Maltby TS2

[jfrank]

On 2/22/2023 at 1:34 PM, NRJyzr said:

 

Various evidence suggests the hollow clubheads produce less spin than the classic CBs that lack the face flexing to produce speed.  My guess is your spin issues are due to this.

 

I agree with this concept.  I got on the Trackman last month and went through the whole bag.  I'm playing the TM SIM irons with KBS 85g R shafts.  I was hitting the 7 iron with a 1.37-1.43 smash factor (solid) and only getting 4300-5300rpm spin.  They were all draws, not cuts.  Swing speed was consistently 87-89mph.  Carry distance was 177-193 yards.  I hit a 6 iron with 1.48 smash factor, 132mph ball speed, 202yd carry, 5yd draw, and only 4,272rpm Spin. 

 

The Ultra Game Improvement irons with the flexible faces, speed slot, speed frame are always lower spin and almost like catching a flyer even from the fairway if you hit it anywhere near pure without a cut.  I know the lofts are jacked at least one club, but it's the lack of spin that really makes a difference in the flight consistency. 

 

It's the same design principles that are changing the driver approach.  The new heads are designed to create such low spin that all the pros are moving to a fade or small cut because a draw is too low spin with the woods.  In the UGI irons, the designers jack the lofts down, bottom out the COG, huge offsets, spring maraging faces, soft tip shafts, etc. to get the launch without the loft and prevent a slice/fade.  If you utilize forward shaft lean, don't hit the ball thin, and utilize a draw-biased swing, you can get some knucklers even in the 5-9irons.

 

I hit the new King Tour and Aerojet yesterday in the Cobra booth at the Honda Classic.  The King Tour 9i & PW feel was great with a $Taper 120 S, but they are now priced up there with the Pings.  The King Tour has some resemblance to the TS3, so I'm looking forward to trying out the TS3 after my shaft fitting - trying the MODUS3 105 S against some of the KBS offerings.

Edited February 24, 2023 by jfrank

[BogeyParBogey]

14 hours ago, azgreg said:

 

Here's all Britt has said at Golfwork's forum:

 

 

When the TE+ / DBM+ were on the Golfworks site previously they were $50.  If anyone wants that head and to save money get the current ones now.

 

Dave

[NRJyzr]

17 minutes ago, jfrank said:

I agree with this concept.  I got on the Trackman last month and went through the whole bag.  I'm playing the TM SIM irons with KBS 85g R shafts.  I was hitting the 7 iron with a 1.37-1.43 smash factor (solid) and only getting 4300-5300rpm spin.  They were all draws, not cuts.  Swing speed was consistently 87-89mph.  Carry distance was 177-193 yards.  The Ultra Game Improvement irons with the flexible faces, speed slot, speed frame are always lower spin and almost like catching a flyer even from the fairway if you hit it anywhere near pure.  I've hit some 160 yard pitching wedges - yes, I know the lofts are jacked at least one club, but it's the lack of spin that really makes a difference in the flight consistency.

 

I hit the new King Tour and Aerojet yesterday in the Cobra booth at the Honda Classic.  King Tour feel was great with a $Taper 120 S, but they are now priced up there with the Pings.  The King Tour has some resemblance to the TS3, so I'm looking forward to trying out the TS3 after my shaft fitting - trying the MODUS3 105 S against some of the KBS offerings.

 

This is why I can't bring myself to play something like the TS1 or TS2 across a full set, instead use them as long iron replacements at most.  Conceptually, the design implies increased variability to me.  I can live with it at the long end, drivers/fairways/hybrids/long irons, but not in mid and short irons.  <shrug>

 

[wantacigar]

41 minutes ago, jfrank said:

I agree with this concept.  I got on the Trackman last month and went through the whole bag.  I'm playing the TM SIM irons with KBS 85g R shafts.  I was hitting the 7 iron with a 1.37-1.43 smash factor (solid) and only getting 4300-5300rpm spin.  They were all draws, not cuts.  Swing speed was consistently 87-89mph.  Carry distance was 177-193 yards.  The Ultra Game Improvement irons with the flexible faces, speed slot, speed frame are always lower spin and almost like catching a flyer even from the fairway if you hit it anywhere near pure.  I've hit some 160 yard pitching wedges - yes, I know the lofts are jacked at least one club, but it's the lack of spin that really makes a difference in the flight consistency.

 

I hit the new King Tour and Aerojet yesterday in the Cobra booth at the Honda Classic.  King Tour feel was great with a $Taper 120 S, but they are now priced up there with the Pings.  The King Tour has some resemblance to the TS3, so I'm looking forward to trying out the TS3 after my shaft fitting - trying the MODUS3 105 S against some of the KBS offerings.

I don't know why I don't get the distances off the TM.  I've been gaming the Sim2 irons since spring 2021 with the KBS 85 Max S flex.  My driver SS is around 93-96 and carry 225-240.  Did a launch monitor on my 7i at PGASS and got ball speeds 112-116 with distances of 160 yds.  On course I get 150-155.  It's driving me crazy.  Point of reference I'm 56 somewhat portly with bad knees.  I've considered going to to the KE4 Max with the Score R flex but not sure it will make a difference.  

[GolfinEngineer]

2 hours ago, jfrank said:

Were all of these clubs setup with the same shaft and same playing length (TE maybe 1/2" longer)?  Impressive dispersion from the TE with a longer shaft.

They are different shafts but I plan to swap them around and repeat. They are all the same length but the TE is the 6i(31*) so 1 degree stronger then the others. 

[jfrank]

1 hour ago, wantacigar said:

I don't know why I don't get the distances off the TM.  I've been gaming the Sim2 irons since spring 2021 with the KBS 85 Max S flex.  My driver SS is around 93-96 and carry 225-240.  Did a launch monitor on my 7i at PGASS and got ball speeds 112-116 with distances of 160 yds.  On course I get 150-155.  It's driving me crazy.  Point of reference I'm 56 somewhat portly with bad knees.  I've considered going to to the KE4 Max with the Score R flex but not sure it will make a difference.  

Might want to go with a graphite shaft to see if you can get more distance and tighter dispersion.  My swing transition favors a little more weight and I compress the ball with a negative AOA, whereas you are probably a scooper.  The KE4Max would likely give more consistent flight and spin than the SIM2 (from my experience with the SIM line).

For the cost of the KE4Max head, I think it's worth buying one to test with some shafts and compare to your current SIM2 - 7i setup.

These are very affordable:

https://www.golfworks.com/rapport-core-blue-graphite-iron-shafts/p/va0007/

The nice thing about the KE4Max is you could easily add a little weight via the screw port to get the SW up even if you decide to go with the 70-75g R flex shaft.  

 

[SE Gamer]

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

This is why I can't bring myself to play something like the TS1 or TS2 across a full set, instead use them as long iron replacements at most.  Conceptually, the design implies increased variability to me.  I can live with it at the long end, drivers/fairways/hybrids/long irons, but not in mid and short irons.  <shrug>

 

 

Well, I'll let you know if this is the reality. As mentioned, have played blades for over a decade. Switched to PD irons for this upcoming season (Rogue ST Pro). I've spent a bunch of time over the winter hitting them on the home LM. And spent all of last season testing a TS1 7 iron at home and on the course. Personally haven't seen any massive dispersion issues in a N to S orientation. 

I don't know that these designs are inherently increasing variability. Just that they're more forgiving, so the poorly struck shots turn out better than a flushed shot. I think this is what largely is happening when people talk about "hot spots" on irons. Which I've personally found to be a myth. If it were a thing, I doubt that players at the highest levels would be using them (i.e. look at the most popular irons on the LPGA tour). If players were just randomly getting balls flying 10-15 yards long, they wouldn't be bagging those clubs for long.

[NRJyzr]

54 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

I don't know that these designs are inherently increasing variability. Just that they're more forgiving, so the poorly struck shots turn out better than a flushed shot. I think this is what largely is happening when people talk about "hot spots" on irons. Which I've personally found to be a myth.

 

It's a real thing, but it's an aspect of the earlier mentioned fliers (I think it was Popeye who brought it up), not an actual "hot spot."  It happens when one's spin profile is at the point that the reduction in spin from hitting above the CG results in the creation of a flier.  Albeit one without the lie that usually produces it.

 

Fellow WRXer Bladehunter has spoken of seeing this with the Ping i500.  I reference him because he's a pretty low hdcp, it's not like a guy who's hitting the CG once every 15 shots.  In fact, on 3i or 4i tee shots, he's talked of intentionally replicating it to produce something extra.  Kind of his version of Spinal Tap's turning it to 11.

 

[mustang]

3 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

It's a real thing, but it's an aspect of the earlier mentioned fliers (I think it was Popeye who brought it up), not an actual "hot spot."  It happens when one's spin profile is at the point that the reduction in spin from hitting above the CG results in the creation of a flier.  Albeit one without the lie that usually produces it.

 

Fellow WRXer Bladehunter has spoken of seeing this with the Ping i500.  I reference him because he's a pretty low hdcp, it's not like a guy who's hitting the CG once every 15 shots.  In fact, on 3i or 4i tee shots, he's talked of intentionally replicating it to produce something extra.  Kind of his version of Spinal Tap's turning it to 11.

 

Ed- I agree with the occasional HOT ONE.   I have had a few that really jumped.   Only when I was hitting more solid shots and then the outlier would show up.   Struggling to hit things more consistently lately has removed that for me.   I do have a set of TS-3 5-GW in RT 95 Regular Flex waiting for the weather to improve!    Very curious to see how I do with the #5 and #6 irons.    

[Popeye64]

The concept of hitting a 'hot one' is definitely a myth. More times than not a high handicapper strikes a ball poorly. When he flushes one 10 yards further they think it was a Hot One. Fliers can happen out of the rough when a lot of grass is between the club and the ball producing less spin. It goes further. 

An off center ball will not perform like a center strike. Though the engineers really try to stretch that sweet spot. 

If you put all of these irons on a robot the performance would be near identical for all of them. We are the variable in a golf swing. 

[SE Gamer]

23 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

It's a real thing, but it's an aspect of the earlier mentioned fliers (I think it was Popeye who brought it up), not an actual "hot spot."  It happens when one's spin profile is at the point that the reduction in spin from hitting above the CG results in the creation of a flier.  Albeit one without the lie that usually produces it.

 

Fellow WRXer Bladehunter has spoken of seeing this with the Ping i500.  I reference him because he's a pretty low hdcp, it's not like a guy who's hitting the CG once every 15 shots.  In fact, on 3i or 4i tee shots, he's talked of intentionally replicating it to produce something extra.  Kind of his version of Spinal Tap's turning it to 11.

 

 

Yeah, I don't discount fliers. But I also don't find that phenomena is something wholly unique to PD/GI/SGI clubs. The example you give is something very similar that I'd experienced with the set of blades I retired. A stock 4i for me was a 210-ish for me. But I could put a slightly different swing on it to get a nice low draw that'd be good for more in the neighborhood of 240. 

I don't discount that there may be some outlier heads that are crazy variable based on strike location. But that'd be the exception. And any dispersion differences are far more likely the indian or environment (fliers, slightly different launch angles, etc.), not the arrow.

[iamlowsound]

20 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

If you're a 5, you likely are a good enough iron player. But I think your observation should be much more prevalent. It seems like the common thought is to play the most demanding irons/shaft/etc. you can manage. But that really makes little sense. Instead, maybe you should play the most forgiving head, softest shaft, etc that you can manage. 

Game improvement type irons aren't going to suddenly turn an 18 hdcp into scratch. But they very well may take a 5 hdcp to scratch. As I really think the people that have the most to gain from PD/GI type irons is your mid-low single digit players. Guys that strike the ball fairly consistently. Don't have massive misses. But would really benefit from the slight misses being far less punishing than blades.

 

I'm going to test this idea this year. Play to around scratch. Have played blades for 15+ years. Went with a PD set and highly suspect they'll be nothing but upside. 

The biggest difference for better players will be distance control and typically hollow PD or GI irons don't have the distance control that a CB or a MB will have. The TS3 is rated as a super game improvement by MPF but you'd see the same distance control that you would with a much more punishing iron from another manufacturer. That being said, the longer blade length does make it harder to work the ball but the distance control and forgiveness should be as high as possible. 

[iamlowsound]

20 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

and not coincidentally, the TS1 have a lower AVCOG than most hollow iron designs

The spin is the reason I went with the TS1 over the TS2. Well I like the look a lot more too but the spin helps my game more than the added forgiveness of the TS2. 

[iamlowsound]

13 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

Only a handful of shots so far but a lot of chipping. No surprises, they are doing just what they should. Short little chips feel really solid. They transmit a good amount of feeling and feedback. 

I believe the TS-1 PW and GW are solid as well. 

I'm not usually a fan of set wedges after PW (which I play like a 10 iron and not a wedge) but the TS1 GW is incredible, I have zero desire to bag a speciality wedge there now. 

[Colej]

Ok here’s the TS2 and TS3 both 7 iron heads. In the photos of both heads I’ve tried to keep the TS2 on the left. Also to note the TS3 says forged on the shorter hosel. My TS2 has more wear on it as well. 
 

 

[iamlowsound]

6 hours ago, jfrank said:

Might want to go with a graphite shaft to see if you can get more distance and tighter dispersion.  My swing transition favors a little more weight and I compress the ball with a negative AOA, whereas you are probably a scooper.  The KE4Max would likely give more consistent flight and spin than the SIM2 (from my experience with the SIM line).

For the cost of the KE4Max head, I think it's worth buying one to test with some shafts and compare to your current SIM2 - 7i setup.

These are very affordable:

https://www.golfworks.com/rapport-core-blue-graphite-iron-shafts/p/va0007/

The nice thing about the KE4Max is you could easily add a little weight via the screw port to get the SW up even if you decide to go with the 70-75g R flex shaft.  

 

I'd say check out the Maltby MPF shafts too. I have one in my driving iron and it's probably my favourite shaft in my bag. Feels super smooth like a Tensai Blue at a fraction of the cost. I'm planning on picking up one of the ultra light ones and sticking it in my driver just to see what happens. TXG did a cool video in December where they put Matty in a super light shaft and he added 5mph clubhead speed without even trying. The Maltby is cheap enough to do an experiment like that just for the heck of it. 

[SE Gamer]

9 minutes ago, iamlowsound said:

I'd say check out the Maltby MPF shafts too. I have one in my driving iron and it's probably my favourite shaft in my bag. Feels super smooth like a Tensai Blue at a fraction of the cost. I'm planning on picking up one of the ultra light ones and sticking it in my driver just to see what happens. TXG did a cool video in December where they put Matty in a super light shaft and he added 5mph clubhead speed without even trying. The Maltby is cheap enough to do an experiment like that just for the heck of it. 

 

Been thinking about trying an MPF shaft as well (UL A Flex). Kind of a poor man's auto flex project. Pretty low risk to try it out when the MPF shafts are priced so well. 

[Therty]

1 hour ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Been thinking about trying an MPF shaft as well (UL A Flex). Kind of a poor man's auto flex project. Pretty low risk to try it out when the MPF shafts are priced so well. 

Aldila Nvs 55 L pink 😉 super low torque (4*) for a light and flexible shaft. Sameish price.

[jblough99]

@Popeye64 The TS3 has me intrigued.  How would you say it compares to something like the Ping I210 / I230 from a performance/forgiveness standpoint?

[Therty]

5 minutes ago, jblough99 said:

@Popeye64 The TS3 has me intrigued.  How would you say it compares to something like the Ping I210 / I230 from a performance/forgiveness standpoint?

Same universe I would say. i230 has a bit more bounce, but definitely similar ideas. i230 higher cg by quite a bit.

 

fwiw When I tested the i230 I LOVED it.

[Cwebb]

6 minutes ago, Therty said:

Same universe I would say. i230 has a bit more bounce, but definitely similar ideas. i230 higher cg by quite a bit.

 

fwiw When I tested the i230 I LOVED it.

 

Are there some irons that are in a different universe? 😉

[Cwebb]

7 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

It's a real thing, but it's an aspect of the earlier mentioned fliers (I think it was Popeye who brought it up), not an actual "hot spot."  It happens when one's spin profile is at the point that the reduction in spin from hitting above the CG results in the creation of a flier.  Albeit one without the lie that usually produces it.

 

Fellow WRXer Bladehunter has spoken of seeing this with the Ping i500.  I reference him because he's a pretty low hdcp, it's not like a guy who's hitting the CG once every 15 shots.  In fact, on 3i or 4i tee shots, he's talked of intentionally replicating it to produce something extra.  Kind of his version of Spinal Tap's turning it to 11.

 

 

The difference with a higher COG hollow active face iron, is that the higher your impact on the face, the further it will tend to go.  This really comes into play if the ball is on any kind of "up" lie condition, whether in fluffy grass, on a tee, etc

 

This is a contrast vs a lower to mid COG solid face design.  They don't tend to go further with an impact up on the face, where the AVCOG has arrived further under the center of the ball than is required for pure contact.

[Popeye64]

37 minutes ago, jblough99 said:

@Popeye64 The TS3 has me intrigued.  How would you say it compares to something like the Ping I210 / I230 from a performance/forgiveness standpoint?

Those two irons should match up very well. Very close in loft and overall size. I believe the Ping may have a bit more offset. From what I remember the i210 does not have as soft a feel as the TS3. It's been about 6 months since I've hit those. Both are in that Players cavity role with some extra forgiveness sprinkled in. 

[jblough99]

3 minutes ago, Popeye64 said:

Those two irons should match up very well. Very close in loft and overall size. I believe the Ping may have a bit more offset. From what I remember the i210 does not have as soft a feel as the TS3. It's been about 6 months since I've hit those. Both are in that Players cavity role with some extra forgiveness sprinkled in. 

Appreciate the response.  I’ve played a set of DBM heads in the past, great heads but spun and launched too high for me.  Played a set of I210’s next which helped the launch/spin issue but missed the forged feel.  Sounds like the TS3 might have the best of both worlds.

[bellairemi]

I have had a TS3 7 iron in the indoor range for a few sessions now.  The TE was my favorite Maltby iron (the low COG was great for me) but I eventually moved away from them mostly because of looks.  I really wanted more offset in the 5 and 6 irons with maybe a thicker topline.  The higher irons just seemed too elongated to me as well.  The TS3 being a more progressive set would seem to be a better fit for my eye.

 

Unfortunately, and this is only from a mat indoors (albeit the same type TXG uses for fittings), I just do not like the TS3 sole design.  The TE sole always worked great for me - I have a steep angle of attack but do not take big divots and the TE took a nice slim divot.  I can feel the TS3 "stick" in the mat just as I do with my KE4Max 7 iron.  Pick up my Ping Eye 2+, make a very similar swing and no mat issues.  I will know better come April when we can hit off turf but thinking the TS3 will not work for me.

 

 

 

[SE Gamer]

2 hours ago, Therty said:

Aldila Nvs 55 L pink 😉 super low torque (4*) for a light and flexible shaft. Sameish price.

 

Yeah, but the A flex MPF is at least 10 grams lighter, the NVS. Plus the Maltby is a stock offering in their standard paks. 

I'm also starting to care less about torque values these days. It can be an indicator, but if the shaft works, the shaft works. Case in point. My Rombax 6w06 X from my old driver has a lower torque value than the TM Ventus Blue S in my new driver. And if anything, I'm getting tighter dispersion with the new driver. Granted it's different heads and everything. Short story, I've played a bunch of shafts over the years with torque values all over the map. And I've pretty much driven the ball the same for the past 15-20 years. 

[gioreeko]

2 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

Those two irons should match up very well. Very close in loft and overall size. I believe the Ping may have a bit more offset. From what I remember the i210 does not have as soft a feel as the TS3. It's been about 6 months since I've hit those. Both are in that Players cavity role with some extra forgiveness sprinkled in. 

do you have any idea why Golfworks stopped carrying Xcaliber shafts?

[Cwebb]

7 minutes ago, gioreeko said:

do you have any idea why Golfworks stopped carrying Xcaliber shafts?

 

In short, the owner had too many issues going on and communication became very difficult.  Golfworks was patient, but then decided to move on

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, bellairemi said:

I have had a TS3 7 iron in the indoor range for a few sessions now.  The TE was my favorite Maltby iron (the low COG was great for me) but I eventually moved away from them mostly because of looks.  I really wanted more offset in the 5 and 6 irons with maybe a thicker topline.  The higher irons just seemed too elongated to me as well.  The TS3 being a more progressive set would seem to be a better fit for my eye.

 

Unfortunately, and this is only from a mat indoors (albeit the same type TXG uses for fittings), I just do not like the TS3 sole design.  The TE sole always worked great for me - I have a steep angle of attack but do not take big divots and the TE took a nice slim divot.  I can feel the TS3 "stick" in the mat just as I do with my KE4Max 7 iron.  Pick up my Ping Eye 2+, make a very similar swing and no mat issues.  I will know better come April when we can hit off turf but thinking the TS3 will not work for me.

 

 

 

If there was only a couple minor details in the looks that were not perfect for you

I'd still consider going back to the TE or the DBM, which is the same design but with a much more durable finish.  That very low COG that fits you well, is not easy to match or find.

[Therty]

10 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Yeah, but the A flex MPF is at least 10 grams lighter, the NVS. Plus the Maltby is a stock offering in their standard paks. 

I'm also starting to care less about torque values these days. It can be an indicator, but if the shaft works, the shaft works. Case in point. My Rombax 6w06 X from my old driver has a lower torque value than the TM Ventus Blue S in my new driver. And if anything, I'm getting tighter dispersion with the new driver. Granted it's different heads and everything. Short story, I've played a bunch of shafts over the years with torque values all over the map. And I've pretty much driven the ball the same for the past 15-20 years. 

I had a lot of fun with the Graffaloy ProLaunch Blue 45, also.