course ratings.

 

Best men in the world are approximately four full shots better from the same tees.

No one is saying that they are apples to apples Isaac. Both tours the top players average high 68's low 69's. Some of the comments in here are the same misongynistic babble we had in the 4 cap playing the lady. As if the 4 could hang if given a long hard course lol. Yes the typical course setup on the pga is more difficult than the typical ladies setup. Considering length though the men's is often set up shorter than the ladies. The ladies play a lot more 6500+ courses than the men play almost 7700. Using the 15% difference they hit it that is what they should be.

So apples to oranges, aka respective tees, the women would do just fine. This isn't tennis or soccer. No one's playing defense lol.

 

What???

 

Also I havent seen any misogynistic comments in this thread. Could you point me to one?

What? The comments are not strongly prejudiced against women, right? They are just telling the truth? If Rio Secco was a Mickey Mouse course and an easy set up only the women would shoot higher on a harder course? Is that really what I am hearing? Why is it so hard to believe that from the proper tees the women would do fine? I am not saying same tees for both. Oh well. You all remind me of my buddy that hits it 250 tops and declares no woman could out drive him. :)

It's not misogynistic to speak the truth. Women golfers are not as good as men, it's nothing against women, it's a fact. If you take the Top 5 men and Top 5 women, allowing the women to play from closer tees they wouldn't take one match.

[dhc1]

It's not misogynistic to speak the truth. Women golfers are not as good as men, it's nothing against women, it's a fact. If you take the Top 5 men and Top 5 women, allowing the women to play from closer tees they wouldn't take one match.

 

This isn't correct. There is a distance that will render LPGA pros equal to PGA pros.

 

Here's my best stab at it: If we convert average LPGA players to the men's handicap system, the consensus here is that they'd be approximately +1 to scratch, give or take a stroke on either side. Male professionals are about a +7 or so, so there's a six stroke differential. According to 5-2G of the USGA handicap system, 660 yards of distance is worth 3 strokes off of a course rating so multiplying that by 2 would be about 1300 yards so the women would have to play from about 6000 yards to compete fairly vs. the men.

[Shilgy]

It's not misogynistic to speak the truth. Women golfers are not as good as men, it's nothing against women, it's a fact. If you take the Top 5 men and Top 5 women, allowing the women to play from closer tees they wouldn't take one match.

 

This isn't correct. There is a distance that will render LPGA pros equal to PGA pros.

 

Here's my best stab at it: If we convert average LPGA players to the men's handicap system, the consensus here is that they'd be approximately +1 to scratch, give or take a stroke on either side. Male professionals are about a +7 or so, so there's a six stroke differential. According to 5-2G of the USGA handicap system, 660 yards of distance is worth 3 strokes off of a course rating so multiplying that by 2 would be about 1300 yards so the women would have to play from about 6000 yards to compete fairly vs. the men.

Pretty close to that if the rest of the course is set up the way all of a sudden run off the mill tour stops are with brutal rough and firm greens. The softer the greens the longer the women would play.

 

 

[Shilgy]

However both tours will agree although the difference has narrowed there are better putters on the pga.

 

We have posters here who insist that it's well known that Inbee is the best putter on the planet, male or female....

The only place I've heard that was from golf announcers.

[jmvargas]

i will like to see a joint tournament at some venues...like Harbour Town

 

 

this could work..

 

i would choose a course where both have played a tournament before--pinehurst?--and use the same tees they used before..

 

pick the top 50 or 75 from each tour and play it like a regular tour event..

 

money and scheduling also has to be attractive to attract the top ranking players..

 

what do you think?

 

PS: am pretty sure this can become a reality if the PGA tour and LPGA tour commissioners can get their act together on this..

[theironhorse]

distance, club head speed, spin, loft, height, athleticism - bleh.

 

in the end it would come down to putting. i have absolutely no stats to verify, but simply from my own observations of watching TV golf, PGA Tour guys are way better putters than LPGA Women. i enjoy watching both, and could personally care who "would win," but golf usually ends up a putting contest, no?

[new2g0lf]

It's not misogynistic to speak the truth. Women golfers are not as good as men, it's nothing against women, it's a fact. If you take the Top 5 men and Top 5 women, allowing the women to play from closer tees they wouldn't take one match.

 

This isn't correct. There is a distance that will render LPGA pros equal to PGA pros.

 

Here's my best stab at it: If we convert average LPGA players to the men's handicap system, the consensus here is that they'd be approximately +1 to scratch, give or take a stroke on either side. Male professionals are about a +7 or so, so there's a six stroke differential. According to 5-2G of the USGA handicap system, 660 yards of distance is worth 3 strokes off of a course rating so multiplying that by 2 would be about 1300 yards so the women would have to play from about 6000 yards to compete fairly vs. the men.

 

The distance shouldn't be to equal PGA pro's, it should be relative to how traditional courses are set up. Distance is a skill, if you're going to completely neutralize it, then just have a putting contest, the men will still win.

[lowheel]

Using only the men's course ratings as an apples to apples comparison, the top men on the PGA tour have a scoring average nearly 7 shots under the average course rating. The top women's scoring average is between two and three under their respective course ratings.

 

Best men in the world are approximately four full shots better from the same tees.

No one is saying that they are apples to apples Isaac. Both tours the top players average high 68's low 69's. Some of the comments in here are the same misongynistic babble we had in the 4 cap playing the lady. As if the 4 could hang if given a long hard course lol. Yes the typical course setup on the pga is more difficult than the typical ladies setup. Considering length though the men's is often set up shorter than the ladies. The ladies play a lot more 6500+ courses than the men play almost 7700. Using the 15% difference they hit it that is what they should be.

So apples to oranges, aka respective tees, the women would do just fine. This isn't tennis or soccer. No one's playing defense lol.

 

What???

 

Also I havent seen any misogynistic comments in this thread. Could you point me to one?

What? The comments are not strongly prejudiced against women, right? They are just telling the truth? If Rio Secco was a Mickey Mouse course and an easy set up only the women would shoot higher on a harder course? Is that really what I am hearing? Why is it so hard to believe that from the proper tees the women would do fine? I am not saying same tees for both. Oh well. You all remind me of my buddy that hits it 250 tops and declares no woman could out drive him. :)

 

I gotta say im really disappointed that you believe simply believing that the lpga gals would get killed is misogynist? Honestly, i expected more. i have read absolutely nothing in this thread to indicate these things or attitudes. Your only example is the wendys 3 tour challenge which yes is a ridiculous measuring stick. The setup is easy to allow women to compete. period. even then the men senior and regular tour have won 75% of those as well without their top guys during fred couples silly season. My friend played with seri pak many moons ago in orlando when she was still top 5 in the world. She played her tees and he played his and waxed her by 6 shots.Next day same thing. he like me is just a mini tour pro eventual nationwide tour pro. I really believe you have no clue the conditions the men versus the women play. thats not sexist or misogynist. They are tremendous players but their short game is light years behind the mens. i dont see how you comparing some meathead buddy of yours claiming he can outdrive any woman as whats going on in this thread. Dont take the easy way out claiming sexism, youre better than that and i respect your opinion on this forum.

[CCTxGolf]

What we also musn't forget is that the top mens players are a lot more athletic than back in the day when that format was played. Their power advantage has become even bigger. Add the modern, forgiving heads that allows them to go even harder at it and I cannot see how a woman would stand a chance against a guy like DJ.

The factor speed cannot be stressed enough, I think. Even if they are in the same spot in the fairway after their tee shots the man still has the advantage. He can hit a wedge where the woman would have to hit a mid iron. The man can get to a tucked pin, because he has more speed and loft helping him spin the ball etc.

But the idea of equivalent tees does not put them in the same place in the fairway. It leaves them both hitting wedge-or 7 iron- or the same club in as well. And yes the male can hit it higher with more spin etc etc etc.

 

The women playing the up tees would still put them in the same spot as the men in the fairway or at least very close to it. Actually, the men would most likely still be closer to the green than the women. The men would certainly be using far less club than the women. The women do not play the up tees and hit it the same distance as the men. Thats why the play those tees.

[new2g0lf]

Using only the men's course ratings as an apples to apples comparison, the top men on the PGA tour have a scoring average nearly 7 shots under the average course rating. The top women's scoring average is between two and three under their respective course ratings.

 

Best men in the world are approximately four full shots better from the same tees.

No one is saying that they are apples to apples Isaac. Both tours the top players average high 68's low 69's. Some of the comments in here are the same misongynistic babble we had in the 4 cap playing the lady. As if the 4 could hang if given a long hard course lol. Yes the typical course setup on the pga is more difficult than the typical ladies setup. Considering length though the men's is often set up shorter than the ladies. The ladies play a lot more 6500+ courses than the men play almost 7700. Using the 15% difference they hit it that is what they should be.

So apples to oranges, aka respective tees, the women would do just fine. This isn't tennis or soccer. No one's playing defense lol.

 

What???

 

Also I havent seen any misogynistic comments in this thread. Could you point me to one?

What? The comments are not strongly prejudiced against women, right? They are just telling the truth? If Rio Secco was a Mickey Mouse course and an easy set up only the women would shoot higher on a harder course? Is that really what I am hearing? Why is it so hard to believe that from the proper tees the women would do fine? I am not saying same tees for both. Oh well. You all remind me of my buddy that hits it 250 tops and declares no woman could out drive him. :)

 

I gotta say im really disappointed that you believe simply believing that the lpga gals would get killed is misogynist? Honestly, i expected more. i have read absolutely nothing in this thread to indicate these things or attitudes. Your only example is the wendys 3 tour challenge which yes is a ridiculous measuring stick. The setup is easy to allow women to compete. period. even then the men senior and regular tour have won 75% of those as well without their top guys during fred couples silly season. My friend played with seri pak many moons ago in orlando when she was still top 5 in the world. She played her tees and he played his and waxed her by 6 shots.Next day same thing. he like me is just a mini tour pro eventual nationwide tour pro. I really believe you have no clue the conditions the men versus the women play. thats not sexist or misogynist. They are tremendous players but their short game is light years behind the mens. i dont see how you comparing some meathead buddy of yours claiming he can outdrive any woman as whats going on in this thread. Dont take the easy way out claiming sexism, youre better than that and i respect your opinion on this forum.

 

Well stated, there is nothing misogynistic in any statements I've read. The LPGA golfers are great golfers and I'd be thrilled to get even close to their talent but there is still a talent gap between them and the men. Even if you could neutralize the mens distance advantage off the tee, the men would be hitting wedges and the ladies would be hitting longer irons into the green. It's pretty commonly accepted that the men on average have a better short game so I don't see any scenario where the Top 5 men would ever lose a match to the Top 5 women. The 3 Tour challenge was one step beyond Bobby Riggs playing Billy Jean King in tennis.

[Medic]

I think a pga/lpga two-man team format would be fun. I like the idea of a crossover.

 

Was going to say the same thing. With the mixed format similar to Ryder Cup and in the final single matches men play against men and ladies against ladies.

 

Here in Orlando area there is an event involving two private CC where lots of pros live and they have an annual event that GC televises. Some odd name that I cannot recall but it's fun to watch and they really seem to enjoy participating in it.

[Sean2]

Battle of the sexes? That has been going on since before the Bronze Age, and the male of the species is still losing. :-)

[Medic]

Battle of the sexes? That has been going on since before the Bronze Age, and the male of the species is still losing. :-)

 

I have figured my wife's handicap Sean. Allowing for hers versus mine I have to give her 6 a side. She has beaten me the last two rounds we went out. The woman can putt.

 

Stupid pro lessons with a guy who really knows what he's doin' and patiently taught her how to really get the most out of her swing and how to line up a putt.....

 

Anywho, it is really fun playing with her. And she is really starting to enjoy going out there!

[Argonne69]

The pin positions would kill the women. Very few if any get enough height or spin on the ball. They would need to play 150 yards shorter on the 5s and 100 yards shorter on the 4s and 70 yards shorter on the 3s.

 

Um, yeah, that's pretty much what they do. Have you ever watched the LPGA? The par 5's are generally in the 500 to 540 yard range, and the 4's are 350 to 420.

 

[Argonne69]

Using only the men's course ratings as an apples to apples comparison, the top men on the PGA tour have a scoring average nearly 7 shots under the average course rating. The top women's scoring average is between two and three under their respective course ratings.

 

Best men in the world are approximately four full shots better from the same tees.

 

Huh? How is that apples to apples? They are women if you haven't noticed. The women's ratings are typically 5 shots higher.

[Sean2]

However both tours will agree although the difference has narrowed there are better putters on the pga.

 

We have posters here who insist that it's well known that Inbee is the best putter on the planet, male or female....

The only place I've heard that was from golf announcers.

 

At one time it was probably true. For awhile there she was putting at an etherial level.

[Sean2]

Battle of the sexes? That has been going on since before the Bronze Age, and the male of the species is still losing. :-)

 

I have figured my wife's handicap Sean. Allowing for hers versus mine I have to give her 6 a side. She has beaten me the last two rounds we went out. The woman can putt.

 

Stupid pro lessons with a guy who really knows what he's doin' and patiently taught her how to really get the most out of her swing and how to line up a putt.....

 

Anywho, it is really fun playing with her. And she is really starting to enjoy going out there!

 

That's great Jim! You may have created a monster though...once those competitive juices get flowing she will want to trounce you on a regular basis. lol