Titleist AP2: Club Fitting Results

[lowndes]

Hi - quick question I could use help with. I got fit for clubs today and the set that fit me the best was the AP2s. To get the correct launch characteristics the fitter suggested I bend the lofts strong so the lofts are effectively the same as the AP3s (2 degrees in longer irons and 3 degrees in the shorter irons). This is essentially bending each club to be one club stronger in the set. My question is why wouldn’t I just buy 3-9 (actually would buy 3-PW and not have a Vokey 48) as opposed to 4-PW ( + 48 Vokey)?

[Kevin_J]

I think one aspect I would be concerned about would be the effective bounce and grind changes those loft changes would create...

[Tommy56]

I agree. Bending the AP2s that much stronger will reduce the bounce angle by the same amount and alter the turf interaction. I'd want to first test on real grass to validate overall performance.

[falken19150]

That's pretty sizable adjustment, what was the reasoning put forth? Also what shafts were you being fit to?

[lowndes]

Reasoning I was told is that I have a high ball flight and the stronger lofts bring that down more in line with what is ideal. The shafts I was fitted with are the DG AMT Tour S400. I guess I don’t fully understand why I wouldn’t just hit a 5 iron as opposed to a six iron instead of bending the clubs to be stronger.

[JoeJoeJoeUrBoat]

Sounds like you need a shaft change instead of a drastic loft change if you hit the ball that high.

[Stuart_G]

Sorry, everyone is different but very few amateurs will be able to notice a 2/3* change in bounce much less have any problems as a result.

 

My question is why wouldn't I just buy 3-9 (actually would buy 3-PW and not have a Vokey 48) as opposed to 4-PW ( + 48 Vokey)?

 

NO major reason. We're talking about a 1/2 club difference so it all comes down to how you want to manage your gaps between the set and your other wedges and whether you are willing (or need) to change the wedge set-up to get the desired gaps.

 

 

 

Reasoning I was told is that I have a high ball flight and the stronger lofts bring that down more in line with what is ideal. The shafts I was fitted with are the DG AMT Tour S400. I guess I don’t fully understand why I wouldn’t just hit a 5 iron as opposed to a six iron instead of bending the clubs to be stronger.

 

Well, it's not exactly the same due to the different playing lengths - that can possibly mean slightly different ball speeds and slightly different apex values. Can't say how much of a difference and it's hard to say if the decent angles might change or not.

[Aviador Naval]

I mostly agree with Stuart but would offer it is possible it could matter to you.

 

I have 718 AP2 bent 1 degree strong and suspect I could easily take another degree strong without noticing. However, I have a moderate swing speed and although I generally make solid contact I don't substantially de-loft the club at impact like many high swing speed very late release folks do.

 

On the other hand, I had this set built slightly different from my 714 and 716 sets. The change was a mere 1/4" long and one degree flat. I've never hit the ball better in terms of solid contact and my left/right dispersion has tightened up noticeably.

 

Sometimes small tweaks matter - sometimes they don't.

[flog2]

Sounds like you need a shaft change instead of a drastic loft change if you hit the ball that high.

 

^^this..............try the Modus 3 120S way better than the amt shafts........in my humble opinion

[Stuart_G]

Sounds like you need a shaft change instead of a drastic loft change if you hit the ball that high.

 

^^this..............try the Modus 3 120S way better than the amt shafts........in my humble opinion

 

Well better is subjective so it's possible they may feel better - but I'd be wary. They are significantly softer then the AMT's - which could potentially make them launch even higher for the OP. The 120 x-stiff would be better - but even in x-flex, they are still a little bit softer and potentially higher launching then the AMT's.

[lowndes]

I hit a bunch of different shafts and got the best results with the AMT and like the way it felt the most. Definitely plan to go with that shaft. Since these are forged it’s pretty easy to change the loft and lie if needed once I get the clubs, correct?

[monkeyboy]

I'm no expert but I was looking the other day on a Titleist site about bending the AP-2s strong. The posted info from a Titleist rep was to not exceed 2 degrees when bending, otherwise you run the risk of affecting structural integrity.

 

Again - I am NOT an expert, just passing along what I read on the internet, which may or may not be fact.

 

Just so you have all the data you need before deciding.

[Sean2]

I agree with what others have said. I find it all a bit odd that a shaft with the correct couldn't be found. I know you like the AMT's, but changing a club that much...I would be hesitant. Did you try the Nippon NS Pro line? They launch fairly high and have a good feel to them.

[North Butte]

The ain't a shaft in the world going to make as much difference as a 3-degree stronger loft. Three degrees, that's almost a full club stronger!

[Golf64]

OP, time for a second opinion?! Jason day hits a high ball and I doubt he has 'stronger' lofts?! ;)

[lowndes]

OP, time for a second opinion?! Jason day hits a high ball and I doubt he has 'stronger' lofts?! ;)

 

Well - I didn’t fact check him but the fitter did tell me that Jason Day plays his clubs 2 degrees strong as well to get better launch conditions for him. No idea if that is correct though.

[lowndes]

I agree with what others have said. I find it all a bit odd that a shaft with the correct couldn't be found. I know you like the AMT's, but changing a club that much...I would be hesitant. Did you try the Nippon NS Pro line? They launch fairly high and have a good feel to them.

 

I’m not a 100% sure which shafts I hit. I hit about 6-7 different ones (and I had no idea which shafts I was hitting at the time) and simply went with the shaft that had the best launch characteristics for my swing (which happened to be the one I liked the feel of the most).

[Sean2]

I agree with what others have said. I find it all a bit odd that a shaft with the correct couldn't be found. I know you like the AMT's, but changing a club that much...I would be hesitant. Did you try the Nippon NS Pro line? They launch fairly high and have a good feel to them.

 

I’m not a 100% sure which shafts I hit. I hit about 6-7 different ones (and I had no idea which shafts I was hitting at the time) and simply went with the shaft that had the best launch characteristics for my swing (which happened to be the one I liked the feel of the most).

 

It just seems odd is all. I never heard of that kind of adjustment being made before. I know you are anxious to get the clubs and all, but hopefully you will get more responses, perhaps from a fitter or two, so you can make an informed decision.

 

Or, change the title of your thread to something like: A Question for Club Fitters

[Whiskey_fire]

J day does in fact play stronger lofts.

[lowndes]

I agree with what others have said. I find it all a bit odd that a shaft with the correct couldn't be found. I know you like the AMT's, but changing a club that much...I would be hesitant. Did you try the Nippon NS Pro line? They launch fairly high and have a good feel to them.

 

I’m not a 100% sure which shafts I hit. I hit about 6-7 different ones (and I had no idea which shafts I was hitting at the time) and simply went with the shaft that had the best launch characteristics for my swing (which happened to be the one I liked the feel of the most).

 

It just seems odd is all. I never heard of that kind of adjustment being made before. I know you are anxious to get the clubs and all, but hopefully you will get more responses, perhaps from a fitter or two, so you can make an informed decision.

 

Or, change the title of your thread to something like: A Question for Club Fitters

 

Thanks - and maybe I do need a second opinion. For one I was a bit surprised I should get the AP2s as opposed to the AP3s as I currently play the 710 AP1s and am about a 12 handicap who hasn’t golfed in 4 years. My six iron swing speed was around 84mph. Basically I’m bending the lofts to be same as the AP3s. I paid $150 for the fitting so just wish I was leaving with more confidence that I was getting the right set for me.

[Sean2]

^^^I don't blame you. It's a good thing you are doing a bit of research.

[b_riedy]

Seems like a swing issue to me - releasing early. 2* is no problem, but there are other causes of the high launch you may need to work out....speaking from experience. ;-)

 

[lowndes]

Seems like a swing issue to me - releasing early. 2* is no problem, but there are other causes of the high launch you may need to work out....speaking from experience. ;-)

 

Absolutely - been a problem my whole golfing life honestly.

[Stuart_G]

For one I was a bit surprised I should get the AP2s as opposed to the AP3s as I currently play the 710 AP1s and am about a 12 handicap who hasn’t golfed in 4 years.

 

Your original post wasn't all that specific - it only really said AP2's "fit you best" compared to the AP3's. Can you be a bit more specific about exactly how they were a better fit? When you tested the two against each other, was it with the same shaft? (if it wasn't, that would be my biggest concern).

 

Nothing wrong with a second opinion but the fitter knew the lofts would be close to what they'd be with the bent AP2's so there must have been something else in the results and data that lead you (plural) to the conclusion that the AP2's would be a better fit.

 

If you dont' remember, it certainly couldn't hurt to call up the fitter and talk with more about the results.

 

Also, there certainly is nothing about the info you gave about yourself or your swing that would really lead to the AP3's being a better fit then the ap2's - so don't get too caught up in that preconception you developed.

 

I find it all a bit odd that a shaft with the correct couldn't be found. I know you like the AMT's, but changing a club that much...I would be hesitant. Did you try the Nippon NS Pro line? They launch fairly high and have a good feel to them.

 

Few good fitters will even try to correct launch/spin issues with the shaft. Maybe some minor tweaks depending on the players swing but in general it can be a horribly ineffective and unpredictable approach. Managing it with the lofts (within reason) is much more effective. And if that's not enough, the issue is really in the swing and dynamic loft delivered, not from the shaft. Sure, they need to check a range of profiles to see if the player has certain inherent "preferences" and sensitivities for the feel from the bend profile, but that's largely about managing consistency and face control, not as much dynamic loft.

 

If the AMT's really are a good fit, the NS Pro's would be way too light - and also likely too soft as well so might add even more to the launch. But weight is much more important then flex so the bigger issue. Of course, that assumes that the fitter really did properly fit for shaft weight - which is probable considering the number of shafts he said he went through during the fitting.

[lowndes]

For one I was a bit surprised I should get the AP2s as opposed to the AP3s as I currently play the 710 AP1s and am about a 12 handicap who hasn’t golfed in 4 years.

 

Your original post wasn't all that specific - it only really said AP2's "fit you best" compared to the AP3's. Can you be a bit more specific about exactly how they were a better fit? When you tested the two against each other, was it with the same shaft? (if it wasn't, that would be my biggest concern).

 

Nothing wrong with a second opinion but the fitter knew the lofts would be close to what they'd be with the bent AP2's so there must have been something else in the results and data that lead you (plural) to the conclusion that the AP2's would be a better fit.

 

If you dont' remember, it certainly couldn't hurt to call up the fitter and talk with more about the results.

 

Also, there certainly is nothing about the info you gave about yourself or your swing that would really lead to the AP3's being a better fit then the ap2's - so don't get too caught up in that preconception you developed.

 

I find it all a bit odd that a shaft with the correct couldn't be found. I know you like the AMT's, but changing a club that much...I would be hesitant. Did you try the Nippon NS Pro line? They launch fairly high and have a good feel to them.

 

Few good fitters will even try to correct launch/spin issues with the shaft. It's horribly ineffective and unpredictable approach. Managing it with the lofts (within reason) is much more effective. And if that's not enough, the issue is really in the swing and dynamic loft delivered, not from the shaft. Sure, they need to check a range of profiles to see if the player has certain inherent "preferences" and sensitivities for the feel from the bend profile, but that's largely about managing consistency and face control, not as much dynamic loft.

 

If the AMT's really are a good fit, the NS Pro's would be way too light - and also likely too soft as well so might add even more to the launch. But weight is much more important then flex so the bigger issue. Of course, that assumes that the fitter really did properly fit for shaft weight - which is probable considering the number of shafts he said he went through during the fitting.

 

Basically the first part of my fitting was trying a bunch of different shafts on the AP3. The goal here was getting the shaft with the most consistent smash factor. That’s how we decided on the DG AMT S400. Then we went through the various heads (AP3, Mizuno, Miura, Callaway and a TaylorMade). This was to identify which head fit me the best. The fitter tossed out my bad shots and just kept the ones I struck well. My miss is normally fat so that is why he didn’t think I would get much more forgiveness with the AP3 vs AP2. The best clubs for me were the Miura or AP2 (pretty similar) followed by AP3. This was based on the launch and spin of the various combos. We then hit off a lie board with the AP2s to get that I need them 1 degree upright. That was pretty much the whole process. All of this was indoor on a TrackMan.

[Nixhex524]

Did you get to try out the Srixon line by any chance? I know they are a little stronger lofts already from the AP2... I have the 745 and the 716 AP2... PX 5.5 flighted in the 745 and regular PX 5.5 in the AP2.. I find that the AP2 launch higher for me as well... I think the CG in them causes this kind of flight which is good if that's what you're looking for but I prefer the more penetrating, piercing flight of the 745s. I wonder if maybe the 765 or 565 might help bring it down a little... that probably means another fitting though..:(

 

I just found the the AP2 to launch high as well... got them brand new and haven't played them much because of it. GL OP.... does seem like a lot of bending though...

[Pulric1]

I'm no expert but I was looking the other day on a Titleist site about bending the AP-2s strong. The posted info from a Titleist rep was to not exceed 2 degrees when bending, otherwise you run the risk of affecting structural integrity.

 

Again - I am NOT an expert, just passing along what I read on the internet, which may or may not be fact.

 

Just so you have all the data you need before deciding.

 

So from my last fitting from TPI in December 2017, my fitter had me switch from my MB CB combo set to a MB AP2 combo set because of getting height. The AP2 launches higher, I also have my lofts 2* weak so I gap nicer in my AP2's, MB's are 1 weak so I can keep a vokey 48*. Granted I'm sure the fitting you got isn't like at TPI where you work on each individual club all day, but I would think if you can go 2* weak you can go 2 strong.

 

I agree also with the bounce differences, not a big deal.

 

Did you really like the AP2s? I know you said you like AMT's, but both of these don't add up you hit it "too high". Not bashing the fitter, but unless you really wanted that combo, I would think you'd be in a different head and shaft since those are the highest launching players head and highest launching DG shaft that you can get.

 

Lastly the vokey would fit fine, but if you're going strong the 46* would fit better.

[Tasals]

OP, time for a second opinion?! Jason day hits a high ball and I doubt he has 'stronger' lofts?! ;)

 

Well - I didn’t fact check him but the fitter did tell me that Jason Day plays his clubs 2 degrees strong as well to get better launch conditions for him. No idea if that is correct though.

 

He also plays DGX7s to combat high launch, those shafts are pretty beefy and keep the ball low. But low for him is massively different for most other golfers.

 

Your two best options are either the X7s or the C-Tapers. The X7s are not available to demo everywhere though but the C-Tapers are pretty common.

 

Edit: You could also look into the PX 7.0s.

[mxskier]

What were your data points? Give us launch angle, ball speed, spin, and peak height. Without all of that data were just giving incomplete recommendations to an incomplete question.

[Derek666]

Was it the older AMT Tour shaft you were fitted into or the new AMT tour white? (I assume it wasnt red or black) Just the older AMT tour S400 is 114-132g and the S300 & X100 in the AMT Tour white is 106-130g so to lower your flight the S400 DG tour is 132g throughout and would be better but since you can only lower the flight so much with the shaft that's prob. why the fitter has suggested the 2deg strong but maybe the AP2 just isn't the right head for you at all. Seems like a strange fitting.