Cage Match to the DEATH: LPGA Tour vs. Middle-aged Scratch and Below

[isaacbm]

Played with one of the longest hitting div one amateur women in the country today. She goes to Texas San Antonio full scholarship.
Swing speed is just under 115 average. 

 

I’ve played hundreds of professional and amateur tournaments in my life and I have yet to see any woman hit as far as her… 

 

We played from 7200 yards rated 74.5/140 and she made six birdies and shot two under. I’m currently +.3. Got smoked shooting 74. 
 

third person in our group is the number one ranked male junior in Western Canada. He made a total of zero putts over 7 feet and shot 65. He’s a +8.5. 
 

Cruises at 126 mph. 
 

im out of my depth in this group… 😐🤣

 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

7 minutes ago, isaacbm said:

Played with one of the longest hitting div one amateur women in the country today. She goes to Texas San Antonio full scholarship.
Swing speed is just under 115 average. 

 

I’ve played hundreds of professional and amateur tournaments in my life and I have yet to see any woman hit as far as her… 

 

We played from 7200 yards rated 74.5/140 and she made six birdies and shot two under. I’m currently +.3. Got smoked shooting 74. 
 

third person in our group is the number one ranked male junior in Western Canada. He made a total of zero putts over 7 feet and shot 65. He’s a +8.5. 
 

Cruises at 126 mph. 
 

im out of my depth in this group… 😐🤣

 

 

It’s an anecdote, but this sounds about right.

[NorthTexasGlfr]

18 hours ago, isaacbm said:

Played with one of the longest hitting div one amateur women in the country today. She goes to Texas San Antonio full scholarship.
Swing speed is just under 115 average. 

 

I’ve played hundreds of professional and amateur tournaments in my life and I have yet to see any woman hit as far as her… 

 

We played from 7200 yards rated 74.5/140 and she made six birdies and shot two under. I’m currently +.3. Got smoked shooting 74. 
 

third person in our group is the number one ranked male junior in Western Canada. He made a total of zero putts over 7 feet and shot 65. He’s a +8.5. 
 

Cruises at 126 mph. 
 

im out of my depth in this group… 😐🤣

 

 

 

Where did you play?

 

And I did take a look at the UTSA's roster but couldn't get a feel for which one of the girls you are talking about. Curious to know who but understand if you had rather not tell us. 

[WesternRacing]

18 hours ago, isaacbm said:

Played with one of the longest hitting div one amateur women in the country today. She goes to Texas San Antonio full scholarship.
Swing speed is just under 115 average. 

 

I’ve played hundreds of professional and amateur tournaments in my life and I have yet to see any woman hit as far as her… 

 

We played from 7200 yards rated 74.5/140 and she made six birdies and shot two under. I’m currently +.3. Got smoked shooting 74. 
 

third person in our group is the number one ranked male junior in Western Canada. He made a total of zero putts over 7 feet and shot 65. He’s a +8.5. 
 

Cruises at 126 mph. 
 

im out of my depth in this group… 😐🤣

 

 

 

Pfffttt.  Get outta here with your real world data.  We’ve got misinformed stereotypes to reinforce here!

[isaacbm]

15 hours ago, NorthTexasGlfr said:

 

Edited July 17 by isaacbm

[isaacbm]

3 hours ago, WesternRacing said:

 

Pfffttt.  Get outta here with your real world data.  We’ve got misinformed stereotypes to reinforce here!

To be fair, totally anecdotal example. But it was impressive to see her hit driver 280-300 12 times. She got 6 strokes off the other junior, she shot 71, and they tied! lol!  
 

Not many 40-60 year old scratch ams would have a “length advantage” on her. 😉

[PedronNiall]

On 7/14/2025 at 7:14 PM, lchang said:

 

I like that! I think the odds would be longer the more trouble there is. Even from 7200+ yards, the long hitting scratch will struggle against the LPGA pro if there are penal hazards everywhere. 

 

I'm envisioning a 475-yard par 4 with no trouble. Long hitting scratch likes it. 475-yard par 4 that punishes you badly for being offline? Well, we've all seen the LPGA pros hitting driver-hybrid right where they're looking over and over again. (And we've seen amateur scratches fighting a hook on every 4th swing, for example!)

 

No need to guess on this, it's posted earlier in the thread. Per Datagolf's analysis, in general the longer the hitter the more longer courses favor them, and the advantage tends to drop as course yardage drops. The effect of penal areas varies by the course. There are some shorter courses where longer hitters do better and some longer courses where the extra dispersion longer hitters face hurts them more on average than shorter players. 

 

The analysis includes the usual suspects for hosting professional and am events. 

[munichop]

I have commented on this before but it bears repeating that most lpga players score the way shorter mens players do, with their wedges and putters.  Most of them can’t overpower golf courses so they relie on fairways and greens to give them the most chances. They save shots with course management and sharp short games. While scratch players are good at these things the women pros are exceptional. That’s why they make a living playing the game.

[Pnwpingi210]

11 hours ago, isaacbm said:

To be fair, totally anecdotal example. But it was impressive to see her hit driver 280-300 12 times. She got 6 strokes off the other junior, she shot 71, and they tied! lol!  
 

Not many 40-60 year old scratch ams would have a “length advantage” on her. 😉

I saw a couple rounds of the lpga at sahlee last year.

 

there is zero chance a scratch golf goes out on that course they played and shoots anything close to what they put up over 4 rounds.  
 

The only chance a scratch men’s golf would have is if you compared the score a scratch would shoot ( my guess is low to mid 80s) against a lpga golfer that wasn’t playing well that day and continued to take on risk and failed since it was tournament golf and they had not choice to do that to make the cut.  Thats the fallacy of taking an lpga tournament rounds and comparing them to what a scratch might shoot. 

 

head to head if the lpga pro knew they only needed a 78 to beat the scratch male golfer they would have no problem.

Edited July 17 by Pnwpingi210

[Obee]

13 hours ago, isaacbm said:

To be fair, totally anecdotal example. But it was impressive to see her hit driver 280-300 12 times. She got 6 strokes off the other junior, she shot 71, and they tied! lol!  
 

Not many 40-60 year old scratch ams would have a “length advantage” on her. 😉

At altitude. BFD...

I can hit 7h two times and hit it that far!!!

[Obee]

1 hour ago, Obee said:

At altitude. BFD...

I can hit 7h two times and hit it that far!!!

@Pnwpingi210 Dude. The sad face? Are you lacking a sarcasm/irony/joke filter?

Were the three exclamation points not enough for you to get that I'm ... joking?

[FootWedge16]

19 hours ago, NorthTexasGlfr said:

 

Where did you play?

 

And I did take a look at the UTSA's roster but couldn't get a feel for which one of the girls you are talking about. Curious to know who but understand if you had rather not tell us. 

 

The only course I can think of that is close to what he described (Yards/Slope/Rating) in San Antonio is Cedar Creek. I've played every course in the surrounding area and can't think of another that matches more closely than Cedar. But I could be wrong. 

[Santiago Golf]

the match already happen ... Michelle Wie made the match play in the US Publinks when she was a teenager ... I think this is proof enough

[Pnwpingi210]

7 minutes ago, Santiago Golf said:

the match already happen ... Michelle Wie made the match play in the US Publinks when she was a teenager ... I think this is proof enough

Bingo…. She lost to the eventual champion of the tournament, but she beat two men, both better than scratch…. (One the reigning naia national champion Jim Renner who was 5 years older than wie and ended up playing professionally including on the pga tour)

 

but yeah Jonny 0 handicap could beat her probaly 40 % of the time based on back of the napkin math statisticians 🙄🙄

 

 

 

“Wie, of Honolulu, Hawaii, and the first female to qualify for a USGA men’s championship, defeated C.D. Hockersmith of Richmond, Ind., 6 and 5 in the morning before outlasting reigning NAIA national champion Jim Renner of Plainville, Mass., in the round of 16, 3 and 1. Wie now meets 2004 APL quarterfinalist Clay Ogden of West Point, Utah in the quarters on Friday at 7:50 a.m.”

 

Edited July 18 by Pnwpingi210

[Santiago Golf]

2 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Bingo…. She lost to the eventual champion of the tournament, but she beat two men, both better than scratch…. (One the reigning naia national champion Jim Renner who was 5 years older than wie and ended up playing professionally including on the pga tour)

 

but yeah Jonny 0 handicap could beat her probaly 40 % of the time based on back of the napkin math statisticians 🙄🙄

 

 

 

“Wie, of Honolulu, Hawaii, and the first female to qualify for a USGA men’s championship, defeated C.D. Hockersmith of Richmond, Ind., 6 and 5 in the morning before outlasting reigning NAIA national champion Jim Renner of Plainville, Mass., in the round of 16, 3 and 1. Wie now meets 2004 APL quarterfinalist Clay Ogden of West Point, Utah in the quarters on Friday at 7:50 a.m.”

 

 

Lexi Thompson, Annika Sorestan, and Michelle Wie all had great chances at making the cut in PGA Tour events ... if you say that you can beat a LPGA Tour player ... you are basically saying you can make the cut on the PGA Tour

 

these people are crazy

[iBanesto]

10 hours ago, Santiago Golf said:

 

Lexi Thompson, Annika Sorestan, and Michelle Wie all had great chances at making the cut in PGA Tour events ... if you say that you can beat a LPGA Tour player ... you are basically saying you can make the cut on the PGA Tour

 

these people are crazy

 

Sorenstam beat these tour professionals at the 2003 Colonial tournament.

 

It includes major champions, a Players champion and multiple time winners on the PGA Tour.

 

	-	Mark Brooks	CUT	72	74	--	--	146	--
	-	Aaron Barber	CUT	72	74	--	--	146	--
	-	Dan Pohl	CUT	75	72	--	--	147	--
	-	Bob Estes	CUT	73	74	--	--	147	--
	-	Geoff Ogilvy	CUT	72	75	--	--	147	--
	-	Kevin Sutherland	CUT	76	72	--	--	148	--
	-	James McLean	CUT	72	76	--	--	148	--
	-	Scott McCarron	CUT	74	76	--	--	150	--
	-	Craig Perks	CUT	73	77	--	--	150	--
	-	Rod Curl	CUT	78	76	--	--	154

[isaacbm]

On 7/17/2025 at 12:16 PM, FootWedge16 said:

 

The only course I can think of that is close to what he described (Yards/Slope/Rating) in San Antonio is Cedar Creek. I've played every course in the surrounding area and can't think of another that matches more closely than Cedar. But I could be wrong. 

Played in Calgary Alberta. 

[straightshot7]

22 hours ago, Santiago Golf said:

 

Lexi Thompson, Annika Sorestan, and Michelle Wie all had great chances at making the cut in PGA Tour events ... if you say that you can beat a LPGA Tour player ... you are basically saying you can make the cut on the PGA Tour

 

these people are crazy

That’s a bit of a stretch isn’t it?

 

I thought the question was “scratch” vs average lpga tour player. 
 

if you said Lexi, Annika or Michelle at their peak/prime — different question.

 

those are three of the more talented women of all time. 
 

Prime Annika >>>> average lpga player 

[Pnwpingi210]

19 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

That’s a bit of a stretch isn’t it?

 

I thought the question was “scratch” vs average lpga tour player. 
 

if you said Lexi, Annika or Michelle at their peak/prime — different question.

 

those are three of the more talented women of all time. 
 

Prime Annika >>>> average lpga player 

You know prime Annika didn’t win every tournament and got bested by average lpga players…..

 

im not smart enough (or bored enough)  to convert a +6 to 8 women’s handicap to a men’s handicap but someone here is.

 

 Let’s do that, and then use a mathematical table to predict (like pope of slope) the likely hood of the scratch shooting 0 thru -4 differentials and then see often a lpga (plus 6 to 8 womens converted to mens) shoots a better than those differentials.  Start with 20 rounds.
 

(also just for context you know the the men annika beat were card carrying tour  pros that will beat a scratch male golf🤣.  Also Michelle wie was like 15 when she beat Men’s  elite amatuers and future pga tour players l, whom were all significantly older than her).

 

 

Edited July 19 by Pnwpingi210

[StoutKing]

On 7/15/2025 at 9:24 PM, isaacbm said:

Played with one of the longest hitting div one amateur women in the country today. She goes to Texas San Antonio full scholarship.
Swing speed is just under 115 average. 

 

I’ve played hundreds of professional and amateur tournaments in my life and I have yet to see any woman hit as far as her… 

 

We played from 7200 yards rated 74.5/140 and she made six birdies and shot two under. I’m currently +.3. Got smoked shooting 74. 
 

third person in our group is the number one ranked male junior in Western Canada. He made a total of zero putts over 7 feet and shot 65. He’s a +8.5. 
 

Cruises at 126 mph. 
 

im out of my depth in this group… 😐🤣

 

 

Would love to see these players play that exact course with persimmon and balata to see if they could still score before the modern tech.  

[straightshot7]

27 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

You know prime Annika didn’t win every tournament and got bested by average lpga players…..

 

im not smart enough (or bored enough)  to convert a +6 to 8 women’s handicap to a men’s handicap but someone here is.

 

 Let’s do that, and then use a mathematical table to predict (like pope of slope) the likely hood of the scratch shooting 0 thru -4 differentials and then see often a lpga (plus 6 to 8 womens converted to mens) shoots a better than those differentials.  Start with 20 rounds.
 

(also just for context you know the the men annika beat were card carrying tour  pros that will beat a scratch male golf🤣.  Also Michelle wie was like 15 when she beat Men’s  elite amatuers and future pga tour players l, whom were all significantly older than her).

 

 

I think this has already been discussed at length… 

 

and the point is anyone who is good at golf can potentially beat anyone else at golf on a given day.

 

wie wouldn’t be able to keep her Tour card, for example. &nbsp
 

but she was able to beat some players who are clearly better than her (in the long run) 1 day. Or over 2 days. Or 4 days. 

 

So not sure your point? 
 

this actually supports the theory that a “scratch” man would be able to beat an (superior) average lpga player once or twice out of 20 tries for example. 
 

Wie is basically the scratch male in this scenario. Able to beat some superior players but lose to many others. But over the course of a year, she wouldn’t rank well and no one is arguing she is better than those players she beat. 

Edited July 19 by straightshot7

[Pnwpingi210]

6 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

I think this has already been discussed at length… 

 

and the point is anyone who is good at golf can potentially beat anyone else at golf on a given day.

 

wie wouldn’t be able to keep her Tour card, for example. &nbsp
 

but she was able to beat some players who are clearly better than her (in the long run) 1 day. Or over 2 days. Or 4 days. 

 

So not sure your point? 
 

this actually supports the theory that a “scratch” man would be able to beat an (superior) average lpga player once or twice out of 20 tries for example. 

can you help me find it??  I’ll I see is somebody saying a scratch has the potential to got xx in xx rounds.

 

no body can show how often a lpga play would shoot lower than the probability of the scratch’s best round.

 

so if 80 percent of the lpga players rounds are lower then the best 20 percent of the scratch’s rounds.   It’s highly unlikely and very low probability that 1 if those scratches great grounds occurs during 1 of the 4 worst rounds the lpga player shoots, assuming they played 20 rounds.

 

Using you logic  I guess it’s like saying can a 10 handicap man beat a scratch man…. It could happen but not often enough to considered it

Edited July 19 by Pnwpingi210

[straightshot7]

3 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

can you help me find it??  I’ll I see is somebody saying a scratch has the potential to got xx in xx rounds.

 

no body can show how often a lpga play would shoot lower than the probability of the scratch’s best round.

 

so if 80 percent of the lpga players rounds are lower then the best 20 percent of the scratch’s rounds.   It’s highly unlikely and very low probability that 1 if those scratches great grounds occurs during 1 of the 4 worst rounds the lpga player shoots, assuming they played 20 rounds.

i honestly don’t care to research or discuss this in detail. 

 

i think most of us agree there are some legit traveling scratches out there who wouldn’t finish DFL in an lpga event. 
 

If you disagree, cool. 
 

seems unlikely DFL every time though. 

Edited July 19 by straightshot7

[Pnwpingi210]

5 minutes ago, straightshot7 said:

i honestly don’t care to research or discuss this in detail. 

 

i think most of us agree there are some legit traveling scratches out there who wouldn’t finish DFL in an lpga event. 
 

If you disagree, cool. 
 

seems unlikely DFL every time though. 

I’m saying if a scratch golfer played head to head with a lpga tour pro over 20 round, they aren’t going to beat them. 
 

tournament golf is different and people shoot high scores cause they know they are out of it and have to take on risk.   If a professional plays a scratch head to head, they not going to have to take on risk.  Breezy walk in the park

 

(I’m also guess most of those that agree with you are scratching men that never player a lpga player 🤣)

Edited July 19 by Pnwpingi210

[PedronNiall]

1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

You know prime Annika didn’t win every tournament and got bested by average lpga players…..

 

im not smart enough (or bored enough)  to convert a +6 to 8 women’s handicap to a men’s handicap but someone here is.

 

 Let’s do that, and then use a mathematical table to predict (like pope of slope) the likely hood of the scratch shooting 0 thru -4 differentials and then see often a lpga (plus 6 to 8 womens converted to mens) shoots a better than those differentials.  Start with 20 rounds.
 

(also just for context you know the the men annika beat were card carrying tour  pros that will beat a scratch male golf🤣.  Also Michelle wie was like 15 when she beat Men’s  elite amatuers and future pga tour players l, whom were all significantly older than her).

 

 

 

Search for ThinkingPlus' posts in this thread. She already gave in more than one location what the better women's handicaps would translate to in men's and what level would be expected to be capable of beating them. 

[Pnwpingi210]

47 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

 

Search for ThinkingPlus' posts in this thread. She already gave in more than one location what the better women's handicaps would translate to in men's and what level would be expected to be capable of beating them. 

Well tried to use our search feature and failed to find them

[chisag]

1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I’m saying if a scratch golfer played head to head with a lpga tour pro over 20 round, they aren’t going to beat them. 

 

 

 

Walter Mitty on WRX

The short story deals with a vague and mild-mannered man who drives into Waterbury, Connecticut, with his wife for their regular weekly shopping and his wife's visit to the beauty parlor. During this time he has five heroic daydream episodes, each inspired by some detail of his mundane surroundings. The first is as a pilot of a U.S. Navy flying boat in a storm, followed by Mrs. Mitty's complaint that Mitty is "driving too fast". As he drives past a hospital, he imagines himself a magnificent surgeon performing a one-of-a-kind surgery. Later, a newsboy shouting about the "Waterbury Trial" begins Mitty's third fantasy, as a deadly assassintestifying in a courtroom. While waiting for his wife, he picks up an old copy of Liberty, reading "Can Germany Conquer the World Through the Air?", and begins his fourth daydream, as a Royal Air Force pilot volunteering for a daring suicide mission to bomb an ammunition dump. Watching an LPGA event Mitty dreams that as a scratch golfer he outdrives, out approaches and out short games the 50th ranked LPGA player in the world as WRX members chant his name."

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

 

Walter Mitty on WRX

The short story deals with a vague and mild-mannered man who drives into Waterbury, Connecticut, with his wife for their regular weekly shopping and his wife's visit to the beauty parlor. During this time he has five heroic daydream episodes, each inspired by some detail of his mundane surroundings. The first is as a pilot of a U.S. Navy flying boat in a storm, followed by Mrs. Mitty's complaint that Mitty is "driving too fast". As he drives past a hospital, he imagines himself a magnificent surgeon performing a one-of-a-kind surgery. Later, a newsboy shouting about the "Waterbury Trial" begins Mitty's third fantasy, as a deadly assassintestifying in a courtroom. While waiting for his wife, he picks up an old copy of Liberty, reading "Can Germany Conquer the World Through the Air?", and begins his fourth daydream, as a Royal Air Force pilot volunteering for a daring suicide mission to bomb an ammunition dump. Watching an LPGA event Mitty dreams that as a scratch golfer he outdrives, out approaches and out short games the 50th ranked LPGA player in the world as WRX members chant his name."

Yes!

 

 

[PedronNiall]

18 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Well tried to use our search feature and failed to find them

 

Use advanced search in this thread for posts by her, won't be hard to find. 

[Red4282]

Oh Wie and Annika beat some guys once… thats it, just combine both tours and call it a day.