Article : being a cart girl is a sexist nightmare

[duffer987]

How about taking a step back and thinking about why this job has to be filled by attractive young girls. It's a sexist concept to begin with tbh. Maybe we should start there

Nice avatar :wacko:

[deadsolid...shank]

How about taking a step back and thinking about why this job has to be filled by attractive young girls. It’s a sexist concept to begin with tbh. Maybe we should start there

 

How far back do you want to go for that start? The old adage "sex sells" is true. And it didn't start with the beverage girls.

 

Or maybe it did, Old Tom told his Bonnie lass running the ale wagon to "lift up that petticoat, lets see a little ankle".

[DDG61]

The men you’ve referred to multiple times as a “physical danger” to this girl may disagree in regards to your opinions not hurting someone.

 

Did I refer "multiple times" to men being a physical danger? Or did you just make that up?

 

Was referring to your comments "level of danger" and "confronting men in private". To me this implies a level of danger that I am sure these men would find offensive.

 

That said you seem pretty black and white on this conversation, I'll take we both agree the conversation is good.

 

Tiger's tee'd off so I'll go away...

[dlygrisse]

I will add this. Some people are much better at dealing with BS than others. Most girls that like to work the dirty old men for tips know how to put then in their place when needed. Sometimes just calling them out on their behavior is all it takes. The girl who wrote this article is obviously NOT that kind of person. Either tell people to STFU or go to Managment and express their concerns if you are uncomfortable. If management doesn’t address the problem then they are the problem.

 

Again. The people running the course need to decide what kind of operation they want to be. Part of that is hiring the right people for the job. If all you are trying to accomplish is having someone to drive a cart and serve food and beverage then who says it can’t be a 65 year old retired person? If fhe person driving the cart is naturally flirtatious and scantily dressed you are sending a message. I’ve seen girls wearing bikini tops driving the cart. Does that make harassment acceptable? No. Will it make flirting more common? Yes. Obviously. Especially when alcohol is involved.

 

For those of you who have never worked in a industry where alcohol sales are involved it brings a whole new level of issues you have to learn to deal with. Both legally and morally. It all may look fun from the outside looking in at first glance, but it generally causes a lot of headaches.

[MtlJeff]

I'll also add, given some of the context of the thread...that it's really easy for a man to say "just brush it off" , we have never really been in the same position. Women at all times have to deal with the fact that if a man wants to get physical with them, threaten them etc. There's nothing they can do about it...were stronger, it's usually that simple. They kinda have a built in uneasy-ness around guys they aren't sure they can trust

 

Imagine if in every social situation you were in the opposite person had a gun and you didn't. Obviously being in public negates it some....but men have a hard time understanding that feeling of unease

 

I mean none of us have to worry about going running after dark. Well unless you live in st Louis

[Socrates]

I can probably tell you that the beverage cart we knew yesterday, is likely one incident/lawsuit away from being over at many courses.

[Sean2]

I'll also add, given some of the context of the thread...that it's really easy for a man to say "just brush it off" , we have never really been in the same position. Women at all times have to deal with the fact that if a man wants to get physical with them, threaten them etc. There's nothing they can do about it...were stronger, it's usually that simple. They kinda have a built in uneasy-ness around guys they aren't sure they can trust

 

Imagine if in every social situation you were in the opposite person had a gun and you didn't. Obviously being in public negates it some....but men have a hard time understanding that feeling of unease

 

I mean none of us have to worry about going running after dark. Well unless you live in st Louis

 

Regardless of who it is, everyone should be treated with kindness and respect, unless they do something that warrants a different response.

[golfer07840]

I doubt anyone who has played much golf in the US hasn't seen something get uncomfortable, weird, or downright inappropriate with a cart girl.

 

Definitely not absolution - but it all comes down to alcohol.

 

I like a cocktail or four as much or more than the next guy, but not during the round. Save the booze for the 19th hole.

 

We must golf in the same places. It's always the alcohol when it comes to the mistreatment of a cart girl. And as the round goes on, the more drinks have flowed, the worse it gets.

 

Although I've never seen it get too crazy, just a bad joke here and there.

[golfer07840]

BTW Golf Digest in 2015 had a big story about this too. They had a woman go "Undercover" and it's remarkable at the behavior from both sides of this story.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-secret-life-of-cart-girls

[golfer07840]

 

 

Every situation is different. My initial reaction though to someone saying being a cart girl is mostly always bad, is that they are probably crying wolf a bit. Because these situations seem to be more exception than the norm

 

This has been my experience. All the times I've golfed, I've only seen one cart girl actually be asked if she was single and if he could have her number. And he was her age, and she gave it to him.

 

Only issue was, he walk talking to HIS GF on the phone a few holes later. But that's on him.

 

I have seen some lubricated people make some pretty raunchy comments but it was always AFTER she left.

[Roadking2003]

How would you behave if a family member is with you? Would you want your daughter to work there? Some people don’t mind if their daughter uses their “assets” to earn a bigger income, some would be mortified. But again if there is a problem the clubs management needs to address it.

 

My family members are free to choose whatever profession they desire. I would hope my daughters would be smart enough and strong enough to leave an abusive environment, not go back year after year.

[PALS-SSA]

It's part of the job when working for tips: make the customer smile and make them feel special. Once you get the tip, nothing else matters.

 

I worked a tip job as a youngster as well. You deal with it. If someone's a jerk or gets too handsy, you can get them tossed or deal with them more subtly. I know if a few people that have gotten their meals with spit or boogers in them.

 

I have also seen more than my share of females who play up thier "talents." It's still a better job than being on the pole.

[Hot Rod 71]

Long ago, before I was married, I had broken off a long term relationship. I was playing golf with a buddy at a local muni. The cart girl came around and she was very attractive. More "girl next door" than supermodel. After our first interaction I commented to my friend how attractive I found her. He dared me to ask her out.

 

The next time she came around we chatted a little and I asked her for her number. She said she would think about it and then drove off. I thought that would be the end of that for sure. We hit the 18th tee box when she came around the corner. She approached me and said she had given it some thought. She said I seemed like a nice guy and she gave me her number.

 

I called her the next day and we went out on a date. It was awesome and we got along marvelously. The only issue was she was only in town for the summer - she attended college 5 hours away. We dated for the next two months while she was home and then maintained a long-distance relationship for about 6 more months until it made things difficult. To me, she will always be the one that got away.

[the bishop]

I've got a beverage cart girl story (not my own) that I'd get banned from here if I told it. They're not all on leave from the convent. Put it that way.

[Oldboy]

How about taking a step back and thinking about why this job has to be filled by attractive young girls. It's a sexist concept to begin with tbh. Maybe we should start there

Nice avatar :wacko:

 

thanks

pop star/celebrity/model vs cart person .. i'm guessing you dont recognize her .. just a bit of a different profession

 

still begs the question why the cart person has to be a girl and preferably attractive and what that means to you or me.. as a point of discussion.. i like pretty girls too .. thats obvious aint it? .. so the job itself has some built in issues

[Hot Rod 71]

How about taking a step back and thinking about why this job has to be filled by attractive young girls. It's a sexist concept to begin with tbh. Maybe we should start there

Nice avatar :wacko:

 

pop star/celebrity/model vs cart person .. i'm guessing you dont recognize her .. just a bit of a different profession

 

Who is she? (I'm not trying to be difficult, I really don't know)

[joekelli]

EASY FIX!!!! (maybe?) How about cart cams with signs on the cart that these camera's are monitored and recorded?

[Oldboy]

How about taking a step back and thinking about why this job has to be filled by attractive young girls. It's a sexist concept to begin with tbh. Maybe we should start there

Nice avatar :wacko:

 

pop star/celebrity/model vs cart person .. i'm guessing you dont recognize her .. just a bit of a different profession

 

Who is she? (I'm not trying to be difficult, I really don't know)

 

Hyori .. kpop celeb from a few years back

[QEight]

I've got a beverage cart girl story (not my own) that I'd get banned from here if I told it. They're not all on leave from the convent. Put it that way.

 

Appropriate nickname...

 

The point is not if the girls are nuns or not. It goes both ways, if either party feels uncomfortable then it (whatever) should stop. Very simple, and it is quite easy to sense. Unless alcohol is involved.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

really, please don't worry about this much people. 'toxic masculinity' will be gone soon enough. after they complete brainwash of the masses gender neutrality will be fully achieved. and then it'll just be the 'cart person' standing there.

[rsj1360]

really, please don't worry about this much people. 'toxic masculinity' will be gone soon enough. after they complete brainwash of the masses gender neutrality will be fully achieved. and then it'll just be the 'cart person' standing there.

How horrible. Seeing a woman/girl as a person. /s

[rsj1360]

How would you behave if a family member is with you? Would you want your daughter to work there? Some people don’t mind if their daughter uses their “assets” to earn a bigger income, some would be mortified. But again if there is a problem the clubs management needs to address it.

 

My family members are free to choose whatever profession they desire. I would hope my daughters would be smart enough and strong enough to leave an abusive environment, not go back year after year.

So your solution for your daughter would be to tell her to leave a job she likes, and comes with some nice perks. Or put up with adult men behaving inappropriately.

 

As I said before, that is not a true choice.

[Sean2]

really, please don't worry about this much people. 'toxic masculinity' will be gone soon enough. after they complete brainwash of the masses gender neutrality will be fully achieved. and then it'll just be the 'cart person' standing there.

 

"Toxic masculinity." What a load of BS. I would hazard a guess that industries such as roofing, construction, garbage hauling, etc., are male dominated. You don't see women flocking to these occupations, just "toxic males". Who cuts the grass? Takes out the trash? Shovels the snow? Who goes to war? The "toxic male".

 

The only way to prevent "toxic masculinity" is to change the genome of the male of the species. We are wired a certain way. It's not toxic. It's biology.

 

That all said, the "toxic male" can still be kind and respectful. But to be labeled as "toxic" simply by virtue of one's sex is misguided at best and destructive at worst. Why not criticize a tree for being too tall, or a bird for flying too low?

 

The idiocy being bruited about today is absolutely breathtaking.

[ratspros]

really, please don't worry about this much people. 'toxic masculinity' will be gone soon enough. after they complete brainwash of the masses gender neutrality will be fully achieved. and then it'll just be the 'cart person' standing there.

 

"Toxic masculinity." What a load of BS. I would hazard a guess that industries such as roofing, construction, garbage hauling, etc., are male dominated. You don't see women flocking to these occupations, just "toxic males". Who cuts the grass? Takes out the trash? Shovels the snow? Who goes to war? The "toxic male".

 

The only way to prevent "toxic masculinity" is to change the genome of the male of the species. We are wired a certain way. It's not toxic. It's biology.

 

That all said, the "toxic male" can still be kind and respectful. But to be labeled as "toxic" simply by virtue of one's sex is misguided at best and destructive at worst. Why not criticize a tree for being too tall, or a bird for flying too low?

 

The idiocy being bruited about today is absolutely breathtaking.

 

Woooooooosh!!!!!!!!

 

That's the sound of his sarcasm flying over your head.

[huskydawg]

I'll also add, given some of the context of the thread...that it's really easy for a man to say "just brush it off" , we have never really been in the same position. Women at all times have to deal with the fact that if a man wants to get physical with them, threaten them etc. There's nothing they can do about it...were stronger, it's usually that simple. They kinda have a built in uneasy-ness around guys they aren't sure they can trust

 

Imagine if in every social situation you were in the opposite person had a gun and you didn't. Obviously being in public negates it some....but men have a hard time understanding that feeling of unease

 

I mean none of us have to worry about going running after dark. Well unless you live in st Louis

 

Well, not nothing. There may be a reason why the human testicle is an external organ and hurts severely when struck. Otherwise, pepper spray, an airhorn, or good old fashioned martial arts could take care of the problem.

[Swisstrader98]

I’ve personally never witnessed it and if any of the guys in our group instigated something like this we’d be all over him. We’re a very relaxed and happy go lucky group but we all have a deep respect for women. How could you not?

[DavePelz4]

My course solved this problem... They have a heavy set 60 something male named Norm.

 

Is it this guy???

 

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

really, please don't worry about this much people. 'toxic masculinity' will be gone soon enough. after they complete brainwash of the masses gender neutrality will be fully achieved. and then it'll just be the 'cart person' standing there.

 

"Toxic masculinity." What a load of BS. I would hazard a guess that industries such as roofing, construction, garbage hauling, etc., are male dominated. You don't see women flocking to these occupations, just "toxic males". Who cuts the grass? Takes out the trash? Shovels the snow? Who goes to war? The "toxic male".

 

The only way to prevent "toxic masculinity" is to change the genome of the male of the species. We are wired a certain way. It's not toxic. It's biology.

 

That all said, the "toxic male" can still be kind and respectful. But to be labeled as "toxic" simply by virtue of one's sex is misguided at best and destructive at worst. Why not criticize a tree for being too tall, or a bird for flying too low?

 

The idiocy being bruited about today is absolutely breathtaking.

 

Woooooooosh!!!!!!!!

 

That's the sound of his sarcasm flying over your head.

rats, I believe Sean's to be only an addendum to my initial, I do not believe at all my post being completely lost on him. and to clarify I wasn't being totally sarcastic, but more kind of dismissive. I for one am completely puzzled by the willy nilly agenda of those trying to impose this on us. I really haven't heard a clear explanation from anyone what the purpose/ benefit is of all a sudden erasing the male, and by proxy erasing biology. all I know is I am personally not signing up for the subscription to it. edit: anyway, I started this side conversation (inadvertently), please let me ask to just end it before we get some "things are getting too political" clean-up on this thread from the mods... now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[Circaflex]

The crazy part about these situations is that they are not limited to public or cheaper courses, I have played my fair share of private or expensive courses and see the same behavior. It is really cringe-worthy to hear or see some old guy yelling at the cart girl and being overly touchy with them. Most of the time you can tell the cart girl feels uncomfortable, however they either put up with it because management doesnt care or they make good tips. I can see it both ways, I know for sure I have seen cart girls who use their good looks and flirtatious attitude to land some major tips, but it is still awkward. I also see the other side where the girl is attractive, or maybe even not, and she feels put off by the overly bearing weirdos that want drinks on the course. Luckily for me, I play with some stand up guys, most of whom are married or in long term relationships and we dont associate with the typical frat boys on the course, we also don't drink while playing so my interactions with the girls are usually minimal. I will have to ask my friend who was a cart girl during college to share some stories, she is attractive and athletic so I am sure there are some stories to be shared.

[farmer]

Long ago, before I was married, I had broken off a long term relationship. I was playing golf with a buddy at a local muni. The cart girl came around and she was very attractive. More "girl next door" than supermodel. After our first interaction I commented to my friend how attractive I found her. He dared me to ask her out.

 

The next time she came around we chatted a little and I asked her for her number. She said she would think about it and then drove off. I thought that would be the end of that for sure. We hit the 18th tee box when she came around the corner. She approached me and said she had given it some thought. She said I seemed like a nice guy and she gave me her number.

 

I called her the next day and we went out on a date. It was awesome and we got along marvelously. The only issue was she was only in town for the summer - she attended college 5 hours away. We dated for the next two months while she was home and then maintained a long-distance relationship for about 6 more months until it made things difficult. To me, she will always be the one that got away.

If you're married, do not ever share this story with your wife.