Maltby TS2

[sm_watts]

This has been mentioned, but something to consider if you're planning on putting some old or pre-cut, used shafts in the TS3's.  The bottom-bore-to-ground measurement on these are oddly small.

 

I got my heads in the mail today and they look great, but new shafts won't be here until Wednesday-ish.  Sooooo, I threw some old DG SL shafts in there just so I can hit them tomorrow.  I don't remember what irons these shafts came out of originally, but I had to soft-step them X2 just to get normal lengths (37.0" for the 7 iron).  We'll see how they feel this way, but my other choice was some old RP Flighted Rifles that I would have had to do the exact same thing.  I guess this will give me something to compare to when my Rapid Tapers get here!

[coreyhr]

35 minutes ago, sm_watts said:

This has been mentioned, but something to consider if you're planning on putting some old or pre-cut, used shafts in the TS3's.  The bottom-bore-to-ground measurement on these are oddly small.

 

I got my heads in the mail today and they look great, but new shafts won't be here until Wednesday-ish.  Sooooo, I threw some old DG SL shafts in there just so I can hit them tomorrow.  I don't remember what irons these shafts came out of originally, but I had to soft-step them X2 just to get normal lengths (37.0" for the 7 iron).  We'll see how they feel this way, but my other choice was some old RP Flighted Rifles that I would have had to do the exact same thing.  I guess this will give me something to compare to when my Rapid Tapers get here!

Good point. The bore depths are very deep on the TS3. I had the same issue initially on some pulls when I started my first build. Ended up buying a new set of S300’s in order to get proper playing length. 

[brew4eagle]

13 minutes ago, coreyhr said:

Good point. The bore depths are very deep on the TS3. I had the same issue initially on some pulls when I started my first build. Ended up buying a new set of S300’s in order to get proper playing length. 

It's more of a short hosel length rather than the bore depth.  I'd say the TS3 bore depth is normal, or even a tad shallow.

[coreyhr]

4 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

It's more of a short hosel length rather than the bore depth.  I'd say the TS3 bore depth is normal, or even a tad shallow.

Gotcha, makes sense. Just knew that it definitely requires more shaft length than a standard iron build.

[ChaosTheory]

You don’t see much talk about the BBGM (bottom of bore to ground measurement) any more.  But if it is less than normal, the iron will play stiffer unless you tip trim less than normal to match the difference.  
 

I suppose with taper tips you would soft step to accomplish the same.  I can’t recall having had to do it with taper tips.

[elsie451]

According to jimy at golfworks, the bbgm of the ts3 is 3/4" with a parallel tip shaft

[sm_watts]

8 hours ago, brew4eagle said:

It's more of a short hosel length rather than the bore depth.  I'd say the TS3 bore depth is normal, or even a tad shallow.

It's a combination of both: bore depth is 1.355", which is as deep as anything I've ever worked on.  Typical is 1.125" or even 1.250".  It doesn't seem like much, but when you combine the short BBTG (again, typical with irons I've worked on is more like 1.250") with another 1/4" deeper bore depth, it adds up to needing about an inch longer shaft than many other sets out there.  Keep in mind, there is no industry standard on any of these measurements, so this is just a reminder to do your homework before you buy a set of shaft pulls.

[sm_watts]

1 hour ago, Snowman9000 said:

  But if it is less than normal, the iron will play stiffer unless you tip trim less than normal to match the difference.  

I don't remember reading this before, can some expert club builders chime in and give the masses a quick tutorial on this?

[coreyhr]

21 minutes ago, sm_watts said:

It's a combination of both: bore depth is 1.355", which is as deep as anything I've ever worked on.  Typical is 1.125" or even 1.250".  It doesn't seem like much, but when you combine the short BBTG (again, typical with irons I've worked on is more like 1.250") with another 1/4" deeper bore depth, it adds up to needing about an inch longer shaft than many other sets out there.  Keep in mind, there is no industry standard on any of these measurements, so this is just a reminder to do your homework before you buy a set of shaft pulls.

Ok, now I don’t feel crazy. All I know is that the shaft goes noticeably deeper in to the hosel of the TS3 than my Srixon Z745 heads. 

[ode1]

1 hour ago, sm_watts said:

It's a combination of both: bore depth is 1.355", which is as deep as anything I've ever worked on.  Typical is 1.125" or even 1.250".  It doesn't seem like much, but when you combine the short BBTG (again, typical with irons I've worked on is more like 1.250") with another 1/4" deeper bore depth, it adds up to needing about an inch longer shaft than many other sets out there.  Keep in mind, there is no industry standard on any of these measurements, so this is just a reminder to do your homework before you buy a set of shaft pulls.

An inch longer🤔. That is fuzzy math, 3/4" to 1.25" bbgm is a difference of 1/2".  Bore depth impacts how much tip prep there is, but that can easily be solved with a longer ferrule.  Bore depth has nothing to do with finished playing length.  If we are addressing shaft flex/cpm,s I'll yield to Howard, Stuart, CWebb, etc. as to the real difference between a .75 vs. 1.25" BBGM measurement impact on flex.  

[taki27]

Shouldn’t a 5 iron shaft inserted into a 6 iron with a .75 bbgm play almost the same as a 6 iron shaft in a 6 iron with a 1.25 bbgm ?

[Popeye64]

Ok.. so I CPM'd the PW and 7i of my built and gripped TS3 and KE4 Max. Both carry the RT 105 S flex. Tip trimmed identically. The KE4 Max are just a touch heavier in the swing weight. But it's maybe a half point at most. 

The TS3 clubs are measuring nearly a full flex stiffer. 

KE4 Max PW is 303. 7i is 294. TS3 PW is 317. 7i is 307. 

It's no wonder I'm struggling with them. It's too much shaft. Also it's probably why I loved the 7i head when I had a 105 R+ shaft in it. It was playing at my desired flex. I believe I CPM'd that club at 297 if I remember. 

I'm going to have to rebuild the TS3 and try to CPM match them to the KE4. Damn it. 

[bekgolf]

7 minutes ago, Popeye64 said:

Ok.. so I CPM'd the PW and 7i of my built and gripped TS3 and KE4 Max. Both carry the RT 105 S flex. Tip trimmed identically. The KE4 Max are just a touch heavier in the swing weight. But it's maybe a half point at most. 

The TS3 clubs are measuring nearly a full flex stiffer. 

KE4 Max PW is 303. 7i is 294. TS3 PW is 317. 7i is 307. 

It's no wonder I'm struggling with them. It's too much shaft. Also it's probably why I loved the 7i head when I had a 105 R+ shaft in it. It was playing at my desired flex. I believe I CPM'd that club at 297 if I remember. 

I'm going to have to rebuild the TS3 and try to CPM match them to the KE4. Damn it. 

 

At least you solved the mystery!

[Popeye64]

1 minute ago, bekgolf said:

 

At least you solved the mystery!

It totally makes sense why I kept losing them to the right. I wasn't getting the club head through the hitting zone. 

 

[sm_watts]

I got to play 18 this morning with the new TS3's.  A few disclaimers: it was my first round of the year, and the shafts were a complete mess as noted previously, soft-stepped twice old DG SL's that I didn't bother with a single tip weight.  First swings on the range were not good, taking big divots and ball not going anywhere.  When the swing got better, these things felt great.  Distance control was spot on with no flyers, center strikes felt like high-end forged clubs, and even the occasional toe strikes (my featured miss) didn't lose too much distance.  Most iron shots ended up fading, but again, first round of the year and iffy shafts make it hard to say exactly what was the cause there.  All in all I was quite pleased with how it went, and I'm really looking forward to the correct shafts getting here so I can build up this set properly.

[ChaosTheory]

3 hours ago, Popeye64 said:

It's no wonder I'm struggling with them.

 

I wondered if that was the case.

[ChaosTheory]

Assuming the TS3 has the universal bore, it will be deeper because of it.  The first time I assembled one of the Maltby heads that had that bore, I was going crazy trying to get the parallel shaft down to the bottom of it. (I use a depth gauge to check my ferrule setting to make sure it's pretty close.)  Then it hit me that the bore narrows down and my depth reading was useless for a parallel tip.

 

So even the BBGM will be vary depending on if you use taper or parallel.

[Popeye64]

39 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

 

I wondered if that was the case.

The Rapid Tapers are the worst shaft if you get the flex too strong. 

[Spinozist]

some in-hand pics...

[sm_watts]

8 hours ago, ode said:

An inch longer🤔. That is fuzzy math, 3/4" to 1.25" bbgm is a difference of 1/2".  Bore depth impacts how much tip prep there is, but that can easily be solved with a longer ferrule.  Bore depth has nothing to do with finished playing length.  If we are addressing shaft flex/cpm,s I'll yield to Howard, Stuart, CWebb, etc. as to the real difference between a .75 vs. 1.25" BBGM measurement impact on flex.  

I'm PE teacher, not a math teacher 🙂

 

All I know is that it took an extra inch to make these standard length.

[NRJyzr]

8 hours ago, ode said:

An inch longer🤔. That is fuzzy math, 3/4" to 1.25" bbgm is a difference of 1/2".  Bore depth impacts how much tip prep there is, but that can easily be solved with a longer ferrule.  Bore depth has nothing to do with finished playing length.  If we are addressing shaft flex/cpm,s I'll yield to Howard, Stuart, CWebb, etc. as to the real difference between a .75 vs. 1.25" BBGM measurement impact on flex.  

 

I can't offer much on actual cpm effects, but the short version of what's going on...

 

The butt section of any shaft is the stiffest part of the shaft.  The more of the butt section in play, the stiffer it will play.  And, the less butt section remaining, the softer the shaft will play.

 

Thus, an shorter BBGM means more butt section in play, shaft plays stiffer.

 

The actual effect on the frequency of any shaft will depend on the profile of that shaft.  Though, for shorter differences, the difference between shafts will likely be marginal.

 

[NRJyzr]

Dumb question, since they've only just appeared, but has anyone done a quick read of BBGM for the TS4?

 

[SE Gamer]

2 hours ago, Spinozist said:

some in-hand pics...

 

The gloves make it look like you're handling some obscure, rare, and valuable relic 🙂. 

They do look great though. Can't wait to pick up my IM 7i this week.

[Cwebb]

8 hours ago, taki27 said:

Shouldn’t a 5 iron shaft inserted into a 6 iron with a .75 bbgm play almost the same as a 6 iron shaft in a 6 iron with a 1.25 bbgm ?

 

Yeah, that's how I view it in general.  A Bottom of Bore to Ground Measurement that is 1/2" shorter, will make the same shaft play as if it is hard stepped......and vice versa a 1/2" longer BBGM will make that shaft play as if it's soft stepped

[Bryceslu]

5 hours ago, Spinozist said:

some in-hand pics...

Those are some incredible looking club heads!

 

they could easily come from the big manufacturers…in fact I’d say they are probably jealous. 
 

Now I’ve gotta find my way to ohio this summer and check them all out. 

[Tupperwolf]

Those TS4 look SO NICE!

[54CW]

Those TS4 look incredible. My wallet is grateful the customizer is down right now. 

[Colej]

TS1-IM 

 

comparison pic is the TS2 8 and TS1-IM 8

[mstuewe]

so how crazy would it be to build a combo set?  The loft and offset progressions seem to line up pretty well and I think it would help with some club gapping issues I have.

 

TS3 - 4 and 5 iron

TS1 IM - 6 and 7 Iron

TS4 - 8 and 9 iron

Vokey SM9 - 46, 50, 54, 60

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, mstuewe said:

so how crazy would it be to build a combo set?  The loft and offset progressions seem to line up pretty well and I think it would help with some club gapping issues I have.

 

TS3 - 4 and 5 iron

TS1 IM - 6 and 7 Iron

TS4 - 8 and 9 iron

Vokey SM9 - 46, 50, 54, 60

 

My opinion, you should switch the TS3 and TS1 IM.  The hollow clubheads are better suited for long irons, with the TS3 being a better transition to the blade TS4.