Article : being a cart girl is a sexist nightmare

[TheCityGame]

Link to an article in Vice News.

 

Good resolution for this year's golf season : if you act like those guys, maybe don't.

 

I joined a club last year where the guys know the regular cart girls. I was pretty astounded at some of the behavior I saw. . .she never mentioned this happening in the article, but some dudes literally getting the girl out of the cart and getting a hug ("come on. . .gimme a hug."). Let me tell ya. . .if you're a sweaty 60 year old, and you think the cart girl wants to give you a hug, you have probably mis-read her congeniality. There's a power imbalance with these girls that does not allow her to tell you to f*ck off.

 

I'm not trying to be anyone's knight in shining armor; I just think a good rule of thumb when interacting with a cart girl is, "if my daughter or wife saw me act this way, would she be embarrassed?"

[QEight]

There's a power imbalance with these girls that does not allow her to tell you to f*ck off.

 

Very much true. "Gentleman's game" bah.

[Hawkeye77]

Sadly, no doubt that occurs. Have heard some pretty disappointing story about incidents at our local courses, but, and I'm not excusing losers, there have been a few instances where the cart girls were willing participants as well. After my daughter graduated from college and before she went to grad school one of her two summer jobs was to run the beverage cart at Finkbine, the U of I golf course (she got free range and playing privileges and dad got a discount if he visited - nice). She worked the pro shop at our course for several summers starting in high school.

 

They have a very strict policy in regards to any kind of insulting behavior at Finkbine and I'm sure partly because it's a University run facility. They were to report any such incidents and the offender would be promptly removed and although she never had an issue because the atmosphere is generally really good there, she knew of instances where it was enforced and felt pretty secure knowing the guys in charge would handle any situations. Quality staff there.

 

If only the Tour wasn't afraid to deal with losers . . . . . .

[TheCityGame]

Sadly, no doubt that occurs. Have heard some pretty disappointing story about incidents at our local courses, but, and I'm not excusing losers, there have been a few instances where the cart girls were willing participants as well.

I'm not saying you're wrong -- people who work for tips have to be manipulative in subtle ways -- but going too far with that thinking is kind of the issue.

 

Like, if you think that laughing at your jokes or giving you hug is being a "willing participant", you're probably wrong.

 

If the girl is literally going, "Hey, Hawkeye, got any good jokes for me today?" or "you don't give me hugs any more", then maybe you're right.

 

But, just because shes a "good sport" about some kind of behavior definitely doesn't mean she's a willing participant. That's the perspective I'm trying to bring.

[Baitkiller]

That job is right up there with a Hooters waitress on my daughters list of "jobs I don't want" .

[Joe V.]

It's Vice...

 

For all the issues she had, she worked there for four summers. Four.

 

If it's so bad why do you go back?

[Ball_Flgt_Flaw]

It's Vice...

 

For all the issues she had, she worked there for four summers. Four.

 

If it's so bad why do you go back?

 

Are you blaming the victim of bad behavior?

[TheCityGame]

It's Vice...

 

For all the issues she had, she worked there for four summers. Four.

 

If it's so bad why do you go back?

 

Are you blaming the victim of bad behavior?

Coupled with an "attacking the source". It's a two-fer.

[Lou04380]

I still have nightmares about what I witnessed a cart girl go through years ago, it was nothing short of sexual assault. I was young and paired with two older guys, one of which was a firefighter who apparently liked to work out in his free time. I won't say what he did, but I was shocked/stunned at his actions, and his friend was a willing participant with a camera. I was too much of a chicken $&it to stand up for her and regret it to this day. I'm getting angry just thinking about it, mostly at myself, but how someone can act that way and think it's okay is crazy to me.

[Joe V.]

Of course the behavior is the bad, it's horrific, and I've seen it, and it shouldn't happen. Ever. My son's girlfriend quit doing it for just that reason. But if no one in management does anything to fix it, and the working conditions are that bad don't stay. Why subject yourself to the nightmare? There are other jobs.

[ProphetLogic]

It's Vice...

 

For all the issues she had, she worked there for four summers. Four.

 

If it's so bad why do you go back?

 

Are you blaming the victim of bad behavior?

 

In some cases, you have a choice to be a victim or not. Not saying it's right but that's the way the world works. I'm a grown man, there are places in the city I work where I don't go alone, day or night.

 

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work one night. You might say that's terrible.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work again a month later. This is getting bad.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work for the the third time this year. Ok, what the hell.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work for the fourth time, maybe I'm looking for another way home.

[cwglum]

Next article at Vice sports ... 'going to the beach is a sandy nightmare'

[Sawgrass]

Link to an article in Vice News.

 

Good resolution for this year's golf season : if you act like those guys, maybe don't.

 

I joined a club last year where the guys know the regular cart girls. I was pretty astounded at some of the behavior I saw. . .she never mentioned this happening in the article, but some dudes literally getting the girl out of the cart and getting a hug ("come on. . .gimme a hug."). Let me tell ya. . .if you're a sweaty 60 year old, and you think the cart girl wants to give you a hug, you have probably mis-read her congeniality. There's a power imbalance with these girls that does not allow her to tell you to f*ck off.

 

I'm not trying to be anyone's knight in shining armor; I just think a good rule of thumb when interacting with a cart girl is, "if my daughter or wife saw me act this way, would she be embarrassed?"

Good for you.

 

Anyone who thinks it's okay "because the girls have come to expect it" should take a closer look at themselves.

[Sawgrass]

I still have nightmares about what I witnessed a cart girl go through years ago, it was nothing short of sexual assault. I was young and paired with two older guys, one of which was a firefighter who apparently liked to work out in his free time. I won't say what he did, but I was shocked/stunned at his actions, and his friend was a willing participant with a camera. I was too much of a chicken $&it to stand up for her and regret it to this day. I'm getting angry just thinking about it, mostly at myself, but how someone can act that way and think it's okay is crazy to me.

I'd sincerely suggest that you forgive yourself and simply be devoted too doing better next time.

[Shawn Paul]

If you're polite and you tip well the beer cart girl will be there when you need her. If you're an Word not allowed you'll never see the beer cart again and you may die of thirst.

[finleysg]

We booted a guy from our men's club last summer for inappropriate behavior with one of the cart girls. I certainly hope the message spread to all 400 members.

[Halebopp]

 

I'm not trying to be anyone's knight in shining armor; I just think a good rule of thumb when interacting with a cart girl is, "if my daughter or wife saw me act this way, would she be embarrassed?"

 

My favourite rule of thumb for these situations is to ask yourself, "would I be fine with it if a 6'5", 250+ pound guy came over and said/did the same thing to me in a prison?"

[farmer]

I was in a group where one of the guys was so rude to the cart girl that I chased her down and apologized. It wasn't sexual, just incredibly rude. That guy has since proven the adage that you can judge people by how they treat the "little people". Total knob.

[Quasimoto]

I am always, for lack of a better word, outraged at the way some men treat the cart women. I say women because they have to be 18 here to serve alcohol.

When men I am golfing with are rude and stupidly suggestive to the cart women I always ask them after she has left if they were raised by a wh*re, in a wh*re house, and then explain that these women need to be treated as if they were their daughter, their mother, their sister.

There is no place for behaving lewdly to these women, on the golf course or anywhere else.

 

Now, I will admit that when one of these women with particular body style and looks has left I may say to my playing partners that "I wish I was 20 again, I would love to get all over that. She will certainly not hear this, and I will not be anything but respectful to her and the job she does when she is serving us.

 

When I think back to the cart girls of 20 years ago, and more, they seemed to be able to deflect this bad behaviour with a certain type of comment that was respectful to the boor, however left no doubt that she was not interested. I think with the way the younger generation of women has been raised in female enlightenment, it would be beneficial to have role play training for them before they head out on the job so they are equipped to fend off a rude assh*le with appropriate comment. Course ownership/management could play a role in this problem to equip the women with the tools to feel good about themselves and diffuse the situations, and the girls will feel empowered. As well, mens clubs could give out information at the annual registration with respect to expected behaviour and inappropriate behaviour.

 

Just my .02 worth, and for the record, I have no daughters, however I do have sisters and my father raised us boys to respect women. Obviously, some women will not deserve out attention, however that is an entirely different matter of discussion not for this thread.

[golfnhack]

Not blaming the victim here, but I have personally seen a cart girl flaunt here way to $100k year in tips. She worked at Disney Orlando courses.

[rsj1360]

It's Vice...

 

For all the issues she had, she worked there for four summers. Four.

 

If it's so bad why do you go back?

 

Are you blaming the victim of bad behavior?

 

In some cases, you have a choice to be a victim or not. Not saying it's right but that's the way the world works. I'm a grown man, there are places in the city I work where I don't go alone, day or night.

 

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work one night. You might say that's terrible.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work again a month later. This is getting bad.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work for the the third time this year. Ok, what the hell.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work for the fourth time, maybe I'm looking for another way home.

Reported your pic as being offensive and political.

[ProphetLogic]

Haha, that has to be some kind of record.

[Sawgrass]

I need to say that the young woman who wrote that article can really write well.

[MrJones]

I know of girls (knew them personally) that used their "charms" to earn heavy tips and make a very good living. But they had to put up with some ridiculous crap.

 

I think it does a HUGE disservice to the other girls that go out to just do the job and aren't expecting the behavior that some of these clods have.

 

 

But in all cases, it's 99.9% the men that are to blame. Too many creeps and drunks out on the course for me to ever recommend that job to a young lady.

[Hawkeye77]

Sadly, no doubt that occurs. Have heard some pretty disappointing story about incidents at our local courses, but, and I'm not excusing losers, there have been a few instances where the cart girls were willing participants as well.

I'm not saying you're wrong -- people who work for tips have to be manipulative in subtle ways -- but going too far with that thinking is kind of the issue.

 

Like, if you think that laughing at your jokes or giving you hug is being a "willing participant", you're probably wrong.

 

If the girl is literally going, "Hey, Hawkeye, got any good jokes for me today?" or "you don't give me hugs any more", then maybe you're right.

 

But, just because shes a "good sport" about some kind of behavior definitely doesn't mean she's a willing participant. That's the perspective I'm trying to bring.

 

I don't see any reason to go into the FEW instances where cart girls have been the issue in my experience as much as the golfers and as the father of two daughters fully understand any reasonable and applicable distinctions. I'm not talking about somebody asking golfers if they have any jokes or being a good sport and not touching the suggestion of manipulation. And in general, cart girls really don't need to be hugging up strangers, but that's a whole different discussion. You are taking this a lot further than anything I posted would suggest - I guess I don't see any reason to get into all the permutations.

 

Don't disagree with the original post at all.

[Baitkiller]

The good times are when its your wife doing the flirting with the cart girl. She gets way more traction than I do. The bloody Marys she orders from the cart are always better too.

[ratspros]

No doubt some of the behaviour in that article was over the top and unacceptable. I just have to chime in on the over use of words like sexist and misogyny for a second here. Not one thing in that article did I see as either of those, sexual harassment yes. But not sexism. Its the blatant overuse of these buzz words that are killing the severity of them, and they should be severe. But when a guy says a dumb comment to a chick in an effort to pick her up that is not sexism and it belittles the people that actually face real sexism day in and day out.

 

You don't get paid the same as a guy because you're a girl, sexism.

 

You're not allowed to vote because you're a female, sexism.

 

You get hit on because you wear a skort and serve beer, sexual harassment.

 

There's a difference and if we don't notice the difference then we are in grave danger of going very far back in terms of progress we've made with women having equal rights.

 

*Please note I am not saying sexual harassment is more acceptable then sexism. Both are equally as vile in my opinion and should not be tolerated in a civilized society.

[Petunia Sprinkle]

It's Vice...

 

For all the issues she had, she worked there for four summers. Four.

 

If it's so bad why do you go back?

 

Are you blaming the victim of bad behavior?

 

In some cases, you have a choice to be a victim or not. Not saying it's right but that's the way the world works. I'm a grown man, there are places in the city I work where I don't go alone, day or night.

 

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work one night. You might say that's terrible.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work again a month later. This is getting bad.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work for the the third time this year. Ok, what the hell.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work for the fourth time, maybe I'm looking for another way home.

 

First time reading Fountainhead?

[caniac6]

I must be a weirdo because I've never seen a beverage cart girl treated disrespectfully. I guess that means I play with a good group of guys.

[Brooky03]

Cart girls have a pretty easy job and can earn crazy good tips. As far as summer jobs go for high school or college kids, it's darn near the holy grail. The 3 cart girls, my age, who worked at my home course, loved it. They were able to handle the dirty old men without much issue.