Article : being a cart girl is a sexist nightmare

[Sean2]

I'm in my 60s and I see guys my age hitting on the cart girl. Really? Grow up will you. She's probably younger than your daughter.

[DaveGoodrich]

Cart girls have a pretty easy job and can earn crazy good tips. As far as summer jobs go for high school or college kids, it's darn near the holy grail. The 3 cart girls, my age, who worked at my home course, loved it. They were able to handle the dirty old men without much issue.

 

Maybe, but I'd bet if you asked those girls whether having to "handle the dirty old men" is the way thing's ought to be, they would say no. Nobody's daughter should have to put up with that crap.

[Bigarch]

I must be a weirdo because I've never seen a beverage cart girl treated disrespectfully. I guess that means I play with a good group of guys.

 

Sitting here thinking the same thing. I guess I'm lucky I play with "gentlemen" that just don't act this way. As a matter of fact, my club has the opposite problem. We have a bartender that just wants to get very familiar (for lack of a better word) with everyone. It's actually killed the bar business because several guys, including myself, won't hang around after a round for it. It just flat out makes it uncomfortable. So after a round, we'll head to a local pub down the street rather than stay at the club. My wife thought that was a bit weird and I tried to explain it to her. I don't think she understood until she got a chance to see it first hand at a club dinner we went to. Now she understands. Too bad the manager of the club can't figure it out. Several of us have tried to explain it to him but he just doesn't see it.

[ProphetLogic]

It's Vice...

 

For all the issues she had, she worked there for four summers. Four.

 

If it's so bad why do you go back?

 

Are you blaming the victim of bad behavior?

 

In some cases, you have a choice to be a victim or not. Not saying it's right but that's the way the world works. I'm a grown man, there are places in the city I work where I don't go alone, day or night.

 

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work one night. You might say that's terrible.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work again a month later. This is getting bad.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work for the the third time this year. Ok, what the hell.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work for the fourth time, maybe I'm looking for another way home.

 

First time reading Fountainhead?

She was apparently happy enough to go back for three more years after the first go round. And it was Atlas Shrugged.

[Fade]

It seems crystal clear to me that the cart-girl job is lucrative because of sexism. That is the business model. It would be good if employers and employees were honest about it, IMO.

[Sean2]

It's Vice...

 

For all the issues she had, she worked there for four summers. Four.

 

If it's so bad why do you go back?

 

Are you blaming the victim of bad behavior?

 

In some cases, you have a choice to be a victim or not. Not saying it's right but that's the way the world works. I'm a grown man, there are places in the city I work where I don't go alone, day or night.

 

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work one night. You might say that's terrible.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work again a month later. This is getting bad.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work for the the third time this year. Ok, what the hell.

You get mugged walking down E 24th St on the way home from work for the fourth time, maybe I'm looking for another way home.

 

First time reading Fountainhead?

She was apparently happy enough to go back for three more years after the first go round. And it was Atlas Shrugged.

 

Who is John Galt?

[LeoLeo99]

It was the Fountainhead. I have notes in the margins.

[Hawkeye77]

It was the Fountainhead. I have notes in the margins.

 

I thought Ayn Rand was dead.

[Roadking2003]

It's Vice...

 

For all the issues she had, she worked there for four summers. Four.

 

If it's so bad why do you go back?

 

Are you blaming the victim of bad behavior?

 

You didn't answer the question.

[Roadking2003]

Cart girls have a pretty easy job and can earn crazy good tips. As far as summer jobs go for high school or college kids, it's darn near the holy grail. The 3 cart girls, my age, who worked at my home course, loved it. They were able to handle the dirty old men without much issue.

 

Maybe, but I'd bet if you asked those girls whether having to "handle the dirty old men" is the way thing's ought to be, they would say no. Nobody's daughter should have to put up with that crap.

 

Nobody's daughter does have to put up with that crap. But a lot of daughters choose to put up with that crap.

[mshills]

I doubt anyone who has played much golf in the US hasn't seen something get uncomfortable, weird, or downright inappropriate with a cart girl.

 

Definitely not absolution - but it all comes down to alcohol.

 

I like a cocktail or four as much or more than the next guy, but not during the round. Save the booze for the 19th hole.

[MadGolfer76]

What would Judith Butler say, I wonder...

 

(Don't feel embarrassed if you have to Google Judith Butler).

[Shilgy]

I'm in my 60s and I see guys my age hitting on the cart girl. Really? Grow up will you. She's probably younger than your daughter.

For some it's granddaughter.

[Sawgrass]

I doubt anyone who has played much golf in the US hasn't seen something get uncomfortable, weird, or downright inappropriate with a cart girl.

 

Definitely not absolution - but it all comes down to alcohol.

 

I like a cocktail or four as much or more than the next guy, but not during the round. Save the booze for the 19th hole.

And abuse the barmaid?

 

IMO it's not about alcohol, it's about sensitivity. You can get a respectful person drunk without fear of his exhibiting gross sexual behavior.

[Sawgrass]

Cart girls have a pretty easy job and can earn crazy good tips. As far as summer jobs go for high school or college kids, it's darn near the holy grail. The 3 cart girls, my age, who worked at my home course, loved it. They were able to handle the dirty old men without much issue.

 

Maybe, but I'd bet if you asked those girls whether having to "handle the dirty old men" is the way thing's ought to be, they would say no. Nobody's daughter should have to put up with that crap.

 

Nobody's daughter does have to put up with that crap. But a lot of daughters choose to put up with that crap.

Do you really think they should have to make that uncomfortable choice while trying to earn money?

[Halebopp]

I doubt anyone who has played much golf in the US hasn't seen something get uncomfortable, weird, or downright inappropriate with a cart girl.

 

Definitely not absolution - but it all comes down to alcohol.

 

I like a cocktail or four as much or more than the next guy, but not during the round. Save the booze for the 19th hole.

And abuse the barmaid?

 

IMO it's not about alcohol, it's about sensitivity. You can get a respectful person drunk without fear of his exhibiting gross sexual behavior.

 

And even if that, supposedly, respectful person did exhibit gross sexual behaviour while drunk, the blame is still on the person for getting drunk in the first place and not being able to control himself. Just as big a jacka** as the one doing it sober.

 

Alcohol, like golf, reveals character.

[Roadking2003]

Cart girls have a pretty easy job and can earn crazy good tips. As far as summer jobs go for high school or college kids, it's darn near the holy grail. The 3 cart girls, my age, who worked at my home course, loved it. They were able to handle the dirty old men without much issue.

 

Maybe, but I'd bet if you asked those girls whether having to "handle the dirty old men" is the way thing's ought to be, they would say no. Nobody's daughter should have to put up with that crap.

 

Nobody's daughter does have to put up with that crap. But a lot of daughters choose to put up with that crap.

Do you really think they should have to make that uncomfortable choice while trying to earn money?

 

I think people should be able to decide for themselves what makes them uncomfortable. Nobody HAS to choose to be an abused cart girl.

 

Many women like the attention, like to flirt, like to have men appreciate their looks. There is nothing wrong with that.

[LansingMI]

"I worked FOUR summers as a beer cart girl" ...

 

that's as far as you need to go.

[GSDriver]

If you don't want to be a cart girl, then don't. 4 years, couldn't be that bad of working conditions.

[Sawgrass]

Cart girls have a pretty easy job and can earn crazy good tips. As far as summer jobs go for high school or college kids, it's darn near the holy grail. The 3 cart girls, my age, who worked at my home course, loved it. They were able to handle the dirty old men without much issue.

 

Maybe, but I'd bet if you asked those girls whether having to "handle the dirty old men" is the way thing's ought to be, they would say no. Nobody's daughter should have to put up with that crap.

 

Nobody's daughter does have to put up with that crap. But a lot of daughters choose to put up with that crap.

Do you really think they should have to make that uncomfortable choice while trying to earn money?

 

I think people should be able to decide for themselves what makes them uncomfortable. Nobody HAS to choose to be an abused cart girl.

 

Many women like the attention, like to flirt, like to have men appreciate their looks. There is nothing wrong with that.

I agree with your last bit here, but it has nothing to do with my point. There are ways to begin to approach a woman, flirt with a woman, which no reasonable woman would object to even if she were disinterested in the man. What we're talking about here, if you've not witnessed it yourself, is a gross intrusion. Men are obligated by decency to restrain themselves from that, and in a better world they would. And not instead force a sensitive woman to have to leave a job she wants or needs.

[Hawkeye77]

Actually read the article - too much comes to mind to even address it, but not what I expected given the original post.

 

This stuck out for me -

 

"I was more than willing to overlook grammar if it meant going on a date with a ball-polishing hottie."

 

 

I think she has a point of view, but I also don't think that point of view is as representative as she wants to make it out to be, or that she is maybe the best messenger for the problem she wants to highlight.

 

Not a fan of the article, but not pretending there isn't a ton of boorish behavior - have seen plenty.

[LeoLeo99]

Grump old men don't make for good cart operators. And they don't get good tips.

 

“The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.”

[Socrates]

Given the current climate in the world and every day there is a new revelation of alleged behaviour, I can see the whole cart girl thing being a can of worms. We've already discussed it at the course and it's going to be a whole different world. Patrons and employees alike.

 

That being said, we've had all manner of cart girls over the years. Many are there to make some money and many are there to "meet" as many guys as they can. We had 2 ladies apply one year. Absolutely gorgeous, but there was something fishy about it and near as we could figure they were Russian hookers and looking for "employment." They even had resumes. Not hired. Also had one that openly bragged that she had no gag reflex - fired.

 

You need friendly, but not that kind of friendly.

[Hot Rod 71]

As a part-time golf course employee for over 10 years, I’ve seen some ridiculous behavior by grown men toward cart girls. Most of the cart girls we’ve employed are college students looking to make some extra money. They are usually attractive and friendly - a combination that has many men reaching deep into their pockets. Usually it just requires the attractive young girl to be nice and smile while filling beer orders.

 

However, we have employed a few girls that seem to love the attention they get from our male clientele. Some would go out of their way to dress in revealing clothing, be sexually flirtatious, and make suggestive comments in an effort to get more tips. I suspect some of these girls may also have issues that drive them to seek male attention.

 

 

[Nard_S]

I have two daughters, one was a coffee girl since 15. This stuff goes on everywhere.Almost had to file a police report over a 40 year old guy harassing her when she was 18.He stopped showing himself once he heard he was being sought.

 

Tool factor goes up on the course. Guys want to show their cahones, guess their game has none. I've seen it and said something on the spot. It's one thing to charm it's another to creep, makes the rest of the pack look like the ****** bags we are not.

[Roadking2003]

I agree with your last bit here, but it has nothing to do with my point. There are ways to begin to approach a woman, flirt with a woman, which no reasonable woman would object to even if she were disinterested in the man. What we're talking about here, if you've not witnessed it yourself, is a gross intrusion. Men are obligated by decency to restrain themselves from that, and in a better world they would. And not instead force a sensitive woman to have to leave a job she wants or needs.

 

I think we are somewhat in agreement. I'm not defending abusive behavior. I condemn it.

 

But I also support people's freedom to choose their jobs and to define what "abusive" means to them. People get to decide if their job environment is too abusive for them. People who work at a strip club have set the boundaries for "abusive" in a very different way than people working in an insurance company office.

[Roadking2003]

Given the current climate in the world and every day there is a new revelation of alleged behaviour, I can see the whole cart girl thing being a can of worms. We've already discussed it at the course and it's going to be a whole different world. Patrons and employees alike.

 

That being said, we've had all manner of cart girls over the years. Many are there to make some money and many are there to "meet" as many guys as they can. We had 2 ladies apply one year. Absolutely gorgeous, but there was something fishy about it and near as we could figure they were Russian hookers and looking for "employment." They even had resumes. Not hired. Also had one that openly bragged that she had no gag reflex - fired.

 

You need friendly, but not that kind of friendly.

 

But I thought Russian Hookers were the best ?????

[rsj1360]

There may be numerous reasons the woman worked at the club for four summers. There may not have been much other choice open to her.

 

Instead of putting the blame on a teenager having to put much older men in their places (how many teenagers would be capable of doing that?), how about putting the blame on grown adult men who choose to act innappropriately.

 

Women should not have to "choose" between earning some money and having to put up with being harrassed.

[rsj1360]

Some of these replies just make you want to shake your head.

[Roadking2003]

There may be numerous reasons the woman worked at the club for four summers. There may not have been much other choice open to her.

 

Instead of putting the blame on a teenager having to put much older men in their places (how many teenagers would be capable of doing that?), how about putting the blame on grown adult men who choose to act innappropriately.

 

Women should not have to "choose" between earning some money and having to put up with being harrassed.

 

I haven't seen anybody blame the cart girl.