Playing golf in Vancouver Canada (NO POLITICS!)

[KBong]

Dec. 1, 2021....Pagoda Ridge new owners....JKWG (Korean)

 

http://www.jkworldgroup.com/golf_course/

[The Beav]

13 hours ago, KBong said:

Dec. 1, 2021....Pagoda Ridge new owners....JKWG (Korean)

 

http://www.jkworldgroup.com/golf_course/

Interesting.  Had no idea.  

I guess time will tell if this is good or bad for the course.

[jordan_mccomb]

On 12/6/2021 at 5:24 PM, KBong said:

Dec. 1, 2021....Pagoda Ridge new owners....JKWG (Korean)

 

http://www.jkworldgroup.com/golf_course/

All rumors, but I have heard it will become private or at least semi-private. Heard they were already offering lifetime memberships.

[KBong]

55 minutes ago, jordan_mccomb said:

All rumors, but I have heard it will become private or at least semi-private. Heard they were already offering lifetime memberships.

I also saw people chirping on FB about going private, etc....without putting much thought to their comments or logic.

I highly doubt it will become private or .....semi private (at least in the near term) .

 

It's fairly out in the Fraser Valley......location, location, location...or lack there of.

 

If indeed it does go private....I can't see an initiation of more than $25000-$30000 tops....and a lot of capital investment and work will need to be done to attract a demographic who want the amenities of a private club.

 

Here are some of the issues I see to become private or even improve the facilities for a public course.

1) No room for a range or proper practice area

2) The current routing s*cks...with a finishing hole...the old #10.

3) Millions will be needed to build a new clubhouse/pro shop/restaurant, etc

4) $1.2m+ for drainage work, $500,000 for bunker work, etc etc, of money to bring the course up to private club conditions.

5) Is there a good labour pool to staff out in Ft. Langley.

6) Often frost delays for those on monthly dues

 

With Covid demand....tee sheets in the GVRD are kinda filled.....public green fees are more profitable vs. an offering of annual passes (semi private).

 

I'm wondering how deep the pockets JKWG are if indeed they want to offer life time memberships because they need a good immediate capital injection.

 

I'd be interested to hear others views on the new ownership and possible direction of Pagoda.

BTW...the new club name is kinda lame.

Green Tee Golf Club.

 

EDIT

After I typed the above....I just did a Google.

Just found this out.

On Dec 8.....GTGC has announced annual passes....with a 100 rd limit per year.....seems like JkWG needs an immediate cash flow injection.

So much for the rumors that GTGC will go private in the near future.

 

https://www.facebook.com/pagodaridge/

[marmaduk]

15 hours ago, KBong said:

I also saw people chirping on FB about going private, etc....without putting much thought to their comments or logic.

I highly doubt it will become private or .....semi private (at least in the near term) .

 

It's fairly out in the Fraser Valley......location, location, location...or lack there of.

 

If indeed it does go private....I can't see an initiation of more than $25000-$30000 tops....and a lot of capital investment and work will need to be done to attract a demographic who want the amenities of a private club.

 

Here are some of the issues I see to become private or even improve the facilities for a public course.

1) No room for a range or proper practice area

2) The current routing s*cks...with a finishing hole...the old #10.

3) Millions will be needed to build a new clubhouse/pro shop/restaurant, etc

4) $1.2m+ for drainage work, $500,000 for bunker work, etc etc, of money to bring the course up to private club conditions.

5) Is there a good labour pool to staff out in Ft. Langley.

6) Often frost delays for those on monthly dues

 

With Covid demand....tee sheets in the GVRD are kinda filled.....public green fees are more profitable vs. an offering of annual passes (semi private).

 

I'm wondering how deep the pockets JKWG are if indeed they want to offer life time memberships because they need a good immediate capital injection.

 

I'd be interested to hear others views on the new ownership and possible direction of Pagoda.

BTW...the new club name is kinda lame.

Green Tee Golf Club.

 

EDIT

After I typed the above....I just did a Google.

Just found this out.

On Dec 8.....GTGC has announced annual passes....with a 100 rd limit per year.....seems like JkWG needs an immediate cash flow injection.

So much for the rumors that GTGC will go private in the near future.

 

https://www.facebook.com/pagodaridge/

 
This is all well thought out. Not many people truly understand how expensive it is to operate a golf course. In fact it’s so unprofitable to run a golf course that most courses get half their yearly revenue from weddings and events. 

[KBong]

21 minutes ago, marmaduk said:

 
This is all well thought out. Not many people truly understand how expensive it is to operate a golf course. In fact it’s so unprofitable to run a golf course that most courses get half their yearly revenue from weddings and events. 

Yes....especially pre-Covid....many stand alone courses struggled to break even.

We saw some golf closures in some states in the US...due to over build.

 

Many courses in the 90's were built because they were part of a large housing development/community.

[KBong]

Pagoda Ridge now GTGC.

I know prices increased significantly at other courses too.

I don't know what the annual pass price was for 2021.

 

Annual price change

Reg pass   2020 $3000.....2022 $3800

Sr Pass M-F 2020 $1750....2022 $2750.

[The Beav]

If Pagoda went full private I don't think I'd be upset.  The layout stinks and the greens/tee boxes have been completely destroyed by heavy play these last 2 years.  And pace of play there....woof it's awful every single time. 

 

I'd much rather play out of Ledgeview if I was further out in the valley. 

[duffer987]

The pickings are slim, but I think Pagoda is the least bad course East of Redwoods (not counting Sandpiper which is a hike to get to). Didn't play it this autumn, but it was fine in the summer.

Really they need to wedge in a new par 3 somewhere (that's all they'd have the space for) and turn that whole #10 area into their gazebo-permanent structure/wedding area. The views are cool and the hole is stupid.

 

Annual capped ticket/pass with 14 day booking window, or whatever gets them prime times, seems logical.

[KBong]

1 hour ago, duffer987 said:

1) The pickings are slim, but I think Pagoda is the least bad course East of Redwoods (not counting Sandpiper which is a hike to get to).

 

2) Really they need to wedge in a new par 3 somewhere (that's all they'd have the space for) and turn that whole #10 area into their gazebo-permanent structure/wedding area. The views are cool and the hole is stupid.

 

1) I really like Sandpiper, but's it's a long drive from Vanc.

For a quick 1 night stayover.....I think Semiahmoo...is a better venue....nice course, hotel, restaurant and views by the water.

 

2) Agree.....I think they could wedge a par 3 between the old 17th green & 18th tee block.....make 18 a long par 4......maybe more bunkering in the tee shot landing zone on 18.

I always prefer a TOUGH par 4 finishing hole making it more difficult to post a desired score.

 

They need to build a new clubhouse to host weddings to make the old #10 hole as a viable wedding hosting area.

They could make #10 into a driving range....but it likely might not have a good ROI as Pagoda is out in the rurals...not much traffic for golfers to drop in just for the range. 

[KBong]

Played Fraserview on Sat....OMG...the greens might have been rolling at 10-11 stimp....9 holes were tucked near the edge of the greens.

The rest of the course was WET after 2" of rain on Fri.

 

Played Langara 2 weeks ago...greens were slow and bumpy....I hope to check out McCleery before the end of the year.

[Shushwap]

20 hours ago, KBong said:

 

On Dec 8.....GTGC has announced annual passes....with a 100 rd limit per year.....

I think we are going to see more courses putting limits on play 

Two eagles in west Kelowna has done away with yearly membership all together.. Most courses up here don't want members right now.. A friend of mine has to fill out a application to see if he can renew his membership for 22

Sounds as though they are looking to see how many rounds members played last year.. The higher the number the further down the list u go... He left harvest for this reason as members were put into a lottery to see if u would get the Tee time u asked for..the more u played the less likely u were to get on..most courses up here are limiting membership for 22

Dammmmmm u covid!!!! 

 

[KBong]

12 minutes ago, Shushwap said:

I think we are going to see more courses putting limits on play 

Two eagles in west Kelowna has done away with yearly membership all together.. Most courses up here don't want members right now.. A friend of mine has to fill out a application to see if he can renew his membership for 22

Sounds as though they are looking to see how many rounds members played last year.. The higher the number the further down the list u go... He left harvest for this reason as members were put into a lottery to see if u would get the Tee time u asked for..the more u played the less likely u were to get on..most courses up here are limiting membership for 22

Dammmmmm u covid!!!! 

 

Yes....back in the GTA (Ontario) some courses are also eliminating or limiting annual passes.

If tee sheets are full...green fees are far more profitable.

 

I got my avg cost per rd to approx $8.50 rd.🤣 on my annual twilight pass....it's a 100 km rd trip...so I didn't go as often as I wanted too....some members who played everyday when it's not raining..... likely got their avg rd down to $5-$6....LMAO.

 

Yes...to h*ll with growing the game. etc .....and STUPID Covid.....this man made virus continues to mutate and isn't going away.

[noodle3872]

1 hour ago, Shushwap said:

I think we are going to see more courses putting limits on play 

Two eagles in west Kelowna has done away with yearly membership all together.. Most courses up here don't want members right now.. A friend of mine has to fill out a application to see if he can renew his membership for 22

Sounds as though they are looking to see how many rounds members played last year.. The higher the number the further down the list u go... He left harvest for this reason as members were put into a lottery to see if u would get the Tee time u asked for..the more u played the less likely u were to get on..most courses up here are limiting membership for 22

Dammmmmm u covid!!!! 

 

No members means less problems for the club fulfilling members’ expectations or perceived entitlements. A core group of longtime members at the two courses I was a member at bunged up the prime tee times to the point many members outside this group couldn’t get a time before twilight rates kicked in. They lost a bunch of members because of this but covid arrived so the club hasn’t felt the loss like they probably would have otherwise. 
 

 

[Shushwap]

3 hours ago, KBong said:

Yes....back in the GTA (Ontario) some courses are also eliminating or limiting annual passes.

If tee sheets are full...green fees are far more profitable.

 

I got my avg cost per rd to approx $8.50 rd.🤣 on my annual twilight pass....it's a 100 km rd trip...so I didn't go as often as I wanted too....some members who played everyday when it's not raining..... likely got their avg rd down to $5-$6....LMAO.

 

Yes...to h*ll with growing the game. etc .....and STUPID Covid.....this man made virus continues to mutate and isn't going away.

8 bucks a round is well worth it even with the price of fuel... Problem up here is we cant get tee times to play that much at most courses you had to book weeks in advance and even then it was still tough....

 

[Shushwap]

3 hours ago, KBong said:

Yes....back in the GTA (Ontario) some courses are also eliminating or limiting annual passes.

If tee sheets are full...green fees are far more profitable.

 

I got my avg cost per rd to approx $8.50 rd.🤣 on my annual twilight pass....it's a 100 km rd trip...so I didn't go as often as I wanted too....some members who played everyday when it's not raining..... likely got their avg rd down to $5-$6....LMAO.

 

Yes...to h*ll with growing the game. etc .....and STUPID Covid.....this man made virus continues to mutate and isn't going away.

8 bucks a round is well worth it even with the price of fuel... Problem up here is we cant get tee times to play that much at most courses you had to book weeks in advance and even then it was still tough....

 

[KBong]

1 hour ago, Shushwap said:

8 bucks a round is well worth it even with the price of fuel... Problem up here is we cant get tee times to play that much at most courses you had to book weeks in advance and even then it was still tough....

 

It's mostly hwy driving so I save a bit of gas and save my clutch (manual trans)...put the car in cruise and it's only about 40 mins.

Heck....local courses can take up to 45 minutes driving through the city...more gas and more gear shifts.

 

I feel bad for you and other Kelowna locals with poor tee access and jacked up rates.

Even back in the 90's....I thought Kelowna golf prices were a bit of a rip off.

[marmaduk]

5 hours ago, KBong said:

Yes....back in the GTA (Ontario) some courses are also eliminating or limiting annual passes.

If tee sheets are full...green fees are far more profitable.

 

I got my avg cost per rd to approx $8.50 rd.🤣 on my annual twilight pass....it's a 100 km rd trip...so I didn't go as often as I wanted too....some members who played everyday when it's not raining..... likely got their avg rd down to $5-$6....LMAO.

 

Yes...to h*ll with growing the game. etc .....and STUPID Covid.....this man made virus continues to mutate and isn't going away.

Yeah, I mean you can’t exactly blame the course for not wanting your membership. It would cost that place money to have you lol. Now that the courses are in a position financially to choose they are. 
 

I remember working a pro shop in Vancouver 10 years ago. The booking software would always request a credit card on file so the people who booked the tee time would be financially commuted to show up. My boss at the time said they didn’t collect because they couldn’t afford to lose the customer.
 

People not showing for tee times and members paying 5 bucks per rounds was not a recipe for success. We were all lucky and didn’t know how good we had it. 

[Shushwap]

1 hour ago, KBong said:

It's mostly hwy driving so I save a bit of gas and save my clutch (manual trans)...put the car in cruise and it's only about 40 mins.

Heck....local courses can take up to 45 minutes driving through the city...more gas and more gear shifts.

 

I feel bad for you and other Kelowna locals with poor tee access and jacked up rates.

Even back in the 90's....I thought Kelowna golf prices were a bit of a rip off.

Next year is even worse.. Rack rate at Okanagan club is $160... Tower ranch is 150 starting in the spring and run ing through till fall... The sad part is people will continue to pay it.. I won't be a part of that crowd.. I purchased a bunch of rounds in the salmon arm and chase area.. 70 a round for pre paid rounds out there are easier to stomach... As u say I don't mind the drive and I prefer the courses.. 

Well see how the red book looks in 22..im not holding my breath... I did pick up the Canada golf card again for 22.. Hopefully Hyde mountain is in there again as that is the reason I buy it every year... Perhaps I will have to make a few runs over the border and check out Bellingham 

[KBong]

13 hours ago, Shushwap said:

Next year is even worse.. Rack rate at Okanagan club is $160... Tower ranch is 150 starting in the spring and run ing through till fall... The sad part is people will continue to pay it.. I won't be a part of that crowd.. I purchased a bunch of rounds in the salmon arm and chase area.. 70 a round for pre paid rounds out there are easier to stomach... As u say I don't mind the drive and I prefer the courses.. 

Well see how the red book looks in 22..im not holding my breath... I did pick up the Canada golf card again for 22.. Hopefully Hyde mountain is in there again as that is the reason I buy it every year... Perhaps I will have to make a few runs over the border and check out Bellingham 

WTH???.....great prices....LMAO.

Just BEND OVER.

Maybe find a PT job at a course to get free golf...but I'm sure the wife will be MAD at you for doing so.

 

You can't even join cheapa** place like Shannon Lakes this year due to their share restriction.

Being a self professed cheapo....I didn't mind SL....I got a par 4 hole out eagle there way back in the 90's.

 

The Redbook is now for sale at retailers....for the GVRD...IMO....not worth buying....pre-Covid .....my friend and I shared 8 Redbooks one year.

I didn't look at the BC Interior coupons.

The website is not updated.

 

Maybe this year we may do a Shuswap trip...but I said the same in 2021 and it never came to fruition.

I'm not going over the border until all this Covid testing is GONE.

[Shushwap]

8 hours ago, KBong said:

WTH???.....great prices....LMAO.

Just BEND OVER.

Maybe find a PT job at a course to get free golf...but I'm sure the wife will be MAD at you for doing so.

 

You can't even join cheapa** place like Shannon Lakes this year due to their share restriction.

Being a self professed cheapo....I didn't mind SL....I got a par 4 hole out eagle there way back in the 90's.

 

The Redbook is now for sale at retailers....for the GVRD...IMO....not worth buying....pre-Covid .....my friend and I shared 8 Redbooks one year.

I didn't look at the BC Interior coupons.

The website is not updated.

 

Maybe this year we may do a Shuswap trip...but I said the same in 2021 and it never came to fruition.

I'm not going over the border until all this Covid testing is GONE.

I had a look through the red book online for 22... I think I will pass on it this year... Last year it was a little slim... This year it would be tough to get my money back lol

Shuswap in the summer is beautiful... Talking rock is nice in the summer with the lake right there

The days of cheap golf are long gone... I had coffee with my golf buddies today and we were chatting about the cost... We either have to adapt to the new pricing or stop playing as its not going to get better anytime soon

[mukster]

[The Beav]

Man....this snow is killing me.  

I'm getting myself through with some retail therapy buying all sorts of golf stuff I don't need.

[Shushwap]

On 1/1/2022 at 9:21 AM, The Beav said:

Man....this snow is killing me.  

I'm getting myself through with some retail therapy buying all sorts of golf stuff I don't need.

Welcome to my world.. we have to play sim golf for 4-5 months 

-15 this morning.. 

[Phireside]

Snow coming past my window on the North Shore right now. Was lucky to get a couple rounds in over the holidays while visiting the in laws down south. 

[myspinonit]

My legs are getting  so weak with all this sitting around since October Better have another sweet bun and think about.it.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by myspinonit

[myspinonit]

This confirms the news  on here that Pagoda is going private . But perhps new is the heads up to  polish up that credit card (or remortgage)  if you want to spend serious $ on Asian clubs:

https://www.britishcolumbiagolf.org/uncategorized/5098-ziemer-s-b-c-golf-notes-greentee-golf-shop-will-cater-to-high-end-clientele-michelle-liu-third-in-orlando-lauren-kim-top-5-at-junior-orange-bowl-mcdonald-tops-pga-of-bc-list

Edited January 14, 2022 by myspinonit

[Break68]

I played Kapalua Plantation, Kanapali Royal and the Dunes on Maui on the holidays. It was amazing spending 2 weeks on Maui, until I got a cold at the end of the trip, so I thought. Tested negative for flight home, tested positive a day later for Covid. The last 10 days have not been a ton of fun. I won't be going across the border any time soon. Maui was incredible after 22 months of working at home. 

[myspinonit]

4 hours ago, Break68 said:

I played Kapalua Plantation, Kanapali Royal and the Dunes on Maui on the holidays. It was amazing spending 2 weeks on Maui, until I got a cold at the end of the trip, so I thought. Tested negative for flight home, tested positive a day later for Covid. The last 10 days have not been a ton of fun. I won't be going across the border any time soon. Maui was incredible after 22 months of working at home. 

Hoping your recovery goes well.

 

Yeah, Maui always beckons, and we miss it, but your experience shows probably the "safest" State (and Maui vs Oahu) isn't so much now.  We cancelled our very tentative trip to Palm Springs in February months  ago even though we've had two shots plus  the booster. Now have no plans to go anywhere. 

 

With Omicron we stopped  even dining in restaurants or coffee shops now. We went to  a Bar Mitzvah in the second  week of December just after we were  starting to hear about Omicron.  Everyone had to show proof of being  "fully vaxxed" (ie. two shots at least),  tables distanced, masked when not sitting .  My brother-in-law  got Covid (fortunately mild) though he too had the booster and at least four others tested positive. This is an evil one.

Edited January 14, 2022 by myspinonit

[KBong]

13 hours ago, myspinonit said:

This confirms the news  on here that Pagoda is going private .

Sign me up!🤣

 

So how many here:

1) Believe Pagoda will be come an attractive and successful private club?

 

I think no.