Maltby TS2

[Cwebb]

34 minutes ago, Cameron Circle T said:

And they've gone the other way. Comparing e.g., the RTX6 hosel length to the RTX4, the 6 is much longer than the 4.

 

Yeah, seems that nobody has fully committed to shorter hosel length wedges.  So there's an opportunity here to do something different.  Maltby has been a leader in this design principle, so I'd like to see them do it with a wedge set

Edited June 10 by Cwebb

[ThinkingPlus]

22 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

Yeah, seems that nobody has fully committed to shorter hosel length wedges.  So there's an opportunity to here to do something different.  Maltby has been a leader in this design principle, so I'd like to see them do it with a wedge set

I'm thinking some of the issue surrounds aesthetics and tradition rather than performance.  I can just hear comments like "it isn't a proper wedge" or "really good players don't need a face centered sweetspot" and other nonsense being made.

 

I am almost tempted to go all Frankenstein on a DRT. Grind the heel and toe, take off some bounce, cut the hosel down (or drill out if room), then throw a bunch of mass just behind the toe along the outer edge of the blade. I don't have the tools and would probably make a mess, but conceptually it would fit what I would like.

[runpuddrun]

1 minute ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I'm thinking some of the issue surrounds aesthetics and tradition rather than performance.  I can just hear comments like "it isn't a proper wedge" or "really good players don't need a face centered sweetspot" and other nonsense being made.

 

I am almost tempted to go all Frankenstein on a DRT. Grind the heel and toe, take off some bounce, cut the hosel down (or drill out if room), then throw a bunch of mass just behind the toe along the outer edge of the blade. I don't have the tools and would probably make a mess, but conceptually it would fit what I would like.

maybe i'm weird but not once have I ever looked down at a maltby club and actually noticed the shorter hosels. sure, when building them it's obvious but never has it occurred to me that it's shorter than a "more traditional" club.

[Cwebb]

22 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I'm thinking some of the issue surrounds aesthetics and tradition rather than performance.  I can just hear comments like "it isn't a proper wedge" or "really good players don't need a face centered sweetspot" and other nonsense being made.

 

I am almost tempted to go all Frankenstein on a DRT. Grind the heel and toe, take off some bounce, cut the hosel down (or drill out if room), then throw a bunch of mass just behind the toe along the outer edge of the blade. I don't have the tools and would probably make a mess, but conceptually it would fit what I would like.

 

Since their wedges have heavy raw head weights, you'd probably have enough mass there to work with.  You could also drill port the heel side of the back flange and/or step drill inside the bottom of the hosel bore.

 

Also, if you want to experiment with something else, the Cleveland CBX wedges have a more centered sweet-spot and are more forgiving toe side.  This is in their description...."Weight in the toe with a hollow chamber near the heel makes a better, more balanced Wedge that’s forgiving"

Edited June 10 by Cwebb

[Cwebb]

2 minutes ago, runpuddrun said:

maybe i'm weird but not once have I ever looked down at a maltby club and actually noticed the shorter hosels. sure, when building them it's obvious but never has it occurred to me that it's shorter than a "more traditional" club.

 

Lineup one of your Maltby heads right next to something 'traditional'.  You'll see it

[propman]

32 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

Lineup one of your Maltby heads right next to something 'traditional'.  You'll see it

That's the only way I would notice it. 

Also, don't notice shaft label up or down.

[ThinkingPlus]

2 hours ago, runpuddrun said:

maybe i'm weird but not once have I ever looked down at a maltby club and actually noticed the shorter hosels. sure, when building them it's obvious but never has it occurred to me that it's shorter than a "more traditional" club.

I have never noticed it either nor would I care. I am all about performance. Ugly wins just as well as pretty.

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, propman said:

That's the only way I would notice it. 

Also, don't notice shaft label up or down.

 

I once intentionally installed a shaft with the logo somewhat sideways, not all that close to 90° off the up or down positions, primarily to see if anyone would see it.  And nothing.

 

Didn't bother me at all, either. 

 

[Ger21]

2 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I am almost tempted to go all Frankenstein on a DRT. Grind the heel and toe, take off some bounce,

The guy on Youtube that did this ground into the ceramic core pretty quickly.

[ThinkingPlus]

1 minute ago, Ger21 said:

The guy on Youtube that did this ground into the ceramic core pretty quickly.

Heel or toe or both?

[Cwebb]

3 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I'm thinking some of the issue surrounds aesthetics and tradition rather than performance.  I can just hear comments like "it isn't a proper wedge" or "really good players don't need a face centered sweetspot" and other nonsense being made.

 

I am almost tempted to go all Frankenstein on a DRT. Grind the heel and toe, take off some bounce, cut the hosel down (or drill out if room), then throw a bunch of mass just behind the toe along the outer edge of the blade. I don't have the tools and would probably make a mess, but conceptually it would fit what I would like.

 

The Max Milled wedges have the shortest wedge hosel in the Maltby lineup at 2.675" vs the DRT at 2.938" and the TSW at 2.979".  It would be interesting to know what the COG location comparisons are with these. 

 

With the Max Milled, you could step drill weight out of the bottom of the hosel and then replace some of that mass towards the toe with their heaviest screw in weights.   Could also cut about 3/16" off the top of the hosel.

[Ger21]

2 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Heel or toe or both?

Heel.

 

Edited June 10 by Ger21

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, Ger21 said:

Heel.

 

Looks like grinding on DRTs is a non-starter...

[Cwebb]

31 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Looks like grinding on DRTs is a non-starter...

 

Also looks like the "Ceramic Matrix Composite" didn't work for what they intended it for.  

 

Not sure why they would go to that, before simply using a shorter hosel?

Edited June 11 by Cwebb

[ThinkingPlus]

20 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

Also looks like the "Ceramic Matrix Composite" didn't work for what they intended it for.  

 

Not sure why they would go to that, before simply using a shorter hosel?

If the ceramic was meant to help optimally place CG, then BBOF (Big Bag of Fail).

[Cwebb]

8 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

If the ceramic was meant to help optimally place CG, then BBOF (Big Bag of Fail).

 

From their description...."The DRT wedges are co-forged forged from soft 1025 carbon steel and CMC (Ceramic Matrix Composite) for an incredibly soft feel and optimal center of gravity locations not typically found in wedge designs. The CMC is a very light material that when positioned correctly helps to move mass towards the center of the club face and greatly eliminates typical design shape restrictions due to excessive weight."

[Ger21]

6 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

The CMC is a very light material that when positioned correctly helps to move mass towards the center of the club face and greatly eliminates typical design shape restrictions due to excessive weight."

Maybe they are using it to move the weight higher up the face, rather than toe side?

[Cwebb]

6 minutes ago, Ger21 said:

Maybe they are using it to move the weight higher up the face, rather than toe side?

 

They do state this....."Progressive vertical weighting positions cg lower in low lofted options and higher in high lofted options to aid in controlling trajectory and spin for each loft."

 

Would be odd for them to neglect the horizontal aspect of it or what they call "C-dimension", since they prioritize it for their irons more than any manufacturer.

[NRJyzr]

18 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

The CMC is a very light material that when positioned correctly helps to move mass towards the center of the club face 

 

 

Explains why it's visible in the heel of the home ground clubhead...

 

Edited June 11 by NRJyzr

[Cwebb]

1 minute ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Explains why it's visible in the heel coffee the home ground clubhead...

 

 

Yeah, but based on testing, it didn't get the COG (sweet-spot) centered

[ThinkingPlus]

23 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

Yeah, but based on testing, it didn't get the COG (sweet-spot) centered

Maybe it's all in my head, but the heel side strikes sure feel more solid and fly further. It would be nice if Golfworks would publish the CG values.

[NRJyzr]

30 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

Yeah, but based on testing, it didn't get the COG (sweet-spot) centered

 

That whole reality thing getting in the way of idle speculation. 😁

 

[Cwebb]

36 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Maybe it's all in my head, but the heel side strikes sure feel more solid and fly further. It would be nice if Golfworks would publish the CG values.

 

It's a real thing.  The main reason I started preferring iron set gap wedges, was because the sweet-spot was in the same spot as the rest of the irons.  

[Cwebb]

39 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

That whole reality thing getting in the way of idle speculation. 😁

 

 

The other aspect when they focus on and publish their iron measurements, is that it holds it to a higher standard of actually hitting what the intended target was.

 

It would be good to see detailed published measurements happen for wedges.  Sole grind, effective bounce, and head shape, are not the only important details

Edited June 11 by Cwebb

[mattsaks]

2 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Looks like grinding on DRTs is a non-starter...

I won't take any more off then...

[ThinkingPlus]

3 minutes ago, mattsaks said:

I won't take any more off then...

You did a great job! I would be taking a lot of bounce along with heel/toe relief. Hopefully yours stays structurally sound.

[mattsaks]

32 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You did a great job! I would be taking a lot of bounce along with heel/toe relief. Hopefully yours stays structurally sound.

I'm still not loving it compared to the tsw. The talk of horizontal cog being different may be why.

 

The next step will be a tsw with front relief to stop digging... 

Edited June 11 by mattsaks

[Cwebb]

3 hours ago, mattsaks said:

I'm still not loving it compared to the tsw. The talk of horizontal cog being different may be why.

 

The next step will be a tsw with front relief to stop digging... 

 

There's nothing about the design and shape of the TSW wedges that would suggest that they have a centered COG (sweet-spot).  Long hosel and no manipulation of mass on the back of the head to move the COG out into center.

 

Look at the Max Milled wedge design to see something that definitely has the COG further out into the face.  Shorter hosel, mass removed from the back of the heel, and weight ports towards the toe.  In my opinion it would be enhanced further, if the hosel was shortened more to about that of their TS iron line

[Klubster]

This post from the Maltby forum addresses the COG on wedges and how little we can actually move it on those heads.

https://ralphmaltby.com/questions/question/balance-point-on-a-wedge-head-is-this-the-true-sweetspot/

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, Klubster said:

This post from the Maltby forum addresses the COG on wedges and how little we can actually move it on those heads.

https://ralphmaltby.com/questions/question/balance-point-on-a-wedge-head-is-this-the-true-sweetspot/

 

Yes, it has less influence with the higher lofts.  That doesn't mean it has no influence.

 

If they truly believed that it made no significant difference, then they wouldn't be designing and marketing any of their wedges with these kinds of things...

 

"The CMC is a very light material that when positioned correctly helps to move mass towards the center of the club face and greatly eliminates typical design shape restrictions due to excessive weight."

 

"Optimal Mass Placement (OMP) provides stability and improved shots struck towards the toe, a common miss hit on chips and pitches"