Maltby TS2

[NRJyzr]

53 minutes ago, Popeye64 said:

So out on the course today. Played the front nine with all TS3. 

On the back nine I'm dropping two balls at 7 iron length on nearly every hole. The KE4 Max is more than holding its own. With the 2° stronger loft its playing exactly that. About a half club longer. But.. its a straighter ball flight. It hits and releases a foot. So it's spinning a little less. The TS3 is hitting and backing up slightly. 

Early results are way way too close to tell. Sure the TS3 feels like a more solid iron. But damn the KE4 Max is just doing work. 

 

I have a mildly baked theory about MOI and its effect on ballflight, and I'll take what you're seeing as helping to pad the evidence in favor of that truly exciting theory.  LOL

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by NRJyzr

[Cwebb]

56 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

I have a mildly baked theory about MOI and its effect on ballflight, and I'll take what you're seeing as helping to pad the evidence in favor of that truly exciting theory.  LOL

 

 

Well if you tease at a theory, you gotta give us some idea 😉

[NRJyzr]

1 minute ago, Cwebb said:

 

Well if you tease at a theory, you gotta give us some idea 😉

 

Fair point.  🙂

 

It's essentially nothing more than, the higher the MOI, the straighter the ball flight.  

 

As for where that comes from, it's a combination of little things.  Like Nick Faldo and his take on the Eye2, he said he couldn't play them because they fly too straight.  Or, pro after pro talking about how  straight their driver is, while pro after pro also talks about how they use their fairway woods when they need to move the ball laterally.  Which contradicts what we older folks were always taught, when drivers were much smaller (3 woods are easier to hit straight because of the higher loft).

 

Things like that.  🙂

 

[Cwebb]

5 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Fair point.  🙂

 

It's essentially nothing more than, the higher the MOI, the straighter the ball flight.  

 

As for where that comes from, it's a combination of little things.  Like Nick Faldo and his take on the Eye2, he said he couldn't play them because they fly too straight.  Or, pro after pro talking about how  straight their driver is, while pro after pro also talks about how they use their fairway woods when they need to move the ball laterally.  Which contradicts what we older folks were always taught, when drivers were much smaller (3 woods are easier to hit straight because of the higher loft).

 

Things like that.  🙂

 

 

I think it's "C-dimension" or horizontal COG, which can correlate with higher MOI.  The KE4 Max has one of the longest COG's that we have seen.  Another KE4 design, the Tour+ is very much like this as well. 

 

The further out from hosel the COG is, the more "stable" the head is in rotation,...making it more difficult for a talented player like Faldo, to manipulate the face during a swing.  The Ping Eye designs had the longest COG and highest MOI that any of the players from that era had ever tried.  Of course bigger driver heads had an increase in both as well

[NRJyzr]

22 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

 

I think it's "C-dimension" or horizontal COG, which can correlate with higher MOI.  The KE4 Max has one of the longest COG's that we have seen.  Another KE4 design, the Tour+ is very much like this as well. 

 

The further out from hosel the COG is, the more "stable" the head is in rotation,...making it more difficult for a talented player like Faldo, to manipulate the face during a swing.  The Ping Eye designs had the longest COG and highest MOI that any of the players from that era had ever tried.  Of course bigger driver heads had an increase in both as well

 

It would be interesting to see a test looking at those different aspects.  

 

Which will bloody well never happen.  LOL

 

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, NRJyzr said:

 

It would be interesting to see a test looking at those different aspects.  

 

Which will bloody well never happen.  LOL

 

 

It really would.   Fortunately we can all do our own tests to find what iron design details help, since the measurements are published

[Spinozist]

edit: link already given

Edited March 30, 2023 by Spinozist
see post

[Popeye64]

4 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

 

Thanks for sharing! Given the price difference, the KE4 Max seems like an outstanding option. 

I had a fairly long post disapear so here goes again. 

First off the KE4 Max is an excellent choice for darn near any golfer. It has some short comings in the finish department, but that can be over looked. Not enough is being said about the adjustability with the toe weights. 

After digesting todays on course play the two designs were readily apparent. The KE4 with its .783 and the TS3 with its .691 play just as they read. The TS3 with its low CG will spin more than the KE4. It was evident in the ball flights as the TS3 would leak out right and keep going. The KE4 would leak a bit but still hunt the flag. Both balls would find the green though. The lower CG effects back spin as well as side spin. 

I can hit back to back shots with very close swing speed  and Tempo. So back to back shots can be very telling. 

On the green how the TS3 wants to back up while the KE4 wants to release, KE4 about a foot, TS3 just behind the ball mark. That was extremely consistent. I do need more outside time with the TS3 as face angle manipulation can play a big part in spin for me. 

The KE4 is still a point and fire club for me. It remains to be seen if the TS3 can knock them out. It may be a tall task. 

On the front side I did have some truly amazing shots with the TS3. So when I was doing me back to back Testing I was fairly surprised at the continued out come. 

[omegafett]

TS1 IM page just posted: https://www.golfworks.com/maltby-ts1-im-iron/p/ma0344/

[SE Gamer]

53 minutes ago, omegafett said:

TS1 IM page just posted: https://www.golfworks.com/maltby-ts1-im-iron/p/ma0344/

Came to post this lol.

 

Gonna shoot GW an email and see if they can build me one for pickup as soon as they're available. 

[AKA_Double J]

I enjoy reading up on the latest Maltby releases, but I still like my TS1/TS2 combo set so well that I really don't have any intention of trying anything else. That being said, if the TS1 IM were to be released in a DBM finish like in the rendering I would have no choice!  The TS1 IM is a fantastic looking piece as is though, especially knowing first hand that the Maltby irons look much better in person than they do on their website.

[Lobsterzilla]

Quote

They are shipping this week.  ETA at The Golfworks should be between May 22nd and May 30th.  Could be a few days before, or after.  Price will be $59.99 per head, so more expensive than the TS-1’s.  Cost increases in development, materials, manufacturing and tooling are the main reasons.

Britt Lindsey

 

 

 

he posted that today on the ralphmaltby forum, in regards to the ts1-im... does that mean these paks are an oops or just preorders?

 

will be interesting to see how the perform with a $70 difference between the im's and the takomo 101's with "better" shafts.

[Lobsterzilla]

2 hours ago, AKA_Double J said:

I enjoy reading up on the latest Maltby releases, but I still like my TS1/TS2 combo set so well that I really don't have any intention of trying anything else. That being said, if the TS1 IM were to be released in a DBM finish like in the rendering I would have no choice!  The TS1 IM is a fantastic looking piece as is though, especially knowing first hand that the Maltby irons look much better in person than they do on their website.

Britt said on the forums that the 2pc design doesn't allow for the dbm finish unfortunately. That's just a casting mock up it looks like. They said possibly new dbm wedges in 2024

[Gdashoff]

So why do companies not make "silent" golf carry bag to help with club chatter?  I know Ogio, bennington and a couple others make a cart bag but those are so damn heavy unless you live on the course with a cart.  Do the main manufacturers like chatter so people replace irons faster?

[djcalied]

Feel like I've been waiting years for these TS1-im's to drop lol. Will most likely call in to pre-order if possible and i'll share photos and thoughts once i've got them eventually.

 

Wonder if a DBM finish could be done by a local shop on these hmm...

[Gdashoff]

33 minutes ago, djcalied said:

Feel like I've been waiting years for these TS1-im's to drop lol. Will most likely call in to pre-order if possible and i'll share photos and thoughts once i've got them eventually.

 

Wonder if a DBM finish could be done by a local shop on these hmm...

 

The diamonized carbon coating is a very high heat process done at the forge from my understanding and would destroy the foam inside.  When I read about cobras similar process they said there was only one forge in China that could do it.  It seemed like GW stopped making DCC models once Cobra released theirs.  My guess was that cobra was taking most of that DC capacity.

[djcalied]

3 hours ago, Gdashoff said:

 

The diamonized carbon coating is a very high heat process done at the forge from my understanding and would destroy the foam inside.  When I read about cobras similar process they said there was only one forge in China that could do it.  It seemed like GW stopped making DCC models once Cobra released theirs.  My guess was that cobra was taking most of that DC capacity.

 

 

Very high heat? Definitely not. More than one way to do the DBM which is more commonly called DLC (diamond-like-coating) in other industries, but typical temps are 150-220C (approx 395F).

 

That is not very high heat. I work in the plastics industry and there's plenty of polymers out there that would not be effected by that heat. Just depends on the foam polymer used by golfworks.

 

Assuming the same foam polymer was used i'd be willing to give it a go with a TS2 4i that I have, I could probably request the process be done at the low end of the temp range- would effect durability though. I should ask Britt if its the same foam beforehand i guess lol.

Edited March 30, 2023 by djcalied

[pjc]

5 hours ago, Lobsterzilla said:

 

 

 

he posted that today on the ralphmaltby forum, in regards to the ts1-im... does that mean these paks are an oops or just preorders?

 

will be interesting to see how the perform with a $70 difference between the im's and the takomo 101's with "better" shafts.

GW has any shaft available, any!!  And they will custom build for free most times, maybe $10.  You can build to length, lie, swing weight any specs you want.  How could Takomo do better??!!

[SE Gamer]

40 minutes ago, pjc said:

GW has any shaft available, any!!  And they will custom build for free most times, maybe $10.  You can build to length, lie, swing weight any specs you want.  How could Takomo do better??!!

 

True story. And, saying Takomo's shaft is better is subjective. Although I think that was what the point of the quotes was around "better". Dollar for dollar, the TT Score shaft may be the best shaft out there. 

[Popeye64]

8 hours ago, Gdashoff said:

So why do companies not make "silent" golf carry bag to help with club chatter?  I know Ogio, bennington and a couple others make a cart bag but those are so damn heavy unless you live on the course with a cart.  Do the main manufacturers like chatter so people replace irons faster?

It's taboo in many settings but the neoprene head covers keep irons like brand new. I've only seen cart bags that have dividers that the heads nestle into.  And yes those bags tend to be monstrous and heavy. 

[Gdashoff]

5 hours ago, djcalied said:

 

 

Very high heat? Definitely not. More than one way to do the DBM which is more commonly called DLC (diamond-like-coating) in other industries, but typical temps are 150-220C (approx 395F).

 

That is not very high heat. I work in the plastics industry and there's plenty of polymers out there that would not be effected by that heat. Just depends on the foam polymer used by golfworks.

 

Assuming the same foam polymer was used i'd be willing to give it a go with a TS2 4i that I have, I could probably request the process be done at the low end of the temp range- would effect durability though. I should ask Britt if its the same foam beforehand i guess lol.

Gotcha, I just remembered reading a cobra story at the time saying high heat.  Maybe GW uses a different method. Cobra says they use a melonite salt bath which look like they are in the 900-1100F range.

[ode1]

9 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

It's taboo in many settings but the neoprene head covers keep irons like brand new. I've only seen cart bags that have dividers that the heads nestle into.  And yes those bags tend to be monstrous and heavy. 

Headcovers are your friend and one does not need to put them on every iron to stop the chatter.  The issue will be remembering to put them back on after setting bag down and taking cover off and setting cover down.  There are other ways to reduce chatter by strategic placement of a towel.  The chatter sound and look should be outlawed🙃

[ode1]

I always assumed the goo was injected after the finish was applied🤔

[AUswimKC]

3 hours ago, ode said:

I always assumed the goo was injected after the finish was applied🤔

Even if. You’re taking about a 2mm? thick face. Going to warp no matter what 

[marktheblake]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:33 AM, Gdashoff said:

 

The diamonized carbon coating is a very high heat process done at the forge from my understanding and would destroy the foam inside.  When I read about cobras similar process they said there was only one forge in China that could do it.  It seemed like GW stopped making DCC models once Cobra released theirs.  My guess was that cobra was taking most of that DC capacity.

 

I am fairly sure Cobra is not using the same process that Maltby did.       Cobra is doing the old school black oxide treatment that anyone (with skills)  can do at home , and thats why it wears off,  there is a few different ways of doing it, but probably this one https://www.rapiddirect.com/blog/black-oxide-finish-guide/.  The DBM treatment Maltby is using is likely this https://techmetals.com/diamonize/    or thishttps://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/materials-science/diamond-like-carbon-coating and cannot be done at home

 

PXG might be the only other OEM using this Diamond like carbon process, everyone else is doing black oxide, the difference being that the latter wears off, and DLC does not.

Edited April 1, 2023 by marktheblake

[Gdashoff]

1 hour ago, marktheblake said:

 

I am fairly sure Cobra is not using the same process that Maltby did.       Cobra is doing the old school black oxide treatment that anyone (with skills)  can do at home , and thats why it wears off,  there is a few different ways of doing it, but probably this one https://www.rapiddirect.com/blog/black-oxide-finish-guide/.  The DBM treatment Maltby is using is likely this https://techmetals.com/diamonize/    or thishttps://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/materials-science/diamond-like-carbon-coating and cannot be done at home

 

PXG might be the only other OEM using this Diamond like carbon process, everyone else is doing black oxide, the difference being that the latter wears off, and DLC does not.

 

I haven't seen the cobras durability but they sure sound like the Maltby DBM coating.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/cobra-forged-tec--forged-tecx-black-irons--what-you-need-to-know

 

Interestingly cobra can do it on a 2 piece hollow body iron with foam.

[Lobsterzilla]

On 3/30/2023 at 3:23 PM, pjc said:

GW has any shaft available, any!!  And they will custom build for free most times, maybe $10.  You can build to length, lie, swing weight any specs you want.  How could Takomo do better??!!

 

On 3/30/2023 at 4:05 PM, SE Gamer said:

 

True story. And, saying Takomo's shaft is better is subjective. Although I think that was what the point of the quotes was around "better". Dollar for dollar, the TT Score shaft may be the best shaft out there. 

 

I'm more talking about the stock offerings. Especially since Takomo 101's can be bought heads only, the head price difference is $120 less and nothing is stopping you from buying 101's heads only and getting your shafts from golfworks.

 

Hence why I said, I'm very much looking forward to the ts1-im's but it remains to be seen if they're "worth" the higher price tag. That's my only point. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Lobsterzilla

[Rainier88]

I've got a set of KE4 Max coming to me right now, and I'll be using headcovers for them, to keep them nicer, longer. I also hate bag chatter. I'm hoping they will have the point-shoot forgiveness, because I also really wanted the DBM set. Maybe in a year or two, but I figured I should get the most forgiveness I can when buying a new set. I'm also curious to see how they will compare to the STi2 set, as I should get a chance to swing them both.

[ode1]

Headcovers are cool, 431, 17-4 need some love too 👇down with the chatter🙃

[gioreeko]

9 hours ago, Rainier88 said:

I've got a set of KE4 Max coming to me right now, and I'll be using headcovers for them, to keep them nicer, longer. I also hate bag chatter. I'm hoping they will have the point-shoot forgiveness, because I also really wanted the DBM set. Maybe in a year or two, but I figured I should get the most forgiveness I can when buying a new set. I'm also curious to see how they will compare to the STi2 set, as I should get a chance to swing them both.

the sound of bag chatter, along with the sound you used to hear from metal spikes on cement were sounds that were music to my ears.