Maltby TS2

[iamlowsound]

11 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

If the TS1 is to "bladey" the TS4 will be even further down the blade spectrum. As that's going to be their true muscle back blade. No magic goo or anything. Still will be a great head. But not the most forgiving of all the models mentioned.

The TS4 is supposed to have a higher MPF than the TS1, so by Maltby's opinion the TS4 will be more forgiving. The TS1 being hollow, my opinion is that they would maintain ball speed better on off centre strikes but that's just my guess. Regardless, the TS4 should be the most forgiving MB on the market. 

[Nideda24]

47 minutes ago, iamlowsound said:

I hit in the simulator a lot and the numbers I look at are launch and decent angle. Spin will play into both of those but when I'm getting 50° or higher decent angle with my mid and short irons, those are going to stop real quick no matter the spin. 

Agree that this is the key when talking about playability of modern irons. I posted some numbers of mine a few pages back and what wasn’t noted was the launch and decent angles of the TS3s were higher and steeper (over 50°) than my TS-1 at the same loft 32° for the 7 iron. So while the spin was slightly lower with TS3 as others have also reported when comparing to other Maltby irons, in my experience it’s more than offset by overall height, launch and decent angles. 

[NRJyzr]

59 minutes ago, iamlowsound said:

The TS4 is supposed to have a higher MPF than the TS1, so by Maltby's opinion the TS4 will be more forgiving. The TS1 being hollow, my opinion is that they would maintain ball speed better on off centre strikes but that's just my guess. Regardless, the TS4 should be the most forgiving MB on the market. 

 

Final MPF score is not a measure of forgiveness.  If you want to compare actual forgiveness, look at the MOI numbers.

 

The MPF score is determined from arithmetic that's not much more than C-Dimension minus Vertical COG.

 

[Srthom12]

12 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Yep. Too much emphasis on "classes" of irons that only certain players should go for. Gotta find what works for you and you're confident with. 

 

I personally hover around scratch. Have played true forged blades for over a decade. But this year have switched to a players distance iron. Don't really need the distance. But the added forgiveness is nice. On paper, I'm sure I'd be told that I should be playing blades (or at most a CB/MB combo) with X shafts. But why? Why not take advantage of slightly more forgiving head, that will do everything a blade can do for me and then some.

 

Too many get wrapped up in the pride of playing the most demanding clubs they can manage. Or at the other end of the spectrum, folks thinking they aren't good enough to play anything but ultra game improvement shovels. Nonsense. Experiment a little bit. Find a set that works for you, and leave all the theory and categories behind. 

Too much mental stuff, just gotta play what suits me. I’m noticing that the way the iron looks behind the ball has a lot more impact to me than I thought it would. I think with how little I play (full time work and full time nursing student) that I might lean towards the players distance category or some forged cavity backs like the Ts3. I’m finding that the super offset, chunky game improvement irons don’t do me any good and end up hurting my play. No feedback, lose the club head during the swing, and pull a nasty hook. 
 

My next question would be about shafts, do you know anywhere that I could find a shaft similar to the project x LZ that won’t cost me a full rent payment for a Set? Loved that shaft but damn are they expensive 

[SE Gamer]

19 minutes ago, Srthom12 said:

Too much mental stuff, just gotta play what suits me. I’m noticing that the way the iron looks behind the ball has a lot more impact to me than I thought it would. I think with how little I play (full time work and full time nursing student) that I might lean towards the players distance category or some forged cavity backs like the Ts3. I’m finding that the super offset, chunky game improvement irons don’t do me any good and end up hurting my play. No feedback, lose the club head during the swing, and pull a nasty hook. 
 

My next question would be about shafts, do you know anywhere that I could find a shaft similar to the project x LZ that won’t cost me a full rent payment for a Set? Loved that shaft but damn are they expensive 

 

Absolutely. Confidence in your gear has a significant impact. And a big part of confidence is how well your clubs fit your eye. 

As far as an affordable PX LZ shaft, someone else will have to chime in. Personally, I'd suggest just ordering a TS1 and/or TS3 7 iron with Maltby's stock TT LT Score shaft.

I played DG S300 for as long as I can remember. And really liked the feel and performance of the LT Score shaft. I frankly don't think there's a better value shaft out there. If it works for you, great! If not, you're not out a ton of money, and can easily have it pulled and swapped for something else. 

[brew4eagle]

1 hour ago, Srthom12 said:

Too much mental stuff, just gotta play what suits me. I’m noticing that the way the iron looks behind the ball has a lot more impact to me than I thought it would. I think with how little I play (full time work and full time nursing student) that I might lean towards the players distance category or some forged cavity backs like the Ts3. I’m finding that the super offset, chunky game improvement irons don’t do me any good and end up hurting my play. No feedback, lose the club head during the swing, and pull a nasty hook. 
 

My next question would be about shafts, do you know anywhere that I could find a shaft similar to the project x LZ that won’t cost me a full rent payment for a Set? Loved that shaft but damn are they expensive 

If the flex is right for you, maplehillgolf has Project X LZ 5.5 blackout shafts for $179 for 4-P

Edit- the available set is 5-P and G

Edited March 14, 2023 by brew4eagle

[Cwebb]

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Final MPF score is not a measure of forgiveness.  If you want to compare actual forgiveness, look at the MOI numbers.

 

 

Might be too simple of a generalization.  A higher MOI only enhances a "playable" or beneficial COG location in an iron.  It does not "cover up" for a hard to hit COG location.  Remember the old Tommy Armour Ti-100? 😉

 

In other words, if a player does a detailed comparison with everything fit and spec-ed the same, except the head designs....and finds an iron head that is easier to hit, would the player consider that easier to hit club "more forgiving"?

 

Do easier to hit iron heads always have a higher MOI?

 

Do harder to hit iron designs always have a lower MOI?

 

A lower Actual Vertical COG creates more room to work with lower on the face for relatively solid contact.  A longer horizontal COG creates more room to work with across the face for relatively solid contact.  Combine the two and we have a larger face area to play with, which as long as everything else is fit well to the player, results in a club that is easier to hit relatively solid at a higher percentage.

 

This is why Maltby iron designs have become so popular, without always having really high MOI.  Players find them easy to hit and forgiving

 

 

[iamlowsound]

4 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Final MPF score is not a measure of forgiveness.  If you want to compare actual forgiveness, look at the MOI numbers.

 

The MPF score is determined from arithmetic that's not much more than C-Dimension minus Vertical COG.

 

MPF was originally Ralph's way of determining forgiveness based on what he thought made an iron forgiving. Which is a low centre of gravity that's as close to the horizontal centre of the face as possible. MOI by itself also doesn't do a good job of explaining forgiveness, if it did then we'd all be talking about how the Taylor Made P7MC is a more forgiving iron than the P770 and how both are more forgiving than the TS1. Heck, the P7TW has a MOI that's barely lower than the TS1 and there is zero chance it's as forgiving. 

 

Lots of things make up forgiveness in an iron and MPF is a good summary of everything but isn't a be all end all for describing forgiveness. It's a good tool for putting different irons into buckets of forgiveness though. 

[gdb99]

Do all the new iron heads have the 17 grooves? I'm not a fan of the look. It's weird, I know.

[SE Gamer]

12 minutes ago, gdb99 said:

Do all the new iron heads have the 17 grooves? I'm not a fan of the look. It's weird, I know.

 

Easy fix with some JB Weld, Dremel, and a steady hand. 

[gioreeko]

11 hours ago, gdb99 said:

Do all the new iron heads have the 17 grooves? I'm not a fan of the look. It's weird, I know.

who cares how it looks?

[gdb99]

15 minutes ago, gioreeko said:

who cares how it looks?

I guess I do
 

Same with some Callaway irons. 

[NRJyzr]

21 minutes ago, gioreeko said:

who cares how it looks?

 

6 minutes ago, gdb99 said:

I guess I do
 

Same with some Callaway irons. 

 

It's no different than other club aspects.  Some like offset.  Some hate offset.  Some like larger clubheads in irons, others can't stand that look.

 

And then there are turbulators....  LOL

 

It's a thing.  And we all have "a thing."  It is what it is.  🙂

 

Edited March 15, 2023 by NRJyzr

[Bad9]

22 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

 

It's no different than other club aspects.  Some like offset.  Some hate offset.  Some like larger clubheads in irons, others can't stand that look.

 

And then there are turbulators....  LOL

 

It's a thing.  And we all have "a thing."  It is what it is.  🙂

 

 

My thing starts with a T

[brew4eagle]

I have a half set of TS3 on the way to me.  I'll be building the 5, 7, 9 irons with DG Mid 115 shafts.  Will go head-to-head vs. my DBM Forged w/ 1050GH shafts.

[pjc]

Very interested to hear your take on this new DG shaft.  I too currently play the Nippon 1050 and have been eyeballing the DG mid 100 and 115!

[gioreeko]

5 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

 

It's no different than other club aspects.  Some like offset.  Some hate offset.  Some like larger clubheads in irons, others can't stand that look.

 

And then there are turbulators....  LOL

 

It's a thing.  And we all have "a thing."  It is what it is.  🙂

 

have never seen anyone care how their grooves look, it's more functional than cosmetic

[brew4eagle]

2 minutes ago, gioreeko said:

have never seen anyone care how their grooves look, it's more functional than cosmetic

There's people that didn't like the number on the face that PING does, or the "x3x Grooves" microfont that was on the Nike VR Forged.  I do notice the way different grooves look at address, though I've never seen grooves that made me not like a club at address.  To each their own.

[NRJyzr]

On 3/14/2023 at 3:32 PM, Cwebb said:

 

Might be too simple of a generalization.  A higher MOI only enhances a "playable" or beneficial COG location in an iron.  It does not "cover up" for a hard to hit COG location.  Remember the old Tommy Armour Ti-100? 😉

 

In other words, if a player does a detailed comparison with everything fit and spec-ed the same, except the head designs....and finds an iron head that is easier to hit, would the player consider that easier to hit club "more forgiving"?

 

Do easier to hit iron heads always have a higher MOI?

 

Do harder to hit iron designs always have a lower MOI?

 

A lower Actual Vertical COG creates more room to work with lower on the face for relatively solid contact.  A longer horizontal COG creates more room to work with across the face for relatively solid contact.  Combine the two and we have a larger face area to play with, which as long as everything else is fit well to the player, results in a club that is easier to hit relatively solid at a higher percentage.

 

This is why Maltby iron designs have become so popular, without always having really high MOI.  Players find them easy to hit and forgiving

 

 

 

Was going to respond to this on Pi Day, but saw something shiny.  🙂

 

I admit I'm doing a literal parsing of the characteristics.  Sheer physical forgiveness from perimeter weighting doesn't guarantee such forgiveness is actually usable.  And your Ti-100 example is a perfect one, LOL.  Forgiving, but...  good luck with that.

 

Which is where Ralph Matlby's concept of "playability" enters the room.  All the MOI in the world isn't helpful if only your fattest shots actually hit the CG.  😉

 

In all the assorted discussions, I've found much of the anecdotal information around forgiveness rather interesting.  There's been much chatter about the amazing forgiveness of this or that clubhead, that actually aren't all that forgiving; a recent post talks of the Ping i5 in a glowing manner, but it has a lower MOI than the Eye2, and is actually closer to the Nike VR blades (or the originals) than the more recent i-series irons.  What it *does* have is a lower CG.

 

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?   LOL

 

In spite of how it may seem from my earlier post, I agree with the idea of managing your iron choices based on the CG location, more than on the pure forgiveness of the clubhead.  I'm still not a fan of  too much meaning being applied to the final MPF score.  😉

 

[brew4eagle]

Received the TS3 heads today.  Amazing looking, pics don't do them justice.  Very much in the DBM / TE family, but ever so slightly smaller blade length than the DBM which is a plus.

[Cwebb]

48 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

Received the TS3 heads today.  Amazing looking, pics don't do them justice.  Very much in the DBM / TE family, but ever so slightly smaller blade length than the DBM which is a plus.

 

Sometimes a thicker top-line can create the illusion of a shorter blade length.  Were you able to actually measure them?  They have the TS3 listed at 3.153" and the DBM at 3.103"

[brew4eagle]

2 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

Sometimes a thicker top-line can create the illusion of a shorter blade length.  Were you able to actually measure them?  They have the TS3 listed at 3.153" and the DBM at 3.103"

Comparing the grooved areas, the DBM is a decent amount longer.  Whether or not the full blade is longer I can't say.  But visually the grooves make the DBM look longer.  End result is the TS3 looks awesome with the slightly thicker topline and shorter grooved area.  The DBM looks a bit odd as the topline is almost too thin for its blade length.  Still love the DBM though.

 

Edit- pics of grooved areas to show what I'm referring to...

Edited March 17, 2023 by brew4eagle

[SE Gamer]

Anyone have decent experience with the Matlby hybrids?

 

Personally, I don't care for hybrids. But never really gave them a fair shot. Have a spot open at the top of the bag, and thinking about tinkering with either a KE4 Tour TC or Tour FDI (both have options in 19*).

 

Would be curious if anyone's hit both and landed on a favorite. 

 

 

[taki27]

1 hour ago, SE Gamer said:

Anyone have decent experience with the Matlby hybrids?

 

Personally, I don't care for hybrids. But never really gave them a fair shot. Have a spot open at the top of the bag, and thinking about tinkering with either a KE4 Tour TC or Tour FDI (both have options in 19*).

 

Would be curious if anyone's hit both and landed on a favorite. 

 

 

I play them both and usually go with the 19* hybrid.  It’s so easy to hit.  The FDI is nice also but the hybrid is so good.

[SE Gamer]

1 hour ago, taki27 said:

I play them both and usually go with the 19* hybrid.  It’s so easy to hit.  The FDI is nice also but the hybrid is so good.

 

So you have both in 19*? If so, how does ball flight and distance compare between the two?

[ChaosTheory]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:45 PM, gdb99 said:

Do all the new iron heads have the 17 grooves? I'm not a fan of the look. It's weird, I know.

I’m with you. If only because I can’t imagine that they know more about grooves than shops like Ping and Titleist.  I suspect the narrower, more numerous grooves are better in dry, clean conditions but I wonder about the rough.

 

 

[brew4eagle]

Doing my dry weights for my TS3 assembly.  Not too impressed with DG Mid 115 scatter.  Raw weights:  5 iron 115.6 g, 7 iron 110.8g, 9 iron 111.9 g.  Spec is 114g.

 

Fortunately the TS3 head weights worked out where I only need a tip weight on the 9 iron.  Aiming for D0

Edited March 17, 2023 by brew4eagle

[coreyhr]

After buying a 7 iron head to test, I ran across a good deal on a 6-GW  set of TS3's in the BST from another member and bought those. Took them out on the course yesterday to put up against my ZX7's. These things are really, really good. So easy to hit and just hold their line so well. They seem to be more fade biased than the ZX7's which I love. This set has AMT Black S300 shafts which are much lighter than I play, but I was still seeing great performance and consistency out of them. Definitely launch higher than my ZX7's, but the shaft has a little to do with that I'm sure. Going to put a set of spare KBS Tours in them this weekend and really see what they can do. 

 

I'm going to list my 7 iron head in the BST soon if anyone wants to save $15 or $20 on a test/demo head versus buying new. I also don't plan on using the GW if someone is interested in it.

Edited March 17, 2023 by coreyhr

[NRJyzr]

8 minutes ago, coreyhr said:

They seem to be more fade biased than the ZX7's which I love. This set has AMT Black S300 shafts which are much lighter than I play, but I was still seeing great performance and consistency out of them. Definitely launch higher than my ZX7's, but the shaft has a little to do with that I'm sure.

 

Just a guess, but the longer C-Dimension may be involved with the fade you're seeing.  The CG of the TS3 is almost a full quarter inch farther from the hosel than the ZX7.

 

And that CG is also quite a bit lower on the TS3.  Shafts may well be playing a part, but there is almost a full tenth of an inch difference between the two clubheads.  Enormous in the world of vertical CG.

 

 

[KCEE]

10 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

Anyone have decent experience with the Matlby hybrids?

 

Personally, I don't care for hybrids. But never really gave them a fair shot. Have a spot open at the top of the bag, and thinking about tinkering with either a KE4 Tour TC or Tour FDI (both have options in 19*).

 

Would be curious if anyone's hit both and landed on a favorite. 

 

 

I tried both the hybrids and utility and while I really love the Maltby stuff lately I couldn't get either of these to work well for me.  I still have a Callaway Rogue hybrid and the KE4 Tour TC just didn't work as well.  I had high hopes as the Tour TC 4w knocked a Mavrik 4w out of my bag.  The FDI utility is very cool, but huge.  It's my issue, but for some reason I struggle with really large irons.  I hit the much smaller Callaway UT club better.